Darkhold- Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont understand the big deal. as biochem you save a tonne of money. The Rakata IS strictly better: Its reusable. I don't know about you but i like saving money on Medpaks due to them being reusable... Except no one here is talking about medpacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meleoffs Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont understand the big deal. as biochem you save a tonne of money. The Rakata IS strictly better: Its reusable. I don't know about you but i like saving money on Medpaks due to them being reusable... Reusable or not it'll be worse than the exotech ones (I have an exotech attack adrenal recipe in my inventory right now) and min maxers will NOT save money. They will use the exotech over the rakata, and lose all benefit to being biochem. IF and ONLY IF rakata was to be EQUAL with exotech will this nerf make ANY sense at all. Take WoW's alchemist for example. They got all the top flasks, but an added hour on top of the durations. Meaning they used the same as the top and saved money over time as they had to use half as many TOP GRADE flasks. Now take SWTOR's biochem. They lose any and ALL benefit because they don't get top grade, or a boost to the top grade. This next patch my guild will have access to most if not all exotech biochem recipes, however the people that switched to biochem now lost the money spent leveling it as the bonuses it gave are now trivial, and no longer best in whatever. If rakata = exotech then the issue would be solved completely, and biochem is now in line with what is available without it. But again Rakata = energized? That exacerbates the issue of crew skill balance, putting absolutely no reason to level it outside of a sub optimal reusable stim. I'd trade reusable for optimal any day, and if you didn't you don't even deserve to be in nightmare mode raids anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbaby Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Personally, I will make stacks of Exotech stims and other stuff and pick FotM after next patch releases to make crafted gear with augments and prefixes since they will buff the crit chances on gear. I am sure it will not require a skill to wear it. Leveling a new skill takes one day and some 300k if you are lazy. Do ops, get mats and just continuously re-roll skills to get the best this game can give. On the side note, I hope they will nerf the requirements for exotech stims or increase the chance of epic drops from missions otherwise expect to pay at least 100k for each stim. Edited February 3, 2012 by maxbaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhold- Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Reusable or not it'll be worse than the exotech ones (I have an exotech attack adrenal recipe in my inventory right now) and min maxers will NOT save money. They will use the exotech over the rakata, and lose all benefit to being biochem. IF and ONLY IF rakata was to be EQUAL with exotech will this nerf make ANY sense at all. I agree. Edited February 3, 2012 by Darkhold- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA_Cowboy Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You're outraged? Seriously??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastion Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I just don't get how some people think. Do you seriously no see the problem with hitting 400 in a crafting skill giving you easy access to something better than, or even on par, with something accessible elsewhere? BoP perks should be utility items that aren't absolutely necessary. Right now Biochem is necessary. There is nothing you can get from other crafts that you can't get better versions of elsewhere while Biochem gives you easy access to unlimited consumables cheaply that are unavailable unless you are 400 Biochem. It needs to change. They need to be nice to have but still be outdone by a BoE craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhold- Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I just don't get how some people think. Do you seriously no see the problem with hitting 400 in a crafting skill giving you easy access to something better than, or even on par, with something accessible elsewhere? I can't tell if this is a serious statement. What exactly do you think crafting skills are supposed to provide? Pointless garbage? Edited February 3, 2012 by Darkhold- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I just don't get how some people think. Do you seriously no see the problem with hitting 400 in a crafting skill giving you easy access to something better than, or even on par, with something accessible elsewhere? BoP perks should be utility items that aren't absolutely necessary. Right now Biochem is necessary. There is nothing you can get from other crafts that you can't get better versions of elsewhere while Biochem gives you easy access to unlimited consumables cheaply that are unavailable unless you are 400 Biochem. It needs to change. They need to be nice to have but still be outdone by a BoE craft. Rakata gear with augment slots? Fully mod lightsabres with augment slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylverfall Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 They are trying to push people away. It's getting very obvious. They are nerfing without regard to impact. It's one thing to nerf damage because it's high in pvp, it's another to do so and not realize that it is also crippling in pvp. The same goes for the Stims...........What is the point in having biochem after this nerf went? The implants are ridiculously cheap, medpac's are hardly needed in nightmare/hard modes UNLESS your group REALLY REALLY sucks and even when you do need them, you can buy them for cheap. I have made characters on a few servers and the GTN's all have an abundance of them. It really seems they are balancing strictly around PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobaffet Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 i though rakata would be on par with exotech.. how exactly are they less good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevNYC Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 People who are outraged over this apparently weren't aware of how Biochem works at every other stage of progression. It is: Green: better than vendor Blue: better than green Purple: same as green, but reusable, and only usable by Biochem The Rakata items "broke" this pattern by being better than the blues, which is a large part of why people felt compelled to be Biochem. The changes bring Biochem back in line with its previous progression, where purple reusables are worth it because they save time and money, but the tradeable consumables offer the best effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibmachine Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I just don't get how some people think. Do you seriously no see the problem with hitting 400 in a crafting skill giving you easy access to something better than, or even on par, with something accessible elsewhere? Rofl ok, so apparently you don't see the problem with an item that's unique to the profession and going by that logic should provide some perk, is actually worse than the item the same profession can craft at lvl 48? It's reusable, ok, but how does it remotely make any sense that an epic lvl 50 item provides less benefits than lvl 48 blue and yet, it's restricted only for that profession. What does it say about devs' logic when synth can craft items which provide a whooping 50+ stat boost over other items AND have an augment slot? That thread wouldn't even exist if the nerf only included just taking away all that "OMG SO OP" 8 stat boost but no, they had to go one step further and actually make the epic, unique consumable almost obsolete seeing how easy it is to get money and buy yourself a couple stacks of exotech. On a sidenote, I wonder what will be the fotm prof in 1.1.3 when they realize that it's synth that has massive advantage over others and instead of toning it down, they swing the bat with relentless fury. Edited February 3, 2012 by gibmachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevNYC Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Rofl ok, so apparently you don't see the problem with an item that's unique to the profession and going by that logic should provide some perk, is actually worse than the item the same profession can craft at lvl 48? It's reusable, ok, but how does it remotely make any sense that an epic lvl 50 item provides less benefits than lvl 48 blue and yet, it's restricted only for that profession. Because that's how it works for every single level before then. It means that there's a constant demand for the "best" items, instead of demand tapering off because everyone picks the tradeskill that allows them to make the reusable ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayzen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Min maxing players seeking Individual Class power will ALWAYS trump monetary investment or return Biochem no longer provides individual class power, so all players seeking that, will move to other professions. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2495819#post2495819 Read my post for more thoughts. Edited February 3, 2012 by Drayzen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizazi Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I thought Rakata was tier 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayzen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I dont understand the big deal. as biochem you save a tonne of money. The Rakata IS strictly better: Its reusable. I don't know about you but i like saving money on Medpaks due to them being reusable... And then you are a casual player. The power gamer now realizes that their Class Skill provides no additional STAT value bonuses, so they would rather go Synth or Artifice for Augment slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grucho Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Put Rakata and Exotech on par and everyone will be happy. Honestly if Rakata will be equal to green quality I will just drop biochem even though I rolled it few days ago. Luckly money is not a problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevNYC Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 And then you are a casual player. The power gamer now realizes that their Class Skill provides no additional STAT value bonuses, so they would rather go Synth or Artifice for Augment slots. They can fix that by giving Biochem BOP implants. Those can have augment slots, and you get two of them, so it matches the extra stats you get from Synth or Artifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibmachine Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Because that's how it works for every single level before then. It means that there's a constant demand for the "best" items, instead of demand tapering off because everyone picks the tradeskill that allows them to make the reusable ones. Then why name it Rakata which has clear implication that it provides best bonus? Also, if that's how it works, why Rakata gear crafted by synthweavers has such a massive advantage and yet, stims with a grand total 8 stat difference had to be nerfed literally to the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayzen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 They can fix that by giving Biochem BOP implants. Those can have augment slots, and you get two of them, so it matches the extra stats you get from Synth or Artifice. They can FIX that. It means, previous to 1.1.2 they need to fix it, which I absolutely GUARANTEE they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevNYC Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Then why name it Rakata which has clear implication that it provides best bonus? Also, if that's how it works, why Rakata gear crafted by synthweavers has such a massive advantage and yet, stims with a grand total 8 stat difference had to be nerfed literally to the ground? I have no idea why they used that naming scheme. As I suggested earlier, the Rakata items for Biochems should never have been stims/medpacks, they should have been implants. The reusables should have been "Advanced Energized" or "Advanced Exotech" or whatever the correct name would be to match the earlier progression. They can FIX that. It means, previous to 1.1.2 they need to fix it, which I absolutely GUARANTEE they won't. Okay? Why is anyone posting at all? You don't think they will read this thread and fix the oversight in terms of Biochem lagging behind the non-consumable professions, but you somehow do think they will read this thread and revert the changes entirely? "Hey guys it's pointless to leave feedback because they just ignore it but here's my treatise on all the stuff they need to change anyway because I just like typing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizazi Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) This just is not true! Please look at your Biochem! Current BioChem Stats. Green: Hyper-Battle Skill Stim +104 Cunning +43 Power Blue: Prototype Hyper-Battle Skill Stim +104 Cunning +43 Power This effect persist through defeat. Purple: Reusable Hyper-Battle Skill Stim +104 Cunning +43 Power This Stim is infinite, but does not persist through defeat. Purple: Rakata Skill Stim +136 Cunning +56 Power This effect persists through defeat and is infinite use. Blue: Exotech Skill Stim +128 Cunning + 52 Power This effect persists through defeat. Blue: Energized Skill Stim+112 Cunning +46 Power This persists through defeat. Bioware planned changes make no sense. People who are outraged over this apparently weren't aware of how Biochem works at every other stage of progression. It is: Green: better than vendor Blue: better than green Purple: same as green, but reusable, and only usable by Biochem The Rakata items "broke" this pattern by being better than the blues, which is a large part of why people felt compelled to be Biochem. The changes bring Biochem back in line with its previous progression, where purple reusables are worth it because they save time and money, but the tradeable consumables offer the best effects. Edited February 4, 2012 by jizazi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I have no idea why they used that naming scheme. As I suggested earlier, the Rakata items for Biochems should never have been stims/medpacks, they should have been implants. The reusables should have been "Advanced Energized" or "Advanced Exotech" or whatever the correct name would be to match the earlier progression. Okay? Why is anyone posting at all? You don't think they will read this thread and fix the oversight in terms of Biochem lagging behind the non-consumable professions, but you somehow do think they will read this thread and revert the changes entirely? "Hey guys it's pointless to leave feedback because they just ignore it but here's my treatise on all the stuff they need to change anyway because I just like typing" I actually agree that giving rakata implants would be a fix. The problem is that bioware is not showing a track record of fixes. They show a track record of nerf. Slicing was nerfed 4 times starting in beta and continuing on through launch. Biochem has now been nerfed twice. Cybertech has been nerfed. Have you seen any actual fixes to crafting? I guess you could say that nerfing is fixing but it wont be in the communities eyes. The biggest problem is the community itself. The grass is always greener on the otherside. The community always wants what they dont have. That includes class nerfs, pvp nerfs, and crafting nerfs. Some people will actually ask for a buff. The problem is that dev teams will always nerf others instead of buff the problem. In some cases, a nerf is what is needed. In this case, it wasnt necessary. Pretty soon we will have extractable mods when the endgame gear is changed. That means that crafters will make the best base gear. Modable gear with augments slots will be BIS base. So that will make biochem obsolete and not on par with any other craft out there. What does that mean? Will they now nerf synth and arms? Will the people that are synth and arms be here just like the biochems are now? Do we get to tell you all that you are QQing too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cainhawk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Its really not that big of a deal. I've been Biochem since day one because it was clearly the most useful choice seeing as crafted gear in any game will never be better than the highest tier gear except maybe the first few months of an expansion and pvp being the only gear I personally would care about. Its likely that the rakata will end up equal to exotech but reusable as 8 of a stat is so trivial to make it an issue with people. Adrenal being reusable is alot bigger of an advantage as it costs alot more to use those every cd than a few stim buffs for a raid. Rakata implants would be nice if they were trying to balance all professions although i still feel lucky to have my free 24/7 (extra relic) adrenal buffs, and medpacs. If they don't add any other perk it really makes the only advantage to the profession saving yourself credits where you could just take another profitable profession, get its perks and use the money you make on stims and adrenals. Its overall just poorly planned im not sure how no one caught it would be overpowered as it is large amounts of permanent extra stats, it might have well just been this games first aid and added another profession in its place. I will likely stick with Biochem since it does what I want, gives me extra stats in warzones at no cost or effort on my part. Its really more of a fix than a nerf it just needs to be a balanced fix and not make the skill useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexster Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People are saying that this change will make synth/mech OP. I have yet to see them say that these new orange schematics will be BOP. As such, it appears that orange gear with aug slots will become the new norm for everyone. They want them to be tradable is what they are claiming by saying they want to move to a more player driven economy. While this is good, biochem/cybertechs are overlooking the value their rakata meds/stims/grenades still hold at that point. Those items are still infinite in use, and though while they may now be second best in terms of effect, they will always be present for use without restocking, and they will save tons in the course of the games lifetime. On the other hand, once orange augmented gear is common and everyone has it, along with the ability to remove raid parts to patch up any gear to raid quality, the current perk of synth/mech etc(the rakata belt/bracers being able to have an aug slot over the non crafted version) will cease to exist. When this happens, do you not see that the cybertech/biochem consumables are back to being the only useful perk? Do you plan to add new 'perks' to the other crafts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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