Mekrath Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Heh yea I'm gonna give that one about six months as well. I learned my lesson from the AOC launch. I was there for the AO launch and as hard as it may be to believe, it was infinitely worse than the AoC launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I was there for the AO launch and as hard as it may be to believe, it was infinitely worse than the AoC launch. - game crashed about anywhere/anytime - no secure payment system Just to name two of the disasters which happened when anarchy online launched. Don't think there was another game ever with the problems of AO at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekrath Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 - game crashed about anywhere/anytime - no secure payment system Just to name two of the disasters which happened when anarchy online launched. Don't think there was another game ever with the problems of AO at launch. Pretty much. As interesting as TSW looks, I won't buy it because I refuse to give Funcom another dime. Too bad, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I was there for the AO launch and as hard as it may be to believe, it was infinitely worse than the AoC launch. lol yes, that is absolutely true, I think the AO launch was indeed one of the worst in MMO history. AoC was good compared to that disaster, but they both still exist. Even WoW's launch was quite a drama. The last years the launches have become better, starting with Aion. So things change for the better, even if not everyone notices it (or maybe just forgets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliff Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Pretty much. As interesting as TSW looks, I won't buy it because I refuse to give Funcom another dime. Too bad, really. - Flying whompa's which ment a drop dead after zoning - People in chat happy when they were online for a few minute without crashing Sniff the memories all come back. Now i can laugh about it but back then....arghh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Gratz BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I just fail at understanding the logic. It's like people actually get upset hearing these numbers and rage "These numbers cannot be true." from there they try to counter with "it sold 2 million but only 1.7 active subs so 300k must have left" for all they know those people who bought the game at 60 dollars, 150 or 80 dollar's are not likely to quit in the first month. It's amazing with all the "I quit" thread's and "I unsubbed" why do they keep flocking back here to explain to everyone how much they don't care by posting a full drawn out example writing in detail how they don't care. For people who don't care they sure do get upset at the game's success. RIFT took a few month's to even reach 1 million and the fact that EA said before the game was release if it could retain a million sub's it would be a success. Now we just have to see what happens. Personally I don't know why so many people care. You might mistake this place for a stock market. If this game has 100k subs or 500 million. How is that personally going to change anything you do in game or if you already left out of game. Yeah warcraft has around 10 million. People don't understand only 4 million are in the US region while the other's are in South/Norha Korea/China. They also lost 2 million sub's and very well could be dipping under the 10 million mark very soon. Alot of those sub's are people who use bots and farm gold and they have several accounts and alot cost alot less. That's just my take. While no launch is a complete success warcraft had tons of bugs and was delayed also they are tagreting a younger audience that could backfire if the younger people decide not to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekrath Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If this game has 100k subs or 500 million. How is that personally going to change anything you do in game or if you already left out of game. Because if the game had 100k subs it would be either be closed down or at very lest further development would be stopped, which would definitely change how I felt about playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krionic Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 heck I'm sure they even pay some people to post messages discourage people. How much were you paid to encourage the people? Conspiracy much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geldogroucho Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Just goes to prove that the endless doomsaying of the same 50-100 noisy trolls who infected this forum like a virus was just HOT AIR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because if the game had 100k subs it would be either be closed down or at very lest further development would be stopped, which would definitely change how I felt about playing it. That doesn't really make sense either. Even MMOs that most people call failures still manage to stick around for years, often with continued development. Hell, Everquest was receiving full expansions years after WOW supposedly killed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezlabor Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because if the game had 100k subs it would be either be closed down or at very lest further development would be stopped, which would definitely change how I felt about playing it. Thats not at all true. COH 100k subs ro so and has had plenty of expansions and content added. AOC was around 70k subs two expansions later its still getting content updates. Plenty of mmos have survived and had content updates at 100k subs. But it would be bad for THIS game because THIS game cost 200 million dollars to develop those others did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That doesn't really make sense either. Even MMOs that most people call failures still manage to stick around for years, often with continued development. Hell, Everquest was receiving full expansions years after WOW supposedly killed it. Surely you're not suggesting that this game would get the same kind of development with 100,000 subs as it would with 1 million. More profits = execs willing to sink more money in to the game to keep it going. This isn't rocket science. There is also the possibility that if subs drop too low, it will either be unprofitable or else not profitable enough to justify the resources going into it, and be shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrzez Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hopefully EA seeing how well it has done makes them infuse the money, or properly talented devs needed to really kickstart this game. Some Trion like content and caring from BW would go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) 2 really positive things that stood out to me in this announcement: 1. They've increaased the marketing budget.2. They've sped up the development schedule for upcoming content updates. This is great news for anyone playing the game (and bad news for anyone who wants it to fail). Edited February 2, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Surely you're not suggesting that this game would get the same kind of development with 100,000 subs as it would with 1 million. More profits = execs willing to sink more money in to the game to keep it going. This isn't rocket science. There is also the possibility that if subs drop too low, it will either be unprofitable or else not profitable enough to justify the resources going into it, and be shut down. Because more sub's mean more serious dev? Everquest has released more expansion's and I'm sure alot more content even after it was hit was low sub's number's it kept pumping out a new expansion every six months to a year. While how many expansion's has warcraft had about four? It doesn't make sense. By your logic watcraft should be exploding with content ...yet it's not. They do throw in a patch now and again to make it interesting. Last patch was a few months ago but that's supposed last a little over a year untill their next expansion. While everyone may not love everquest. It seems pretty even if everquest is not pumping out more content then warcraft right now and they have alot less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safiir Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hell, Everquest was receiving full expansions years after WOW supposedly killed it. And it's still releasing expansion to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Surely you're not suggesting that this game would get the same kind of development with 100,000 subs as it would with 1 million. More profits = execs willing to sink more money in to the game to keep it going. This isn't rocket science. There is also the possibility that if subs drop too low, it will either be unprofitable or else not profitable enough to justify the resources going into it, and be shut down. I don't care if it continues to get any development or not. I enjoy whats there, and when I get bored I'll unsub and play something else. The question was why your personal enjoyment is tied to the games success. And as I said before, and the history of mmos proves this, most MMOs never truest die and continue on years after its been decided they weren't a success. In other words if you enjoy the game there is little fear it will actually vanish off the map before you've gotten your entertainment from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleryan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Quick note: 12 million subs =/= 12 million players. The number of actual players floats more around 6 or 8 million. This guy goes through the math using official financial data released by Blizzard. I checked the math myself and the sources, and it all works out. http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-1.html http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-2.html http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-of-warcraft-china-interesting_17.html Definition of a WoW subscriber and implications: Very imformative post, thanks. I enjoyd reading those links and it makes alot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 And it's still releasing expansion to this day. AND! It has a sequel out. They both are doing fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Quick note: 12 million subs =/= 12 million players. The number of actual players floats more around 6 or 8 million. This guy goes through the math using official financial data released by Blizzard. I checked the math myself and the sources, and it all works out. http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-1.html http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/02/active-subscriptions-revisited-part-2.html http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-of-warcraft-china-interesting_17.html Definition of a WoW subscriber and implications: They may have floated around 6 or 8 mil several years ago, but considering the only real accounts are in US/EU (max 4m at one time) they are probably somewhere in the 2-3m range at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because more sub's mean more serious dev? Everquest has released more expansion's and I'm sure alot more content even after it was hit was low sub's number's it kept pumping out a new expansion every six months to a year. While how many expansion's has warcraft had about four? It doesn't make sense. By your logic watcraft should be exploding with content ...yet it's not. They do throw in a patch now and again to make it interesting. Last patch was a few months ago but that's supposed last a little over a year untill their next expansion. While everyone may not love everquest. It seems pretty even if everquest is not pumping out more content then warcraft right now and they have alot less money. You are making the wrong comparison. You don't compare WoW to EQ because the costs to develop content and maintain the servers could be completely different. Instead, you compare a game to itself. A simple example: if Cata cost Blizzard $25 million to develop and release but they only had enough subs to get half of that money back, then they would have released a much smaller expansion pack instead at a far lower cost. Instead of new zones, new raids, and revamping the old world, perhaps they leave out the old world revamp because it is too costly, and perhaps they re-use much of their art instead of creating new art. To simply say "they released a patches/expansions" is not good enough. You also need a more qualitative analysis. Of course, one could argue that if sub numbers are high, then why release big expansions at all since players are obviously willing to pay regardless. However, that is a shortsighted argument since as Cata shows, if you don't do enough then people WILL leave even if you have the top game and even if you are still releasing new patches/expansions at the same rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I don't care if it continues to get any development or not. I enjoy whats there, and when I get bored I'll unsub and play something else. The question was why your personal enjoyment is tied to the games success. And as I said before, and the history of mmos proves this, most MMOs never truest die and continue on years after its been decided they weren't a success. In other words if you enjoy the game there is little fear it will actually vanish off the map before you've gotten your entertainment from it. This is an MMO. People expect it to be long term, and to be able to play it far longer than they would a single player game. Long term enjoyment of a game diminishes greatly when no new content comes out because you'll get bored with doing the same things over and over. Lack of revenues will limit the opportunities and amounts of new content that a developer can/will deliver, thus impacting the total amount and quality of new content, thus impacting the ability to enjoy the game long term. Edited February 2, 2012 by ptwonline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) To further refine my point, because my last was rushed... I simply refuse to obsess over sub numbers. That's for those execs to do. My only concern is whether I enjoy the product and if I trust the word of the people behind it. So long as the answer to both is YES I'm going to enjoy my game, regardless of how the sub numbers fluctuate. And again, games that are quite flawed still survive for years. Even in the worst case scenario I know that the likely hood of TOR vanishing or not being expanded upon is almost nil. And it's not like that's wishful thinking on my part. It's been the example of almost every MMO ever released. Very few truly die and even those that do survive for a very long time. Edited February 2, 2012 by WickedDjinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdstephen Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) They may have floated around 6 or 8 mil several years ago, but considering the only real accounts are in US/EU (max 4m at one time) they are probably somewhere in the 2-3m range at this point. That sounds about right. At most WoW has 3 times more NA/EU players than TOR. So while WoW definitely has many more players than TOR, it's not something ridiculous like 5-10 times the amount. Hopefully Bioware will release this game in Asia to get more subscribers, though translating everything from English to Chinese and hiring authentic voice actors to do so is much harder than to do it in French and German. Very imformative post, thanks. I enjoyd reading those links and it makes alot of sense. No problem. It irks me when people talk about WoW's player base like it's some unattainable figure, so I use those links when appropriate. Edited February 2, 2012 by cdstephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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