Difference between false marketing and fraud.

[Enlaw]

False marketing laws, are not made for people who cant read. Its made for people who dont have the time to go in depth with regular day shoping, perhapes they have better things to do.

 

Imagine if you had to go to the store and buy everyday products, but sience false marketing laws where off and companies could do anything they wanted as long as it was in the fine print. Would take a full day to buy regular day to day merchendise cause you had to read all the fineprint and EUELA ect. Fresh tasty milk! The box says, in fine print it says they have bull semen in it, or you go buy a regular book, fine print says... by purchasing this book the author may sleep with your wife ect.

 

When i shop, and many others we want the product to deliver the basics in 2-3 lines to speed up the process of shopping, mixed with basic laws that makes sure you cant mislead with those few lines.

 

Wow..I mean..wow. So you buy food, and don't read the ingredients list? Just...wow. Labels and lists are there for a reason. It is your DUTY as a consumer to read them. By LAW, if they are printed, and you DIDN'T read them, you are at fault. Not the company that dilligently covered their asses legally.

 

 

wow

[ShadCougar]

From what I understand, they are stuffing a kitten into a puppy, then a puppy into a baby panda, and serving it for a great Sith Holiday celebration. I believe it is called Pupkittanda

 

 

I wonder when BioWare will just throw their hands up and say "Enough with the friggin' ingrates!"?

 

ANY access before the 20th... is EARLY access. I know, I know..it's akin to calculating the volume of fuel required for getting a rocket to the moon. But with a little effort, you too can figure it out!

 

Am I missing anything? Do kittens, puppies, and/or baby pandas die for every person who has to wait to the 20th to play?

[Ginerc]

This is a screenshot of the exact information and advertisement that was required to be clicked in order to even make it to the pre-order options. One couldn't, to the best of my knowledge, even begin the pre-order process without first coming to the screen captured in this picture.

 

http://www.askajedi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Screen-shot-2011-07-21-at-3.10.47-AM.jpg

 

Don't get me wrong - I understand that this is a very frustrating issue for some people. I'm just sharing my perspective that it seemed really obvious when I pre-ordered through their official website.

 

Not that on the page you linked to there is nothing expressed or implied to suggest how much early game access you were going to receive.

 

The oldest rule of commerce is CAVEAT EMPTOR; Let the buyer beware. Whenever you buy anything it is the responsibility of the buyer to understand what they are purchasing and what are the terms of the bargain.

 

That aside you are getting something for nothing. You aren't being charged for EGA; The five bucks comes out of your purchase price when you pick the game up.

 

Only in America would people who are getting something for free complain about the way that it is given to them.

 

Lack of reading comprehension on your part does not constitute deception on BioWare or EA's part.

[Desjani]

I'm just glad that I will be getting to finally play the game soon.

 

All of the ************ I read on the forums over the past couple of days was funny up to a point but I stopped yesterday with reading that crap.

 

Play the game or don't those people ************ and saying they are going to cancel their pre-orders

 

PLEASE DO IT NOW !!!

 

I don't wanna even meet you in game b/c ur gonna be whining there too.

 

Cya true players in game!

[Draperx]

really IMO most people don't really care, myself included, I just think everyone is bored and anxiuos so they are resulting to killing forum trolls instead of tatuine trolls or w/e

 

thats about the jist of it i reckon

 

soon as 20th comes round noone will care and it will all be about how 1 class etc is too op

[Duzu]

If you not happy stop buy pre-order and wait .

go play Releasedatum: 20 December 2011;)

[Plogg]

That link seems to be Biowares own, i can show you hundreds, maybe even thousands of sites that do not share that info, this is in Swedish mind you, but its from EA own store where i got mine, says nothing.

 

http://store.origin.com/store/eaemea/sv_SE/html/pbPage.SWTOR_SV/?sourceid=svswtornppc159841321

 

Det står att du får EGA när du har blivit tilldelat det, man kan se det om man trycker på frågetecknet.

 

Plus läs alltid längst ner

 

"*KUNDER SOM LÖSER IN DERAS FÖRHANDSBOKNINGSKODER VIA CODE REDEMPTION CENTER INNAN PRODUKTEN SLÄPPS KOMMER ATT KUNNA FÖRLADDA SPELKLIENTEN FÖR STAR WARS ™: THE OLD REPUBLIC™ INNAN DEN OFFICIELLA RELEASEN. ATT FÖRLADDA SPELET GER DIG INTE TILLGÅNG TILL SPELET. ATT FÖRHANDSBOKA SPELET GER DIG ENDAST MÖJLIGHET ATT FÅ ÅTKOMST TILL SPELETS TIDIGA SPELTILLGÅNGSPERIOD OCH DIN FÄRGADE KRISTALL. DEN TIDIGA SPELTILLGÅNGEN KAN VARA UPP TILL 7 DAGAR LÅNG. DEN TIDIGA SPELTILLGÅNGENS LÄNGD BEROR PÅ VILKET DATUM OCH I VILKEN TUR I ORDNINGEN DU LÖSTE IN DIN FÖRHANDSBOKNINGSKOD. FÖR ATT KUNNA FORTSÄTTA SPELA SPELET EFTER DEN TIDIGA SPELTILLGÅNGENS PERIOD MÅSTE DU LÖSA IN DIN OFFICIELLA PRODUKTREGISTRERINGSKOD VIA CODE REDEMPTION CENTER."

 

Sorry all for writing in swedish

[Staalker]

This is a screenshot of the exact information and advertisement that was required to be clicked in order to even make it to the pre-order options. One couldn't, to the best of my knowledge, even begin the pre-order process without first coming to the screen captured in this picture.

 

http://www.askajedi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Screen-shot-2011-07-21-at-3.10.47-AM.jpg

 

Don't get me wrong - I understand that this is a very frustrating issue for some people. I'm just sharing my perspective that it seemed really obvious when I pre-ordered through their official website.

 

You'd be wrong. You could pre-order from a retailer and never touch this website.

 

I am not defending the OP, just saying, people COULD order and not ever see those disclaimers...depending on where you order.

 

In fact, the Origin website is misleading. I say this and I work for EA support.

 

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/html/pbPage.SWTOR_NA?easid=Origin-SWTOR_Web_Hero_PreOrderNow

 

Read the banner. It clearly reads: Early Access has now started. Pre-order to play.

 

Now, the first line is 100% true, and the seocond is 100% true. But would you assume you had to wait if you read that and clicked through? No.

 

In fact, there is not even an * added leading you to the bottom of the page where it says "YOU MAY GET UP TO 7 DAYS", and that your entry is based upon your code redemption order.

 

There is nothing that leads you down there unless you just decide to scroll down.

 

That is misleading.

 

Sure, the text is there. It clearly explains it, or it should for anyone who hasn't gone full ******. But the fact is still that the banner misleads you into thinking that all you have to do is pre-order now and you are in.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Staalker

[criticalchris]

Wow..I mean..wow. So you buy food, and don't read the ingredients list? Just...wow. Labels and lists are there for a reason. It is your DUTY as a consumer to read them. By LAW, if they are printed, and you DIDN'T read them, you are at fault. Not the company that dilligently covered their asses legally.

 

 

wow

 

Yeah that pretty much covers it, i shop ALOT and like i said, i wouldnt have the time even if i wanted. Try spending 1000ish euro a week thru one maybe two hours of time and do 90% of the household and leisure shopping with a full time job and two companies to run. (dont bother shopping during recreational time/evenings).

[Siino]

There is still a chance that u may have upto 5 days EGA... if not definately 4 ... so quit whining and the "I ORDERED YESTERDAY GIMME MY EGA NOW!! I DEMAND IT" posts...

[criticalchris]

Again, the problem isnt just the "up to 5 days" ect. I assumed that "up to" was reserved for server faults and such, incase they cant up the servers on time and such. Even if i read it, i would assume that one millionish preorder clients would gain access in turn, for servers that are built for 20 million players, i assumed it would be HOURS between first and last player.

 

Not "waves" during few hours work time in the US ect.

[ShadCougar]

And we all know what happens when we assume.

Again, the problem isnt just the "up to 5 days" ect. I assumed that "up to" was reserved for server faults and such, incase they cant up the servers on time and such. Even if i read it, i would assume that one millionish preorder clients would gain access in turn, for servers that are built for 20 million players, i assumed it would be HOURS between first and last player.

 

Not "waves" during few hours work time in the US ect.

Edited December 15, 2011 by ShadCougar

[criticalchris]

And we all know what happens when we assume.

 

Well said!

[Khelien]

Again, the problem isnt just the "up to 5 days" ect. I assumed that "up to" was reserved for server faults and such, incase they cant up the servers on time and such. Even if i read it, i would assume that one millionish preorder clients would gain access in turn, for servers that are built for 20 million players, i assumed it would be HOURS between first and last player.

 

Not "waves" during few hours work time in the US ect.

 

Your assumptions are not BioWare's problems.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Khelien

[Enlaw]

Yeah that pretty much covers it, i shop ALOT and like i said, i wouldnt have the time even if i wanted. Try spending 1000ish euro a week thru one maybe two hours of time and do 90% of the household and leisure shopping with a full time job and two companies to run. (dont bother shopping during recreational time/evenings).

 

Oh! I get it now: You're busy. Whereas the rest of us aren't? lol.. I'm as busy as you, and still actually care what goes into my body. But my point was: If you DO buy milk with, as you put it, Bull Semen, in it...you are responsible. If you bought a car that had a disclaimer, however subtle, or small, stating it was prone to spontaneous combustion, you are responsible. The manufacturer, distributor, etc., of a product, having dilligently placed information informing the consumer of what they need to know, has done their due dilligence. Sure, some companies can get sneaky about it, or use double-tack, or clever phrasing. It's still up to the consumer to make a choice. And they can choose to dig deper, and find out, or just buy the product without reading labels, and deal with consequences.

 

No matter HOW "busy" they are...

[criticalchris]

Your assumptions are not BioWare's problems.

 

No **** Sherlock... Im rather discussing things that seem like im not the only one that have assumed when i pre ordered. Quick glance at the few thousand posts these last days shows that there are many that feel like i do.

[Dreamflying]

I understand what thread starter is saying, If I knew that if i bought the game in july/june I would get 7 days early game access, hell ye i would have bought it back then. Anyway all pre-orders will get on early access no problems, if not then it will be a big shock to me, a game like this with such hype. The potential loss in players is to high and to risky, to have a cheated feeling before you even create a character is'nt right.

 

Dont worry we will all get early access. As promised have faith, we all are desperate to play

[Naebie]

december never had a chance of 5 days from what i can tell so it was false advertising ... they said you had a chance of upto 5 days... with the statement MAY have UP TO this means you had a chance of upto 5 days... where if you ordered in december (up to yesterday you could still preorder with that same statement) you never had that chance, and that is why they are falsly advertising, ty and good night ps the ASA in the UK agree why do you think they added 2 more days of time well its because they paniced... and took the banner down when someone pointed out it was still up on twitter?

[ShadCougar]

That is interesting. I would love to see the link to that article/news story/ASA announcement? Because obviously you have proof of this?

 

the ASA in the UK agree why do you think they added 2 more days of time ?

 

 

They added two more days of time because things went well in the Beta. Are they being over cuatious? maybe. But I think they feel that the majority of the people who have preordered are the people that are going to be here for launch. I don't think they are gonna sell another 19 million games on the 20th.

[Daraina]

december never had a chance of 5 days from what i can tell so it was false advertising ... they said you had a chance of upto 5 days... with the statement MAY have UP TO this means you had a chance of upto 5 days... where if you ordered in december (up to yesterday you could still preorder with that same statement) you never had that chance, and that is why they are falsly advertising, ty and good night

 

But they did have a chance to play up to 5 days early. Even if it was just one or maybe two days early that is still "up to" 5 days early. "Up to 5 days early" means anything from 0 to 5 days early. Today marks 5 days until release so what the hell have people even been moaning about the last two days?

 

Most of us will probably get in today. most of us will probably get the whole 5 days of early access and I hope those that get in today who have spent days bitterly complaining about false advertising etc feel very stupid when they realize they that actually they got their 5 days of early access. Even if we don't get in until tomorrow there isn't really much to complain about. Other than the fact you could have pre-ordered earlier and got in sooner.

 

It was clearly stated on the website for ages that by pre-ordering you could have up to 5 days of early access and the sooner you entered your code higher up you would be on the list for early access. If people were not too lazy to read then mistakes like this would not happen.

[ExiledOne]

See the whole thing with legality and legal wording is, it typically does not help your defense in court.

 

Various things can be inferred or logically come to a conclusion via ambiguous terminology.

 

IE: Pre order and get up to five days access early.

 

A) Oh so I get at least five days, that's pretty good.

B) Okay so others get a few days more but I get five, alright.

C) I may not even get five, crap.

or

D) Hey I might get MORE than five!

 

It can go either way, except they never said "Pre order by [insert date here] to get five days", essentially December people are getting four days, and it's not even a full four days as it starts at 8am and ends at 11:59pm on Monday night.

 

One can also logically figure that they meant "Okay your pre order date will determine the order you gain access ON THE FIRST DAY", meaning everyone got five and they'd be running access waves 24/7 the first day to get everyone in.

 

Except they didn't mean any of that at all, and were not clear about it.

I suspect most would be happier had they went "We're doing pre orders by certain month ranges for certain days" prior to the actual Day Of.

 

Day Of announcing is pretty much obfuscation, smoke and mirrors, and just flat out not giving information, I mean sure we know they don't want to be blamed, but it's been shown if you throw the customers a bone they're more apt to accept what you do.

 

Nothing is worse from a PR standpoint than people coming up with all the wrong assumptions due to you not saying anything, and then those points spread.

Keep in mind they DID spread, facebook is a powerful advertising tool, so are blogs, word of mouth, etc.

[Lord_of_Stone]

december never had a chance of 5 days from what i can tell so it was false advertising ... they said you had a chance of upto 5 days... with the statement MAY have UP TO this means you had a chance of upto 5 days... where if you ordered in december (up to yesterday you could still preorder with that same statement) you never had that chance, and that is why they are falsly advertising, ty and good night ps the ASA in the UK agree why do you think they added 2 more days of time well its because they paniced... and took the banner down when someone pointed out it was still up on twitter?

 

hahahhahahahahhahahahaha

 

1/10, you got me to reply.

[iain_b]

This is a screenshot of the exact information and advertisement that was required to be clicked in order to even make it to the pre-order options. One couldn't, to the best of my knowledge, even begin the pre-order process without first coming to the screen captured in this picture.

 

http://www.askajedi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Screen-shot-2011-07-21-at-3.10.47-AM.jpg

 

Don't get me wrong - I understand that this is a very frustrating issue for some people. I'm just sharing my perspective that it seemed really obvious when I pre-ordered through their official website.

 

There is an asterik, I like how your screenshot cuts off the text associated with it.

Edited December 15, 2011 by iain_b

[iain_b]

december never had a chance of 5 days from what i can tell so it was false advertising ... they said you had a chance of upto 5 days... with the statement MAY have UP TO this means you had a chance of upto 5 days... where if you ordered in december (up to yesterday you could still preorder with that same statement) you never had that chance, and that is why they are falsly advertising, ty and good night ps the ASA in the UK agree why do you think they added 2 more days of time well its because they paniced... and took the banner down when someone pointed out it was still up on twitter?

 

Of course they did, it just depended on how fast BW was able to get players into the game.

 

As of now we're looking at 4 days of EGA for December pre-orders if BW stays on track.

Edited December 15, 2011 by iain_b

[Lord_of_Stone]

See the whole thing with legality and legal wording is, it typically does not help your defense in court.

 

Various things can be inferred or logically come to a conclusion via ambiguous terminology.

 

IE: Pre order and get up to five days access early.

 

A) Oh so I get at least five days, that's pretty good.

B) Okay so others get a few days more but I get five, alright.

C) I may not even get five, crap.

or

D) Hey I might get MORE than five!

 

It can go either way

 

No, it cant. Its pretty simple.

 

"You can get up to five days early access."

 

A) sweet, I can get 1,2,3,4, or even 5 days of early access!

 

And thats about it. Absolutely nothing ambiguous about that. The fact that you somehow inferred blatantly false things from this simple sentence is unbelievable. Also, they were blatantly open and honest about how the early access will be staggered.

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20111104-0

 

This was announced on 11/4, and was even hinted at when they announced it months prior.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Lord_of_Stone