Kolbenito Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 PvP gear is for PvP wannabes. The posters claiming otherwise are the incompetent players who absolutely require that gear advantage in order to claim that their "skill" is what's netting them wins, and not some stats advantage from gear they "earned" with exploits, kill trades or a system that rewards you even when you lose... This is why I shouldn't read or post in threads like this. UMPTEEN pages of discussion about this and some guy still says "You just wanna have better gear and pwn noobs!" Yeah dude, that is totally all I care about, pwning bads in greens. You got me. FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I get it dude, you don't like Apple and you like to feel better than anyone that made different choices than you by belittling them as sheep it's cool you can go back to talking about something else now. You mean, like the thread topic, and like 95% of my original post which you ignored, only for YOU to call out my one sentence reference to apple? Got ya. Edited February 1, 2012 by Jebi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtshiz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Except, half the threads here are 'can't get my gear bags so I'm rage quitting!' or, 'I got all my gear, nothing to do, quitting'. People may SAY they don't like gear systems- but most people will leave without a carrot. Blame it on people being dumb- pvp should be for the sake of pvping. Ah well, I enjoy the game anyway, and it's not too hard to get gear. Who is to say that the carrot needs to be pvp gear though? The carrot can be anything that increases e-peen and people will stick around. ex. titles, cosmetic gear, mounts, etc. Pvp gear progression only raises the barrier of entry and is not good for sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The MAJORITY of MMO's playerbase want gear progression. They want to gain str through gear, and then impose their str on the less geared / less skilled. It is an MMO, where YOU become the HERO at the expense of others......... Competitive gaming exists at the end of the gear progression, everything prior to the END of the content is not competitive, its the grind..... All the crying for equal stats ALREADY exists.......its called full battlemaster vs full battlemaster. the competetive player couldnt care less what the majority wants. the majority = valorcows, nothing more rly. their opinion was, is and always will be invalid and therefor irrelevant. if bioware doesnt understand that, the game will never be even remotely competitive. if they dont want to make the game competitive thats fine, guild wars 2 is coming soon anyway and we competitive players can move on to a game that appears to be more suited for the real players that seek challenge in competing vs each other on a playfield where skill actually matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You mean, like the thread topic, and like 95% of my original post which you ignored, only for YOU to call out my one sentence reference to apple? Got ya. Wow dude, let it go will you. You win, you're awesome and a full on righteous dude. Live your life or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Edited wrong thread Edited February 1, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameNirvana Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 the competetive player couldnt care less what the majority wants. the majority = valorcows, nothing more rly. their opinion was, is and always will be invalid and therefor irrelevant. if bioware doesnt understand that, the game will never be even remotely competitive. if they dont want to make the game competitive thats fine, guild wars 2 is coming soon anyway and we competitive players can move on to a game that appears to be more suited for the real players that seek challenge in competing vs each other on a playfield where skill actually matters. this is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 the competetive player couldnt care less what the majority wants. the majority = valorcows, nothing more rly. their opinion was, is and always will be invalid and therefor irrelevant. if bioware doesnt understand that, the game will never be even remotely competitive. if they dont want to make the game competitive thats fine, guild wars 2 is coming soon anyway and we competitive players can move on to a game that appears to be more suited for the real players that seek challenge in competing vs each other on a playfield where skill actually matters. Totally agree. To lazy to grind gear so I'm going to cry on the forums About how gear equals no skill to make myself feel better I already have pieces of Battlemaster and am well past the soft cap. I've actually started to take gear off and fit some better looking PVE gear for fun these last few days, helps to take a mod out of a PVP level 40 Lightsaber and stick that into something orange and better looking. Grinding gear doesn't even slightly bother me. Gear still == no skill, it's nothing more than a crutch that means nothing when everyone has it (because it alters damage, resistance and healing all in one) and just allows bad PVPers to kill un-geared PVPers without needing to be any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBK Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't think anyone will deny that PvP requires a carrot to drive it. The problem is just that you can't put the cart before the horse - you need to be able to enjoy PvP in the first place to be convinced a grind is worthwhile. If you hit 50 and are immediately crushed into the floor due to lack of gear, you are unlikely to have the necessary fun to want to keep going. Maybe you'll PvE instead, maybe you'll roll an alt, maybe you'll just quit. All bad outcomes for the PvP community. As time goes on the skill gap between a new player and an old one gets bigger, when you add a vast gear gulf as well it's very hard to sell a new guy on why he should spend 100 hours of his life getting made to eat floor in order to have a chance of actually competing evenly and enjoying himself. What's so wrong about making the carrot something that doesn't give you an advantage in the competition? There's plenty of things people strive for in the game that aren't directly beneficial, from comsetic gear to mounts to titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtshiz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What's so wrong about making the carrot something that doesn't give you an advantage in the competition? There's plenty of things people strive for in the game that aren't directly beneficial, from comsetic gear to mounts to titles. *cough* guild wars 2 *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There are ways to let gear matter but not make it overwhelming. Just make the differences smaller. Then make the best gear in the game really shiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceasaigh Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Gear progression is one thing gear gaps because of faction imbalances is another. One side can not get the gear because the other side is over geared. There needs to be a balance struck so Warzones are competitive not one sided smear fests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameNirvana Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If they leave gear in but simply make it shiny then you'll have your grinders complaining that they grind for nothing....even though they could just go grind gear in PvE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caultonpos Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The majority of gear grinders afk in warfronts. Personally I hate warzones, but I do them to get pvp action. I like open world pvp. I like to be rewarded over time from doing a lot of pvp because otherwise there is no carrot for doing pvp. If you want equal pvp and constant warzones go play a first person shooter and dont play MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharst Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I have yet to see any statistics that back up your claim. I had a HUGE thread in the Beta PVP forums with a poll about how effective people wanted gear to be in PVP. It was overwhelmingly in favor of gear having as little impact on PVP as possible. PVEers want gear progression. Real PVPers don't need it, at least not to the level of gearflation stupidity that it gets taken in some games that think they are making good PVP. I tend to agree with the poster's assessment, which is why folks who are casual about PVP- can expect to lose 99% of the time vs those who do it consistently, esp near and at Cap. It's not gear per ce- it's the PVP stat that kills my interest. Raid Gear or PVP Gear... should be the same stats- the only difference is how you go about getting it. Both require time and effort. There will still be folks who will be less geared; but as it's set up... with a finite time to play... if I want to win at PVP... then I have to spend all my time at it to get the PVP stat gear to be competitive- to reach "Full battlemaster vs Full Battlemaster". If I want to Raid... which inevitably involves a different set of gear... then I have to spend most of my time doing PvE content. I just don't have time to do both- in truth I can barely manage one. Edited February 2, 2012 by Dharst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yeah I understand that, and China has had various issues with content in WoW over the years. The latest numbers I have heard are .... and They mention China, but not 4 million subscribers worth. That is from just prior to SWTOR's retail release. I don't buy that china makes up 40% of subscribers or whatever semantics we are using to equal "people who pay to play the game". Just saying. If there is an MMO that competes with FPS for Money earned, it is definitely without a shadow of a doubt WoW. You don't believe that China, who has 2 billion people, has 40% of the WoW market compared to the US which is looming at a massive 311mil? uhm... Actually China has been about 60% of WoW's sub count since the first asian server opened. This is pretty average for any MMO that also launches in China. US falls second, Euro's fall in 3rd in there total percentage of subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameNirvana Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The majority of gear grinders afk in warfronts. Personally I hate warzones, but I do them to get pvp action. I like open world pvp. I like to be rewarded over time from doing a lot of pvp because otherwise there is no carrot for doing pvp. If you want equal pvp and constant warzones go play a first person shooter and dont play MMOs. I actually prefer World PvP thank you. And how about people quit incessantly dividing the two game types. PvP is PvP regardless of what type of game you put it in. FPS is just the only type that has gotten it right so far. MMO has a lot of potential to overtake FPS as the main PvP if they would just learn how to implement it in the game properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I tend to agree with the poster's assessment, which is why folks who are casual about PVP- can expect to lose 99% of the time vs those who do it consistently, esp near and at Cap. It's not gear per ce- it's the PVP stat that kills my interest. Raid Gear or PVP Gear... should be the same stats- the only difference is how you go about getting it. Both require time and effort. There will still be folks who will be less geared; but as it's set up... with a finite time to play... if I want to win at PVP... then I have to spend all my time at it to get the PVP stat gear to be competitive- to reach "Full battlemaster vs Full Battlemaster". If I want to Raid... which inevitably involves a different set of gear... then I have to spend most of my time doing PvE content. I just don't have time to do both- in truth I can barely manage one. mmos are a timesink. always were and always will be. u can remove some of it by removing the grind for gear like gw2 does. but if u dont spent alot of time pvping u will still lose 99% of the time simply because u lack the expirience. no matter how u turn things the result remains the same. if u wanna be at the top of the food chain u cant afford to have a life. if u decide to have a life u gotta live with the fact that the hardcore pvpers will eat u for breakfast. nothing will ever change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I tend to agree with the poster's assessment, which is why folks who are casual about PVP- can expect to lose 99% of the time vs those who do it consistently, esp near and at Cap. It's not gear per ce- it's the PVP stat that kills my interest. Raid Gear or PVP Gear... should be the same stats- the only difference is how you go about getting it. Both require time and effort. There will still be folks who will be less geared; but as it's set up... with a finite time to play... if I want to win at PVP... then I have to spend all my time at it to get the PVP stat gear to be competitive- to reach "Full battlemaster vs Full Battlemaster". If I want to Raid... which inevitably involves a different set of gear... then I have to spend most of my time doing PvE content. I just don't have time to do both- in truth I can barely manage one. Blizzard talks about allowing players to do whatever they want with whatever they have in the next expansion of WoW. I assume they mean raid in PVP gear if that is how you want to do it, or PVP in raid gear. They probably plan to do something with base character stats or something they really haven't said what they mean yet. All of this comes down to how hard or how easy it is to get the gear. If it was mailed to you when you ding 50 that would be a bit ridiculous. If it takes weeks of warzones and complete luck that is ridiculous too. If it took you two weeks to get your BM set playing 12 hours a week with a 50% win ratio that would not be too much of a grind. That is really what needs to happen so the game can move on to more meaningful PVP. I have a feeling that Rated Warzones will bring a change like this since nobody will give a **** about it if it's just geared vs. ungeared slaughters. For anyone to take it seriously the gear will have to be obtainable to anyone who wants to participate... Blizzard finally realized this after some bad calls over a few arena season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Gear progression is one thing gear gaps because of faction imbalances is another. One side can not get the gear because the other side is over geared. There needs to be a balance struck so Warzones are competitive not one sided smear fests. There is no gear gap because of faction. Republic get just as much gear at the same rate of Sith. Just because all the PvP guilds went Sith and destroy you, doesn't mean there is a balance issue. Its the perk of the Warzone, same amount of players (excluding the one bug), and rapid availability for Republic because there are so many Sith competing for a fight. Huttball only equalizes the field for the Sith player, but the Republic player still gets a queue whenever they want, where Sith players get Huttball and nothing but Huttball for sometimes 10+ games in a row. Now more people spread across a total get gear, but no one earns it at a higher rate then that other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) You don't believe that China, who has 2 billion people, has 40% of the WoW market compared to the US which is looming at a massive 311mil? uhm... Actually China has been about 60% of WoW's sub count since the first asian server opened. This is pretty average for any MMO that also launches in China. US falls second, Euro's fall in 3rd in there total percentage of subs. You are the first person I have ever seen make this claim. Maybe you are right. Again, do you have a link or something to back these numbers up? Edited February 2, 2012 by Kolbenito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There is no gear gap because of faction. Republic get just as much gear at the same rate of Sith. Just because all the PvP guilds went Sith and destroy you, doesn't mean there is a balance issue. Its the perk of the Warzone, same amount of players (excluding the one bug), and rapid availability for Republic because there are so many Sith competing for a fight. Huttball only equalizes the field for the Sith player, but the Republic player still gets a queue whenever they want, where Sith players get Huttball and nothing but Huttball for sometimes 10+ games in a row. Now more people spread across a total get gear, but no one earns it at a higher rate then that other. just that its alot easier to get ilum daily/weekly done on empire side. u can go there at any point solo and get it done np. pubs need to bring alot of ppl to clean the place from the 30 imps that fight over the rockets first xd so yeah it IS easier to gear up on imp side. i have both lvl 50 imp and lvl 50 pub char so i can judge that pretty well. but the difference is not that big because its only been a month..... so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You are the first person I have ever seen make this claim. Maybe you are right. Again, do you have a link or something to back these numbers up? http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/how-much-money-blizzard-is-really-making-from-10-million-subscri/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/how-much-money-blizzard-is-really-making-from-10-million-subscri/ Fair enough. They still have 10 million people "paying" to play the game. I don't actually recall what the original comment was but it said something like only half the people who play wow actually pay for it or something which is not the same thing as this article is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalawaJoko Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) The MAJORITY of MMO's playerbase want gear progression. They want to gain str through gear, and then impose their str on the less geared / less skilled. It is an MMO, where YOU become the HERO at the expense of others......... Competitive gaming exists at the end of the gear progression, everything prior to the END of the content is not competitive, its the grind..... All the crying for equal stats ALREADY exists.......its called full battlemaster vs full battlemaster.Guild Wars beats you. Sorry had to say it Edited February 2, 2012 by PalawaJoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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