No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[VanorDM]

If I can't find better gear.

 

How could you not find better gear? If you have orange items you can buy mods from the vendor for either credits or commendations.

 

If you are using blues/greens... There's plenty of those you can find doing PvE missions.

 

There is no possible way the gear you found at lvl 35 is superior to the stuff you can get at lvl 50 from the various vendors and mission rewards.

[ferroz]

I'm sorry, I'm declaring a troll.

I think it's possible that you're misreading his post.

 

I just looked at the AH - at least on my server, there's a full collection of level 47+ mods, running around 8K or so each. You could easily upgrade everything in those orange pieces for what at level 50 is a trivial amount of cash and effort.

2 things.

 

1. Your server AH may not match his.

 

2. Maybe he's talking about the fact that he can't find better LOOKING orange pieces.

Edited January 30, 2012 by ferroz

[Creed_Buhallin]

Then why roll need when others with an equal need dont?

You're really wrapped around this "Someone rolled greed and then someone with a different set of priorities rolled need" thing, aren't you? Please, show us on the doll which slot the bad loot ninja took from you...

 

Seriously - if you're this worried about it, discuss it with the group. Everyone had been advocating that since about post 2 of the last thread, 1900 or so responses ago. Or once it happens, say "Hey, we seem to have a disconnect on what we're needing for here, can we take a sec to clear it up?"

 

If it's a misunderstanding on what qualifies as "need", then that can be cleared up through communication. If you're trying to impose your playstyle to define "need", then that's a problem.

[Halinalle]

I'm sorry, I'm declaring a troll.

 

I just looked at the AH - at least on my server, there's a full collection of level 47+ mods, running around 8K or so each. You could easily upgrade everything in those orange pieces for what at level 50 is a trivial amount of cash and effort.

 

So you're either a simple troll, or so clueless that you really can't contribute anything to the conversation.

 

No, I want better stats and better looking gear. Currently my character looks like he escaped from X-Men or is secret cousin of Spiderman.

[ferroz]

How could you not find better gear? If you have orange items you can buy mods from the vendor for either credits or commendations.

 

If you are using blues/greens... There's plenty of those you can find doing PvE missions.

 

There is no possible way the gear you found at lvl 35 is superior to the stuff you can get at lvl 50 from the various vendors and mission rewards.

no, it's quite possible to hit 50 and still have mid 30s relics at least, and there are a few other slots that you might miss if you skip out on portions of a planet.

 

I did that on a couple occasions: I skipped big portions because I had vastly outleveled the planet. It happens if you pvp much.

[Creed_Buhallin]

1. Your server AH may not match his.

 

2. Maybe he's talking about the fact that he can't find better LOOKING orange pieces.

(1) is very true, but I doubt it's THAT big a difference. And as has been pointed out by others, planetary commendations are also a viable source of mods. I cannot imagine how someone could end up with mods in their gear that are 15 levels behind, with no options to upgrade.

 

As for (2), I'm going off his mention of running hard modes - if he's concerned about looks, difficulty is really irrelevant. I think it's plenty important to like your look, obviously, and fully support trying to upgrade for looks, but I don't think normal/hard modes are relevant to that. So, I'm assuming it's a capability issue.

[ispanolfw]

You must have missed the discussion overnight regarding the importance of looking pretty and how it trumps the practical use of the gear for other players.

 

I can wait while you go back and get brought up to speed.

 

We never stated it trumps it. Just that some people prioritize it over stats. And that you have no right to tell them their prioritization is wrong and force them to abandon the reason they may play the game because you disagree with it.

[ferroz]

(1) is very true, but I doubt it's THAT big a difference. And as has been pointed out by others, planetary commendations are also a viable source of mods. I cannot imagine how someone could end up with mods in their gear that are 15 levels behind, with no options to upgrade.

I'm seeing some reports of very dead AH's

 

Actually mods are kind of weird in the 30s. The ones you can get from commendations are pretty meh for some specs (say, a tank); mine wound up 10 levels behind or so..

[Eldren]

No, I want better stats and better looking gear. Currently my character looks like he escaped from X-Men or is secret cousin of Spiderman.

 

Going for better-looking gear is just fine if you haven't found a look you like yet. The major points of appearance are head/shoulders/chest/legs. Shoulders are part of the chest piece. I've been using the same orange chest piece since Tattooine, and the same head piece since Hoth. In both cases they dropped off mobs in the world (not even off quest bosses). I was fortunate. I didn't like the skirt look, so I went to the GTN and bought orange leggings, then slotted them with mods I needed. I recently got some orange boots I liked that had better upgrades, so I equipped 'em. Once again, a world drop.

 

What does this mean? It means that in large part, at this point I'm only likely to roll on stuff in Flashpoints to equip my companions, or if they have mods I want in an orange or purple. Either way, I'm still the one who determines the priorities which direct my loot rolls, and no other player. I earned that right by helping to defeat the boss.

[Halinalle]

(1) is very true, but I doubt it's THAT big a difference. And as has been pointed out by others, planetary commendations are also a viable source of mods. I cannot imagine how someone could end up with mods in their gear that are 15 levels behind, with no options to upgrade.

 

Actually mods I use are 47+.

[ferroz]

That reply was both "it's my right" and "it's my decision" all wrapped together with no real explanation of exactly what it is about cosmetics or companions that make them rise to the level of need over the functionality of a fellow player who is actually in the instance.

No one says that the level of need is more than that. so the reason you don't see that explanation is that no one is making that claim.

 

The functionality of the item for your purposes does not actually mean that it's a need. It's just something you want. You want it for your reasons and it doesn't mater what those reasons are. Just like I want it for my reasons and it doesn't matter what those reasons are.

[Grecanis]

*edit* Sorry ..forgot to quote the post I was referring to.

 

You make it quite clear with the words you use that you believe that your method is the morally and ethically superior method.

 

You use words like respect and courtesy to describe your way, but terms like disrespect and selfish to describe mine. Even though I at best will have a equal chance at winning an item I will use as anyone else who rolls need/greed.

 

I will if everyone else rolled Greed state I'm going to roll Need if I want the item for a companion, and why, if people have an issue with this, depending on how the group is going otherwise, I will either select greed and take my chance or perhaps quit the group if it has been going badly. In fact I'll likely state that up front before the group starts.

 

I will not pass/greed an item I can use as an upgrade just because someone else selected Need, regardless of why they did it.

 

I will not feel I'm somehow cheating someone out of something if I win the roll.

 

self·ish   /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/ Show Spelled[sel-fish]

 

1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives

---

dis·re·spect   /ˌdɪsrɪˈspɛkt/ Show Spelled[dis-ri-spekt] Show IPA

noun

1. lack of respect; discourtesy; rudeness.

verb (used with object)

2. to regard or treat without respect; regard or treat with contempt or rudeness.

Origin:

1605–15; dis-1 + respect

Synonyms

1. contempt, disregard, irreverence.

--

re·spect·ful   /rɪˈspɛktfəl/ Show Spelled[ri-spekt-fuhl] Show IPA

adjective

full of, characterized by, or showing politeness or deference: a respectful reply.

---

cour·te·ous   /ˈkɜrtiəs/ Show Spelled[kur-tee-uhs] Show IPA

adjective

having or showing good manners; polite.

---

 

 

Now you tell me who's argument better represents which definition

Edited January 30, 2012 by Grecanis

[Loendar]

Again, incorrect. I said I'm entitled to roll how I choose. I said you have no business in how I choose to roll.

 

Please read before your jump the gun. He who jumps the gun, gets shot in the ***

 

Okay. More to point.

 

Your concept of what is a valid 'entitled' roll greatly outstrips my opinion of what qualifies. Therefore, you are inherently - in your estimation - entitled to more than I am.

[ferroz]

Actually mods I use are 47+.

not the ones from the daily quest rewards?

 

if the mods are level 47, what exactly do you have that's level 35?

Edited January 30, 2012 by ferroz

[ispanolfw]

Maybe not the same ..but close.

 

I'll agree that gearing a companion is important. But I would disagree that it takes precidence over another member of the group.

 

This game provides may way with which to obtain gear. Not the least of which is farming instances. Why can that method not be used to upgrade external factors such as aesthetics and companions? Why does it have to be in the instance and at the expense of your fellow members?

 

to answer the inevitable reply of "stats can be farmed too" ...The look you like will still be available ..the stats one needs at that time may only be availabe at that time.

 

Because aside from Vendor Oranges, the oranges you get from missions are for your class 99% of the time. In fact the items for your companions are usually green. So if you want a certain look, you HAVE to go to a FP. And also, since people have noticed only gear for their base class drops when they solo a FP, you pretty much NEED someone from that other class to come to even have a real chance at it. But no, those people aren't allowed to roll since that other member can benefit more.... wait, what?

[Creed_Buhallin]

Actually mods I use are 47+.

 

Yeah, I think level 50 gear would be better than level 35 gear I still have when you do Hard Modes.

 

<shrug> I give up. I stand by my last assertion: Language barrier, troll, or clueless as to game mechanics.

[ferroz]

Okay. More to point.

 

Your concept of what is a valid 'entitled' roll greatly outstrips my opinion of what qualifies.

No, it's just different

 

your premise is not a true statement, so the conclusion is indeterminate.

 

Therefore, you are inherently - in your estimation - entitled to more than I am.

No, I don't think I'm entitled to anything more than you. We're both equally entitled to a roll for the loot. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Loendar]

No, only to loot we WILL use - be it for looks or stats.

 

Which is something that not everyone agrees to be on equal footing.

 

Your default position is that any perceived 'need' on your part - visual, stat or companion is equally important.

 

I disagree with that assessment on its face.

 

Your system benefits you and only you (unless everyone in your group shares it, of course) while mine benefits others as well.

[Creed_Buhallin]

self·ish   /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/ Show Spelled[sel-fish]

 

1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives

---

Now you tell me who's argument better represents which definition

I'm going to say it's the guy who thinks that his playstyle is the only valid one, that thinks someone who has other priorities should take a back seat and not have an option for an equal shot at the loot.

 

Just in cast that's too subtle:

 

devoted to or caring only for STATS; concerned primarily with one's own STATS, benefits, PROGRESSION, etc, regardless of others WHO MAY PREFER APPEARANCE

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Because I use items I need for looks or stats - and not all items I need that I use for looks and stats are only for my "class".

 

Okay, I think you're still confused by what I'm saying. Items that can be equipped by anybody, regardless of whether they boost your stats or not? Sure, fair game. I'm talking specifically about those items that you cannot equip even if you wanted to. The ones that are restricted to a specific class. If an item can only be equipped by, say, Jedi, then I think the system should be set up so only Jedi can roll Need for it.

[Halinalle]

not the ones from the daily quest rewards?

 

Haven't found any good mods I could buy with daily commendations. Again I don't need Aim as primary stat if I play melee class.

[Vydor_HC]

Now you tell me who's argument better represents which definition

 

The people suggesting others should subject themselves to an idea of need not shared by all.

 

I see those saying equal opportunity to roll on what they need as being the least selfish of any here.

[ispanolfw]

I concede that you can use orange gear to look a specific way. If you will concede that you can use ALL gear to look a certain way.

 

The difference is that orange gear brings a whole host of other items with it that go far beyond appearance and that rolling based on the aspect of how it looks while ignoring a legitimate practical use is 'wrong'.

 

So your way of playing is greater than theirs? Really now, please back this up. Within the confines that you're not paying more than them for a more privileged experience.

[ferroz]

Which is something that not everyone agrees to be on equal footing.

 

Your default position is that any perceived 'need' on your part - visual, stat or companion is equally important.

 

I disagree with that assessment on its face.

Yes, we know. We've been telling you this for 3 thread restarts now (I think)

 

Your system benefits you and only you (unless everyone in your group shares it, of course) while mine benefits others as well.

False. My system provides the same benefits to everyone equally; your system only benefits people who have the same priorities on loot as you do, and gives lesser benefit to those that don't share your priority.

 

Mine is the inherently more fair system.

[Creed_Buhallin]

Your system benefits you and only you (unless everyone in your group shares it, of course) while mine benefits others as well.

This is only valid if you completely disregard another player's enjoyment.

 

As I've mentioned, my wife cares a lot about her character's looks. If I impose a bad look on her for the sake of my own capability, I'm reducing her enjoyment of the game. I won't do that. If it gets so bad that we can't progress, that's one thing, and she balances that with her look. She was, for a while, wearing a better-statted item that she didn't like the look of. She did so reluctantly, and when she got the Cademimu jacket she was thrilled.

 

You're actually not wrong that stat benefits extend outside, while appearance will be largely personal. But that doesn't mean you can just disregard it. My wife is respectful of the stats side - if she can't perform, she'll go with a look she dislikes for the sake of better stats. But in general, we do just fine, and someone choosing an appearance option over a stats option is not going to cause the group to go into a tailspin of incompetence.