No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[dargor-]

"Because I can."

 

-M. Burns

[LifeOfMessiah]

First off, I doubt you have any medical training that allows you to determine my state of mental health, so as such your opinion is just that.

 

Secondly, I'll point out why it is false.

 

The honour system you talk about dictates that if an item is more suited to one class, that item should be passed onto any member of that class in the group.

 

But, the system is flawed in several places.

 

#1 It demands that people who help get to the point of being able to roll on loot, give up that entitlement to the loot.

 

#2 This system is open to determination of 'need'. It might be 1 in a stat for 1 player or a whole bunch of stats for another.

 

#3 ToR has companions. Those companions need gearing up. Unlike other MMOs, the pet classes did not get geared up.

 

#4 The rules governing the system are too open to individual determination, allowing for debate.

 

#5 The system splits the community/playerbase. We have had people here say they'll demad to know how I intend to roll before I even get to kill a mob. And, if I don't conform to their system, I get kicked.

 

There are so many more. But it's biggest flaw is that it allows people to come here and demand I give my entitlement to roll on loot I earned a right to roll on, because they feel they have that right, so as to allow them a better chance of winning the loot. And they call me selfish !!

 

And this is selfishness at it's core. People who are selfish will never understand an honour system that promotes selflessness. All I hear from this diatribe is ME..ME..ME..never us..them..others.

[Setanian]

the system does not demand ..it suggests.

 

If it suggests, no-one has to follow the suggestion, right?

 

 

 

That's what this whole debate boils down to ..the definition of "need".

 

And if we do as I say and remove the 'need' button, we wouldn't need a debate.

 

 

 

If the companion was not in the fight, how do they suddenly earn the right to anything that drops?

 

I was in the fight, I am entitled to a roll. What I do with the roll is no-one business, and what I do with anything I win, is no-one business, but mine.

 

Here we are back again at you deciding what I give priority to. Here we are at you wanting to know my business.

[Setanian]

And this is selfishness at it's core. People who are selfish will never understand an honour system that promotes selflessness. All I hear from this diatribe is ME..ME..ME..never us..them..others.

 

Because the 'others' you speak of are trying to make a quick buck.. They are trying a 'scam'..

 

"look that's better suited to me, don't roll need, I need it more than you"

 

On the other hand, you attempting to coerce me into giving you something because you want it, is in itself 'selfish'. We both earned the entitlement to roll on the loot. You have no right whatsoever to deny me that entitlement.

 

And the loot was never yours until you won it, If you didn't win it, it is and was not, yours.

[MaxonJaxon]

Because the 'others' you speak of are trying to make a quick buck.. They are trying a 'scam'..

 

"look that's better suited to me, don't roll need, I need it more than you"

 

On the other hand, you attempting to coerce me into giving you something because you want it, is in itself 'selfish'. We both earned the entitlement to roll on the loot. You have no right whatsoever to deny me that entitlement.

 

And the loot was never yours until you won it, If you didn't win it, it is and was not, yours.

 

Are you saying everyone that only rolls on things that upgrade their class stats are scammers?

[LifeOfMessiah]

Because the 'others' you speak of are trying to make a quick buck.. They are trying a 'scam'..

 

"look that's better suited to me, don't roll need, I need it more than you"

 

On the other hand, you attempting to coerce me into giving you something because you want it, is in itself 'selfish'. We both earned the entitlement to roll on the loot. You have no right whatsoever to deny me that entitlement.

 

And the loot was never yours until you won it, If you didn't win it, it is and was not, yours.

 

I'm sorry that you tend to think the worst of people. I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt. Less stress and more enjoyable experience. I've never had people try to pull that scam on me, and if they do, I just don't group with them, plain and simple. There are plenty of people out there who truly are selfless in thinking of others.

 

Yes, you have a RIGHT, and you are ENTITLED to the same loot as they are. However, if you always roll need when everyone else rolls greed, and you don't really need it, then you are the selfish one, not them. Same goes for anyone who tries that.

 

Yes, there are a few bad apples that try to ruin the honour system by doing that, but those people end up alone and having a very bad gaming experience, because eventually...word spreads and no one will play with them.

 

If you have experienced that, then I am sorry that has happened to you, but that doesn't give you the right to start acting like the others that have done you wrong. This is where taking the higher ground comes in.

[crica]

Are you saying everyone that only rolls on things that upgrade their class stats are scammers?

 

Nah - what I read them saying is that ppl who tell others to not roll are scamming others so only they get the item they want while ppl who invite everyone to roll for the items they want are scamming no one.

[Grecanis]

You can write that as often as you want.

 

I've had no probles so far keeping six pieces or more of mod'able gear on my own toons plus at least five pieces of mod'able gear on at least two companions updated.

It's easy. Keep your crafting leveled, use those commendations you keep getting which you won't need for anything else anyway SINCE you're keeping your mod'able gear, and SINCE you're keeping it updated.

 

In fact, the only items I've had to roll "Need" on in the last two weeks were non-mod'able items in slots where no mod'ables exist.

 

ALL you can tell me is that you're too lazy or ... otherwise not able .. to do it.

 

You're being greedy. And even worse, you're trying to hide your greed and/or ignorance behind a (misused) code of morality.

 

I craft my own mods so in actuality I've never seen anything I "needed" to roll on. But I have seen a couple instances where someone rolled need on something where the enhancement was the only thing they could remotely use. Saying it was for a companion who didn't contribute to the fight. One of thise instances aced a player who actually needed it.

 

I watch the GTN constantly for mods I can't craft for whatever reason. My toons are geared ...all 16 of them. But it's a costly, time consuming process. So I would thank you to keep your opinion of my personal initiative to yourself.

 

 

Newsflash: in THIS GAME, mod'able gear is ALL about cosmetics. 'Only exception currently being end-game PvE and PvP sets, but this topic has no bearing on them since you don't roll on them, you earn them.

And they'll be brought in line with "all about cosmetics", too, in the near future, that has already been announced.

 

I'd see you line of reasoning if we'd be talking about non-mod'ables. Those are all about stats, and getting the most upgrade from them. But we aren't.

 

Doesn't change the fact that aesthetics are not a need.

 

What I see instead is a loot-wh0ring drama-queen ************ about a lost roll.

 

And I'll gladly type it out again and again until you understand

 

Personal insults are the last resort of a debater with a weak arguement.

 

Don't worry, I have thick skin ..I won't report you?

[Zaskaszh]

And this is selfishness at it's core. People who are selfish will never understand an honour system that promotes selflessness. All I hear from this diatribe is ME..ME..ME..never us..them..others.

 

BINGO!!! If people looked at how they communicated with others (writing or speaking) and reflected on it, they might realize that all they're saying is "I want, I deserve, I'm allowed, I'm entitled, I'm permitted, I'm not going to..."

 

I, I, I, I, and to hell with everyone else. Well, why exactly should anyone group with you if you have this mentality?

 

Answer; they shouldn't. You're the MMO equivalent of cancer.

[Maccaroth]

Because the 'others' you speak of are trying to make a quick buck.. They are trying a 'scam'..

No. They don't want money and they don't want to scam you. They want the gear that suits their character the best and they are willing to let you roll need without competition on their side if they don't need it (not their class item). It's that simple. Money is no issue here.

 

Where did you get this idea from?

 

On the other hand, you attempting to coerce me into giving you something because you want it, is in itself 'selfish'.

No. I simply don't want an unpredictable person in my team.

 

Can someone make a poll to let us see how many people would vote for what system ("Add need for a companion", "There are no rules, there is only the dice" and so on) to cut short argument about majority versus minority?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Maccaroth

[thisguyhere]

I would just like to say how glad I am that they have Master Looter in the game. Fixes everything.

[Grecanis]

If it suggests, no-one has to follow the suggestion, right?

 

Correct ...but they "should"

 

And if we do as I say and remove the 'need' button, we wouldn't need a debate.

 

Restricting need rolls to Armor type + primary stat would accomplish the same thing.

 

I was in the fight, I am entitled to a roll. What I do with the roll is no-one business, and what I do with anything I win, is no-one business, but mine.

 

Sure, fine ...roll greed then

 

Here we are back again at you deciding what I give priority to. Here we are at you wanting to know my business.

 

Last I noticed, nothing has been decided and the debate go's on.

[madmikeyb]

I am so sick of the cred farming and emps that used illum to get battle master gear. Since they will never be punished i could careless when it comes item roll. I will need it if my companion needs it or if i need mods. If you dont like it unsub or play something else. I need the mods or the gear for my companion get over it. Complain to BW cause they really care what happens in this game or you being cry baby over something you can just get on another time through.

 

 

Stop being lazy and do it again if you need it that bad, its a game not real life. So get over it.

 

Wait this is an idea do it with guild memebers none on then QQ some more.

[Obus]

So i looted a pair of pants for my companion today. they were orange.. means re-modable.

No rules (..unspoken i might add..) were talked about or said before any kind of run was done. After i looted these pants.. one guy got really ticked off.. i offered them to him twice and yet he did not say anything about taking them off my hands.. So my point is... not everyone plays tons of games , or has played alot of MMORPGS out there and know of these rules ( unspoken )..

I agree with some posts in here about looting for companions and looting for yourself if its for another class and you can remod it then so be it.. run the mission or missions again and try to get another.. all you gain is xp and more loot and even creds,... so no loss really.

The devs will never put in place loot for companion only or loot for your class only , or loot for your armor class only.. tbh thats just really stupid and too much line of code just to apease some people.

 

Bottom line here.. there is looting rules already inplace.. its in the game mechanics already.. If you dont like the way the game loots.. then dont play. If something drops and someone wants to loot it and gets it, even though they may not need it... you dont know wth they are gonna use it for.. dont cry /whine / ***** / be a over 18 adult acting some female dog. If ( you ) rolled on it and win .. great move on to the next mob, and keep going.. this is a game .. theres plenty of chances for loot for everyone over time. I have lost plenty of items in loot rolls needing an items for my class.. and i know a agent doesnt need light armor. but maybe he needed for his companion or to sell.. TBH I dont care people.. Take the $hit if you want it for something.

[crica]

@OP:

 

If the Need button on your screen asks you to decide what items I need or not, then you get to decide what items I need or not.

 

Other then that, I will be deciding what items I need or not - thanks anyway!

Edited January 29, 2012 by crica

[LifeOfMessiah]

BINGO!!! If people looked at how they communicated with others (writing or speaking) and reflected on it, they might realize that all they're saying is "I want, I deserve, I'm allowed, I'm entitled, I'm permitted, I'm not going to..."

 

I, I, I, I, and to hell with everyone else. Well, why exactly should anyone group with you if you have this mentality?

 

Answer; they shouldn't. You're the MMO equivalent of cancer.

 

Wait a minute...I hope you weren't referring to Me here LOL. You will find me very easy to get along with and one of the most selfless players around, and I say that with utter humility, because I know that I still make mistakes from time to time. One time, I accidentally rolled need on an item that wasn't even specific to my class, and won, essentially stealing it from someone who really could've used it. Unfortunately, it was also BoA, so I couldn't even give it to them, which really made matters worse. To this day, I haven't been given the chance to make it up to the other player (haven't seen them since) but when and if I do, I will make it up to them somehow.

[Rotny]

I'm very considerate when running FPs. I always ask before rolling need on any item for companions. Unfortunately, most groups say NO NEED ROLLS FOR COMPANIONS. In fact I've yet to see a group that was ok with it. This kind of sucks, cause when everyone greed rolls and random person gets the item, they're probably just going to vendor it for a few measly credits when I could have gave it to my companion for a huge upgrade.

 

TLDR: The loot system in this game sucks, especially considering every player is trying to collect multiple types of gear due to companions.

[LifeOfMessiah]

I'm very considerate when running FPs. I always ask before rolling need on any item for companions. Unfortunately, most groups say NO NEED ROLLS FOR COMPANIONS. In fact I've yet to see a group that was ok with it. This kind of sucks, cause when everyone greed rolls and random person gets the item, they're probably just going to vendor it for a few measly credits when I could have gave it to my companion for a huge upgrade.

 

TLDR: The loot system in this game sucks, especially considering every player is trying to collect multiple types of gear due to companions.

 

Yeah, as a general rule, I don't really need for companions. I just let them have my hand-me-downs when I get better gear. But I don't necessarily have a problem with someone needing for their companion.

[DarthNemis]

The guy that needed on your piece of gear is garbage and should be blacklisted by the community.

[Rotny]

What about another button added: need for companion?

This goes before greed and after need. So if no one needs, it goes to companion roll, if no one rolls companion, it goes to greed.

[Maccaroth]

If you dont like it unsub or play something else. I need the mods or the gear for my companion get over it. Complain to BW cause they really care what happens in this game or you being cry baby over something you can just get on another time through.

There is another option than "play something else". I think I'm a lucky person because very rare it happens when I'm in group of people that are interested in hijacking every equipment they see. Once I encountered person which used need option for equipment she cant use. There was a huge discussion about it and that person apologized for it.

 

Strange for me that the "needers" say to the people that are arguing with them "go somewhere else", "stop crying". It's not an argument in this discussion. If you make a group and honestly say "there are no rules for loot in here", I'm okay with it. I think the best option is just don't cross the paths between people that are common with need, and with those who don't like it. Less nerves and arguments for everyone.

 

Logically speaking it is better for everyone not to make need all the time. Because then you get equipment when you want it most, and you will usually get it. If you take need, others will do it too. So in the end everybody will need on every occasion. You can have a bad luck and get nothing, cause you only have 25% chance of success. Mostly it will end with everyone getting equipment they didn't actually need, so Inquisitor will get a blaster, and agent a lightsaber. Looting will become a lottery. Even when you need something for your companion you can greed, so others will do it too. The same thing happens when all players select need in your way of solving the problem, so it will be exactly the same ending. It works fine for me, cause every time I got gear I needed.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Maccaroth

[ispanolfw]

No ..mods provide the stats and are of primary importance.

 

You are correct. orange gear is merely about cosmetics ...but that's not nearly as important.

 

Again ..you want that look ...go back later and farm for it.

 

..to me, the fact that an item is modable is just gravy over the beef.

 

Primary importance to YOU. And that's the thing, just because YOU place so much importance on stats, doesn't mean everyone does. Some people play this game and prioritize looks far more than stats. I for one do not, but looks come a close second.

 

And that's the whole point, you say "this is more important" and want to say other people should follow that mindset too. That's pretty much what is meant by trying to force your opinion on them.

 

You say "needing" or looks is a want. Thing is, with no clear definition from BioWare what is allowed to be a need, just that everyone has the ability to do so, need/want is subjective. What that means is, if you're hitting need for the stats and player 2 is hitting need for looks, you are BOTH "wanting" the item. You can say you NEED it and he doesn't, but he can say the same thing about you. You say they should go farm it later.... same to you, you want it THAT much YOU can go farm it later.

 

Just because you prioritize your Characters stats above all else, doe snot mean you are allowed to force that view on others.

[ispanolfw]

There is another option than "play something else". I think I'm a lucky person because very rare it happens when I'm in group of people that are interested in hijacking every equipment they see. Once I encountered person which used need option for equipment she cant use. There was a huge discussion about it and that person apologized for it.

 

Strange for me that the "needers" say to the people that are arguing with them "go somewhere else", "stop crying". It's not an argument in this discussion. If you make a group and honestly say "there are no rules for loot in here", I'm okay with it. I think the best option is just don't cross the paths between people that are common with need, and with those who don't like it. Less nerves and arguments for everyone.

 

Logically speaking it is better for everyone not to make need all the time. Because then you get equipment when you want it most, and you will usually get it. If you take need, others will do it too. So in the end everybody will need on every occasion. You can have a bad luck and get nothing, cause you only have 25% chance of success. Mostly it will end with everyone getting equipment they didn't actually need, so Inquisitor will get a blaster, and agent a lightsaber. Looting will become a lottery. Even when you need something for your companion you can greed, so others will do it too. The same thing happens when all players select need in your way of solving the problem, so it will be exactly the same ending. It works fine for me, cause every time I got gear I needed.

 

Oi, the point i've been trying to make is that the people who want more restrictive loot rules for the run. Like say Only IAs can need for Cunning Gear, YOU should be the one speaking up. Basically if someone sees the system, and doesn't ADD ANYTHING, everyone can roll how they like. That's what the system is. So again, if you want more restrictions, then fine, say so.

 

Do you understand why I am pushing this back on you and the others who want the restrictions? I'm fine with with the system as is, I don't follow it myself, but I understand why it's impartial like it is. If you want to add your morals, social rules, restrictions or whatever, say so. YOU are the one wanting to CHANGE the system, not I, i'm ok with it as is, even if I don't follow it.

 

And i'm also not advocating someone just roll need on everything because they can. But that because they can, they can do so for things they feel they need.

[Setanian]

The guy that needed on your piece of gear is garbage and should be blacklisted by the community.

 

It only becomes "your gear" if you won it. You get your chance to roll, if you win, great now the item is yours, if you lose, move along.

[ispanolfw]

Doesn't change the fact that aesthetics are not a need.

 

And why is this? Because you say so? This is the crux of the problem. You feel stats should always trump anything else, and that's fine. The problem isn't that, the problem is you saying everyone else should feel that way too, and if they don;t, then too bad their "need" isn't really a need. Wait, what? You don't make those decisions for others, for yourself sure, but not others. Do you see where i'm going with this?

 

And for the umpteenth time, I don't advocate rolling need on everything just because you can. But I also don't advocate telling someone they cannot hit need because you don't think their reason for needing is good enough. If they truly feel they need it, they are given the chance to roll as they see fit. And if you don't like that and want specific loot rules contrary to the system in place, speak up before the run. You can say it's an unwritten rule or whatnot, but that's the issue, the system works the way it does, it's the absolute. If you're not fine with the absolute as is, you really should be the one speaking up.

Edited January 29, 2012 by ispanolfw