Sawbones is BROKEN, here's some suggestions to fix them.

[kalexkhan]

My sawbones healer has enough in scrapper to get the bonus hot when pugnacity is up. It makes me very survivable, and I also get sucker punch and the free backstabs too, everything else is in sawbones tree.

 

The only thing I'm missing is the aoe heal but as a pvper it's useless anyhow.

 

I really enjoy playing my sawbones healer in pvp and generally feel like he performs well... But I do think sage healers pull off bigger heals in more clutch situations.

 

I would take a buff in stride for sure.

[kalexkhan]

The only thing that annoys me right now is the no heals issue after vanishing act.

 

If that went away tomorrow I'd be super happy.

 

Maybe some of the healing should scale a bit better as well.

 

Diagnostic scan is also completely useless, even if u pit talent points into it's corresponding buffs, it's still garbage.

 

I rather shoot someone in pvp than bust this out.

[Ernaud]

Only Kolto pack and kolto cloud need a buff somehow, other mechanics are fine and overpowered already.

[Sacredpreist]

They definitely need to do something to kolto pack to make it less situational.E-medpack needs a small healing buff maybe 15%,kolto cloud needs reduced energy or increased healing because as it is, its not worth 30 energy.Kolto cloud should be weaker than two stack SRMP but not by as much as it is know where it is barely stronger than one stack srmp

[TyrantOfNordberg]

Those who say that Diagnostic scan is useless no longer has the right to speak about sawbones healing. You clearly do not know how to play your class.

[SirArion]

Those who say that Diagnostic scan is useless no longer has the right to speak about sawbones healing. You clearly do not know how to play your class.

 

I agree that DS is fine and works wonders in PVE, but more than likely those that say it's useless are not healing HM's/OP's or are entirely PVP.

 

In PVP it is pretty worthless and in non HM's and OP's it is not needed so it may be just that they haven't hit that level yet.

[kalexkhan]

Those who say that Diagnostic scan is useless no longer has the right to speak about sawbones healing. You clearly do not know how to play your class.

 

Those who stop in pvp and use diagnostic scan in pvp do not know how to play their class. And no longer have a right to speak about saw bones.

Edited February 3, 2012 by kalexkhan

[TrikkiOne]

Those who say that Diagnostic scan is useless no longer has the right to speak about sawbones healing. You clearly do not know how to play your class.

 

As the original post said, it was mostly directly at PVP. This comment was unnecesarry.

Edited February 4, 2012 by TrikkiOne

[songofprecept]

If all of that comes in I will literally be a god. Either we are facing terribles 24/7 or I genuinely do not have any issues healing in pvp whatsoever topping pointless scoreboards, keeping caps till the cavalry turn up with ease etc etc

 

Imho sawbones is the best healing class in pvp.

 

For the record I never pug, usually play with sentinel and gunslinger, plus either vanguard (who guards the sentinel) or another sawbones.

 

I am certainly no pvp god, decent enough but this class is handsdown the best healing class in pvp in any game I have played to date.

[Affics]

If all of that comes in I will literally be a god. Either we are facing terribles 24/7 or I genuinely do not have any issues healing in pvp whatsoever topping pointless scoreboards, keeping caps till the cavalry turn up with ease etc etc

 

Imho sawbones is the best healing class in pvp.

 

For the record I never pug, usually play with sentinel and gunslinger, plus either vanguard (who guards the sentinel) or another sawbones.

 

I am certainly no pvp god, decent enough but this class is handsdown the best healing class in pvp in any game I have played to date.

 

You are deeply mistaken. Lots of classes are better than this.

[songofprecept]

I'm deeply mistaken but my experience is obviously vastly different to yours.

 

I'm not mistaken, in PvP (exclusively) I can comfortably kite around 3 or 4 melee, Sorcs and Snipers hurt but then LoSing them round turrets up and down stairs etc is easy enough.

 

As I say I run with 2 regular people all the time and one or other of the other 2 classes so we play well as a team. But I'm regularly pulling well over 300k healing with 1 maybe 2 deaths max on all 3 warzones.

 

I am Battlemaster with 2 bits of BM gear, rest is a mix of Champ/Cent. And am Biochem with Rakatas.

 

So I'm either totally deluded or on a daily basis playing against absolutely god awful people with no thumbs.... Which I doubt as some are pretty good.

 

I'm not saying there are issues I am saying that they are really not that bad and IMHO we are one of the best healing classes I've ever played in PvP across any game (used to be a bard in DaoC / AM in Warhammer / ToS in AoC etc etc)

[kalexkhan]

 

I am Battlemaster with 2 bits of BM gear, rest is a mix of Champ/Cent. And am Biochem with Rakatas.

 

So I'm either totally deluded or on a daily basis playing against absolutely god awful people with no thumbs.... Which I doubt as some are pretty good.

 

I'm not saying there are issues I am saying that they are really not that bad and IMHO we are one of the best healing classes I've ever played in PvP across any game (used to be a bard in DaoC / AM in Warhammer / ToS in AoC etc etc)

 

I'm in your boat as well. In pvp, I'm becoming a notorious pain for empire players, and I wouldn't say I'm the greatest, but from my own personal experiences, I'm rarely ever getting killed, and I'm keeping my teammates alive or just alive longer in situations that continue to surprise me based on the odds.

 

I do play with other good pvpers, and are well geared, but I know the difference I am making isn't an illusion. Smuggler healers, heal on the move, can constantly improve their positions, stay alive longer, and clutch heal low targets better than other healers IMO. We lack cc, but as long as you have good awareness, you can kite forever, and still spread heals around even when under pressure.

 

I think were way under rated in pvp, but it also could just be a class and play style that's difficult to understand or master. Those that have found their stride earlier than others, are feeling great right now.

[SliggXx]

I'm deeply mistaken but my experience is obviously vastly different to yours.

 

I'm not mistaken, in PvP (exclusively) I can comfortably kite around 3 or 4 melee, Sorcs and Snipers hurt but then LoSing them round turrets up and down stairs etc is easy enough.

 

As I say I run with 2 regular people all the time and one or other of the other 2 classes so we play well as a team. But I'm regularly pulling well over 300k healing with 1 maybe 2 deaths max on all 3 warzones.

 

I am Battlemaster with 2 bits of BM gear, rest is a mix of Champ/Cent. And am Biochem with Rakatas.

 

So I'm either totally deluded or on a daily basis playing against absolutely god awful people with no thumbs.... Which I doubt as some are pretty good.

 

I'm not saying there are issues I am saying that they are really not that bad and IMHO we are one of the best healing classes I've ever played in PvP across any game (used to be a bard in DaoC / AM in Warhammer / ToS in AoC etc etc)

 

You are pretty mistaken, though not deluded. Everything you just described can be done with any other healing class with similar results. The key is that as a Scoundrel, you have to work twice as hard to pump out the kind of HPS that Sages can and you don't have an iota of their utility.

 

I am sure you are a good player and I know you want to flex your epeen here, but I would almost guarantee you do not average more healing than I do in Warzones. I have seen one Scoundrel on my server that performs equally as well. Suffice to say that I know the class and how to get the most out of it in PvP. I have also played a Sorcerer extensively as a healer and can say that I was flat out overpowered. While I can sometimes hit around 650-750K in voidstar on my Scoundrel if I play well, I hit 830K without even struggling or stressing to do so. This wasn't even my character. In every aspect of PvP healing, the Sorc outperformed the Scoundrel. Despite the light armor, I felt much more safe because of the numerous "outs" the Sorcerer has at its disposal.

 

I think the problem is that in the right hands a bad class can be successful, which if your claims are true and you are a good player, might give you the impression that the class is balanced. Unfortunately, you lack the perspective that others might have. Trust me, find someone to loan you their sage. Learn the class a bit and go PvP then report back here and try to tell me it isn't a major imbalance.

Edited February 4, 2012 by SliggXx

[kalexkhan]

Well sligxx, that is a fair point to raise.. I haven't played a sage or sorc healer at all, so I cannot compare the effective ins and outs of their kit from a personal standpoint to my smuggler.

 

The fact that myself, and some others are doing better than average isn't a big enough sample to suggest we don't need some help. For better or worse, I'll be fine with or without buffs.

 

My opinions were only brought to this thread in case anyone feels entirely too discouraged, and that that their seems to be some great ways to be effective with this class still.

 

That sentiment, however, shouldn't be confused as a counter argument for not looking at overall balance of sawbones healing correctly.

 

Cheers.

[SliggXx]

Well sligxx, that is a fair point to raise.. I haven't played a sage or sorc healer at all, so I cannot compare the effective ins and outs of their kit from a personal standpoint to my smuggler.

 

The fact that myself, and some others are doing better than average isn't a big enough sample to suggest we don't need some help. For better or worse, I'll be fine with or without buffs.

 

My opinions were only brought to this thread in case anyone feels entirely too discouraged, and that that their seems to be some great ways to be effective with this class still.

 

That sentiment, however, shouldn't be confused as a counter argument for not looking at overall balance of sawbones healing correctly.

 

Cheers.

 

Right. The class is viable. You just have to work harder to make it viable. I don't like it, but that is just currently how it is.

[Avianpixie]

I rolled a resto shaman in cataclysm and i felt like i was obsolete against disc/holy priests/resto druids.

HA!

 

 

....Anyway:

 

Sawbones PvP Healing, while i actually tend not to have a problem that isn't a direct result of a poor team, 31st talent point isn't even worth looking at and burst healing falls short of Commandos and Sages on both Resource Efficiency, General Practicality and Healing Done.

 

Our resources, compared to a Commando and a Sage, require far more management and the fact that our 4 Pip Energy Regen is *STILL* bugged at 3 EPS is downright moronic, gimping us beyond all repair if we fall short of 60% Energy, forcing us to push Cool-Head.

 

Given that we have a single heal available to us without Upper Hand our burst healing can't even be compared to Commando's or Sage's. While their heals have no requirement beyond their basic resources, we have a single direct heal that isn't dependent entirely on Upper Hand, Underworld Medicine, and if we're locked out of that while someone is taking heavy damage, well then we just have to wait for Slow Release to proc Upper Hand so we can save them, what ho.(It's super responsive healing amirite?) Of course we can always use a Global Cooldown for Pistol Whip and *then* we'll be able to save them...

 

While Upper Hand is a good concept to add to the Scoundrel, it hasn't played out well in practice. Upper Hand leaves us limited on our responsive healing and while EMP is a good small instant boost to Health, it isn't always going to be available to us, given how unforgiving Upper Hand procs can be, and Kolto Pack suffers from the same problem, while highly responsive as a 1.5 Second heal, it's dependent entirely on Upper Hand.

 

Heals over Time, while again a good concept, have a limited use in PvP Situations. With Slow Release having such a high energy cost and requiring not one but two stacks to gain the full effect, it isn't time that a PvP healer really has to spare in a high damage situation. However we're required to keep it up because it's a steady source of Upper Hand procs, and if we're locked out of UWM then Upper Hand is all we have to keep people going.

 

While Sawbones are viable in PvP, and in my opinion fun to play, there are still aspects that hinder us compared to other classes and some aspects that are just downright bothersome.

 

The only suggestions i really have to improve Scoundrel healing in any way are these( And no, i don't need all of them):

 

1) Fix the damn Energy bug so we can actually regen properly.

2) Double the healing output on Slow Release and remove the stacking.

3) Remove the Upper Hand requirement from Kolto Pack.

4) Double the healing output on Kolto Cloud, make requirements 1 Upper Hand and 15 Energy.

 

Few edits.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Avianpixie

[TrikkiOne]

Right. The class is viable. You just have to work harder to make it viable. I don't like it, but that is just currently how it is.

 

Great discussion guys. I have 2 things I'd like to point out.

 

The first point is that both Commando and Sage have greater HPS in normal conditions with far less effort.

 

While some may like to think they play the hardest healer and succeed, is it truly successful class design if only the very skilled players can succeed with it?

 

And secondly, quite a few people commenting here don't have both 50 Sages and Sawbones, I do. I can tell you the difference is night and day in every aspect. Ease of use, survivability, healing per second, resource management, burst healing, damage mitigation are all favoured by the Sage and from my less limited exposure to Commando (level 46 atm) is true for him also. I have a Commando friend who's absolutely unkillable 1v1 and often 2v1, he can heal through any class's DPS at the top gear level.

 

I guarantee that a good Sentinel/Merc will tear the best Sawbones in half despite your claims.

[navido]

I have to agree that Sawbones needs some love, I've already posted my ideas here

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=222989

 

The thing with Op/Smuggler healing is it's hard to play. It's one of the more interesting healing classes I've ever played in an MMO and I feel like when played well it's one of the most powerful healing classes in the game with it's utility and mobility.

 

Now hear me out before you start judging this post.

 

First off, our main heal

 

2 Sec cast.... not bad but due to the fact that Alacrity really doesn't help at all makes it rough to land in PvP on focused targets. When used early in a fight and UH/TA stacks can be built it's more of a non issue. This heal could be fixed with one change that would fix most of our other heals as well which I'll get to in a second.

 

The short cast heal that requires a charge of UH/TA.....

 

This...heal...is....useless. I honestly don't understand the point of this ability... it needs to either have a HoT added to it (Which would work with well with our other HoT's) OR it needs to put some kind of buff on the target. Something like an x% healing increase or an x% dmg reduction buff. Something to keep this on a PvP healers bar.

 

The stacking HoT

 

I do like our HoT and when stacked twice it's very nice. The issue is with a 1.5 sec GCD getting 2 stacks of this on more than one person in PvP is a tall order and one that likely ends in another teammate dying. Honestly I would rather this ability do all it's healing in ONE stack instead of needing to stack it and if that turned out to be too powerful bring the healing back 10-15% on it.

 

31 point talent...

 

I understand that a lot of people don't like this ability, and I must admit it isn't great... but at least it's not the AoE grenade BH/Commando get right? Yes the Sorc/Sage AoE heals for more but it in on the ground (Read doesn't move) and must be channeled (Read can't move) so it doesn't leave much room for .... you know... moving... The healing on it may be a touch lackluster and could prolly use just a touch of love from BioWare but since it does move with the tagets it's healing it does still have a place.

 

 

Instant heal that requires TA/UH

 

Best heal in the tree by far no questions asked. Love this ability. The ability to spam it on targets under 30% is the only reason this healer works and can be played well in PvP. Please please BioWare don't touch this ability. You got this one right **Golf clap**

 

 

Diagnostic scan

 

Ok... now I understand why this heal is in the game, I understand it's purpose and function. What I DO NOT understand is why do I need to spend FOUR count them FOUR talent points to make this useful in any way shape or form? Honestly if this cost 2 talents points (1 for the crit 1 for the energy) I would love this ability.... but with that high a cost it's just not worth it in PvP at all. Side note I also think this being an instant cast isn't a terrible idea either as it would keep in line with our mobile healing.

 

 

Now for changes I'd like to see be made.

 

1) For the love of all things good and holy please PLEASE allow Alacrity to affect HoT's. You shove so much of this stat on our high level gear but really we only have 1 casted heal that's worth casting. Let's this stat work with HoT's would not only GREATLY help our HoT's and overall healing but also make our one casted heal a little closer on par with the other healers who stack a bit more Alacrity due to it's usefulness to them.

 

 

2) I'd very much like to have a CD added (1 min) that granted a charge (Maybe with that diagnostic scan change add a new talent that gives 2 charges????) of UH/TA. This change does 2 things for us.

A: When our one and ONLY casted heal that doesn't require UH/TA get interrupted we would have the ability to use the instant heal or even the quick heal (You know, with the changes you'll be making to it ) instead of standing around or throwing a grenade (I know pistol whip grants a charge but people aren't always in melee range and it's not always possible to get to someone before you NEED that heal)

B: When you come up to a fight and an ally is low and you don't have TA/UH what do you do? Cast the only heal we can and hope and pray they don't die... This CD would allow us to use our better heals without having to have already been a part of the fight (Much like shield+channeled heal for Sage/Sorc and Trauma probe + a quick cast heal for BH/Commando)

 

3) Dodge and the talents for dodge needs to changed.

A: This ability needs to dodge force and tech attacks, period. It just does. It last 3 seconds for the sake of pete.

B: The talent for this... while nice, doesn't really do much. I'd rather it either remove snares/roots OR and I like this change better make us immune to knockbacks for those 3 seconds. For a class with ZERO gap closers of any kind either way (Push enemy away, pull ally towards) this would help us immeasurable

 

4) Vanish... now this honestly bothers me so much about this class. How are you going to give us stealth, give us vanish and then reduce healing received.... AND DEALT by 100% for 10 seconds after use... ok the healing received thing I get... kinda... but the dealt? Really? Why? Why can I not heal my partner after using this? This just needs to be changed.

 

 

5) I would like defensive screen to change in two ways.

A: Show me ON the tooltip what this absorbs.

B: Let me use this on an ally as well, this would add another depth to the class that I think is somewhat missing.

 

 

 

Like it, hate it, couldn't case less. I just hope you read it and take it with a grain of salt. Yes I PvP... A lot and have in many many games though I won't sit and talk about how good I am at this or that, I just wanted to share my honest opinion of the class where it sits now and where I hope it can move to in the future.

 

 

Edit : I know it's long, sorry I tend to go into detail a little much sometimes, though I did try to keep it from being a mega crit wall of text

Edited February 4, 2012 by navido

[TrikkiOne]

I have to bump this post, its win and full of good information.

[TrikkiOne]

still good info here for fixing Sawbones.

[bearishly]

We do have what seems to be the best burst dps (out of the healers) which translates into exceptional performance in 1v1 situations. Have not played sage or really faced one that has mastered full rotation with CCs, but i have beaten down plenty of guys that try to take me 1v1 in warzones (and cleanse, shield, stealth when i'm over-matched).

 

The HoT and instant heal allows us to keep health up while focusing on doing dmg only limited by GCD.

 

Keep HoT up, dot up, open with sabotage charge and shield, then back blast when possible and then blaster whip -> emergency medpac. Add grenade for burst.

 

For melee, trigger their breakout with flash grenade, dirty kick and then call in freighter on your own position.

 

Too bad this doesn't count for anything in warzones...if you're in a 1v1 situation you're doing something very wrong (and yes when I make this mistake very often...just for kicks).

 

Best damage out of the healers is totally useless in PvE.

[Bombalurina]

Am I really seeing this? So MUCH QQ over really nothing. Honestly we as a healing class are very well off as it is. You guys really need to learn the play style more then trying to "Fix" sawbones. I don't go a game without breaking 300k and my highest healing record is 910k. I'll go DAYS without dying and I wear SAGE gear as a joke to prove you don't need gear to pump out amazing heals as a Sawbone.

 

But that is our role, raw healing. We don't have utility and we don't have survivability. But we make up for it in winning the healing charts every game.... but the numbers don't lie.

 

Highest healing records in voidstar:

 

Sage/Sorc : 1.3 mil healing

BH/Commando : 1.2 mil healing

Scoundrel/Opr : Under 1 mil.

 

Just a few things need to be fixed to match up to the other classes healing, not 5 pages.

 

- Give Kolto Pack a reason to be used. Bring it back to the OLD OLD way before beta. (1.5 sec cast, more healing then Underworld Medicine, 15 sec CD, no upperhand cost. 15 energy.)

 

- They are fixing Kolto Cloud, so don't need to complain about that.

 

- Don't punish us for using our only escape mechanic by stopping our outgoing heals for 10 seconds. Sages don't get a healing debuff for using force speed, troopers don't get a debuff for using reactive shield, why do we?

 

But these changes are minor. YOU ALL need to learn to play the class properly and stop asking to be spoon fed like some WoW Healbot using children. If you WANT to learn how to heal RIGHT, ask me.

 

- Bombalurina [Death Wind Corridor Server]

[Kazomir]

Im a scoundrel sawbones, and i thing you are just ridiculous, OP.

 

I mean, basically what you are saying is: Make sawbones the healing spec of the ENTIRE GAME, also, if you mind, make us GODS in PVP so we cant be killed or anything, oh, and make our heals so powerfull that we could just go 2 mil healing every match, that would be cool, oh and we would never go out of energy again! (tough if you play carefully, you wont get killed in pvp anyways)

 

Heres what i thing would fix the scoundrel in addition to the cloud buff:

 

Make Slow-release medpack cost 20 energy and have only 1 stack (equal healing to 2 stacks now )

Include a talent deep in the sawbones tree that removes the Upper hand requirement from Kolto pack and makes it heal for like 15% more. (something of as an emergency heal if your Underworld medicine is interrupted)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Kazomir

[MaglorArcanist]

First i am a scrapper, and randomly for a change of gamestyle respec on sawbone.

Heals around 400k usually, and i run around with scrapper setup (alacrity for the moment is total useless for a sawbone and the scrapper AC in general)

 

 

 

there are few things the class need to change and something need to fixed in my opinion:

 

 

Colto pack, add a HoT or a Shield, or simply make it more faster and require ONLY UH.

 

Healing Hand (passive) tried some heals with e witout 2 stacks of upper hand... i didn't see the 6% increase of healing.

 

Prognosis: critical & patient studies, need to cost 1 point for full effect (4 is damm high cost for wat is) and to be casted on move, or in pvp is useless.

Generally the entire set+skill need an hard rework.

 

As someone has stated colto cloud has been changed in 1.2 patch, so wait for the notes.