Crafting Profession Changes in patch 1.1.2

[Almghty_gir]

the pve is so easy, if you fail at it you deserve nothing. we already cleared all the nightmare bosses.

 

PVP takes time and grind exponentially over PVE. Dont be upset because other people put in more effert and got more reward or outskilled you in PVE.

 

I worked hard for what i have...if now what I have isnt worth working for..where does that leave me? I could have gotten full rakata much easier than getting battlemaster.

 

PVPers who play all the time deserve to have nicer gear..just like PVE when you work hard for rakata you have nicer gear than the other guys.... why is this hard to understand?

 

 

because you lose in both?

 

 

I dont think thats a viable excuse.

 

but that's just it... you're saying that if people lose at pve they deserve nothing, but people who lose in pvp deserve shinys?

 

edit: the other thing to bear in mind, is they haven't said anywhere at all that they'll be making champ/battlemaster WORSE, what they'll most likely do is put up some level 49/50 gear purchaseable with warzone commendations that has less stats than centurion, thereby easing the transitions for new 50's.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Almghty_gir

[Descends]

im just saying that, battlemaster deserves to be geared better.

 

id be very glad if they gave lvl 50's some pvp gear right off the bat because its a team game.

 

i just dont feel battlemaster gear should be nerfed nor should it be easy to get.

[CorwinCorey]

Funny... I find it funny how everyone assumes that they will be "nerfing" pvp gear. They simply said that the gap was too far, and they wanted to address that.

 

Improving crafted items (ie things like orange armours being critable for the augment slot) and allowing pvp base mods to be removed and placed into other things is one step. Adding in new schematics, well, thats another step. Crafted mods that are the equal of what the dailies drop is also a good way to go.

 

That will leave the MAIN difference ebtween pvp and pve gear to be... well, expertise. That gap will still be there... one pvp'ers will have to earn. It's a FAR bigger gap there than the one between the other stats. top end raid gear SHOULD be the equal of top end pvp gear... with the exception of expertise.

 

This post was mostly about biochem. The changes don't make it less viable... but it does change it. No longer being the ONLY thing to choose endgame, it becomes an option, and an integrated part of the economy. Yes, biochem players will still have their self-only consumables. A costly item to make... but worth it long run. and being able to sell the ones that are consumed, well, that means a more level playing field (for their alts too!) as well as a flow of cash to that player (repairs get expensive... so expensive...)

 

Those people that will be making more with crafting other things (orange item sets, rakkata etc) will be spending more on those same stims. It simply integrates biochem into the economy again, as it should have been before.

[vandana_]

Additionally, we've reduced the effectiveness of the BioChem exclusive Rakata Stimpacks to be equal to Energized stimpacks.

 

The more I think of it the more I come to a conclusion that Georg Zoeller confused Energized with Exotech. Cause this change seems so stupid it's unlikely to be even real.

 

Can someone with high level Biochem on PTR confirm this?

[Yun-law]

To me the simple fix is this: Allow players to buy Champion and Battlemaster Bags Early. And I mean more than 1. That way a player who is PvPing a lot can provide for their future by storing up a bunch of bags before they hit level 50 and again before they hit 60 Valor.

 

No changes to the gear, just let us invest in our future.

[Descends]

To me the simple fix is this: Allow players to buy Champion and Battlemaster Bags Early. And I mean more than 1. That way a player who is PvPing a lot can provide for their future by storing up a bunch of bags before they hit level 50 and again before they hit 60 Valor.

 

No changes to the gear, just let us invest in our future.

 

100% agree

[LadyRaven]

Georg has always been awesome.

 

Anyways, please when addressing other crafts add orange moddable techstaves and tech blades. We have a few companions running around with no moddable weapons and this needs fixing asap.

 

Plus the additonal sales for armstech's should be nice. All the crafts need more stuff to make, more crits with augment slots would help too. I don't know about anyone elses's server but ours is filled with augments because so few items have slots. They don't sell well at all even high level ones, its depressing.

[Mrs_Murder]

I want the changes to purple items and armoring slots now!! :'( So sad!

[Almghty_gir]

im just saying that, battlemaster deserves to be geared better.

 

id be very glad if they gave lvl 50's some pvp gear right off the bat because its a team game.

 

i just dont feel battlemaster gear should be nerfed nor should it be easy to get.

 

battlemaster IS easy to get, it's the easiest gear in the game to get by far, people even use AFK macros to get it.

[TheeWasp]

battlemaster IS easy to get, it's the easiest gear in the game to get by far, people even use AFK macros to get it.

 

columi gear isnt much harder tbh, rakata only sligthly more

[Almghty_gir]

columi gear isnt much harder tbh, rakata only sligthly more

 

i'm not saying i disagree. but there is a definite difference between being able to obtain high level gear whether you win or lose, and only being able to obtain it by winning.

 

you MUST clear the bosses of an encounter to get columi/rakata gear, if you fail you get nothing.

you need only show up to "earn" valor, and thereby obtain battlemaster rank. you can even go afk and guard a random sage/sorcerer and put follow on them in ilum and reap massive rewards, completing your daily/weekly ilum pvp quests with no effort, and gianing valor as you do it.

[ebunts]

I hate to say it, but SWToR crafting is the worse that I have ever played or seen. The crafting system in SWG was too complicated in too many ways. But I did find the crafting in SWG to be fun.

 

In UO weight was the only issue when mining, in SWG, resource stats and inventory space was only issue, In SWTOR the number of items a companion can make is the main issue. You have no way to have your companion craft more than 5 items when you log out. In-game to have pop-up windows open when in combat is just too annoying to have companions gather during that time and inventory space is needed for looting. The crafting times is an issue if you just stand around to craft. To make 1 item can take 15 or more mins. That comes out to making 5 items in 1.25 hrs. That is a complete waste of time. And I know the crafting times get even higher for each item.

 

Crafted items seems to be so far worse than non-crafted items. So there is no reason to even craft. I had thought I had read that crafted items was going to be on par with non-crafted items or to be slightly better than non-crafted. This is not the case. Crafted items is the worse that I have ever seen in any MMO. I was sooooooo disappointed when I seen the actual crafting system that I thought I would cry.

 

Some mods should be able to be crafted by all crafting skills While others should be crafting class specific. An instance of cross crafting, Biotech makes a wpn mod., the result being more absorbion of energy based mods due to the chem nature of the mod. A armortech that makes the same mod might have better resists while armstech may result in better aim.

 

just a few of my thoughts. Obtaining raw material should be more available. I hate node systems even though if you mine a side of a mountain the mountain is still a node but atleast you get more than just one or two resources. And you get more than 1 to 5 of that resource. You have junk landspeeders or droids all over the place but you cant extract any resource from them, and in larger quanities. You would or should get resources that you might not be able to use, but be able to sell on the market for others to use. An example would be composit materials. Biotech crafters should be able to convert composit materials into useful crafting material by breaking down the composits.

 

Oh well thats just a few of my thoughts

Edited February 7, 2012 by ebunts

[TheeWasp]

I hate to say it, but SWToR crafting is the worse that I have ever played or seen. The crafting system in SWG was too complicated in too many ways. But I did find the crafting in SWG to be fun.

 

it was not complicated at all? use good craftingtools/station, good mats and experiment, make a schematic and pop it into a factory?

 

I also found it alot of fun, I miss the crafting from swg....

Edited February 7, 2012 by TheeWasp

[vandana_]

I hate to say it, but SWToR crafting is the worse that I have ever played or seen. The crafting system in SWG was too complicated in too many ways. But I did find the crafting in SWG to be fun.

 

You apparently have not seen WoW crafting which was a series of tedious mouse-clicks sometimes semi-automated by addons.

[Ergolus]

and aggain they do not realize there is NO LONG TERM..

so many other things are just in the pipe... swtor is allready dead.. sorry devs...

[ashioxd]

Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals no longer require Biochem to use.

Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals are no longer bound, allowing them to be traded or sold to other players.

Rakata reusable stims and adrenals have been reduced in power, providing buffs equal to Energized stims and adrenals. However, the tooltips for these items have not been updated and will still display old values.

The Exotech Med Unit schematic obtained from the Eternity Vault Operation now functions properly and can be learned.

 

 

 

i still cant use purple stims....

[Bluetickone]

Fair concerns... but nobody said anything about nerfs for PvP gear just yet.

 

There are many ways of achieving our intended goal, from stabilizing early gear acquisition through diminishing/removal of the random factor to the introduction of new gear over time... and a dozen other methods in-between.

 

To spell it out: We currently have no intention to modify the stats on existing PvP gear downwards (which I assume you mean by 'nerf'). Nobody has talked about eliminating the gap between old level 50s and new level 50s either.

 

-- Georg

 

truth is, economic realities force them to keep making things easier, softer, squishier for new and incoming players. I get that but that said, you guys are gonna lose a lot of players off the back end of this game. I am shocked by the number of battlemasters with a full rakata set setting around bored to tears -- all this within 6 weeks of release? really?

[Zacheria]

In regards to reducing the effectivceness of Adrenals and Stims, I have never once thought to myself that these items are over powered or hold too much sway at the end game level of play.

 

The effect of the stim is lost on death and provides minor advantages in their current state without tipping the scale too much in a confrontation, as player skill can still overcome the effectiveness of the stims. Secondly in regards to the Adrenals. These are 20 second items which provide good bang for buck but require timing to deploy effectively and again these do not tip the scales against a more highly skilled player in any significant way.

 

I feel as though on the BioChem front Bioware aren't just barking up the wrong tree... they are in fact in the wrong forest barking up the wrong tree. For clarity sake I do not have biochem on a single character and I purchase my stims, adrenals and medpacks from other players.

 

The issue with crafting at the moment is that the other crafting professions are completely irrelevant when it comes to end game play. I have mostly used ArmourMech to aid guild members in their leveling and to sell the odd piece on the GTN for increased income.

 

I do not know what the solution to the crafting issue is but at the moment Bioware is failing to address the problem at the source, instead focusing on the only crafting profession which offers players anything at the end game. If Bioware decide to continue down this path all they will accomplish is rendering all the crafting professions as useless at endgame.

 

In regards to addresssing PvP gear, and I am certain this will gather negative comments, but the cold hard reality is that expertise was a mistake. PvP in any MMO should be based on player skill, not who has grinded the most in order to gain gear which provides them with a completely unfair advantage. Whether or not players care to admit it, going toe-to-toe against someone in full battlemaster gear against another player in standard equipment is like taking candy from a baby. Obviously Battlemaster is at the peak of the mountain but even with Champion gear and Centurion you will still decimate an opponent without the PvP gear with relative, if not complete, ease.

 

True PvP'rs are those who want a level playing field where skill and coordination win the day. Not an arbitrary stat added because another game decided it was a good idea. For PvP players should be rewarded with titles, cosmetic items, customisable gear, crafting recipes etc etc. Items which do not provide an inherent advantage.

 

I know this is a touchy subject as there are a large number of players in the playerbase who have worked hard to obtain these items but this illustrates another fundamental flaw. When a player is asked about their PvP gear, I have never once encountered a player who has openly said they acquired it as a result of playing PvP. They always refer to it as working to obtain it. In PvP the only work you should be doing is the mastery of the class and the bettering of your own personal skill.

 

Regards,

Zacheria

[Kyrinic]

truth is, economic realities force them to keep making things easier, softer, squishier for new and incoming players. I get that but that said, you guys are gonna lose a lot of players off the back end of this game. I am shocked by the number of battlemasters with a full rakata set setting around bored to tears -- all this within 6 weeks of release? really?

 

I have never seen anyone with a full rakata set on my server.

[Kotogami]

Since this topic is on Crafting Profession Changes, I would like to offer input. As it stands crafting is pretty much defined on "what everyone should take"

 

Biochem - This is pretty much what everyone wants because of well, it's everything. - There is no other way to word this.

 

Artifice - Nifty little skill to have if you want decent color crystals, enhancement upgrades, and hilt upgrades. The generators and focuses here are alright, but are nothing special

 

Cybertech - It came to my to my attention recently you can make C2/2V pretty ungodly using this skill, other then that - you can make upgrades to armoring and mods, ear pieces, and that's about it - good for Assassin/Shadow tanks shockingly, since the melee tank companions don't do you any justice as a tank, and healing companions don't come until later for these tank based characters.

 

Synthweaving - While it's making armor for the force users and you could get full orange sets out of it, shockingly isn't worth the effort. Variants of orange armor sets might be worth it, but have fun R/Eing those until you get it.

 

Armormech - As above

 

Armstech - Barrel upgrades and....wait nothing else really. The weapons you get through questing usually overpower this skill in a heartbeat. The only advantage you really have with this is at a 400 skill if you want to spend time getting the variants of the orange weapons.

 

The way I feel the crafting skills should be improved?

 

Biochem - Leave it alone, instead make the other crafts more desirable by giving them more.

 

Artifice: My assassin/shadow tank friend pointed this out. Assassins can equip shield generators, but Artifice can not make any willpower based shield generators. That should probably be added to the artifice crafting lift. Other then that, they don't need much else to be worth while

 

Cybertech: This is actually seeming decent as is in my opinion, I've seen what 2V-R8 can do buffed out with Cybertech, pretty good healer in my opinion after that - so it's a decent crafting skill with that being done.

 

Synthweaving/Armormech: Personally haven't worked much with this one, so I can't give a solid answer on what would make it better.

 

Armstech: This crew skill is missing a lot. Even artifice has the ability to create more then just the hilts and some interesting weapons at end game. Barrel upgrades are only good until level 49: level 50 you just do dailies and get upgrades that surpass that. Even every guide I read actually almost deters you away from taking this craft. The only thing you might be able to make at level 50 is the Orange weapon variants at best. There needs to be more to this craft, so much more to make it desirable.

[Gillrien]

I read your statement about rebalancing pvp gear George and I couldn't help but feel upset.

 

Here is another suggestion/ solution rather than nerfing end game pvp gear, just give the new 50s some BLUE pvp gear to buy!

 

I'm valor rank 68. have done nothing but play your warzones for the past month and half.

 

if you nerf end game PVP gear just to bring us down a few notches so that new level 50s wearin greens and blues can beat us then its just not right.

 

 

it's like you are punishing those who really put in the time & like to play that aspect of the game(pvp) to appease new level 50s and casual pvpers.

 

there will always be a gap between new 50s and old ones. As I'm sure you know, it's called Progression, naturally those who have gear will outmatch/outshine those with only leveling/questing loot.

 

I used to pvp like you, then I took an Ilum in the knee. Having almost every imperial on my server afk in a day what took me weeks of non stop grinding to get took the drive out completely.. I'm not convinced that they'll get even half the people who did it with the case by case thing.

 

Anyways back on subject.. Armstech's in desperate need of help still .

[JeramieCrowe]

I have never seen anyone with a full rakata set on my server.

 

I have seen some, but VERY few. And these are usually people that are not taking advantage of the other 7 storylines, and are seriously missing out. You know, one of the stated endgame activities by BioWare?

 

I, for one, don't feel sorry for them that they already have it 6 weeks out from launch. Same old story, different MMO: People rushrushrush to endgame, missing half the content, refusing to partake of most of the other half, then sit and complain there's nothing to do when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

More power to you all doing this, though. The players and the devs see right through it.

[Dray]

Most players "engage in the crafting economy" to make money. Inconsistency is the BANE of commerce. Fix what you want to fix overnight, but you act like promising changes in the future makes crafters happy. IT PISSES US OFF. Changing the rules in the middle of the game isn't right. Fix what you're going to fix then back off. All this diddling is why people aren't crafting, NOT failures in the crafting system itself. CONSISTENCY PLEASE.

[Chromiie]

I have seen some, but VERY few. And these are usually people that are not taking advantage of the other 7 storylines, and are seriously missing out. You know, one of the stated endgame activities by BioWare?

 

Rolling an alt is not endgame. I have 2/5 Rakata gear myself and I'm leveling an Agent (34) and Bounty Hunter (28) are you saying I must have rushed? Frankly the game is too damn easy and gives gear our to fast.

[Chromiie]

You apparently have not seen WoW crafting which was a series of tedious mouse-clicks sometimes semi-automated by addons.

 

And TOR's is any different?

 

Infact TOR can learn from WoW in this.

 

Each profession in WoW rewards the player consistently. Burning Crusade introduce profession specialization, Lich King introduced the really good stuff like enchanters can buff their rings, Sribes can get the best shoulder enchants etc. No one professions was say better than the other hell even the gathering professions had something herbalism had a healing spell, Mining had a health buff and skinning had a crit buff.

 

No profession in WoW is self sufficient. There is nothing social about the crafting in Old Republic. No I am not saying it's more social in WoW but if I wanna make some potions I eventually need some fishing materials, if I wanna smith something I eventually need a potion. Crew Skills however do not require players to interact with each other or even the GTN. If I wanted to I can level with out ever having to use scavenged metal for my Heavy Synthweave armor.

 

There is a reason everyone eventually goes Biochem and that is because it rewards the players. It's not only useful for Ops but also leveling. A reusable medkit is fantastic and a reusable adrenal/stim are just great for when you start running flashpoints.

 

Artifice/Armstech make mods at lower levels that's fine and useful to a point but once you reach level 50 you can do several day of Ilum/Belsavis dailies and get 23 mods which are better than any crafted mods. Why Artifice/Armstech couldn't have I don't know something similar to WoW's jewelcrafting is beyond me. If you don't know what I mean as a JC in WoW you can make 3 gems to socket in your gear that are better than any other gem you can make you must have jewel crafting to use them and you can only ever have three. I'd be perfectly fine with that in TOR.

 

Synthweaving/Armormech have the same problems and again I'll use WoW as an example. I had a Leathworker and Tailor in WoW. The leatherworker could make armor enhancements for legs and as a LW you could make even better armor enchancements for both bracers and leg pieces. As a tailor you could do the same but was more for caster classes.

 

Like I said I don't think Blizzard crafting system is very good but for a themepark MMO it does a good at remaining useful from level 1-85 and does a great job for rewarding the player.