If you leave town, when you might access SWTOR the entire weekend... you sir.. do not deserve SWTOR! j/k

Veteran! o/

Personaly i disslike wow because of the fundamental changes they made to the game. In the beginning, there was like 90% casual and 10% elite players. The PvP, PvE and all that was designed so that a handfull of people could achieve incredible feats. Like winning a 1 v 5 pvp scenario, rare but it happened. There was so much to explore back then, simply because so few could actually enter and take down bosses and instances. During the years they started to add in mmo "wheelchairs" so that people could catch up. Suddenly 100% of the players where elite. Not only by gear and beeing able to down whatever they want, they also picked up the attitude. I have 200-300 people i played with during vanilla, and i cant stand beeing around them ingame nowadays sience all seem to have picked up the "elitist jerk" attitude with the gear. "Hey guys! wanna come play with us in this instance, nice to get to know you" became... inspect/fu.. They even "rigged" pvp, back in the days, a skilled player would down a bad player within seconds, if two good players faced eachother the fight was as long as it is today. Back then it was more split second desicions that added action to the gameplay that made it exiting, suddenly they pured porage into the game thru resilience mechanics and what not. Some people, like me, spent ALOT of time investing in learning and gearing ect and suddenly, fresh people could achieve the same with no effort at all. This, was my PERSONAL reason to dissliking wow. Im glad i wasnt playing when the Panda expansion trailer was out. Cause i would probably go into a catatonic depression. What where they smoking when they designed the "Kung fu Panda/china please start paying us 15dollars a month" expansion? =/ And finaly... Due to the PvP gear req they locked people out. Back in the days, gear was gear. You could PvP with it, and PvE. Youre not raiding tonight, its full... oh no problem! I will go PvP instead, cause its fun! Nowadays tho, you cant just decide to go PvPing, due to PvP gear you have to commit just as much time as in getting your PvE gear. In other words, if you cant join the raid tonight, drama begins cause there is NOTHING to do, fights, people leave guilds, drama and so on. So if you focus on one of these things (PvE/PvP), you cant do the other properly ect...

Amen to that!

One thing that bothers me, is the animations with lightsaber combat. You smack things around with it, and theres like a few sparks tops. Basicly, animationwize its like youre bashing someone with a toy lightsaber. I understand that to reach as much costumers as possible you have to let kids play aswell, thus exclude blood and such. But still... id rather have it that every attack that does damage gets a "block" animation. The final blow however either chops of a limb, cleave a droid or a subtle "saber thru char/robe". Running around bashing things with a "toy saber" might get old. =)

Haha what a exelent way to deal with it, the thought havent crossed me at all! Thanks! =D A drunk washed up stormtrooper that took a arrow to the knee lying and exadgerating in a bar somewhere on Tatooine! =D I swear they should have that in the ending of Force Unleashed 2, he finnishes the story, burps and get thrown out by a bouncer!

If its approved, then all is well. If its the same approval as Star Wars, force unleashed... Then the approval isnt worth much imo. =/ For those that havent played it, its an action game with Darth Vaders secret apprentice that is so powerfull he can crush stardestroyers with his force, jump into planetarian orbit and land on his feet ect. Even tho he seems more powerfull than ALL the other Jedis combined, was Vaders apprentice, he is "unknown" and not mentioned anywere else. =)

No **** Sherlock... Im rather discussing things that seem like im not the only one that have assumed when i pre ordered. Quick glance at the few thousand posts these last days shows that there are many that feel like i do.

Well said!

Cmon... you had to see the irony in it! ^^ New mmo... Bearhunter...

Again, the problem isnt just the "up to 5 days" ect. I assumed that "up to" was reserved for server faults and such, incase they cant up the servers on time and such. Even if i read it, i would assume that one millionish preorder clients would gain access in turn, for servers that are built for 20 million players, i assumed it would be HOURS between first and last player. Not "waves" during few hours work time in the US ect.

Yeah that pretty much covers it, i shop ALOT and like i said, i wouldnt have the time even if i wanted. Try spending 1000ish euro a week thru one maybe two hours of time and do 90% of the household and leisure shopping with a full time job and two companies to run. (dont bother shopping during recreational time/evenings).

False marketing laws, are not made for people who cant read. Its made for people who dont have the time to go in depth with regular day shoping, perhapes they have better things to do. Imagine if you had to go to the store and buy everyday products, but sience false marketing laws where off and companies could do anything they wanted as long as it was in the fine print. Would take a full day to buy regular day to day merchendise cause you had to read all the fineprint and EUELA ect. Fresh tasty milk! The box says, in fine print it says they have bull semen in it, or you go buy a regular book, fine print says... by purchasing this book the author may sleep with your wife ect. When i shop, and many others we want the product to deliver the basics in 2-3 lines to speed up the process of shopping, mixed with basic laws that makes sure you cant mislead with those few lines.

VIP line or not, is another discussion. To simplify it, fine its a regular line. Use this release as a cause to drag a company to court? No, wasnt part of the point i was making and i absolutely agree that there is no base to make this a legal issue. To simplify, i accept the terms of the Early access, its in print. I understand people, that feel misled, i dont think they are "idiots" ect. Personaly, i dont like how the release was handled. =)

Another detail, sience we are on the subject. People get access depending on when they preordered. Fine, there are servers ready to hold as many people and more that will start playing on release date. So if we are say 1 million players that pre ordered, and we are in que to join servers made to hold what, 5-10 million players? Did everyone expect it to take three/four days until its your turn? I figured it might be a few hours between the first and last costumer. Did you guys know then that it would be done in waves, and people would sit in the "thinker" position infront of monitors, yawning... going to bed and stop inviting... come back and send a few more... all the way to release date? Vague info so you wouldnt know when its your turn and so forth? Imagine real life, you que to a new opened store. Huge electronics store and you stand in line on the opening day, when the doors open the first ten costumers out of a thousand get in... the store can hold everyone but no... the manager says sorry, we have to monitor these costumers ten at the time. The rest stand outside for several hours, store manager comes out... sorry... we are closed for today. Wait in line... the second day... same thing happen. In real life, there would have been a god damn riot! =)

Most people probably saw the "up to 5 days" did everyone expect it to be a V.I.P line? Personaly i thought the up to 5 days was to assure the costumers that if the servers go down, crash or something unexpected happens then we might need a day or so to repair it. We put "up to" so that you are aware of the problems that might occur. I didnt expect the "up to 5 days" to be a line of people getting in thru waves, staying up adapting to US timelines spamming f5, following derps from bioware on twitter to see whats going on, not knowing what wave youre in ect. None of the resellers i usually buy from, that sold the game stated that it was a preorder line ect. If i knew in June, when you could preorder that you would be in "first waves" then naturally i would have bought it then.

Its true, what you say. I do not want to drag Bioware and EA to court or something, im simply saying that maybe we shouldnt be to hard on people that feel that they have been misled because i think that they have good reason to feel bad about the pre release offer ect.

One company lost and had to pay fines in Sweden for that type of marketing. I know international laws are not as hard when it comes to fineprint and visual marketing, they have better things to do, in Sweden however. They do not have any better things to do, so usually when they check if something is false marketing they ask say 1000 costumers that saw the ad and bought the product, if they realized and knew that something that contradicts the deal was in the fineprint, if they didnt know then the company usually gets a fine or consequence for false marketing. When a MMO "usually" says "up to 5 days" pre access one assumes, i know i do, that they say "up to" because something might happen. Server goes down, explodes and what not. I dont think people assume its a V.I.P preorder system, because well... i dont think it has been done before.

Youre right, but i suspect you know the forum mentality, i took a very extreme example to avoid deeper discussion about the "example". If i took a mobile phone there would be loads of people arguing about if its right or not. Shades of gray, if you will. If the "car" example happened to anyone, few people would argue "for" the car dealership. Posted a link earlier from Origin, where i got the game. Says nothing about the "wave system" ect. Just early access, 5 days, check.

That link seems to be Biowares own, i can show you hundreds, maybe even thousands of sites that do not share that info, this is in Swedish mind you, but its from EA own store where i got mine, says nothing. http://store.origin.com/store/eaemea/sv_SE/html/pbPage.SWTOR_SV/?sourceid=svswtornppc159841321

There are alot of debates on the forums, where some people claim they "thought" they had 5 days early access when they bought the product, and some that attack the posters by saying, read the text properly. Now, EA and Bioware have not comited fraud, they did not state that you would get 5 days pre access, this is true. Thus you can not attack the company for fraud of some kind. I do however, think that false marketing is something that is not far from the truth. When a company states that you can buy a product for X amount of money, and front that you can get additional perks with the purchase with large fonts, and deeper into the contract, where the consumer must take action and look beyond the offer to find something that actually contradicts the main marketed offer this is borderline false marketing. An example, you go to a automobile shop. You pick a car online, the new model ect and you pay 50.000 euro for the "new model" that you picked out with the salesman. Car isnt out yet, you picked the car from a picture on the web or in a pamplet. When the car comes, you payed the money and you get a toy car. If the costumer read all the text, behind the offer and deal there was a small text emplying that you "might" get a toy car. This company would suffer consequenses for false marketing, even if the text underlining said "might get a toy car". Or to compare to this, you get the car 2 years later, "up to 2 years" in fine print before delivery, but the main marketing board says, buy this model and you will get it today! All of us here, on the forum and fans of SWTOR that have been hanging around here since the forum was up, we know pretty much everything about the product. Me, i didnt look up the fine print when i pre ordered the product, i just saw early access, 5 days and bought it. Im not bitter, i realize now the wave system and what not, but i understand if people get upset and i think they have good reason to, if they didnt know about the underlines. If i had a mail, in say june that said, if you buy this game now, you will be first to enter pre access, before everyone else, explaining the system of waves ect then all of us, or most atleast would have preordered it then. As a layman, new to mmos and such can even read on the main website that the "pre access is open now..." ect. But when you click the actual link to "investigate" you get to know more about the depth of the pre access system ect.

Jedi shadows have to wear bath robes because we are so well hunged.

Orly? =)

Star Wars is old too, but i like it. =P