there is a list of players at the end just give everyone credit for F sakes 2 lines of code it's not that hard.

this is getting worse not better.

you show up a chart at the end of wz , it has who is in it how much dmg healing e done. How hard can it be to just give everyone on that list credit for winning? 3 patches now saying you fixed it, and it still happens .

random daoc vid. You'll see a gp of 8 beat 3x their number. The first 1/2 of the vid the guy who took it is in cat form so you don't see his cast animations but you get the deal. Enjoy.

read some books about real wars , it may come as a shock to you, smaller armies beat larger ones ALL THE TIME.

lol all you wow kid just don't get what real pvp is. open world doesn't mean mindless zerg vs zerg. if you put defending pts in the world the smaller side will go to the defense pts and hold off vs larger zerg and win a lot of the time. If you don't want to zerg a small gp can do very well picking off zerg piece meal. learn to extend and hit and run. go to u tube and watch some DAoC vids and you'll see. The thing I love most about open world pvp is the fact you can try and take on more people than your gp and if you do it right you can win or take out 2 to 3 times your number before you die.

A lot of dps class will get at least 1 heal metal from just using heal packs. Some hybrid speced class like sorc can do 100k heals and still deal out 300k of dps in champ gear.

Hmm in WoW arena has brackets, bgs you do just fine with raid gear. in warhammer you can enter t4 at rr70 is you wanted to and wear full cheao sov which is more than enough for you to compete.

let me rewrite this foryou. "50 pvp is fun when you have gear and group with other ppl who also have gear rolling pugs with no gear. please don't quit because I love my easy mode too much"

I call bs, no way you can get 400k damage as new 50 with 200 exp. Even if you are qued with all premade carried by rr70 guys .

lol I played AC, DAoC, WoW , WAR and bunch of other mmos . Game like DAoC I played 6 years. This is sadly one of the best level up experience I had in mmo and the 2'nd worst pvp right behind Aion.

level 50 pvp i basically grinding 3 wzs over and over so you can get gear so that you can GRIND THE SAME 3 WZ over and over . When I realized what I was doing It was kinda funny in a really sad way. Sub runs out in 1 week I'm not likely to play this again. Too bad I can't give out my champ set to some new 50 before I leave.

Well I guess we have to disagree then. I played rr12 BD rr9 mentalist, rr8 mauler and rr8 hunter. Lover all my 50s and had a blast on all of them. Never really had days I didn't look forward to pvp. As for pop in balance that's the best part of DAoC a small 8 man can do quite well surfing the edge of a giant zerg and just lure small numbers out and kill them. Not trying to say that your perception of DAoC is wromg. I had a blast I would not have quit if WAR didn't come out. I might still go back to it after swtor.

you must have played before classic. 50 hero was a beast in classic near unkillable 1 v1 and must have in 8 man . if you didn't have fun with that I don't know what you can ask for.

if you ever play DAoC classic servers you would have seen what real pvp is. That game was balanced and gear matters less than skill. There were several 1 v1 torments and a lot of players did very well with newly made toons vs ppl who are 5-6 rr above. But I do agree with your statement that pvp in mmo is doomed. Not because classes can't be balanced or factions can't be balanced or gear can't be balanced or even performance issues. The problem with pvp in mmo is that people only have fun when they win. Since you are fighting other players in order for you to win someone else has to lose. So at best you can satisfy 1/2 of your player base. In reality it's more like 10% of the player farming the rest 90%. So you end up with a pissed off player base no matter what. People lose and lose again at some pt they say f this and quit. I don't see how any one can get around that.

kinda funny to read all the qq post about the gear change. "I worked my *** off and now you are going to give it out for free!!@$@$" "how is it fair to have someone who doesn't pvp be able to beat me@!#@$" Seems to me if you pvped 5x as much as new 50s your SKILL should make you a better pvper and beat that new 50 who is wearing the same gear as you. Why feel the need to hide behind your gear. And before you flame , I do have my full champ gear already. I for 1 don't mind fighting new people with same gear, beating on people who can't hurt me isn't my idea of competitive pvp or fun for that matter.

Since the game is patching and I'm bored I'll rant a bit. I'm 50, have a bit of gear. I like WZs it's fun , flawed but still fun. I pug a lot but if I wanted I have a gp of solid pvper in my guild I can group with. Illum is a bit of a joke but not bad enough that I would quit the game over it. Yet I am going to unsub swtor. Why? Because I am bored to bits. I log on get my daily pvp quest, do 6 wzs to get my 3 wins. After about 5 or 6 I just can't bring myself to do the same WZ again. So now what? to illum and ride my bike for another hr zerg some poor jedi and pick up crates. At this pt I have done all I can and want in Swtor as a pvper. And the next day I get to do the same thing again. Now lets compare to DAoC which I played for a good 6 years. I log on, I check my guild right away to see if I can get a guild gp going. If I get a good group going we can go to the island in rvr zone and fight other 8 mans. When we are done with that we can go find where the zergs are fighting and either roam the edge of the zerg and pick off people, or block road to the zerg and stop reinforcements. Or join the zerg as a gp and spearhead attacks or lead defenses. If we get bored of that we can go to a dungeon and kill other gps who are trying to kill boss mob for gear, we kill them and then kill the boss . If we get bored of that we can go find some random keep and just start attacking it to get a zerg to fight us and see how long we can last vs massive zerg. Lets say I can't find a full gp, I can build a small group of 3-4 people and we can roam the docks of the other realms where people have to go to take boats. We setup traps and ambushes for solo players . We try to bait out stealthers and try dodge full gps and zergs. We can find a tower take it and try hold it as long as we can. lets say I can't even find 2-3 ppl to gp with. I can head out solo and go to the solo area and duel other people. or just stay at my own docks and fight the endless stream of stealthers and small groups trying to gank people like me who are solo. I can join the zerg and fight for the realm. I can go to rvr dungeons and try ruin peoples day by jumping on them when they are trying to down a boss. I can play DAoC for days and never ever get bored. That is real pvp. If you never played something like DAoC you won't get what pvp could be like. To this day I still remember my first 100 vs 100 fight standing at the end with a few of my realm mates with hundreds of dead player bodies littered all over the landscape and the awe of knowing you lived through that madness. Or the time I manage to kite 5 players cross 1/2 a zone and kill them one at a time. Or the time I had a epic 1/2 hr 1 v 1 . People cared about that game, vn boards was a fun place to go , you knew the names of all the good players from your side and the other sides. You developed friendships and respect for your foes. Anyhow I ranted enough. Time well wasted .

lol ye.

you know what real pvpers say? let them have the same gear as me I would pwn them anyway with my pvp skills. if you are better pvper then you don't need to hide behind your gear.

I'm 50 and I did all the same **** you did. don't tell me doing illum pve quest for pvp bags was hard work. When I was leveling up I did a lot of wzs vs higher levels. I just took my time a bit. It was pretty clear the first week guys with no gear can still kill ppl 30 levels higher but as soon as the 50s got the pvp gear it wasn't even close. Try roll a new alt and play wz with no pvp gear and then talk to me about pulling a card you know jack about. Seriously why are you so scared of fighting ppl who might have a chance of beating you? Do you enjoy beating up 10 yr olds irl? Tone down pvp gear or give new 50s a new set that's 20% worse than champ gear would do this game a lot of good.

it's funny to hear ppl say we had to work for pvp gear so you should too. You kow what you didn't work for pvp gear. Those ppl who have full champ and bm already are the first batch of 50s which means you grinded wzs against ppl with same **** gear as you. You never had to fight ppl who can 3 shot you to get your gear. So stop the whole I had to work hard for my gear too crap.

It seems you people have forgotten why we play game in the first place. To have fun! remember fun?!@ It's bad design to have new 50s fight geared out players in champ anf bm gear. It's no fun for the new 50s to get killed in 5 secs with no hope of fighting back, and It can't be that much fun for people with gear to just kill new 50s . How much skill does it take really beat on guys who have 0 chance of hurting you and just 2 - 3 shot them over and over?

Gear, there are a lot of geared 50 out there. At your level you can't do much vs them. simple as that. in the early days before the hardcore players got their gear you can do well as low level in wz but now the gear gap between a geared 50 and a 28 is too huge for you to make any diff. at all.

not 50 yet but I just mount and dismount in between fights and pet is at full health insta.

lol you are 50 and gear ofcourse you love huttball . You are fighting ppl who can't fight back vs you. Seriously, how fun is it to punch a 10 year old in the face and make him cry over and over? 50 only bracket will not lower que time since most ppl will have nothing to do but que AT 50, all you lose is easy mode.