Evuke Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just gotta say a massive lol at failware for nerfing the **** out of one of the only ac's (marauders would be the other) that people don't complain about on here, and leaving tracer spammers, and invincible bubble boys untouched. You are really, really terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edex Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I now give this game 6 months till free to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Infernus Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm not sure how you've interpreted any of the noted changes to Assassin/Shadow as a nerf. Looks like mostly buffs to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure how you've interpreted any of the noted changes to Assassin/Shadow as a nerf. Looks like mostly buffs to me. Nerfed every hybrid build that went into madness. Nerfed every build that used dark charge and induction. Edited February 2, 2012 by Nocorras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure how you've interpreted any of the noted changes to Assassin/Shadow as a nerf. Looks like mostly buffs to me. That's because it is... now granted the 100 force thing should be changed to draining all remaining force, but beyond that? Bug fixes, buffs, and a couple of minor at worst nerfs. Nerfed every hybrid build that went into madness. Nerfed every build that used dark charge and induction. Everything involving madness looked like a buff to me. Edited February 2, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTyrantXerxis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Please quit, and spare us your teenager tantrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) That's because it is... now granted the 100 force thing should be changed to draining all remaining force, but beyond that? Bug fixes, buffs, and a couple of minor at worst nerfs. Everything involving madness looked like a buff to me. You don't seem to understand. They are forcing you to lightning charge as madness now for Raze, people were using dark charge for armor. You can only get raze procs when you have lightning discharged onto someone. They are trying to make hybrid specs non-viable and started with the weakest of the bunch. Edited February 2, 2012 by Nocorras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trushott Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nerfed every hybrid build that went into madness. Nerfed every build that used dark charge and induction. as they should have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Infernus Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You don't seem to understand. They are forcing you to lightning charge as madness now for Raze, people were using dark charge for armor. You can only get raze procs when you have lightning discharged onto someone. They are trying to make hybrid specs non-viable and started with the weakest of the bunch. You mean the one that gets you the most medals for doing nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 as they should have been Yep but there are plenty of other hybrids on other classes that are far more powerful. They should have nerfed all the hybrid stuff in one patch, who knows when they will work on the stupid stuff powertechs can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heinywb Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) a lot of shadows (non hybrids just as much as hybrids) were using combat technique for the armor bump so they could stay alive long enough to kill an enemy since there burst is pathetic rather than shadow technique. now in order to maintain the craptastic burst they have, they must be in shadow technique, which means a loss of 150% armor rating. So its a fairly hefty nerf to assassin/shadow survivability in pvp....esp since they have no bubble or % reduction to incoming dmg cd and there stun is on a 60 sec cd. Edited February 2, 2012 by heinywb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You mean the one that gets you the most medals for doing nothing? It's easy to get medals with a taunt class anyway, you basically have no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) i don't think they really play their own game as hard as we do the devs should have a team of die hard gamer playtester nerds who theorycraft and play mmo's all day to get their rocks off so that they can balance the game better. then maybe the disconnect between devs and their customers won't be so glaringly obvious Edited February 2, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 To clarify for those who think they didn't nerf (because you probably don't play the class): This is nerfing the tank and ranged DPS hybrid, forcing the ranged DPS to use the DPS stance and not the tank stance. Because they'll be in the DPS stance, they can't cast Guard on someone and easily get the 3 medals. If they do, they will not be able to quickly switch to the DPS stance because the cost is now 100 energy. Honestly, as a Deception spec guy (yes, I tried Madness and didn't like it - I get comparable numbers in Deception anyways), I use Guard until I get the "10k Protection" medal and then switch to Surging Charge anyways. My guess is this Hybrid will still be pretty viable, and you'll see people do likewise - they'll get their 3 Protection medals, stealth out of combat, change to Lightning charge, and stealth back into combat. Not a HUGE nerf or change when it comes down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is much more a rebalance and restricting your options than a nerf. But yeah, I agree it sucks not being able to get the best of both of the worlds you were hybriding into. Now, I understand why they do this (I still disagree but whatever), what I don't understand is why they did it only to the shadows/assassins. Maybe because we had the most possible hybrid builds and the most hybrid players but our hybrid builds aren't the most broken out there (even if we are not using the specs as they intended). My bet is it is going to get ugly on some other classes on the next few patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heinywb Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 To clarify for those who think they didn't nerf (because you probably don't play the class): This is nerfing the tank and ranged DPS hybrid, forcing the ranged DPS to use the DPS stance and not the tank stance. Because they'll be in the DPS stance, they can't cast Guard on someone and easily get the 3 medals. If they do, they will not be able to quickly switch to the DPS stance because the cost is now 100 energy. Honestly, as a Deception spec guy (yes, I tried Madness and didn't like it - I get comparable numbers in Deception anyways), I use Guard until I get the "10k Protection" medal and then switch to Surging Charge anyways. My guess is this Hybrid will still be pretty viable, and you'll see people do likewise - they'll get their 3 Protection medals, stealth out of combat, change to Lightning charge, and stealth back into combat. Not a HUGE nerf or change when it comes down to it. I disagree. You lost a lot of dmg, dmg buffs to your self when in tank stance. it was already 5% behind just due to the stance. But why single out one class like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heinywb Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is much more a rebalance and restricting your options than a nerf. But yeah, I agree it sucks not being able to get the best of both of the worlds you were hybriding into. Now, I understand why they do this (I still disagree but whatever), what I don't understand is why they did it only to the shadows/assassins. Maybe because we had the most possible hybrid builds and the most hybrid players but our hybrid builds aren't the most broken out there (even if we are not using the specs as they intended). My bet is it is going to get ugly on some other classes on the next few patches. If you google search swtor hybrid builds, sentinels seem to have the market share on hybrid builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsummerisle Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 l2 adapt, as the game progesses my hybrid tank/dps build has been shut out of the game by gear mixed with heals. Pretty much BioWare seen you're class wasn't getting effected like others and toned it down. Forcing you to play a real spec, instead of hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My bet is it is going to get ugly on some other classes on the next few patches. If they do what they did to assassins to every class that hybrids then yeah it probably is. The forum whining will be immense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I disagree. You lost a lot of dmg, dmg buffs to your self when in tank stance. it was already 5% behind just due to the stance. But why single out one class like this. Well, they singled out the Ops/Scoundrels last time, and they raged all over the forums about "why us?" too... But I agree. I thought this would be the least likely class to get changed. Oh well. Maybe we'll see more people return to the 2/31/8 chain shock build, and they'll realize is just as viable (in PvP) if they play a melee class correctly. C'mon. Deception spec does have some excellent burst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well, they singled out the Ops/Scoundrels last time, and they raged all over the forums about "why us?" too... But I agree. I thought this would be the least likely class to get changed. Oh well. Maybe we'll see more people return to the 2/31/8 chain shock build, and they'll realize is just as viable (in PvP) if they play a melee class correctly. C'mon. Deception spec does have some excellent burst... They singled out a specific spec on this class and not the whole hybrid business (what healers don't go hybrid for example). And it was a nerf (well for PvE where they did not need it at least) not a rebalancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Nerfing swapping to Combat Techniques is pretty LOL, especially since it already costs 50 Force to swap between techniques. For a Knight to swap it's free, for a Vanguard to swap it's free but has a 1.5sec cast. Being able to swap to Combat Techniques was the saving grace of playing Infiltration, now it's just.. worse. I guess since they nerfed Operatives they felt the need to screw with the other stealth class. I doubt many people will play Infiltration, it already has no survivability. 3/4s of the shadows I see anyway are already 23/0/18. The damage is already the worst out of any melee class, might as well just swap to the tank specs. Edited February 2, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinaltapp Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just dont see why they felt it necessary to make these changes. Was it really a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If you google search swtor hybrid builds, sentinels seem to have the market share on hybrid builds Did not know that but that does not change the fact that our techniques are widely used out of their respective spec while theirs are not (for all I know of). Google is a poor measurement of the reality. Before, 1.1.1 out of all the shadows using combat technique (or dark charge for sins), you had at most 10% of them using a full kinetic/darkness build for PvP. On the other hand, maybe 5% of the balance/madness specced used their technique too. I understand how they feel it is a problem. My bet is that guardians/juggs tank bombers won't be possible too next month for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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