We are the laughing stock of PvP

[RevengeLobster]

The biggest problem with marauders is not their dps or their survivability, but it is that Marauders have no Anti-CC, no CC, no Push/Pulls, rage abilities are useless as the resource takes too long to use, and only one approach attack to get into melee is on a 15 second cooldown. Now some of these do not sound bad, but they all lead to one big flaw for marauders in pvp:

Marauders get shutdown too easily in PVP.

 

This shutdown is not from death but from the incredible amounts of CC in the game. Over 75% of the time when I initiate my force charge, as soon as I land and start my complicated attack patterns I am immediately knocked back (most of the time off a ledge on hutt ball) a pretty absurd distance and slowed. So while I could be doing damage to my target, instead I am slowly walking back up to them while getting shot with everything the enemy has.

 

To top it off when I get close enough to attack again (Force charge may be 15 seconds but in a fight that is a LONG time) I am immediately knocked back again or stunned. Now most people would say to use our 4 second stealth to get back to them. Honestly that does not help much as we can just be CC'd again (resolve is pretty useless) and blowing a 45second CD that is one of our best escape mechanics is a pretty bad idea IMO.

 

Another problem is that one of our best and universal mechanics takes way too long in pvp to actually work. This mechanic being Rage. When you die you lose all stacks and it basically means you will rarely get any of them off. The resource system was really only made for pve and takes away the one thing that we bring to the table other than dps.

 

My proposal to fix this?

Give sith warriors another approaching attack on a higher CD to contend with all the push-backs and pulls going around. Or, better yet, give us a much needed utility and give us the ability to force pull an enemy to use much like grapple. As it stands now Marauders are the only class that do not have a push/pull mechanic and it would make the class a lot more dynamic in pvp to finally have an ability every other class gets. We definitely need the utility.

 

Another good thing to do is to increase the range on some of Marauders abilities such as Obliterate and Deadly throw. This would let us get a small amount of dps in while slogging towards the enemy. I would also say that doubling rage stacks in pvp would be a great way to get the rage mechanic going. This would give us the ability to use our class utility at a decent pace in PVP.

 

My last proposition would be to give Marauders a second ability to end a root, stun, or slow on themselves other than the basic ability everyone gets. Since we are melee combatants it is very important that we have the tools to get into melee combat and this would be a great addition. The best way to implement this in my eyes would be to attach it to the new and usable PVP rage mechanic. Say while a rage such as predation is active you are immune to snares and slows.

 

I think these tools would keep us from being seen as laughing stocks to other classes in PVP ( not that we are, when they cant knock us back or keep us rooted we can tear through them )and improve our classes livability substantially. I am curious to hear what you all think on this. Thoughts comments and constructive criticism is appreciated.

[PriceNicholas]

As a Marauder, what do you offer besides DPS?

 

Nothing.

 

Anyone can DPS and most everyone else can Heal or Tank or Push or Pull or knockback. You cannot do any, so anyone targeting you first is fairly noob.

 

With as much as you guys spout off on the WoW similarities, did you forget about how crappy a DW Warrior was in PvP?!

 

What does a class meant solely for DPS offer besides DPS?

Is that a real question, i mean i've read some pretty dumb posts but you must be trolling or don't understand what marauders are meant for.

Besides that as annihilation I usually have 100k heals during a WZ. Is that something besides DPS? What about the 80% speed increase we can give to the team. Or the aoe fear we have that when used right can mean placing a bomb on a door, capping a turret or scoring in huttball.

We obviously don't offer anything though besides tearing apart any player we target.....

And if that isn't enough for a class meant solely for DPS then i don't know what to say.

[RevengeLobster]

What does a class meant solely for DPS offer besides DPS?

Is that a real question, i mean i've read some pretty dumb posts but you must be trolling or don't understand what marauders are meant for.

Besides that as annihilation I usually have 100k heals during a WZ. Is that something besides DPS? What about the 80% speed increase we can give to the team. Or the aoe fear we have that when used right can mean placing a bomb on a door, capping a turret or scoring in huttball.

We obviously don't offer anything though besides tearing apart any player we target.....

And if that isn't enough for a class meant solely for DPS then i don't know what to say.

 

You forgot obfuscate. I cannot really say the 80% increase is a good example though since rage rarely happens in pvp. However in PVE we can do said movement speed increase that also gives 10% DR to the entire party and +15% damage and healing to the entire party.

[PriceNicholas]

Yeah i was leaving some back ups just in case my point didn't get through

[Jagerinho]

It's a challenge to play, but when 'mastered' its a spectacular class to play - probably one of the best PvP classes, and I am not trolling. Edited February 8, 2012 by Jagerinho

[Cirayne]

I'm torn. I love the concept of a Marauder so much that I want to play one. But when I'm playing against a lot of them, i get turned off.

 

However, there's always a couple every night that just tears through my entire team and renews my lust to play one.

 

Although mine is only 22 and somewhat frustrating to play in pvp, it's probably the most fun I've had on any class so far.

[AGoldCrayon]

I'm completely ok with people underestimating me. Let the class be the laughing stock of pvp, it doesn't change that the non mouth breathers can bring out the full potential of the class. Edited February 8, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[Betraymodex]

I really disagree with this thread, marauders are truely brilliant, they are strong, they have a truckload of awesome cooldowns and they pack a huge punch! Personally I play Annihilation, i find the spec versitile, extremely strong dps wise and as for defense, the small heals that tick over from dot crits, the 100% dmg reduction from camo and the increased speed on predation make a brilliant pvp build.

 

As for carnage I think the spec is viable in pvp, it has extremely nice dmg, but for some reason that I can't really put my finger on it feels weaker in PvP, defensively that is, I feel like a glass cannon. That being said, if you run with a healer you are going to do some serious dmg

[PriceNicholas]

Marauder's if used be a skilled player are probably the most damaging class to a team. We can tear through healers between our charge, interrupt and force choke. The thing about marauders though is unlike range if you have no skill you are most likely completely useless to your team.

[Apocalypse-]

It's a challenge to play, but when 'mastered' its a spectacular class to play - probably one of the best PvP classes, and I am not trolling.

 

This. This 1000x. We're the only DPS class that can't be shut out. Yes, you've got knockbacks, which take everyone out of the fight, but we're not interruptable, we're extremely durable, we've got amazing damage output, we've got the best objective-orientated AND the best offensive-orientated group buffs in game, we've got a larger stable of interrupts than anyone, we're not susceptible to a bad RNG string....

 

In fact, the only class that can do an adequate job of shutting down a Sentinel/Marauder is a Sentinel/Marauder. Think about that.

[RevengeLobster]

This. This 1000x. We're the only DPS class that can't be shut out. Yes, you've got knockbacks, which take everyone out of the fight, but we're not interruptable, we're extremely durable, we've got amazing damage output, we've got the best objective-orientated AND the best offensive-orientated group buffs in game, we've got a larger stable of interrupts than anyone, we're not susceptible to a bad RNG string....

 

In fact, the only class that can do an adequate job of shutting down a Sentinel/Marauder is a Sentinel/Marauder. Think about that.

 

I'll have to disagree with you completely on Marauders not being shut out. In fact we are the only class that can be completely shut out. One knockback after you charge and you are already playing catch upagainst your target. We get zoned incredibly easy due to being almost exclusively melee damage.

 

The only thing I am reading on here is "IF you know how to play Marauders you are one of the best PVP classes" and "Only people that can't play marauders are bad at pvp" without any actual facts or reasons to back it up. It sounds moderately like class fanaticism to me and that's ok to a degree. By no means am I the best marauder but anytime I queue for pvp I am usually in the top 5 (mostly top 3) in the room. We aren't seriously UP or a terrible PVP class but to say we have no problems and we are the best at pvp is a pretty blind perspective.

 

-edit- Note that the second paragraph isn't a direct message to you Apocalypse. Just in case there would be confusion on who said what.

Edited February 8, 2012 by RevengeLobster

[Apocalypse-]

I'll have to disagree with you completely on Marauders not being shut out. In fact we are the only class that can be completely shut out. One knockback after you charge and you are already playing catch upagainst your target. We get zoned incredibly easy due to being almost exclusively melee damage.

Right... because smugglers and shadows don't have it far worse if they're knocked back. Beyond that, the frequency of being knocked back when you've got >6 seconds left on Charge should be minimal. If you're charging a lone target that's in a position to remove you from a fight with a simple knockback, you're doing it wrong. We can't be interrupted, we can't be LOS to stop our damage, you can't run away from us. The ONLY way to shut out a Marauder is to be a Maruader and blind them. Even then, you've got 6 Seconds.

 

Counter a Commando? Interrupt them. Counter a Sage? Interrupt them. Counter a Shadow? Knock back and slow them, also squishy as hell. Counter a Scoundrel? Knock them back or if their burst is already spent, /laugh. Counter a Guardian? Just shoot them, if they're DPS, they're squishy. Counter a Gunslinger? LOS. Counter a vanguard? Outlast the burst. Counter a Sentinel? Good luck.

 

You can take a DPS of any of the other 7 ACs out of the fight for a lot longer and a lot more effectively than you can a Sentinel/Marauder.

 

The only thing I am reading on here is "IF you know how to play Marauders you are one of the best PVP classes" and "Only people that can't play marauders are bad at pvp" without any actual facts or reasons to back it up. It sounds moderately like class fanaticism to me and that's ok to a degree. By no means am I the best marauder but anytime I queue for pvp I am usually in the top 5 (mostly top 3) in the room. We aren't seriously UP or a terrible PVP class but to say we have no problems and we are the best at pvp is a pretty blind perspective.

 

-edit- Note that the second paragraph isn't a direct message to you Apocalypse. Just in case there would be confusion on who said what.

Even if it's not at me, I'll respond to it. The only class that is superior to a Sentinel/Marauder at PvP is a lucky Vanguard/Powertech. I say lucky because they rely on reset chances that are set % values that can't be improved. If they're lucky, they can do a lot. If not, they're going to be dry on ammo quickly. If they have average luck, they're not better than us.

 

People always say "this game isn't about how much you can do solo". Way I look at it, if I know that I can typically go into a 1v3 and kill 2 before escaping, with 2 teammates I should be able to wipe those 3. More often than not, that's exactly what happens.

 

Every class has problems atm, the thing that makes sentinels the best class is the majority of our problems aren't noticeable at a high level of play, compared to other classes being limited by their issues.

[Trujan]

 

1. We are generally targeted first and ganked upon (being considered an easy kill)

 

You are focused first, because otherwise you kill us.

However, i really think you should reroll, preferably to anything other than a marauder, (hopes the entire imp. population falls for my cunning plan!)

[Khorthoz]

Laughing stock of pvp ? Tell that to the republic who felt the damage of my bm weapons.

 

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac116/khorthoz/662kdamage.jpg

Edited February 8, 2012 by Khorthoz

[AcaciaDragon]

Laughing stock of pvp ? Tell that to the republic who felt the damage of my bm weapons.

 

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac116/khorthoz/662kdamage.jpg

 

it wasnt so much your weapons as it was those two healers who had over 400k healing done each.

[Brightbillatb]

Do you even play a Mara?

 

 

Real question is, do you play a marauder...

 

Sad enough marauders do suck, if the person behind the toon sucks. Its one of those classes that you can either be really good at.. or really suck at. No offense to you sir but maybe you need a easier class to play cause we are fine dmg dealers.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/815/560k.png/

[Hoseman]

Right... because smugglers and shadows don't have it far worse if they're knocked back. Beyond that, the frequency of being knocked back when you've got >6 seconds left on Charge should be minimal. If you're charging a lone target that's in a position to remove you from a fight with a simple knockback, you're doing it wrong. We can't be interrupted, we can't be LOS to stop our damage, you can't run away from us. The ONLY way to shut out a Marauder is to be a Maruader and blind them. Even then, you've got 6 Seconds.

 

Counter a Commando? Interrupt them. Counter a Sage? Interrupt them. Counter a Shadow? Knock back and slow them, also squishy as hell. Counter a Scoundrel? Knock them back or if their burst is already spent, /laugh. Counter a Guardian? Just shoot them, if they're DPS, they're squishy. Counter a Gunslinger? LOS. Counter a vanguard? Outlast the burst. Counter a Sentinel? Good luck.

 

You can take a DPS of any of the other 7 ACs out of the fight for a lot longer and a lot more effectively than you can a Sentinel/Marauder.

 

 

Even if it's not at me, I'll respond to it. The only class that is superior to a Sentinel/Marauder at PvP is a lucky Vanguard/Powertech. I say lucky because they rely on reset chances that are set % values that can't be improved. If they're lucky, they can do a lot. If not, they're going to be dry on ammo quickly. If they have average luck, they're not better than us.

 

People always say "this game isn't about how much you can do solo". Way I look at it, if I know that I can typically go into a 1v3 and kill 2 before escaping, with 2 teammates I should be able to wipe those 3. More often than not, that's exactly what happens.

 

Every class has problems atm, the thing that makes sentinels the best class is the majority of our problems aren't noticeable at a high level of play, compared to other classes being limited by their issues.

 

 

The more i read the more i feel like you have no clue what your talking about.

[Betraymodex]

This. This 1000x. We're the only DPS class that can't be shut out. Yes, you've got knockbacks, which take everyone out of the fight, but we're not interruptable, we're extremely durable, we've got amazing damage output, we've got the best objective-orientated AND the best offensive-orientated group buffs in game, we've got a larger stable of interrupts than anyone, we're not susceptible to a bad RNG string....

 

In fact, the only class that can do an adequate job of shutting down a Sentinel/Marauder is a Sentinel/Marauder. Think about that.

 

 

 

This ^ vs a ball carrier or healer I can't think of a better class.

[Apocalypse-]

The more i read the more i feel like you have no clue what your talking about.

 

I suppose it's mutual then. Btw, you're going to get there eventually, I know it.

 

All I know is I've been saying it for months, and now that there are a lot of people learning the class, I'm starting to hear guildies and teammates cursing Maruaders quite often.

 

If you're a bad player, you're going to be terrible as a marauder. If you're a good player but inexperienced as a marauder, you're not going to do that much. If you're a good player that knows marauders, you're going to be the most dangerous person in the match*.

 

*Provided there isn't an exceptionally lucky DPS powertech or vanguard. I'd prefer consistency to luck anyday of the week though.

[HBninjaX]

This. This 1000x. We're the only DPS class that can't be shut out. Yes, you've got knockbacks, which take everyone out of the fight, but we're not interruptable, we're extremely durable, we've got amazing damage output, we've got the best objective-orientated AND the best offensive-orientated group buffs in game, we've got a larger stable of interrupts than anyone, we're not susceptible to a bad RNG string....

 

In fact, the only class that can do an adequate job of shutting down a Sentinel/Marauder is a Sentinel/Marauder. Think about that.

 

ok I can agree with this, when we're at our best. at our worst we're a free kill (when force camo and undying are down). when I see mercs doing more damage, more kills, with less deaths -- I start to wonder about the state of the class.

 

sure they work great with crutches like gear, healbots/guardbots, but that's a poor design

Edited February 8, 2012 by HBninjaX

[Apocalypse-]

ok I can agree with this, when we're at our best. at our worst we're a free kill (when force camo and undying are down). when I see mercs doing more damage, more kills, with less deaths -- I start to wonder about the state of the class.

 

sure they work great with crutches like gear, healbots/guardbots, but that's a poor design

If a merc is doing more damage with fewer kills... the team that merc is playing against is terrible. DPS mercs/commandos don't even have a place in competitive PvP.

 

And equal gear, equal high-play level, a Sent/Mara is more valuable than any other . Yes, Sorc/Sages or Commando/Mercs might get more damage done against a team that outgears them, but that's just because they can AoE far more than we can. And we don't need healbots/guardbots anymore than anyone else.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[MatAuc]

I have 28 keybinds that I USE EVERY WZ. And I know the problem is with lesser skilled people/clickers just because of that fact. Click 28 different buttons all over your screen, you WILL get demolished. It makes them a bit harder to play, so what? I enjoy it and shame on you for wanting easy mode. If it were easy mode, then you get QQ its ez and pew pews.

 

Also, (it isn't about epeen) I do on AVERAGE ~420k dmg per wz (I'd say low end 340k, top end 540k), 50-60 kills, NEVER more than 5 deaths and on average 1-2 deaths, get the 75k medal from annhi healing. Also, I usually have the most objective pts. If I (and many people) can do it, it really comes down to you need to play better.

[Mcleavestein]

My main problem is our lack of flexibility... We can DPS or we can... uhhh... DPS. Warzones require Tanks for ball carrying and node defense, and healers to keep everyone alive. We can do neither. I propose that they make our fury buffs work on the whole raid within the radius, so that we are actually useful to people for something other than being a portable buzzsaw. We can use predation and help a ball carrier, instead of MAYBE helping if they happen to be in the same group. People would want us around if we kept them buffed.

[Apocalypse-]

My main problem is our lack of flexibility... We can DPS or we can... uhhh... DPS. Warzones require Tanks for ball carrying and node defense, and healers to keep everyone alive. We can do neither. I propose that they make our fury buffs work on the whole raid within the radius, so that we are actually useful to people for something other than being a portable buzzsaw. We can use predation and help a ball carrier, instead of MAYBE helping if they happen to be in the same group. People would want us around if we kept them buffed.

 

Uh...

 

NO ONE is better at solo holding a node than a Sent/Mara. As for ball running, only people better than us are Guardians (2 leaps) and Tactics Vanguards/Powertechs. With how bad the DPS output on Tactics is though, the CC immunity and movement speed are the only good things in the tree, so you don't see the latter often. It's a tie with full-tank Vanguards, they're more durable than we are, but they're also slower than we are, and we have better defensive cooldowns (Rebuke, Saber Ward, Guarded by the Force, and Pacify vs Reactive shield and smoke grenade).

[Spiderbubble]

I always feel like I am rocking playstyle-wise, but my gear is still so awful that it's hard for me to compare to other people at 50. Currently have two Centurion items and three Champion items. It's not easy to do PvP against a full team of Battlemasters. In fact, you won't hurt them much.

 

Pre-50 I'd be demolishing everything with a red health bar, was always top 3 in damage in the game, and nearly always went "Unbeatable" or better. Granted, I never had over 300k damage (due to not as much health on non-50s, I presume).

 

Yes, I don't do as well anymore at the end screen stat-wise, but gameplay-wise I feel I'm doing more for the team than before I hit 50.

 

Once I hit Battlemaster, I'll post again.