Love Star Wars…Love Bioware…Love MMO’s…not sure I love SW+BIO+MMO

[djsmileey]

Let me preface this by saying, I am a fan of this game; not sure how big a fan yet, but I think it has some serious potential, but it misses some key things that I fail to understand the directions taken.

Also to preface, I have over 16 years MMO experience as both a consumer and tester. I won’t name all the names, but that should give you some perspective.

So lets get to it.

 

I want to love this game, I really do. I’ve been following it for many years and was very excited to begin my beta testing so long ago. As I’ve tested, commented, suggested, and documented many things; I feel there are some fundamental inequalities about this game that baffles me as to why the choices made were made.

 

Game Mechanics

 

At its core, this is a single player RPG game with some grouping options, no way around this. It is a VERY GOOD single player game, but single player non-the-less. The need to group for anything is completely non-existent. You can group if you want, but from level 1 to max, it is not needed at all.

The instancing and sharding of map areas is completely out of hand. It makes everywhere you go seem very empty and very quiet. It’s like this; say you have a planet with 100 players on it, but you segregate them into 10 different instances, be it a city, spaceport, ship, building or whatever.

When you adventure around, you may only ever see 2 people out of the “maybe” 10 people in your entire instance area, making everywhere you go seem very empty. Now that is just a small sampling example, but you get the picture.

 

The chat system is very archaic for an MMO whos purpose should be to bring people together. Along the lines of instancing, your ability to speak to other people is crippled by the instance you happen to be in. You cannot chat to anyone on another planet or in a flashpoint or anything for that matter unless you speak to someone directly (/whisper) or you are in their current guild. This again makes the worlds seem empty and too quiet.

 

It’s very surprising to me to see such old or completely left out features like UI adjustment, LFD tools, trade-skill disparity (or usefulness), GTN (auction house) interface and sorting; there are many others people have mentioned, so no need to list them all again.

Now some people don’t care for some of these things, but that doesn’t excuse the absence of them for a game of modern MMO production. These things are meant to bring people together, but as they stand, they only further separate them.

 

Space. What can be said here? Although I sometimes enjoy the little arcade shooter they’ve come up with, it quickly becomes boring and predictable to the point of taking little to no interest in it. I really wish they went with a better system for open space combat (maybe in future expansions). I also wish they went with the idea that your personal spaceship was like your home, with the ability to design and decorate the interior, display personal trophies earned in the game and things like that.

Although housing is not necessary in a game, it does add a lot of personal satisfaction for people and keeps people coming back for more, even if only to decorate.

 

The dynamics of the game world vs the story don’t seem to matter at all. For example, you can complete a mission that has you take over a facility or re-arrange the aspects of an area, but as soon as you exit that instance, everything is set back to the way it was before you ever got there; as if nothing your character just did made any impact on the story. I don’t understand why the use of phasing technology was not employed here to actually change the story to your perspective but leave it alone to others.

 

Which brings me to…

 

Replay-ability

 

I think this game has a massive vacuum in replay-ability as its designed; here’s why.

The 8 stories as presented are great and do a good job in getting the player involved in the character. The problem is, once you’ve experienced the grand story, your character is basically done. There is nothing left to do but enter in the raid or pvp game.

Now this is inevitable for high level characters, they will eventually run out of content to immerse themselves in, so to alleviate this, making alts should be a fun experience to see something different.

You won’t.

Aside from the one story line of the new alt, you will experience exactly the same missions and planets as any other character. There is no alternate route to take, no different plants with same-level content to see. You will follow the same linear path and do all the same things you just did.

 

Which brings me to…

 

Game Production

 

I cannot believe how much money this game cost to make, time involved to make it, and state it is currently in.

Now I know the plan here is to make money, that’s what a company is for. What I can’t perceive is why the direction of this game was taken to such a single-player experience when it was released as an MMO. Let me explain.

It seems to me like way too much money was invested in voice acting and story. Now I love the story lines and think they are very engaging, but I feel having full cut-scenes and voice over for every single mission interaction was a waste of time and money.

Since your are forced to go through the exact same content for every character, I feel the main story arc and possibly the heroic missions (flashpoints included) should have had the full production value of cut-scenes and voice over, but not the standard missions that basically have you kill “x” amount of creatures, push “x” amount of buttons, etc..

 

This brings an interesting problem to future content because of the current design. Because it takes so much money and time to populate a planet with voice acting and cut-scenes, it’s going to take an extremely long time to add new content; and I don’t mean a new flashpoint or pvp arena, I’m talking entire planets or anything of that magnitude.

Now because your characters story basically ends at 50, in order to keep sending you on more missions to exceed the 50 level limit (talking future here), you need to create entire new story lines for 8 classes simultaneously.

I believe real content is going to come very slowly. Unfortunately for many players, it will be too slow for them to wait around and they’ll quickly become bored.

 

 

My worries are many, I know, but justified. I really want to love this game, but I feel my interest in it may only be temporary. Because of the direction the core mechanics of this game has chosen, I feel it may quickly fall into the “niche” market and not go too far into the competitive MMO market. It’s a wonderful single-player game, but it may never get out of that state.

Here’s hoping SWTOR can turn things around and really dominate in this market. I’ll be watching closely, but probably from the side-lines.

 

Happy adventuring to you all.

 

Well thought out review. I can't honestly say that I am experiencing the same disappointments that you are. Many of the areas you find lacking in content or richness; I find excitable and fresh.

 

I guess we have our own opinions.

[jaypis]

OP has some very good points. I'm very interested on how Bioware will handle adding in new content/expansions, specially releasing them in good time. I don't want to wait months for new content, specially after being level 50 for a while.

 

I too wasn't excited about the whole voice-over on every NPC feature. Would have rather they spend the time and money on other features instead of that. As of right now the game just feels like a single player game with added multiplayer.

[fixit]

I've been able to make choices whether it's to kill someone, spare them or take their money and kill the initial quest giver these are far above 'click accept for a quest'.

 

While this seems to make a difference, it really does not. All it means is DS/LS points which are actually easily gained via FPs or Diplomacy and what NPC sends you a mail. Other than that, your choices have almost no impact on the world or stories at all. I played through 3 toons now, approaching them differently and honestly there was no real difference. Also LS/DS levels dont matter much either since all it means is what bike or relic you can get and all those can be replaced by items that have no LS/DS requirements at all.

 

At 50 i'm still enjoying doing flashpoints and pvp so i also am fine with the end game.

 

Have to agree with this still, however gearing up alts in PvP after the recent changes is just frustrating. All the people that had the luxury of farming lowbies and Ilum for easy bags/commendations/valor are now steam rolling new 50s. So essentially there is no point in even trying since gear is a major factor in who wins or loses in PvP. Plus waiting 2+ hours to get rolled by battlemaster premades is just well...no thanks. So all left is grinding FPs and hoping there is room for you in a Op run.

 

Saying there is no hook, screams of someone who hasn't been able to comprehend what people that enjoy the game are saying about it. it doesn't mean you enjoy the same things, but ignoring it is dishonest.

 

The hook in TOR is story, the impressive and really well done single player experience 1-49. After that, it disappears and all that is left is another gear grind game. I would have hoped they would have at the very least took a different spin on that mode of play, but they didn't. /sad

Edited January 28, 2012 by fixit

[TheHeadCapper]

While this seems to make a difference, it really does not. All it means is DS/LS points which are actually easily gained via FPs or Diplomacy and what NPC sends you a mail. Other than that, your choices have absolutely no impact on the world or stories at all. I played through 3 toons now, approaching them differently and honestly there was no real difference.

 

 

I don't really care what affect they have on the world. They affect how i view the character and my interactions with the game. The fact i can make choices about killing someone, sparing them or taking money already gives it more choices than "click accept to gather my boar tusks for soup''.

 

Funny how someone looks at my own personal opinion of why i like the game and proceeds to say "sorry it doesn't matter". Do you have any concept of what an opinion is?

 

Actually it's not funny, it's very sad.

Edited January 28, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Zannis]

I can understand the OP's sentiments, but disagree on two points:

 

First, there is more than one story with alternate class subplots in this game. There are two to be exact, one for each faction. You get the same planets, yes, but told from the other side of the coin. I will concede though that alternative planets along the way would have been an excellent idea, and added a lot of replayability.

 

Secondly, the whole 'most missions don't need a cutscene' aspect doesn't make sense to me. Just because these missions are voiced doesn't mean that Bioware 'skimped' on the content for the 'main' quest lines. If the cutscenes on these 'side' missions bother you, spacebar them.

 

We have no idea what Bioware's timetable is as far as progressing the class story lines. I'm sure that if they wait to do so every two years with an expansion, it will surely turn some players off to the game.

[Andryah]

I am a big fan of the game. Everything in the post is a regurgitation of the things we all have taken note of. One can hope BioWare brings us in the direction we hope to go in. Right now I just enjoy the game as it is and look forward to seeing its evolution. If it ever gets too stale I will simply do something else. Right now its still the great, fun game I expected.

 

/Agree

[Andryah]

I don't really care what affect they have on the world. They affect how i view the character and my interactions with the game. The fact i can make choices about killing someone, sparing them or taking money already gives it more choices than "click accept to gather my boar tusks for soup''.

 

Funny how someone looks at my own personal opinion of why i like the game and proceeds to say "sorry it doesn't matter". Do you have any concept of what an opinion is?

 

Actually it's not funny, it's very sad.

 

/Very-much-agree

[fixit]

Do you have any concept of what an opinion is?

 

Actually it's not funny, it's very sad.

 

Whats even sadder is you make an ironic response. I have my opinion too, but obviously I am not allowed to say it according to you.

Edited January 28, 2012 by fixit

[Nymaeria]

Excellent post OP. I agree with all of it.

 

Dragon Age 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic are the two grey marks on BioWare's otherwise stellar record.

[Tairak]

This brings an interesting problem to future content because of the current design. Because it takes so much money and time to populate a planet with voice acting and cut-scenes, it’s going to take an extremely long time to add new content; and I don’t mean a new flashpoint or pvp arena, I’m talking entire planets or anything of that magnitude.

Now because your characters story basically ends at 50, in order to keep sending you on more missions to exceed the 50 level limit (talking future here), you need to create entire new story lines for 8 classes simultaneously.

I believe real content is going to come very slowly. Unfortunately for many players, it will be too slow for them to wait around and they’ll quickly become bored.

 

There is another problem with future content. The existing storylines are so big and epic (at least from a Jedi Knight perspective, thats the only one that i know how it ends) that i really don´t know how they could ever create another threat that doesn´t look totally irrelevant after what you have done. Too bad i can´t say more without spoiling.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Tairak

[Red_Cruiser]

When I compare SWTOR to single player games like Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex, Arkham City, Saint's Row: The Third, Dark Souls I am not left with the impression that this is even strong as single player game. Edited January 28, 2012 by Red_Cruiser

[Zannis]

Theres another problem with future content. The existing storylines are so big and epic (at least from a Jedi Knight perspective, thats the only one that i know how it ends) that i really don´t know how they could ever create another threat that doesn´t look totally irrelevant after what you have done. Too bad i can´t say more without spoiling.

 

They don't have to come up with galaxy threatening scenarios. They can easily focus on more personal story telling involving current and future companions. Not necessarily threatening the galaxy, but your team. If done right, it can be just as compelling.

[TheHeadCapper]

Whats even sadder is you make an ironic response. I have my opinion too, but obviously I am not allowed to say it according to you.

 

You are absolutely entitled, but when your posts revolves around telling me my opinion is incorrect rather than just explaining your opinion that's when your logic breaks down.

 

I know people have different opinions and can respect that. I'll take it from your respnse you didn't really get what i was saying and that is the saddest of all.

Edited January 28, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Dalex]

I keep seeing posts for people that really love the game yet feel the need to posts in threads like this to flame the OP and others. Why aren't you playing your great game anyway? This isn't work hours either. I've seen some people come here almost every night just posting "just leave if you don't like it posts" disguised as Theheadcapper seems to be doing.

 

Why aren't you playing the game anyway. Why do you feel the need to post here? The OP explained his point in a civil manner, if you disagree you are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to post it over and over. Your opinion is also not fact either and you have no more entitlement to this game over others just because you like it more.

 

Besides everything the OP said is correct, because he wants to play an "MMO" that he is paying for. A mostly single-player RPG with some coop thrown in (if you're lucky to be on a server that isn't a complete ghostown) isn't an MMO, no matter whether it has Star Wars as its IP.

[Kringlorr]

I keep seeing posts for people that really love the game yet feel the need to posts in threads like this to flame the OP and others. Why aren't you playing your great game anyway? This isn't work hours either. I've seen some people come here almost every night just posting "just leave if you don't like it posts" disguised as Theheadcapper seems to be doing.

 

Why aren't you playing the game anyway. Why do you feel the need to post here? The OP explained his point in a civil manner, if you disagree you are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to post it over and over. Your opinion is also not fact either and you have no more entitlement to this game over others just because you like it more.

 

Besides everything the OP said is correct, because he wants to play an "MMO" that he is paying for. A mostly single-player RPG with some coop thrown in (if you're lucky to be on a server that isn't a complete ghostown) isn't an MMO, no matter whether it has Star Wars as its IP.

Just leave the forum then if you don't like it.

[TheHeadCapper]

I keep seeing posts for people that really love the game yet feel the need to posts in threads like this to flame the OP and others. Why aren't you playing your great game anyway? This isn't work hours either. .

 

What are you talking about. it's 5:00 on the west coast, i still have 30 minutes left,

 

You know the world isn't all one time zone right?

Edited January 28, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Nymaeria]

Just leave the forum then if you don't like it.

 

Your maturity level astounds me... lol

[Dalex]

What are you talking about. it's 5:00 on the west coast, i still have 30 minutes left,

 

You know the world isn't all one time zone right?

 

Dude I've seen you post at Midnight my time, so what 9 pm your time? You're in every single post that somehow slanders your perfect game... Instead of trying to come up with veiled insults in every posts refute some of the OP's claims with actual points instead of the "I'm having fun so you must be wrong" crap you are posting.

 

As for the genius who posted before ya with the "just leave this forum" crap, you are really helping the cause even more. Pathetic really, this will just devolve into fanboys slandering people who say even some small thing about this game not being perfect and alienate everyone.

 

It's ok though, the forum is a minority right? I'm sure the game's population is just booming on the servers right? LOL...

[Faytte]

On population, my guild has 84 people on it on Rubalt Crystal. 2 weeks ago id have 20 people logged in during prime time. This week, 2-4 is the max ive seen. Not exaggerated numbers either. I think once most people saw how easy the ops were (a joke) and we couldnt get into a decent war zone, they just went back to other games.

[Zodiacrat]

What I don't understand is why you are still here.

 

If you do not like the game. Quit. And that goes for all QQ:ers. Just leave.

 

No one cares why you are quitting ...

 

I'd like to address this one since your depth of intellectual feedback is astounding...

 

This is not a "waaahh, this game sucks, I quit" post. As stated before, I really want to like this game and think it has amazing potential, but lacks a lot of features and core design to keep MMO players paying and playing.

There are a lot of things Bioware did right and have made a very compelling story-driven game, but for everything they did right, they seemed to produce an identical thing done wrong; which is baffling.

My opinion is my opinion, like it or not (and if you don't, simply disagree and move on). I offer valid points and constructive criticism for both the players and the developers. Any smart company will take stock in what their customers think of their product.

[DocVandar]

A well written post, OP, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. The emphasis on story is a great addition, but it is finite, and in a genre that thrives on replay ability, game play always has to come first. Unfortunately, that was not done here.

 

I particularly agree with you on the waste of resources used on the VOs and cinametics on the meaningless fetch quests. No doubt that adding a story to the character leveling and instances was a great addition, but when I think of where they could have allocated their resources toward gameplay as opposed to these non-essential cutscenes (let alone the fact that they recorded them in three languages), just upsets me, and makes me think of what this game could have been.

 

I will probably unsub next month and wait until BW adds some more standout features, such as a "real" space combat system and cantina mini games. It is sad, because like the OP, this was probably my most anticipated game of all time. Unfortunately, it just feels like a new skin cast over a 7-year old, stale formula.

[Treebyrn]

FIFY. It's fine if you want a sandboxy mmo, but don't try to pretend that the majority does. (Sandbox mmos have historically drawn far fewer subs than themeparks.)

 

I wonder how many of those sandboxy mmo developers had the time / money / great IP to work off of as did Bioware? Kind of hard to really judge what people truly like until a major developer throws at least a lot of time and money at a dynamic sandboxy game.

 

As for the OP.. I agree! This is Star Wars but Bioware seems to have left out the WARS and perhaps even the STAR... after all Star Wars is a vast universe with many many races but we are limited to only a few races to play. I think Bioware could have spent more of the voice acting money on creating more races for players to play. There is only so many times you can listen to the voice overs before you start quickly space baring through all the conversations.

[Jumajin]

A well written post, OP, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. The emphasis on story is a great addition, but it is finite, and in a genre that thrives on replay ability, game play always has to come first. Unfortunately, that was not done here.

 

I particularly agree with you on the waste of resources used on the VOs and cinametics on the meaningless fetch quests. No doubt that adding a story to the character leveling and instances was a great addition, but when I think of where they could have allocated their resources toward gameplay as opposed to these non-essential cutscenes (let alone the fact that they recorded them in three languages), just upsets me, and makes me think of what this game could have been.

 

I will probably unsub next month and wait until BW adds some more standout features, such as a "real" space combat system and cantina mini games. It is sad, because like the OP, this was probably my most anticipated game of all time. Unfortunately, it just feels like a new skin cast over a 7-year old, stale formula.

 

Let me just echo the above quote.

 

I like SWTOR, but at this point, though I have tried like heck, I just can't bring myself to like it that much at this stage. My main issue is what the OP said about class story vs. planet-level progression. I finally managed to get my BH to level 50. I decided to see what Sith was like. By Balmorra I was already bored. The class storyline was amazing, but unfortunately I was doing the same Drumond Kaas, Balmorra, and then Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine, Alderaan, Taris, et cetera quests-- the exact same quests-- all over again.

 

Right now I am trying Jedi, but if I manage to get him to 50, I can't say that will play Republic again either. Again, class stories are amazing, but I just don't have the stamina to do the same Coruscant, Taris, Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine, etc quests all over again to level enough to keep doing the class quests on an alt.

 

And since the class quests are tied to that single rail of planetary progression, I can't see at this stage how they could expand our options.

 

All in all, maybe a month more in SWTOR, then it's going to be put aside for a while. Which is a shame, because I really hoped to like this game more. It tries to be a KoTRO game wrapped in an MMO, and the way they designed the hybrid, it isn't doing either as well as it should.

 

FYI, I could care less how much endgame content they have at launch. Endgame is not why I buy a new MMO. So, endgame is not part of my issue.

[Sol_Taril]

when all of you, fanboys/girls, will see "*** fleet: 30" at primetime, you will think another way, but for the game it will be too late.

 

P.S.

have 47 paid days left, definetely not getting more.

[superlizard]

It's hard to disagree with any of what is being said.

 

SWTOR I think needs some serious additions (and probably some sandboxiness) to genuinely compete for long.

 

Absolutely agree with the original post and this too. Its discouraging. I can't even imagine leveling an alt and I'm a big alt. person in games. I normally want one of each class and level them to the max. I just can't see it here and that is sorta sad to me. I don't feel a connection of any kind with the character I created and leveled. Frankly the only thing that feels like Star Wars in the game is when I log in and see Star Wars on the log in screen. After that -- nothing.

 

What is worse is to get comments on suggestions of leave if its not for you from the gamers and zero response from forum monitors except that they are closing the thread. We get that there are people that this game is the end all of mmo's to you. Fine go play. But don't bash people that make suggestions because they want more. Why you don't want the game to be better and appeal to more people is beyond me. More people playing keep a game alive for years to come.