mogarrr Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I thought real PVPers said "I lagged!" lol ye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltman Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Tone down pvp gear or give new 50s a new set that's 20% worse than champ gear would do this game a lot of good. It's call centurion gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbaptist Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The only thing that could be done is valor rank brackets, upto 40,50,60,+ But to increase the incentive's these things you'd have to have better rewards. Much better, none of the rng stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Even if you give a fresh level 50 and everyone else the same battlemaster gear, the better players will come out on top. Which is not what happens today. Rushing to 50 doesn't take skill, it just takes free time. Exploiting valor on Ilum doesn't take skill either. Being a fresh level 50 and doing moderately well against geared level 50's takes a lot of skill and frankly a lot of luck. Then you've got the bag system where you might get fully champ geared in a couple of days or it might take several weeks to eek out enough expertise to survive moderately well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Dinged 50 on my second toon today. Went into PvP. Played about 15 games. Won 10, lost 5. Finished mid-high table consistently. Even beat a couple of fully Cent/Champ geared players. Really doesn't require the endless whine-fest. People seem to think that SWTOR is just going to hand it all to them on a platter. It isn't. It never will. If you want something, you earn it; that has been the basis of MMOs since the dawn of time, and it's never going to change. What people want: a game where they get given gear promptly so that they can hop and bounce their way over other players. Competing isn't an issue as if it were Expertise wouldn't be such a big deal. What people get: a game where you are (somewhat, although I agree about the loot bags) awarded for your time doing a particular activity. PvE lots? Lots of PvE gear. PvP lots? Lots of PvP gear. If you move from one to the other, you are starting another line of progression and have to accept the cost of doing so. As a PvPer who's in full Champ gear, I go into PvE and have to grind out Tier 2s even thought I don't want to. Do I get on with it? Yes. Do I complain? No. Do I feel entitled to play at the same level as those that have already cleared the content? No. So why is the opposite true of PvP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormentuk Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 To OP: Look, i've seen endgame pvp in other games too. And i can say i've seen worse. At least here if 2 non-geared lvl 50 pvpers gang up on 1 fully geared they can still hope to take him down. After Aion's pvp i can honestly say that going through that for some time until i start getting gear is fine... aion is god compared to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuits Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The carebears are flowing into this game. Hopefully they'll fade out soon. Hope basement virgin allowances can keep the game afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killamanjaroo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I turned 50 last night, its horrid I was fkn king at 49 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 We had to work for our PVP gear, so you will have to as well. I should have a big advantage as a level 50 who for the last month, has killed xxxxx amount of players to get my valor and commendations. Why should you (who is about to finally turn 50), have ANY type of level playing field against us who have worked our butts off to get what we got? It's called endgame incentive. If you hit level 50, and there was no gear to obtain, and you were as powerful as you could possibly be, then what would be the point in continuing to play that character? Endgame PVP, this is how it works. Get used to it. /thread Negative ghostrider. This is how broken endgame PVP works. Keeping the gear treadmill rolling after the leveling stops creates a downward spiral for any game. No game has been immune to this once it has been implemented. WoW is a prime example. World PVP became non-existant, lower level brackets became vastly popular (even though the same scum distorting endgame pvp eventually got bored and tried to ruin the lower level brackets as well). "Seasons" became a routine bandaid as a way to gear up new players, but never really solved the problem. Every other MMO with PVP was genuinely fun until leveling stopped and the gear kept increasing. Removes any incentive for new players, removes the fun for a large portion of the playerbase all to appease a small percentage of players wanting an advantage in pvp. Or they wanted a sense of entitlement or recognition for the amount of time they put in to a game. You should have no advantage over newer players other than your experience and what ever non-combat rewards you've chosen to acquire. As far as "worked our butts off to get". What poor timing to try and drop that argument/excuse. When warzones were 1-50, gear/valor was easier to get. You had no battlemasters waiting for you when you got to 50. You had A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD when you hit 50. You have a sense of entitlement for getting there before the crowd. You had cheaper pvp gear while leveling up at 20 & 40. Many players had 1.1 Ilum blunder to level up their valor, regardless of the "investigation" being made by Bioware to address the issue. The same group of players wanting to keep an advantage at 50 are the same group of players wanting to keep the warzone queue 1-50 with premades. Many of the same players who wanted to keep twinks, no experience awarded for battlegrounds. The same group who still wanted fresh/new/casual players to be forced into the same pvp matches. Its time for a game company to deal with this problem and create a game that provides a fun, competitive pvp environment for everyone, not just a select few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyUnicorn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Would be nice to log into the forums and not see spoiled kids posting about how unfair the game is and why they deserve god mode. If you don't have the time to play as much as others why is that their problem. Play at your level of play and let those who put effort into learning their class own you. When you grow up and become a big boy you will find out the world is not fair and nothing is even. Edited January 28, 2012 by CocaineRico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkSugar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) ..... Right now Warzone PVP is: The Rich get Richer, the Poor get Poorer..... Kudos to you for speaking the truth! Bioware needs to address this and FAST! I can't even begin to say how ready people are to move on from this game because of the JACKED UP PvP system. Guild Wars 2 here we come!! Either they fix it or lose 51% of their playerbase. This will be worse than SWG's NGE. Edited January 28, 2012 by PinkSugar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrechor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'm 50 and I did all the same **** you did. don't tell me doing illum pve quest for pvp bags was hard work. When I was leveling up I did a lot of wzs vs higher levels. I just took my time a bit. It was pretty clear the first week guys with no gear can still kill ppl 30 levels higher but as soon as the 50s got the pvp gear it wasn't even close. Try roll a new alt and play wz with no pvp gear and then talk to me about pulling a card you know jack about. Seriously why are you so scared of fighting ppl who might have a chance of beating you? Do you enjoy beating up 10 yr olds irl? Tone down pvp gear or give new 50s a new set that's 20% worse than champ gear would do this game a lot of good. Seriously, **** you lazy bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Kudos to you for speaking the truth! Bioware needs to address this and FAST! I can't even begin to say how ready people are to move on from this game because of the JACKED UP PvP system. Guild Wars 2 here we come!! Either they fix it or lose 51% of their playerbase. This will be worse than SWG's NGE. Actually it isn't the truth. He's simply misguided. His statement would be true if the chance to drop increased based on the amount of gear you have. It doesn't. So the actual truth is: "Everyone suffers from the luck of the draw, some more than others." Also, idle threats and projections about how much of their player base they're going to lose is a ridiculous thing for you to attempt. At least 60% of the people playing the game don't care about your projections, and 30% of those aren't even thinking. The other 40% are too busy having fun to check the forums. 100% of them have no idea who you are and place no weight in your doom and gloom prophecies. Edited January 28, 2012 by indelible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Level 49 ungeared players that can't beat level 50 geared players. How fascinating. More like: Level 49 players with as much gear as they can get, go into massive shock as they turn 50 and lose access to face rolling in the lowbie brackets and become faceroll fodder for the leet geared 50s. Film at 11... Wear a raincoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) People seem to think that SWTOR is just going to hand it all to them on a platter. It isn't. It never will. If you want something, you earn it; that has been the basis of MMOs since the dawn of time, and it's never going to change. It was handed to anyone who powergrinded to 50 out of the starting gate. They "earned" it against other equally undergeared 50s while playing in trivial warzones comprized of 10-50s. It WILL change. That is the only thing that is certain. PVP and PVE are apples and oranges. I fully support putting a hard-cap on all stats when your PVP flag gets turned on. That would solve the worry about endgame PVE'rs ruling the roost with overpowered gear. Very few games have gotten this correct and the ones that did failed the minute they allowed gear progression (or ability "ranking" system) to allow an advantage over other players the same level. Edited January 28, 2012 by Aega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Kudos to you for speaking the truth! Bioware needs to address this and FAST! I can't even begin to say how ready people are to move on from this game because of the JACKED UP PvP system. Guild Wars 2 here we come!! Either they fix it or lose 51% of their playerbase. This will be worse than SWG's NGE. Hate to break it to ya Pink, but you are not 51% of the player base. I will be playing guildwars 2 also, but I am going to keep playing swtor because I actually enjoy this "jacked up" pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckkryptonite Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I did endure it, Even before the brackets came into play, most warzones I had to play huttball 90% against my own fractions of fully geared, over powered sorc's and op's. Ops who you'll lowbies will never have to deal with thanks to the latest nerf on them. And I played through 3 beta builds and had my characters wiped 3 times, and during that period, played even BUGGIER builds of the game than anything half of the ppl QQing on the forums have ever seen, on the republic side mind you. Against godlike sorc's who made Pre Nerf Operatives look like chumps. So yes, I have earned what I have. And you all should have to endure similar trials and tribulations to achieve a level playing field against a player of mine or any other BM's caliber. I like instant gratification as well at times, so that's why I play BF3. MMO's are all about grind to get things that, DON'T make you the best, but instead just a grind to obtain things that give you a fair shot, once you "earn the right to prove yourself", then you'll have you chance to "shine" and prove your skill. That is, IF you have any. Agreed. People need to go play StarCraft 2, LoL, DotA, BF, Halo, etc. if they always want to be on equal footing. One reason we play MMORPGs is for gear progression, not some amazing display of skill. Edited January 28, 2012 by kckkryptonite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Would be nice to log into the forums and not see spoiled kids posting about how unfair the game is and why they deserve god mode. If you don't have the time to play as much as others why is that their problem. Play at your level of play and let those who put effort into learning their class own you. When you grow up and become a big boy you will find out the world is not fair and nothing is even. "Spoiled kids" like yourself do not want to allow people to "Play at your level of play...". That would be brackets, gear/rank-matching on warzones, etc. Your kind would cry foul just like you did when people were calling for a level 50 bracket. Citing how piss poor the world can be is a weak-minded reason to excuse how piss poor end game pvp in a MMO is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) People seem to think that SWTOR is just going to hand it all to them on a platter. It isn't. It never will. If you want something, you earn it; that has been the basis of MMOs since the dawn of time, and it's never going to change. It was handed to anyone who powergrinded to 50 out of the starting gate. They "earned" it against other equally undergeared 50s while playing in trivial warzones comprized of 10-50s. It WILL change. That is the only thing that is certain. PVP and PVE are apples and oranges. I fully support putting a hard-cap on all stats when your PVP flag gets turned on. That would solve the worry about endgame PVE'rs ruling the roost with overpowered gear. Very few games have gotten this correct and the ones that did failed the minute they allowed gear progression (or ability "ranking" system) to allow an advantage over other players the same level. saying something was handed to someone and that they powergrinded to it in the same paragraph sounds kind of skitzophrenic. So which is it? Did they grind for days to get it or was it handed to them? Nevermind, that whole post is nothing but gibberish. EDIT: Funny that they block out skitzo when spelled properly EDIT 2: Oh, and fixed your quote problem. Edited January 28, 2012 by Kelticfury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Agreed. People need to go play StarCraft 2, LoL, DotA, BF, Halo, etc. if they always want to be on equal footing. One reason we play MMORPGs is for gear progression, not some amazing display of skill. PVE is gear progression. PVP is about competing against other players for enjoyment. Its not about pwning noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidenPryde Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Removing expertise from the game will solve all of these problems really. Its basically a 30% boost for people if you have 10% of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) saying something was handed to someone and that they powergrinded to it in the same paragraph sounds kind of skitzophrenic. So which is it? Did they grind for days to get it or was it handed to them? Nevermind, that whole post is nothing but gibberish. EDIT: Funny that they block out skitzo when spelled properly EDIT 2: Oh, and fixed your quote problem. I really need to break it down for you? NO ONE can argue that gearing up at level 50 with no Battlemaster 50s waiting for you is much easier than if they were present. NO ONE can argue that warzones, when most of the playerbase were just getting into the 20s, was a joke for the level 50 powergrinders. How is this gibberish? EDIT: Hey thanks for fixing my quote problem. Veiled insults only tarnish your character. Edited January 28, 2012 by Aega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) It was handed to anyone who powergrinded to 50 out of the starting gate. They "earned" it against other equally undergeared 50s while playing in trivial warzones comprized of 10-50s. It WILL change. That is the only thing that is certain. PVP and PVE are apples and oranges. I fully support putting a hard-cap on all stats when your PVP flag gets turned on. That would solve the worry about endgame PVE'rs ruling the roost with overpowered gear. Very few games have gotten this correct and the ones that did failed the minute they allowed gear progression (or ability "ranking" system) to allow an advantage over other players the same level. Your point is pretty rubbish to be honest. My retort is quite simple: I want to be able to do EV and KP without wiping ever on Nightmare mode, so we should put a cap on the amount of damage those bosses do to allow for me to go in and pwn everything in pre Tier 1 epics. Why? Because I don't want to put the effort and time into EV, KP, EV HM and KP HM. Would you be happy with that? It's just horrific entitlement. I DON'T have Tier 2 gear because I DON'T raid often. I don't expect to have that gear, and I certainly don't expect Bioware to compromise on YOUR enjoyment and YOUR accomplishments in that arena by giving me ez mode access to it and allowing me to compete with you without having to put any effort in. If you wish to compete in PvP, go through the same process that got me my Champ gear. If you want to fight me on equal terms, put the effort in and you can. And when I want to PvE I'll be going through EV and KP on Normal, HM and NM so that I have the gear that allows me to progress, just like you did. P.S. A qualifier: I hit 50 on my toon relatively late in the game. There were already a few BMs on our server, and most of the "hardcore" PvPers were already running around in full cent/champ PvP gear. I did NOT power grind. I took my time, and when I hit 50.... I carried on. Edited January 28, 2012 by indelible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You all are bad if you can't stand ground vs people with PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Removing expertise from the game will solve all of these problems really. Its basically a 30% boost for people if you have 10% of it. LOL No it isn't. Maths clearly isn't your field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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