Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Ethern]

I've watched this thread go well passed 200+ pages and it seems to go in waves. You'll get a lot of healthy discussion, and someone will pop in and rant against it without even bothering to read the Dev's first post. Then it devolves back into this rabble like the last couple of pages.

It happened to every LFD threads that emerged since the early access. That's the internet.

[FerrusPA]

There isn't much left to say about this. We need something that's better than the system we have now at the very least. The game is easy enough pre-50 so that you never really need a group but once you want to do endgame stuff it gets difficult to even find a normal FP group.

 

Although I suspect this might also be due to people starting 53467236 alts instead of leveling to 50.

Edited January 29, 2012 by FerrusPA

[MalignX]

Agreed and agreed to both.

[FerrusPA]

I mean seriously there's 200 people in the fleet right now and all I ever see is "LFG Black Talon norm!!!11" or "LFM Athiss".

[MalignX]

I mean seriously there's 200 people in the fleet right now and all I ever see is "LFG Black Talon norm!!!11" or "LFM Athiss".

 

Hammer Station, even as Heals, four days and two runs. Lots of that was sitting here spamming LFG and commenting on this thread. Hammer Station is a lvl 17 Flash Point..

[Nitewolfe]

No the truth is in the pudding so to speak. The people that want a Cross Server LFD tool dont want to be in guilds at all. They do not want to socialize, they choose to play the game the same as a lobby game or a single player game. Its the same thing. MMOs are either a Lobby game or a single player game. Therefore Guilds should be your way of progression.

 

Completely wrong.

I am pro cross server lfd and i always end up in raiding guilds in these games.

Guilds for me are for raid progression even in wow with the LFR i still need my guilds (i am in several across different servers) to progress in the hardmode content which is not available in the lfr.

 

Once again your saying people like me do not want to socialize which is completely false. You seem to be incapable to realize that we are the social ones you are the anti social ones!

People are people and playing with them even one time is social interaction and you walk away from it with your game play being enriched from the experience good or bad!

[Touchbass]

Awww. It's starting to devolve again.

 

 

I'm gonna have to pick on you for a second MalignX, we're on the same side so hopefully you won't get offended by it Devolve is not a word, you cannot devolve. I know it's tempting to equate moving backwards with "devolving" but that's still considered an evolution cause any movement is considered moving towards agoal which is in itself an evolution. Hopefully that made some sense

Edited January 29, 2012 by Touchbass

[Nitewolfe]

Yea and the /ignore function means Dick if the LFD tool is cross server. If its server only there is already a Limited amount of people to play with, if you are limited even more because you are an ****** then it its affective.

 

Aww another person with control issues.. Its not enough that the /ignore will stop that player ever having a effect on YOU. You demand that you have the ability to control that player completely even with other people!

[MalignX]

I'm gonna have to pick on you for a second MalignX, we're on the same side so hopefully you won't get offended by it Devolve is not a word, you cannot devolve. I know it's tempting to equate moving backwards with "devolving" but that's still considered an evolution cause any movement is considered moving towards agoal which is in itself an evolution. Hopefully that made some sense

 

de·volve

verb \di-ˈvälv, -ˈvȯlv, dē-\

de·volvedde·volv·ing

Definition of DEVOLVE

transitive verb

: to pass on (as responsibility, rights, or powers) from one person or entity to another <devolving to western Europe full responsibility for its own defense — Christopher Lane>

intransitive verb

1

a : to pass by transmission or succession <the estate devolved on a distant cousin> b : to fall or be passed usually as a responsibility or obligation <the responsibility for breadwinning has devolved increasingly upon women — Barbara Ehrenreich>

2

: to come by or as if by flowing down <his allegedly subversive campaigns…devolve from his belief in basic American rights — Frank Deford>

3

: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution <where order devolves into chaos — Johns Hopkins Magazine>

See devolve defined for English-language learners »

Examples of DEVOLVE

 

She cynically asserts that our species is devolving.

Somehow the debate devolved into a petty competition to see who could get more applause.

Community leaders hope that the new government will devolve more power to the community itself.

Responsibility has devolved to the individual teachers.

 

Origin of DEVOLVE

Middle English, from Latin devolvere, from de- + volvere to roll — more at voluble

First Known Use: 15th century

Related to DEVOLVE

Synonyms: atrophy, crumble, decay, decline, degenerate, descend, deteriorate, ebb, regress, retrograde, rot, sink, worsen

Antonyms: ameliorate, improve, meliorate

[+]more

Rhymes with DEVOLVE

absolve, convolve, dissolve, evolve, involve, resolve, revolve

 

Not offended at all.

Edited January 29, 2012 by MalignX

[Neiloch]

Completely wrong.

I am pro cross server lfd and i always end up in raiding guilds in these games.

Guilds for me are for raid progression even in wow with the LFR i still need my guilds (i am in several across different servers) to progress in the hardmode content which is not available in the lfr.

 

Once again your saying people like me do not want to socialize which is completely false. You seem to be incapable to realize that we are the social ones you are the anti social ones!

People are people and playing with them even one time is social interaction and you walk away from it with your game play being enriched from the experience good or bad!

 

This is how I work as well. I don't want to be locked into a clique of my guild for every little thing, especially if I am raiding on a schedule. I already play with these people a GUARANTEED several hours a week, a DF tool to meet some completely new people is great.

 

Any accusation that people who want a DF want it so they don't have to be in a guild is silly. That is unless they don't want to be in a 'wal-mart' guild which is completely understandable imo. Matter of fact last night while I was in a HM the 3 other people were talking about how their guilds are lacking members but they is no way in hell they will join a 'wal-mart' guild. You know, one that invites indiscriminately and has 200+ people.

 

The people who want others forced to be in a guild are anti-social.

 

Just because you get on every night chat away and play with people doesn't mean you are social when they are the same exact people every time. I'll give anyone a chance and group with them, this would be the MMO equivalent of a 'social butterfly' while people who will only group with guildees are in a closed off 'clique', about as anti-social as you can get without cutting off everyone completely.

 

Seriously saying tight knit guilds who interact with one another almost exclusively are more social than people who do PUGs is like saying joining a sequestered cult is more social than going to random parties every weekend.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

Basically you think this game should be a game were Guilds do not matter. This is not an argument for an MMO. If you dont want a guild and want to just randomly play an Single Player or a Mutliplayer game is for you. NOT an MMO.

 

I don't believe anyone is saying guilds shouldn't matter, what people are saying is I don't want to be left for dead if i don't have the support of a guild. Every problem with group finding affairs your solution is finding a guild that works around that. I don't think that's feasible, or in the more relative terms people don't want those solutions.

 

You have your way of playing that works for you but seem to be blind that others the game differently and enjoy it. You can't mold someone into your way of thinking, especially not in a video game. This is not a battle you can win at all I'm afraid, advocates of the X-LFD started long before the X-LFD was even conceived and they were beseighed with a lot of hate, more so then even in this game. In the end they were pushed out with their tails between their legs, the same will happen in here I'm afraid.

[Touchbass]

de·volve

verb \di-ˈvälv, -ˈvȯlv, dē-\

de·volvedde·volv·ing

Definition of DEVOLVE

transitive verb

: to pass on (as responsibility, rights, or powers) from one person or entity to another <devolving to western Europe full responsibility for its own defense — Christopher Lane>

intransitive verb

.

 

I could of sworn it wasn't a word. Odd. The more you know!

 

P.S. Help me get my foot out of my mouth it appears to be stuck

[MalignX]

I could of sworn it wasn't a word. Odd. The more you know!

 

P.S. Help me get my foot out of my mouth it appears to be stuck

 

My foot lives in my mouth, apart from the times I'm spewing hatevomit at idiot anti-LFGers. Heh.

[Neiloch]

Yes a Server only LFD tool will help Small guilds fill gaps. However a Cross Server LFD tool makes guilds obsolete. Just look at WoW, guilds are not raiding even as much now with a LFR tool. Most people just queue for a raid now. Fewer and fewer guilds bothering to raid together.

 

LFD tool should be server only.

 

You can't use LFR as a argument against LFD, you are reaching.

 

I am done arguing with you Navarh. You have no logic to your arguments, you just want the game your way. Not what the game is suppose to be and what MMOs are about. If you dont like it there is the Door. To me you are a waste of time

 

One question. Who the HELL are you to say what MMO's are 'supposed to be?' You are one of the devs? No? Then hush. Also PLEASE explain to me how wanting to group with as many other PEOPLE as possible is NOT being social. Please point to me where it says MMO's and big successful guilds are forever tied and without one the other can not or should not exist.

 

I say again: If your preferred style is made obsolete because no one else is participating, all that means is those other people played that way because they had no better option, not because they preferred it.

 

If the only way to get groups is to smash my hand repeatedly my options are to quit or smash my hand. Just because people stick around and smash their hand to get groups doesn't mean that is their ideal way of getting groups.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

Yes a Server only LFD tool will help Small guilds fill gaps. However a Cross Server LFD tool makes guilds obsolete. Just look at WoW, guilds are not raiding even as much now with a LFR tool. Most people just queue for a raid now. Fewer and fewer guilds bothering to raid together.

 

LFD tool should be server only.

 

I guess that means nobody likes being a guild as much as you think, shocking eh? When I was raiding back in the day I noticed tons of players in many guilds only log in for raid nights. If your guilds aren't strong enough to withstand the X-LFD and LFR then I guess it's time for those specific guilds to go.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

There isn't much left to say about this. We need something that's better than the system we have now at the very least. The game is easy enough pre-50 so that you never really need a group but once you want to do endgame stuff it gets difficult to even find a normal FP group.

 

Although I suspect this might also be due to people starting 53467236 alts instead of leveling to 50.

 

I think this is one of the causes, cause honestly this game has very little 'vaccum factor' to pull me in. I'm only level 33, i have no desire to be lvl 50 cause there isn't really anything to do from what I've heard.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Touchbass

[Neiloch]

I guess that means nobody likes being a guild as much as you think, shocking eh? When I was raiding back in the day I noticed tons of players in many guilds only log in for raid nights. If your guilds aren't strong enough to withstand the X-LFD and LFR then I guess it's time for those specific guilds to go.

 

Exactly this. If those people TRULY wanted to be in a guild, they would have stuck around. Being in a guild was the best option available to them, but not the ideal option.

 

This means by making guilds needed you are forcing people to be in certain guilds to progress who don't want to be in those guilds, and just want to progress. Do you really want people in your guild 'pretending' to give a crap just so they can get progression?

 

If people are leaving guilds because of LFD its not because they think LFD is a worse option.

[MalignX]

I think this is one of the causes, cause honestly this game has very little 'vaccum factor' to pull me in. I'm only level 33, i have desire to be lvl 50 cause there isn't really anything to do from what I've heard.

 

50 was a joke to get to if you really wanted to, and then you get there and there's what? 7 dailies in Ilum (That are a bit of a beating after the 9th time fyi), space battles, or Flashpoint Dailies.. Oh ya that's right, at 50 they have rewards for running Flash Points.. if you can get a group together.. doh..

[Nitewolfe]

This is how I work as well. I don't want to be locked into a clique of my guild for every little thing, especially if I am raiding on a schedule. I already play with these people a GUARANTEED several hours a week, a DF tool to meet some completely new people is great.

 

Any accusation that people who want a DF want it so they don't have to be in a guild is silly. That is unless they don't want to be in a 'wal-mart' guild which is completely understandable imo. Matter of fact last night while I was in a HM the 3 other people were talking about how their guilds are lacking members but they is no way in hell they will join a 'wal-mart' guild. You know, one that invites indiscriminately and has 200+ people.

 

The people who want others forced to be in a guild are anti-social.

 

Just because you get on every night chat away and play with people doesn't mean you are social when they are the same exact people every time. I'll give anyone a chance and group with them, this would be the MMO equivalent of a 'social butterfly' while people who will only group with guildees are in a closed off 'clique', about as anti-social as you can get without cutting off everyone completely.

 

Seriously saying tight knit guilds who interact with one another almost exclusively are more social than people who do PUGs is like saying joining a sequestered cult is more social than going to random parties every weekend.

 

Ill add to that.

Even in guilds a cross server lfd tool is needed. Example we had a guild issue last night.

We had 20 people on line most of which are still leveling their first character.

10 of us are level 50. 8 of us are raid ready and in fact raiding together while the rest of the guild gets to raid ready status.

So last night those 8 of us are working on hardmode EV after we cleared the normal mode hut zone.

That left 2 level 50's in guild that wanted to run flashpoints and could not do it via guild.

They tried to form a group via chat and had zero luck. They both logged out a hour later. One of them stated as they logged out.. I hate being level 50 there is nothing to do!

 

I know this feeling since if its not raid time i just level alts after i get my dailies done.

I dont see this changing much as the game matures.

Max group size is 16 so there are going to be people that are not in the main raid groups.

The guild cant help those people at all since the guild as a whole are busy inside raid zones and cant run flashpoints with the left out ones.

 

Being in a super guild would help some but then super guilds rarely have good raid progression.

[XxPetexX]

Hell no to Cross server. It brings out the *** in everybody. There is no accountability for ones actions, nothing. I mean if you can't find 3 other friends to do something with, you don't deserve to be in the flashpoints anyway.

 

With cross server, people will then start ************ because content is too hard for the pug group, so it gets nerfed. People just are able to be even bigger douches because they are even more anonymous since its random servers.

 

Cross server ruined the community in wow. I watched it happen, you can cry all you want that it did't, but it did. LFR is even worse, it completely killed the game for me and everybody I know. There is no enjoyment in the game anymore(WoW).

 

Quit being so damned lazy.

 

It's got absolutley nothing to do with ppl being lazy.

 

Some ppl however don't have all the time in the world to play games, even if we enjoy it we have other obligations that must take priority.

 

And even if some ppl don't want to spend hours just spamming LFG, that's because it's not FUN. Not that they are lazy. A game should be about having fun.

 

You are operating on the idea that everyone who doesn't view games in the same way as you do are wrong and not as important as you are.

[Neiloch]

Being in a super guild would help some but then super guilds rarely have good raid progression.

 

Any time I have ever joined one of those 'super guilds' it has been a bad experience. No unpleasant events occurred, just always seemed like a huge waste of time. People would always try and schedule odd events like giant groups to run things like dailies. Arrange to do content on their lower level alts, or roll new characters completely and level them up together. Anyone doing things meaningful at 50 already have their static groups/cliques arranged and there is no more room.

[Metalmac]

PVE Raids in this game just do not exist at all.

 

No one is doing raids on my server and can not find anyone that sees in the future they will.

 

The easy access to PVP RNG gear and re rolling toons at low level to stay OP is number 1 now.

 

SWTOR fails at helping or promoting RAIDING. The problem is they made raiding complicated

 

But made PVP easy stupid.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Metalmac

[BlueSkittles]

http://tor-talk.com/the-dungeon-finder-debate/

-Link doesn't work.

 

http://tornetwork.net/tag/dungeon-finder/

-No new info.

 

http://www.machiavelliscat.com/lioreblog/2011/12/28/the-cast-against-lf/

-Addressed below.

 

Many believe that a Cross server LFD tool is bad, even devs from BW.

 

"In LFD, the people in our groups were of no more value than digitized sprites." Quote from the last article. And I have to say a big **** YOU to anyone that feels that way. So I'm a "digitized sprite". Go back to playing...oh wait, you can't. All games have moved on, into the wonderful future of accessibility and fun. Stop trying to keep this game sucking for group play.

 

And a great comment from that article: "If other people are less inclined to run stuff with you because it’s easier/more convenient to do stuff with random people… what does that say about how much they wanted to socialize?"

Edited January 29, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Touchbass]

I just wanted to shed some light on something people haven't touched on yet. There are some losers in the whole X-LFD debate, it isn't a simple win-win solution.

 

1) DPS queues go up for some, down for mostly everybody. Ever hear of people who say there queues went up after X-LFD was released, they weren't lying. The reason why there queues were so short was because mostly everybody else gave up looking for a group out of faustration or they where on a particulary good server that was very active.

 

2) People who enjoy being needed. What I mean is say you log on everyday at 7pm, you were met with a plothera of tells and invites to groups, you had a place on the server if you played enough. The problem is that most people didn't play that much to reach that kind of recognition. The X-LFD changed the philosophy of needing people to advance to being able to depend on yourself to play the game. Some people like this, some people don't.

 

3) Those who enjoyed imposing social justice on people. With X-LFD you could no longer go on a personal vendetta to ruin someones play experience who didn't play by the rules from which you subscribed yourself too. Again, people are divided on this.

 

That's about all I can think of, miss anything?

[MalignX]

I just wanted to shed some light on something people haven't touched on yet. There are some losers in the whole X-LFD debate, it isn't a simple win-win solution.

 

1) DPS queues go up for some, down for mostly everybody. Ever hear of people who say there queues went up after X-LFD was released, they weren't lying. The reason why there queues were so short was because mostly everybody else gave up looking for a group out of faustration or they where on a particulary good server that was very active.

 

2) People who enjoy being needed. What I mean is say you log on everyday at 7pm, you were met with a plothera of tells and invites to groups, you had a place on the server if you played enough. The problem is that most people didn't play that much to reach that kind of recognition. The X-LFD changed the philosophy of needing people to advance to being able to depend on yourself to play the game. Some people like this, some people don't.

 

3) Those who enjoyed imposing social justice on people. With X-LFD you could no longer go on a personal vendetta to ruin someones play experience who didn't play by the rules from which you subscribed yourself too. Again, people are divided on this.

 

That's about all I can think of, miss anything?

 

By some posters rationale I could state these three FACTS:

 

1) Bioware and SWTOR are anti-guild because they do not make you join a guild when you start playing the game.

2) Bioware and SWTOR are pro-ninja because they allow Need rolls on all gear.

3) If you can't role play you can't play this game because it's clearly labeled a MMORPG.

Edited January 29, 2012 by MalignX