True Competition Throughout History Shows Gear PvP Is Wrong

[defileabowl]

Professional athletes spend years of their life training and learning their trade. Which would be your so called "grind". Anyone that say's PvP isin't skill based read this to put it into perspective. if you have your toon that you have been playing for 2 months and know well with full battle master gear and u say allow someone whos never played your class log on and PvP will they do as well as you? No. Now if u have just recently gotten full battle master gear only playing for 2 months most likely you woulnt be as effective as someone who has say been playing for 4.

[Lord_Infernus]

even your tl;dr is tl;dr

[JBloom]

Completely agree with the very well written post of the OP.

 

 

 

The incentive is fun.

 

Fun is subjective. What's fun for you may not be fun for me. If you enjoy competing simply to compete then that's fine. I personally don't care for competing unless I'm going to get something material out of it. In the case of MMOs it's gear.

[Kryptorchid]

your argument fails, in modern sports competitions, say soccer, money dictates who wins.

whoever has the most money can buy the best players, gets the best training equipment and trainers etc...

 

other then that, this is a computer game with classes with different abilties and to some extent a rock/paper/scissors mechanic which makes your argument even more flawed.

 

Salary caps say, "hi!"

[malacanth]

Good God, watching some of you blather crushes my faith in mankind. "Gear progression" /= "any edge for one player over another." Equipment is standardized so that we don't have a goaltender wearing mattresses in hockey, or boxers getting in bare-knuckle fights to hurt more. Such regulations encourage a certain type of playstyle while protecting the health of the athletes. Those like Cruxe, who have pointed out that providing superior equipment is a multi-billion dollar industry are right. But they're only half-right: players can improve their own bodies dramatically through proper nutrition and training. The effect of this will be determined by discipline, but also by genetics- which cannot be appealed and cannot be granted by money (yet). To say that professional sports are fairer than SWTOR PVP is so superficial it's laughable. Here skill and gear count, as opposed to skill and genetic/ trained ability.

 

Now to be sure, PVP gear currently gives a massive advantage for older players against new players. Yes, the Champion/ Battlemaster RNG is terrible and about a hundred other things about the gear system need to be changed. The general aim of such a system should be to get regular PVP players, the ones who are actually skilled, in good gear so that their abilities can wipe out mouthbreathers. You know, the guys who simply claim their skills are leet, bow down, I got 50 yesterday but I'd be better than you if our gear was equal. The reward system will give an advantage, but not an insurmountable one, to players to improve the power of their skills so that skill and power combined can wipe out players who aren't at the same practice level. If you don't like that, play less hours over more days to eventually get the rewards, or stay in the Bronze Division or whatever inevitable bracket system we come up with.

 

A meaningful reward shouldn't rely on trivial titles or "bragging rights" to stimulate interest in PVP. People will be much less likely to subscribe to the game, because their many hours a day of effort isn't -actually- being rewarded, and people who aren't stupid can immediately judge that. A fresh coat of paint for your speeder or being called Almighty Battle God only impresses the pathetically credulous. And if you don't like that, why are you playing any MMO at all?

 

tldr: if you are incapable of reading that, as opposed to simply not caring, you're a low-attention simpleton. If you don't care, you didn't read it, so what is the point of these stupid little postscripts?

[Idockdudes]

need a TL;DR for the TL;DR

 

I was going to post something similar.

[GameNirvana]

Competitive gaming != Casual gaming. I'm paying to play, not being paid to play.

 

One of the methods of getting people to continue to pay to play is by giving them something for their time. Some people like the gratification of more competitive gameplay. That's great. Go play a game that suits your style. SC2, HoN, Bloodline Champions, they exist.

 

L2Read. I clearly stated many ways BW can satisfy everyone at once.

[GameNirvana]

I was going to post something similar.

 

ik ik. It's really hard to discuss something of this magnitude properly w/o leaving out important **** which will then allow people to say the argument fails just because I didn't go in depth enough.

[GameNirvana]

There, I've tried to edit down the TL;DR.

[FunkBandit]

TL;DR at bottom. Money issue regrettably also is discussed at bottom even though it's completely off topic and irrelevant.

 

Humans by nature are competitive. It gives us something to do, something to work for. It's entertaining. There is a reason we have developed sports to compete in against each other for thousands of years. Now, if you look at the formula for how sports have been set up, you will see it's been successful for thousands of years, and they have netted billions upon billions of monies in the process.

 

I'm going to go over a few prime sport examples and prove that there is not a single wildly popular or successful sport that allows any type of "gear-progression" (a.k.a any edge for one player over another). Every player in their designated sport has equal access to everything their opponent does. This will illustrate why BW was erroneous in deciding to make PvP a grind, and why they need to look at games prior to WoW for good PvP examples.

 

Let's start with Football, because this is AmURica! Okay, look at the highest level of football - NFL. Not one single player is rewarded by better gear (a.k.a. better gloves, cleats that make you faster than your opponent, steroids, etc...) because of how much work they put into it. Just because Peyton Manning and Tom Brady "grind" every day of their lives doesn't mean they are rewarded with an edge over the competition. They are expected to play against the best of the best on an even playing field every single game. In fact, they are such competitors that this is exactly the way they want it. They want to beat the best of the best on equal grounds. Obviously, some players use steroids, but this is illegal. Whadda ya know? Something that gives one player an edge over another is illegal? Great setup NFL. We all know the NFL does billions of dollars worth of business every year. The Superbowl will be watched by millions upon millions of people in this country alone at the end of this week. Throw "gear progression" into the NFL and it turns into the haves vs the have nots and the whole things is worthless.

 

Soccer next because it's a worldwide sport that is one of the oldest. Soccer nets money all around the world and has some of the fiercest rivalries I've ever seen over in Europe. Are players allowed to wear shoes that would give them an unfair advantage over another player...say shoes with jetpacks? No. Everyone again has access to the same equipment. Everyone is on the same, level playing field. This is how competition is supposed to be. Throw "gear-progression" into this sport and it fails.

 

Basketball; yet another sport that nets billions of dollars every single year. Every year people watch these amazing athletes work hard to try to be the best. There are no shoes that allow one player an advantage over another (unless you believe MJ shoes will make you fly). Every player has access to the same shoes. Their jerseys are all identical in structure. Their goals are identical, and their courts are standardized as well. The only difference in one teams ability to win vs another is their skill. Why do these players not need rewarded better gear to prevent boredom? Because going up against good players isn't boring. Competition is fun. Throw "gear" into this system and it fails.

 

Boxing. Boxing is the great 1v1 sport that has been successful. I don't watch boxing, but I know many of us want to see Manny vs Floyd this year. Again, this sport is standardized. They have gloves, shorts, and a ring. There is no advantage one guy has over another with the exception of his skill. Load up your gloves with some metallic structure that gives you an advantage? Sorry, that's illegal. You get DQ for that. There is no advantage allowed, and the winner are not rewarded an advantage for winning. There is no "gear-progression" in this sport either. Why do people get their faces knocked in match after match if they aren't rewarded something that will make them better? Because it's FUN. Competition is FUN. Not unfair competition.

 

Oh yeah, and it's also a shame BW never looked at Boxing from the start because it was obvious from day one that a lightweight shouldn't be up against a heavyweight - just like a level 10 shouldn't be anywhere near a level 50...let alone a geared level 50.

 

Olympics. It's pretty well known that in every one of these olympic sports there isn't a single advantage allowed by one player over another player. Yet, people from all over the world send teams that compete and grind every day of their lives just to win this event every 4 years. Nuff said.

 

Video games who have used true competition in their PvP and been successful? Oh idk, look at CoD, Halo, Goldeneye, DAoC, etc... I never would have imagined BW could pass up so many good examples and choose the worst one ever...WoW.

 

Why will BW's system of Gear Progression fail? It will fail because it is giving certain players an unfair advantage over other players, and it ruins the true spirit of competition. Unfair competition is not fun for anyone. Give LeBron James a wrist contraption that allows him to make 70% of all his jump shots regardless of where he is on the floor, and even Kobe Bryant will walk away from that challenge because he knows it's stupid. Let's say the NY Giants have played more games and thus are awarded NFL-provided-steroids for the Superbowl. You think the Patriots will show up? No. They'd probably sue the league.

 

Suggestions:

 

1) Unfair advantage must go if you want true competition.

 

2) You really want token economy in PvP that badly? Fine, offer rewards that have no impact on the competition. You wanna grind? There are always players that love the grind. PvE should be grind, and then grind for more mounts or cooler looking gear...nothing that gives you an advantage over another player.

 

3) Oh, you want something to work towards?

 

First off, work towards being better.

 

Secondly, we need PvP that has a large impact on the galaxy we live in. I am willing to say that this is what every PvPer is most excited to partake in. Everyone wants to compete for their faction.

 

Third, give the uber competitors even more to do in PvP. Give us the ability to set up tournaments: team v team, guild v guild. Give us something to do that yields bragging rights. Make it a huge deal. Set up a playoff system that will lead up to a annual "superbowl" match that lasts a few rounds on the given WZs available. Give us something to get excited about.

 

4) Start looking at DAoC and the rewards PvP yielded those players. Start looking for other games that have offered great rewards w/o rewarding unfair advantage over other players.

 

5) Maybe even do something like the thread about "A universe at war" suggested. People keep bumping that thread to make sure you see it BW, so take a look.

 

6) Stop copying WoW. NOW! WoW PvP blows. It has poisoned the minds of millions of players who have never experienced better PvP.

 

 

TL;DR - All true competition throughout history, thousands of years, has never allowed players to have an advantage over another player and been wildly successful. As a result, players play because they love competition, and even w/o rewards that give them advantages over other players they still compete. Look at NFL Football, Soccer, Basketball, Boxing, etc. are all standardized. You are simply not allowed to anything that another player is not also allowed. Do you see wearing better gloves than another receiver? No, they all have equal access. Yet people watch and play these sports day in and day out every year because they are simply fun. Video games that have been successful w/ true competition: halo, CoD, Goldeneye, DAoC, etc...

 

Perfect example of why PvP in SWTOR isn't fun? Give LeBron James a wrist device that allows him to make at least 70% of all his jump shots, and even Kobe Bryant would walk away from that challenge. Let the NFL reward the NY Giants for hypothetically playing more games by giving them steroids for the Superbowl? I'm willing to bet the Patriots wouldn't show up, and they'd probably sue the league. Unfair PvP isn't fun

 

Suggestions are just above the TL;DR ^^^

 

**Edit** I didn't want to have to go into money b/c it's pointless but here goes. Short and sweet w/o getting too much into the philosophical aspects of it all.

 

To those of you who say this argument fails because of money, you're wrong. Before I get into it, regardless of money and whatever unfair advantages you think it brings, I'm willing to bet that millions of people will watch the Superbowl this weekend. Millions will watch the NBA Finals. Millions maybe even a billion will watch the World Cup. And millions of people will watch the Olympics this year too. That's called success, and that's more people than all the MMOs put together. That's a good system. It's called fair competition.

 

1) First off, money is a RL issue, not an issue we have to worry about in game. Thus, money is completely irrelevant to the point of this thread. Sports are competitive w/ or w/o money.

 

2) Money affects Leagues, not the sports themselves. Soccer may have some rich teams (idk if it's true cuz I hate soccer), but it is the most popular sport worldwide. It nets billions of monies worldwide, and if you want to say it isn't competitive or successful just because one league may have some rich teams, then you're wrong.

 

3) Rich teams use money to buy more skilled players, not to buy unfair advantages w/in the sport itself. This is yet another reason why money is a League issue, not a sport issue.

 

4) Money as a motivator: Speak for yourself and no one else. You can't say Dwyane Wade or any other athlete only plays for the money. All I know is that I don't get paid to play, and I still watch sports and play them for my own pleasure. I also play other competitive games for my own pleasure. Look at the millions of players who play CoD every day. Are they getting paid? Thus, one can assume that sports are competitive and successful since millions of people watch and play sports every day when they neither get paid to play nor get paid to watch.

 

5) Last but not least, money doesn't guarantee success. Miami Heat lost in the Finals last year. St. Louis Cards won the World Series. Yankees don't win every year despite their huge pockets. Lakers got swept last year. Green Bay won the Superbowl. Money does affect Leagues, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

 

 

Hi!

Your post sucks.

Your opinion sucks.

You have to much free time, which is funny that somone who blatantly has nothing to live for and could get pvp gear in a week would cry about this.

The pvp gear gap between cent and BM is not that bad.

[GameNirvana]

Re-edited the OP to make it more readable. Also added the link to Universe at War thread

[GameNirvana]

Hi!

Your post sucks.

Your opinion sucks.

You have to much free time, which is funny that somone who blatantly has nothing to live for and could get pvp gear in a week would cry about this.

The pvp gear gap between cent and BM is not that bad.

 

cool story bro

[Torleen]

TL;DR at bottom. Suggestions are above TL;DR. Money issue regrettably also is discussed at bottom even though it's completely off topic and irrelevant.

 

Before I get into it

Regardless of money and whatever unfair advantages you think it brings, I'm willing to bet that millions of people will watch the Superbowl this weekend. Millions will watch the NBA Finals. Millions maybe even a billion will watch the World Cup. And millions of people will watch the Olympics this year too. That's called success, and that's more people watching sports than those who will play all the MMOs put together. That's a good system. It's called fair competition.

 

Reasons Why This MMO Should Emulate Sport's Competition Mentality

 

Humans by nature are competitive. It gives us something to do, something to work for. It's entertaining. There is a reason we have developed sports to compete in against each other for thousands of years. Now, if you look at the formula for how sports have been set up, you will see it's been successful for thousands of years, and they have netted billions upon billions of monies in the process.

 

I'm going to go over a few prime sport examples and prove that there is not a single wildly popular or successful sport that allows any type of "gear-progression" (a.k.a any edge for one player over another). Every player in their designated sport has equal access to everything their opponent does. This will illustrate why BW was erroneous in deciding to make PvP a grind, and why they need to look at games prior to WoW for good PvP examples.

 

Let's start with Football, because this is AmURica! Okay, look at the highest level of football - NFL. Not one single player is rewarded by better gear (a.k.a. better gloves, cleats that make you faster than your opponent, steroids, etc...) because of how much work they put into it. Just because Peyton Manning and Tom Brady "grind" every day of their lives doesn't mean they are rewarded with an edge over the competition. They are expected to play against the best of the best on an even playing field every single game. In fact, they are such competitors that this is exactly the way they want it. They want to beat the best of the best on equal grounds. Obviously, some players use steroids, but this is illegal. Whadda ya know? Something that gives one player an edge over another is illegal? Great setup NFL. We all know the NFL does billions of dollars worth of business every year. The Superbowl will be watched by millions upon millions of people in this country alone at the end of this week. Throw "gear progression" into the NFL and it turns into the haves vs the have nots and the whole things is worthless.

 

Soccer next because it's a worldwide sport that is one of the oldest. Soccer nets money all around the world and has some of the fiercest rivalries I've ever seen over in Europe. Are players allowed to wear shoes that would give them an unfair advantage over another player...say shoes with jetpacks? No. Everyone again has access to the same equipment. Everyone is on the same, level playing field. This is how competition is supposed to be. Throw "gear-progression" into this sport and it fails.

 

Basketball; yet another sport that nets billions of dollars every single year. Every year people watch these amazing athletes work hard to try to be the best. There are no shoes that allow one player an advantage over another (unless you believe MJ shoes will make you fly). Every player has access to the same shoes. Their jerseys are all identical in structure. Their goals are identical, and their courts are standardized as well. The only difference in one teams ability to win vs another is their skill. Why do these players not need rewarded better gear to prevent boredom? Because going up against good players isn't boring. Competition is fun. Throw "gear" into this system and it fails.

 

Boxing. Boxing is the great 1v1 sport that has been successful. I don't watch boxing, but I know many of us want to see Manny vs Floyd this year. Again, this sport is standardized. They have gloves, shorts, and a ring. There is no advantage one guy has over another with the exception of his skill. Load up your gloves with some metallic structure that gives you an advantage? Sorry, that's illegal. You get DQ for that. There is no advantage allowed, and the winner are not rewarded an advantage for winning. There is no "gear-progression" in this sport either. Why do people get their faces knocked in match after match if they aren't rewarded something that will make them better? Because it's FUN. Competition is FUN. Not unfair competition.

 

Oh yeah, and it's also a shame BW never looked at Boxing from the start because it was obvious from day one that a lightweight shouldn't be up against a heavyweight - just like a level 10 shouldn't be anywhere near a level 50...let alone a geared level 50.

 

Olympics. It's pretty well known that in every one of these olympic sports there isn't a single advantage allowed by one player over another player. Yet, people from all over the world send teams that compete and grind every day of their lives just to win this event every 4 years. Nuff said.

 

Video games who have used true competition in their PvP and been successful? Oh idk, look at CoD, Halo, Goldeneye, DAoC, etc... I never would have imagined BW could pass up so many good examples and choose the worst one ever...WoW.

 

Why will BW's system of Gear Progression fail? It will fail because it is giving certain players an unfair advantage over other players, and it ruins the true spirit of competition. Unfair competition is not fun for anyone. Give LeBron James a wrist contraption that allows him to make 70% of all his jump shots regardless of where he is on the floor, and even Kobe Bryant will walk away from that challenge because he knows it's stupid. Let's say the NY Giants have played more games and thus are awarded NFL-provided-steroids for the Superbowl. You think the Patriots will show up? No. They'd probably sue the league.

 

Suggestions

 

1) Unfair advantage must go if you want true competition.

 

2) You really want token economy in PvP that badly? Fine, offer rewards that have no impact on the competition. You wanna grind? There are always players that love the grind. PvE should be grind, and then grind for more mounts or cooler looking gear...nothing that gives you an advantage over another player.

 

3) Oh, you want something to work towards?

 

First off, work towards being better.

 

Secondly, we need PvP that has a large impact on the galaxy we live in. I am willing to say that this is what every PvPer is most excited to partake in. Everyone wants to compete for their faction.

 

Third, give the uber competitors even more to do in PvP. Give us the ability to set up tournaments: team v team, guild v guild. Give us something to do that yields bragging rights. Make it a huge deal. Set up a playoff system that will lead up to an annual "superbowl" match that lasts a few rounds on the given WZs available. Give us something to get excited about.

 

4) Start looking at DAoC and the rewards PvP yielded those players. Start looking for other games that have offered great rewards w/o rewarding unfair advantage over other players.

 

5) Maybe even do something like the thread about "A universe at war" suggested. Th e link is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=234156

People keep bumping that thread to make sure you see it BW, so take a look.

 

6) Stop copying WoW. NOW! WoW PvP blows. It has poisoned the minds of millions of players who have never experienced better PvP.

 

 

TL;DR

All true competition throughout history, thousands of years, has never allowed players to have an advantage over another player and been wildly successful. As a result, players play because they love competition, and even w/o rewards that give them advantages over other players they still compete. Look at NFL Football, Soccer, Basketball, Boxing, etc. are all standardized. You are simply not allowed to anything that another player is not also allowed. Do you see wearing better gloves than another receiver? No, they all have equal access. Yet people watch and play these sports day in and day out every year because they are simply fun. Video games that have been successful w/ true competition: halo, CoD, Goldeneye, DAoC, etc...

 

Perfect example of why PvP in SWTOR isn't fun? Give LeBron James a wrist device that allows him to make at least 70% of all his jump shots, and even Kobe Bryant would walk away from that challenge. Let the NFL reward the NY Giants for hypothetically playing more games by giving them steroids for the Superbowl? I'm willing to bet the Patriots wouldn't show up, and they'd probably sue the league. Unfair PvP isn't fun

 

Suggestions are just above the TL;DR ^^^

 

**Edit** I didn't want to have to go into money b/c it's pointless but here goes. Short and sweet w/o getting too much into the philosophical aspects of it all.

 

To those of you who say this argument fails because of money, you're wrong.

 

1) First off, money is a RL issue, not an issue we have to worry about in game. Thus, money is completely irrelevant to the point of this thread. Sports are competitive w/ or w/o money.

 

2) Money affects Leagues, not the sports themselves. Soccer may have some rich teams (idk if it's true cuz I hate soccer), but it is the most popular sport worldwide. It nets billions of monies worldwide, and if you want to say it isn't competitive or successful just because one league may have some rich teams, then you're wrong.

 

3) Rich teams use money to buy more skilled players, not to buy unfair advantages w/in the sport itself. This is yet another reason why money is a League issue, not a sport issue.

 

4) Money as a motivator: Speak for yourself and no one else. You can't say Dwyane Wade or any other athlete only plays for the money. All I know is that I don't get paid to play, and I still watch sports and play them for my own pleasure. I also play other competitive games for my own pleasure. Look at the millions of players who play CoD every day. Are they getting paid? Thus, one can assume that sports are competitive and successful since millions of people watch and play sports every day when they neither get paid to play nor get paid to watch.

 

5) Last but not least, money doesn't guarantee success. Miami Heat lost in the Finals last year. St. Louis Cards won the World Series. Yankees don't win every year despite their huge pockets. Lakers got swept last year. Green Bay won the Superbowl. Money does affect Leagues, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

 

I love this post.

 

It's funny that some people would rather associate themselves with the losers who dope themselves up to "win" then with the real sportsmen.

[copasetic]

I agree 100% OP. I have always thought the best way to make PvP competitive again is to force players to use a set of standardized gear where the stats are itemized according to their class and spec. This instantly creates a level playing field for all players where the victors will be determined through skill, teamwork, and coordination. Throw in a good spectator mode and you'll have PvP players flocking to the game.

 

If you must have rewards for that "carrot on a stick" approach, the rewards need to be stuff that doesn't influence player stats in any way. Some examples include:

 

- Unique titles

- Unique mounts

- Unique looking one-of-a-kind gear that still has standardized stats

- Schematic recipes to create social/cosmetic gear

- Leaderboard stats

- Statue of top monthy/weekly players is created in middle of most popular city

 

There are many ways to motivate players to PvP through means other than gear.

Edited February 1, 2012 by copasetic

[iLLaDeLpHLife]

Just because you typed a novel doesn't make your point valid. I disagree completely and this is a horrible comparison

[GameNirvana]

Just because you typed a novel doesn't make your point valid. I disagree completely and this is a horrible comparison

 

just because you typed one sentence doesn't make you right. Good reasoning man

[Jestunhi]

Dear BW,

 

Please slap the MMO players across the face and cater to the niche market of hardcore pvp players.

 

I think this will be a great business decision for you!

[EternalFinality]

Fun is subjective. What's fun for you may not be fun for me. If you enjoy competing simply to compete then that's fine. I personally don't care for competing unless I'm going to get something material out of it. In the case of MMOs it's gear.

 

Everyone is playing a video game for fun. Everyone plays a multiplayer game for fun - whether you have fun simply playing a game or whether you only have fun winning a game.

[ccfire]

Sorry OP, your logic fails.

[GameNirvana]

Dear BW,

 

Please slap the MMO players across the face and cater to the niche market of hardcore pvp players.

 

I think this will be a great business decision for you!

 

L2read. This game can have grind and still have a non-grind PvP system. And since when is a vast network of PvP a niche market? I believe there are more people the last decade who have played Halo, CoD, Battlefield, DAoC, UO, and other good PvP games.

[SliggXx]

Athletes are the most altruistic people on earth. DUH.

 

 

/failhreadisfail

 

P.S. DaoC had bigger rewards for PVP, they just weren't gear-based, they were ability-based.

[ccfire]

L2read. This game can have grind and still have a non-grind PvP system. And since when is a vast network of PvP a niche market? I believe there are more people the last decade who have played Halo, CoD, Battlefield, DAoC, UO, and other good PvP games.

 

All of those games have gear progressions. DAOC, for example, had a PvE Gear Progression Whoever had all the Artifacts or Legendary Weapons won the fight 85% of the time.

[SliggXx]

All of those games have gear progressions. DAOC, for example, had a PvE Gear Progression Whoever had all the Artifacts or Legendary Weapons won the fight 85% of the time.

 

Honestly, PvE was so easily done in that game that it was a non-issue. the only real roadblock was realm rank and realm abilities.

[GameNirvana]

Honestly, PvE was so easily done in that game that it was a non-issue. the only real roadblock was realm rank and realm abilities.

 

^^ this

[Kanthric]

Also I throw formula 1 in to the mix....

 

Potentially a poor example if you're arguing against the OP - bear in mind that FIA often sets budget limits for the year ahead, and makes rulings on use of technology (or combinations of both).

 

This is designed precisely to avoid teams with large cash pools spending a fortune in an attempt to roflstomp the competition because;

 

a) It wouldn't make good viewing, particularly not if it continued into subsequent seasons, which would kill the sport's revenues

 

b) It risks creating a vicious circle where teams have to spend a fortune to keep competitive, which dramatically raises the risks of teams going bust and discourages new entrants

 

 

There are other ways to reward MMO players than giving them gear with more shiny numbers. And if gear with more shiny numbers is the goal then further tiering should be applied - in a similar vein to L10-49 being separated from L50s, you could (in principle) place characters who equip set bonuses for Champion or Battlemaster into their own L50 epic category for warzone queues.

 

At that point, the difference in gear would give smaller advantages and the gap would be more easily closed. It would also give a secondary bonus of separating 'top tier' players from more casual players, because you could opt into one of two sets of queues.

 

I'm not saying that this would be the right answer for TOR, but that type of approach is possible. The status quo in MMOs where gear-advantaged players at the top of the game have an inbuilt advantage over players with less playtime goes against the rules that most competitions apply to competitors.

 

I personally don't think that situation is ideal for PvP MMOs. And I remember how much frustration it caused in WAR when there was an early level gear-discrepancy between the dominant side and the losing side in PvP.