No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Grecanis]

Do your in-game desires trump mine? If so, why?

 

No they don't ..desire = want and the item should be greeded on. I'll do that ..how about you?

[Setanian]

Oh really? What does your raid group think about that? lol

 

Allow me to clarify: say a Light robe drops, with WP and End, good upgrade for your healer, and there are no other clothies in the group. Guess what? The healer is more deserving of that gear than anyone else in the group.

 

The guild and community you are part of is a complete joke, if they allow you to ninja gear in raids.

 

This all incorrect too.. In the stated case, the robe is more 'suited' to the healer. But, others may want it for their companions. The only thing the healers deserved, was a roll and the loot, which they always get.

 

I have asked you multiple times to backup this use of 'ninja' but you have failed. You are well capable of using gutter trash talk, but completely unable to backup your arguments with any form of definition or proof.

[desertwolph]

Oh really? What does your raid group think about that? lol

 

Allow me to clarify: say a Light robe drops, with WP and End, good upgrade for your healer, and there are no other clothies in the group. Guess what? The healer is more deserving of that gear than anyone else in the group.

 

The guild and community you are part of is a complete joke, if they allow you to ninja gear in raids.

 

 

Well, if I don't need it it probably won't be an issue, would it?

 

But, if armor dropped and someone other than me needed it and claimed it was his because of blah blah blah, I will still be rolling.

 

I'm not a jerk about it, and have passed on lots of gear. But, I will feel no shame on rolling on things in a game that I need.

[Setanian]

No they don't ..desire = want and the item should be greeded on. I'll do that ..how about you?

 

I have already stated my style above, but for the record. If I 'need' it I need if I don't I greed. That's my choice, not someone else's.

[sjmc]

1) First, orange gear needs to drop for each player without mods loaded for all bosses.

2) Second, mods should be roll/pass, and no stats locked until whoever wins the roll takes it. For example, a +20/20 End Mod that is cunning if a BH wins, strength if a Jugg wins, and Wisdom if a Sorc wins. Making these roll/pass to avoid issues about your use for it.

3) Third, make competitive and tailored companion gear available along with customization. Your current system basically makes people have to gear themselves twice and it's inevitable that some people will try to do that through FP or OP loot.

4) Finally, lock all blue and purple content to specific classes.

 

Or we can just roll need on what we need and roll greed on what we want to sell.

 

I like the dynamic of companion gear. They wear the same gear as players so that we can get gear for them from the same place as players. The unwritten rules from previous games might not cover the new mechanics introduced in the this game -- this doesn't mean we need to fix the game to match the rules. It means the rules can evolve to work in a new game.

 

Similarly orange gear gives us much more opportunity to differentiate our characters from each other, rather than have everyone simply wear the item that has the best stats for a particular level (did that ever happen in WoW?). Since they are modifiable, you aren't restricted to wearing gear that was designed primarily for your class.

 

This is a new game. Some of the old rules can be applied to a new situation, but some of them may need to be modified to account for new game mechanics.

Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc
accidentally omitted the quote when first posted

[face_hindu]

This all incorrect too.. In the stated case, the robe is more 'suited' to the healer. But, others may want it for their companions. The only thing the healers deserved, was a roll and the loot, which they always get.

 

I have asked you multiple times to backup this use of 'ninja' but you have failed. You are well capable of using gutter trash talk, but completely unable to backup your arguments with any form of definition or proof.

 

You just defined it. Others want it, the healer needs it. Anyone but the healer clicks "Need" in this case, they are ninjas. Call it what you want. Thieves, scum, douchebags, chumps, noobs.

 

You do this, you're a GOOF.

[Setanian]

You just defined it. Others want it, the healer needs it. Anyone but the healer clicks "Need" in this case, they are ninjas. Call it what you want. Thieves, scum, douchebags, chumps, noobs.

 

You do this, you're a GOOF.

 

Well that's entirely your opinion. Not one I agree with.

[Grecanis]

I have already stated my style above, but for the record. If I 'need' it I need if I don't I greed. That's my choice, not someone else's.

 

Which brings us back to some folks inability to differentiate between a want and a need.

 

IMO, just because an orange item is modable doesnt negate the basic tenet inherent in a mechanic that is based on an honor system.

[owenthorn]

Who are you talking about? Since your using the queue reference it feels like you're talking about me, have I tried to push my believes on someone? Who? Where? In any case calling anyone pathetic is not nice and you shouldn't do that

 

(See what i did there? )

 

 

not about you, just the line as an example

[sjmc]

I think appearance is a legitimate need if you are on an RP server, and especially on RP-PVP servers. Are you allowed to RP on non-RP servers? Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc

[xDagurasu]

Need if you need, greed if you don't. Ask your party if they care if you can need on something that maybe isn't an upgrade for you, but maybe your companion or if you just like the style of said item.

 

Just seems like good manners and common sense.

Edited January 29, 2012 by xDagurasu

[Grecanis]

I think appearance is a legitimate need if you are on an RP server, and especially on RP-PVP servers. Are you allowed to RP on non-RP servers?

 

I would disagree. RP server or not, wanting to look stylish is still wanting to look stylish.

[sjmc]

I would disagree. RP server or not, wanting to look stylish is still wanting to look stylish.

Looking stylish is the point of orange gear. The mods are interchangeable.

 

Perhaps having the mods drop separately from the gear would be a good idea.

Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc

[Grecanis]

Looking stylish is the point of orange gear. The mods are interchangeable.

 

How does that change my point?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Grecanis

[AsheraII]

I would disagree. RP server or not, wanting to look stylish is still wanting to look stylish.

Since most of the people here who claim a cosmetic upgrade is not a reason to roll need, I guess people shouldn't roll need when a tiger or raptor dropped in ZG in their previous game?

 

I actually passed on both in PuGs during Vanilla, in case you wonder about that, never had either one untill I solo farmed it long after Vanilla, yet I was a mount collector during early vanilla already, when each faction still had its own riding skill and the mounts still cost more than the skill itself.

[SnoggyMack]

How does that change my point?

 

Person can roll need on an item that they want and intend to use. Their reason for wanting this item matches up with the reason that someone else wants the item. Both characters want to equip the item. Both roll need. One of them wins. The winner is happy and equips the item.

 

The loser is mad and angry and makes a thread like this on the forums.

[Grecanis]

Since most of the people here who claim a cosmetic upgrade is not a reason to roll need, I guess people shouldn't roll need when a tiger or raptor dropped in ZG in their previous game?

 

I actually passed on both in PuGs during Vanilla, in case you wonder about that, never had either one untill I solo farmed it long after Vanilla, yet I was a mount collector during early vanilla already, when each faction still had its own riding skill and the mounts still cost more than the skill itself.

 

Same applies ...if it's not needed ..roll greed.

 

I'm betting that most of the loot jawa's in this game cut thier teeth on it over there.

[sjmc]

How does that change my point?

The point is that you might need that particular orange item for a particular look. You don't need those particular mods to get the stat upgrades you want. Mods are available all over (I am pretty sure crafters can make them?). That particular orange piece of gear might not be.

 

I am not saying you shouldn't roll need for the mods. Go right ahead.

 

If I am going to equip the item and use it going forward, that's "need".

If I am going to sell it or give it to some other character, that's "greed"

 

I would probably not roll need for an orange item where only one of the mods was an upgrade if someone else expressed interest in the whole item (although if he was a different class than the upgrade I needed, I might ask to have that particular mod if it can be split).

Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc

[ColonelKer-Nal]

The problem here is that there is a choice at all.

 

Need/Greed needs to be removed from player choice. This eliminates issues like the one under discussion, and all the associated drama with said issues.

 

Have a simple percentile roll (1-100), if any of the "parts" are better than any of your parts add 25 to the roll. If the gear is better than something your companion is wearing, even by 1 point, add 50 to the roll. If the gear is better than what you're wearing, even by one point, add 100 to the roll.

 

High roll wins the gear.

 

There is absolutely ZERO need for player interaction on this.

[AsheraII]

How does that change my point?

Because the mods are of secondary importance on that orange gear. If you're worth even the least bit of grain, you should have two out of three of those mods installed in your leveling gear already.

 

Orange gear is all about cosmetics. You better get used to it. The mods can be easily made by about any artificer/cybertech, and are widely available on the GTN and from Commendations. Mods better than that are available from the same sources except commendations, by the way.

 

Stats take presedence on green, blue and purple gear.

Cosmetics take presedence on Orange gear.

[face_hindu]

The problem here is that there is a choice at all.

 

Need/Greed needs to be removed from player choice. This eliminates issues like the one under discussion, and all the associated drama with said issues.

 

Have a simple percentile roll (1-100), if any of the "parts" are better than any of your parts add 25 to the roll. If the gear is better than something your companion is wearing, even by 1 point, add 50 to the roll. If the gear is better than what you're wearing, even by one point, add 100 to the roll.

 

High roll wins the gear.

 

There is absolutely ZERO need for player interaction on this.

 

I think a weighted roll is a good idea.

[Grecanis]

Person can roll need on an item that they want and intend to use. Their reason for wanting this item matches up with the reason that someone else wants the item. Both characters want to equip the item. Both roll need. One of them wins. The winner is happy and equips the item.

 

The loser is mad and angry and makes a thread like this on the forums.

 

So you advocate rolling need on something you merely want?

 

IMO you both would be in the wrong.

[notebene]

I still think they ought to use the mission reward system for bosses. If you are in a group that downs a boss, ya'll get a mission reward, which is 2 random items from it's loot table, and you pick. Everyone wins, no fighting. The mechanic exists.

 

If that is an 'omg market fl00dz0rz', then drop an item to the ground when a boss dies that is clickable (or the body itself). Someone clicks it, starts a conversation, everyone gets a conversation roll, whoever wins gets whatever comes up.

 

I personally like the first idea.

 

Granted, neither idea produces the "I winz0rz; you l00z1z haha pwn!" effect - and sadly, I think that is the underpinning of the whole need/greed thing. Many of you don't want everyone to be a piece of the pie. Many of you get enjoyment out of someone else's loss. And that's a little sad.

 

Hungry. Time for an everything bagel!

[Grecanis]

Because the mods are of secondary importance on that orange gear. If you're worth even the least bit of grain, you should have two out of three of those mods installed in your leveling gear already.

 

Orange gear is all about cosmetics. You better get used to it. The mods can be easily made by about any artificer/cybertech, and are widely available on the GTN and from Commendations. Mods better than that are available from the same sources except commendations, by the way.

 

Stats take presedence on green, blue and purple gear.

Cosmetics take presedence on Orange gear.

 

No ..mods provide the stats and are of primary importance.

 

You are correct. orange gear is merely about cosmetics ...but that's not nearly as important.

 

Again ..you want that look ...go back later and farm for it.

 

..to me, the fact that an item is modable is just gravy over the beef.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Grecanis

[Dizzident]

Tons of people seem to be on the mindset 'hey man I can roll so I roll'.

 

And that's why we don't need cross-server LFG tools. So the i-d-i-o-t-s can be blacklisted and KoS'ed, and the players on a server can police this kind of stuff themselves, freeing BW from having to waste time for implementing a-s-s-proof looting measures.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Dizzident