Jabbb Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I just got hit for 5.8k 3k 3k, by an operative. All 3 numbers were on my screen at the same time when it happened. I'm in heavy armour with 550 expertise. So yeah, nerf Operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reenolols Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Will these threads stop in 12 hours? Somehow I think one will still be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Heavy armor alone does not make you a tank. Edited January 31, 2012 by Campaigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I just got hit for 5.8k 3k 3k, by an operative. All 3 numbers were on my screen at the same time when it happened. I'm in heavy armour with 550 expertise. So yeah, nerf Operative. It's not like ops have armor pen or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) headline: burst dps class doing burst damage when his skills randomly crit! next week: a healer class caught healing Edited January 31, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuprabondAddict Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 and after that what hapened? leme guess.. you popd a shield, a knockback and spamed tracer missile on him til he died? becouse after those 3 skills.. (that crited on you..) he has nothing else to trow you that does decent damage.. i find myself using my autoatack sometimes becouse well.. everything has a 6-9 CD on operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halofax Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Proof? I mean seriously. Ops are overpowered but threads like this just make it seem like they arent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeloss Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 operatives are fine people just need l2p like always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 and after that what hapened? leme guess.. you popd a shield, a knockback and spamed tracer missile on him til he died? becouse after those 3 skills.. (that crited on you..) he has nothing else to trow you that does decent damage.. i find myself using my autoatack sometimes becouse well.. everything has a 6-9 CD on operatives No it's ok, the heavy armor will protect him. He needs not think of an intelligent strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenotagain Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Those numbers often like like 7k, 4k, 4k on me as an assassin. You know what I do with my elite skills when that happens? Die, because I have 14.5k hp. Burst damage is all well and good, and I don't want to see Ops nerfed into the ground. But making the damage a little more reasonable, is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zizzefex Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I just got hit for 5.8k 3k 3k, by an operative. All 3 numbers were on my screen at the same time when it happened. I'm in heavy armour with 550 expertise. So yeah, nerf Operative. That is 3 crits in a row. You will get hit that hard by ANYONE critting 3 times in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't understand why people keep making "nerf OPs" threads when they have already announced a nerf incoming in the next patch, which is in a few hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Those numbers often like like 7k, 4k, 4k on me as an assassin. You know what I do with my elite skills when that happens? Die, because I have 14.5k hp. Burst damage is all well and good, and I don't want to see Ops nerfed into the ground. But making the damage a little more reasonable, is a good idea. Please stop lying or throwing random numbers. Show some screen shots, unless you are somehow still playing the game unpatched to 1.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbb Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not sure why people are saying I need to learn to play. I'm just saying that 11.8k dmg in a stun is... a bit much? Yeah they don't have much left but I have 4k HP left, they CAN auto attack and kill me before I do 15k to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Please stop lying or throwing random numbers. Show some screen shots, unless you are somehow still playing the game unpatched to 1.1. even if the numbers were 5,2,2... the argument still has merit. people will undoubtably throw the "learn to play" - b ut really, what am i learning? No amount of skill on my part can prevent the damage, and then i start the fight, when im finally able to control my character again, at 35% hp while my opponent is at 100%. Even if he hits like a noodle, it doesnt matter, because i now have to out-damage him 3 to 1 to kill him. if i, say, get him off of me with a knockaway... he just stealths and re-opens on me for a 100% guaranteed kill, while i can do nothing, again, while my character is parked on the ground. Burst classes are fine, control classes are fine. It's when you combine them both that things get tricky. I dont want to see Ops neutered, but what they were capable of was overwhelming and removed skill from the equation - the skill of the victim didnt matter one bit if he couldnt ever control his character before he died. I dont know that the current nerf is the right answer, but something had to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Not sure why people are saying I need to learn to play. I'm just saying that 11.8k dmg in a stun is... a bit much? Yeah they don't have much left but I have 4k HP left, they CAN auto attack and kill me before I do 15k to them. Allow me to repost from my other thread. This assumes the Operative and the target are both of equal rank and gear (Champ/BM). In a hypothetical scenario where the Operative has 100% Crit, AND assuming the target is equally geared/skilled AND they do not have CC-Braker ready AND not defended by a any Shield/Guard: AB/HS = 4k Crit (can goto 5k-6k under specific conditions, with full cons/bio/buff/relic) BS = 3k Crit Shiv = 2.5k Crit Dots = 1.8k Crit TOTAL damage = 11.3k --- At this point the Knockdown is over and target can react. Typical BMs have around 16-18k HP at least, up to 23k HP, and they will still have around at least 7k-8k HP remaining, during which they can use a number of their utilities to defend themselves: Shield, CC, Knockback, Stealth, Vanish, Heal, Force Speed, etc, or simply turn around and kill the Operative in many cases, because the Operative simply cannot go toe-to-toe with any DPS class, [yes even at this HP deficit] and by the time they are out of energy anyway, and will hit back like a wet noodle. Also, it's very easy for all classes to make sure the Operative cannot go into Stealth again. Simply DOT him or apply any periodic effect. And if they do go into Stealth, a simple reactive AOE of any kind will flush them out of Stealth. Not to mention that some classes have anti-Stealth mechanics anyway. This is best case scenario which most often does not occur. If the Operative gets flushed out of Stealth before doing their Alpha Strike, OR if they do not crit, OR if target has CC-Breaker ready, OR is shielded/guarded, OR gets healed; if any of those happen, then this whole scenario goes out the window. One last thing I would like to add is the fact that pretty much everyone already know (and some admitted) that if they get the Operative out of stealth, they can kill him easily. This only proves that the only advantage an Operatives has is his Opener from Stealth. They really do not have anything else to offer aside from that burst from Stealth, and it only happens under certain conditions, that with a level playing field of gear and skill, it is not that much. PS: If you think Operative burst is bad, go up against a well played Pyro PowerTech and see what real inescapable burst really feels like. Edited January 31, 2012 by Treplos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Allow me to repost from my other thread. This assumes the Operative and the target are both of equal rank and gear (Champ/BM). In a hypothetical scenario where the Operative has 100% Crit, AND assuming the target is equally geared/skilled AND they do not have CC-Braker ready AND not defended by a any Shield/Guard: AB/HS = 4k Crit (can goto 5k-6k under specific conditions, with full cons/bio/buff/relic) BS = 3k Crit Shiv = 2.5k Crit Dots = 1.8k Crit TOTAL damage = 11.3k --- At this point the Knockdown is over and target can react. Typical BMs have around 16-18k HP at least, up to 23k HP, and they will still have around at least 7k-8k HP remaining, during which they can use a number of their utilities to defend themselves: Shield, CC, Knockback, Stealth, Vanish, Heal, Force Speed, etc, or simply turn around and kill the Operative in many cases, because the Operative simply cannot go toe-to-toe with any DPS class, [yes even at this HP deficit] and by the time they are out of energy anyway, and will hit back like a wet noodle. Great... what about snipers, or dps mercs, or marauders/sentinels.. Also, it's very easy for all classes to make sure the Operative cannot go into Stealth again. Simply DOT him or apply any periodic effect. And if they do go into Stealth, a simple reactive AOE of any kind will flush them out of Stealth. Not to mention that some classes have anti-Stealth mechanics anyway. I have never once had putting a DoT on an operative prevent them from restealthing. Ever. It's the VERY first thing i do when i see another character with an energy bar that isnt parked behind portable cover. I make sure to never let corrosive dart fall off. Ever. And it never prevents them from simply hitting (CLEANSE) before they hit (VANISH). This is best case scenario which most often does not occur. If the Operative gets flushed out of Stealth before doing their Alpha Strike, OR if they do not crit, OR if target has CC-Breaker ready, OR is shielded/guarded, OR gets healed; if any of those happen, then this whole scenario goes out the window. Try playing a sniper, where you dont hit any harder than that (and often significantly weaker than that) have none of that utility, and cant heal ourselves or stealth. Huh. You might have to.. assist the other dps, focus on soft targets... damn. rough life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Great... what about snipers, or dps mercs, or marauders/sentinels.. I have never once had putting a DoT on an operative prevent them from restealthing. Ever. It's the VERY first thing i do when i see another character with an energy bar that isnt parked behind portable cover. I make sure to never let corrosive dart fall off. Ever. And it never prevents them from simply hitting (CLEANSE) before they hit (VANISH). Try playing a sniper, where you dont hit any harder than that (and often significantly weaker than that) have none of that utility, and cant heal ourselves or stealth. Huh. You might have to.. assist the other dps, focus on soft targets... damn. rough life. I run against Snipers a lot, BM ones. If I get the jump on them and they do not have their cc-break ready, it's 60/40 chance for me to win. Once my the rotation is over, they have enough CC to keep me away long enough to crit me to death from range. But I have to say that out of all the classes, I think snipers are the weakest vs Operatives. Simply because you really on the safety of your range and portable shield, which we can circumvent. If you are a truthful player, you should admit that Shadows/Sins give you just as much trouble. Even though their initial burst is a bit lower, they can get back into your face after your knockback and just pummel you. PS: Mercs/Maras are much harder to kill than snipers. Knockbacks, Slows, CC, DOTs, Defensive utilies, you name it. I die all the time to good maras, even if they start at 40% HP. The same goes for good Troopers/Commandos. After I finish my rotation, they push me back/CC me; if my CC-breaker is on CD, I'm dead. If I break free and get in their face, their rotate with me and many times I die, cause their straight up damage is just that high. Edited January 31, 2012 by Treplos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Luvin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's more like stun, crit hit from behind, another stun, same thing, then as he's about to die he disappears only to repeat the cycle again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) It's more like stun, crit hit from behind, another stun, same thing, then as he's about to die he disappears only to repeat the cycle again. Sorry, try again. You cannot do get any hard CC for a while after the first knockdown: full resolve bar. Edited January 31, 2012 by Treplos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Luvin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry, try again. You cannot do get any hard CC for a while after the first knockdown: full resolve bar. Sorry the only PvP you can get on my server is with premade scoundrels so it all just blurs together when your getting ***** by 2 or 3 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you are a truthful player, you should admit that Shadows/Sins give you just as much trouble. Even though their initial burst is a bit lower, they can get back into your face after your knockback and just pummel you. As tough? No. Tough? yes. But its the lack of initial *control* + burst that brings the fight down to winnable. I dont start at such an HP deficit, and it's easier against them entrench up and just shoot their face in. I might not get lucky, or i might, but it's a lot less frustrating and hard to deal with. I'm also not worried about them ducing around a corner in Huttball and re-opening on me - again, because the initial burst is lower, im more likely to live. If i let an op get away after the initial opener and around a corner, once they stealth im dead for sure. Their opening being smaller also creates less healer pressure, meaning that despite their equivalent damage over the same period as an operative, means that i have a better chance to catch a heal from an alert teammate and live - far too often, ive died o nly to have the healer tell me "i just couldnt get the heal off in time, sorry". It does matter. PS: Mercs/Maras are much harder to kill than snipers. Knockbacks, Slows, CC, DOTs, Defensive utilies, you name it. I die all the time to good maras, even if they start at 40% HP. The same goes for good Troopers/Commandos. After I finish my rotation, they push me back/CC me; if my CC-breaker is on CD, I'm dead. If I break free and get in their face, their rotate with me and many times I die, cause their straight up damage is just that high. I think this is more of a sign that Mercs&Troops need some nerfs, too, than anything else. All things being equal, if i, as a sniper, set up across from a similarly geared merc, he's going to beat me almost 100% of the time if he has a pulse. He has all the damage i do.. and a ton of utility and survivability i dont. Like i said, i dont want to be see ops non-viable, but the current state of things (essentially you getting to play your character and them not, while you reduce them to almost nothing) wasnt fun for most and wasnt balanced. Im not a wizard, i cant say if this nerf is too much (i think it might be, and you need some back-end love) but it couldnt be left the way it was. Prepare to ride the bone for a while till things find a better equilibrium. At least you have a totally viable healing tree to fall back on. Know what i get? some more sub-par dps trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry, try again. You cannot do get any hard CC for a while after the first knockdown: full resolve bar. AFAIK, unless it was changed and not updated, Hidden Strike gives 800 resolve, not 1000. 1000 is a full bar.. but 800 is all that will display above someone's head. Im willing to believe it was changed and the datamining sites are out of date, but if they aren't.. it's not quite a full resolve bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 operatives are fine people just need l2p like always Right.... So what does someone doe to "learn to play" their way out of being three shot while on their face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Right.... So what does someone doe to "learn to play" their way out of being three shot while on their face? People don't get "three shot" or even killed within the stun unless they were badly wounded to begin with. Stop spreading lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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