Vindexus Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 lmao a bounty hunter saying they are not overpowered......I tried my friend's mercenary and I top damage done (easy 250k damage+) by ONLY pressing tracer missile. I didnt even need to learn about other skills. I did over 200k damage done on my first WZ on my Trooper using nothing but Hammer Shot at level 11. Nerf Hammer Shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonglynn Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) lmao a bounty hunter saying they are not overpowered......I tried my friend's mercenary and I top damage done (easy 250k damage+) by ONLY pressing tracer missile. I didnt even need to learn about other skills. LOL. Top Damage doesn't equal Burst Damage....... Let's say I spam Tracer Missle, 1800 hits, 3000 crits. You spam 150 in a BG (assuming 30% crit)........150k in Crits, 180k in non-crits.....not including dmg reduction from shields or guard......That's 330k 250k+ damage isn't hard.......just means the other team isn't bothering to stop you by LOS or interrupting you. If you are saying Tracer Missle isn't fair, fine......reduce dmg by 20% and give BH an interrupt and way to get out of combat. Edited January 27, 2012 by jonglynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fhrosty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 While I haven't done any personal number-crunching or video-watching, I'd like to add to the argument the fact that what Class A can do to Class B doesn't reflect what A can do to the others. If Tracer Missile is anything like my Grav Round, it can wear out some classes and barely phase others. In a straight grav-round slug-fest (if I'm not stunned or otherwise distracted), I can usually drop a bounty hunter in one tank of ammo, but I'm lucky if I can kill a sorcerer with a tank and a half. I would like to start seeing charts comparing the classes complaining about OP versus the classes they're complaining about, maybe even what trees those classes have specc'd into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Tracer, Tracer, Tracer, Heatseeker comes pretty close to 4 shoting some people, but often times, yeah, its just people thinking they were 4 shot because they don't realize everything that hit them. Add rail shot into that and Unload and most people are going to die faster then anyone else in the game can kill Tracer Tracer Tracer heatseeker to an equally geared opponent will put them at 50% at best. Less vs absorb targets. You could also interrupt it. It also puts them in the slow heat regen zone. You can also make the BH 100% useless by using LoS. Sure someone in full Battlemaster vs. a fresh 50 in greens could possibly get 4-shot assuming everything crits. That's hardly a valid comparison. Everyone with an interrupt eats tracer/grav spam for breakfast. Sorc/Sage and Scoundrel/Op, any tank class will roll over them with such ease it's laughable. The only thing tracer/grav is good for is fighting pugs from the safety of a balcony. In every other situation a sorcerer/sage will do more damage while taking less in return. Edit: It's funny that people complain about the weak gunnery/arsenal specs when assault spec/pyrotech is 10x better in PvP. Edited January 27, 2012 by Aurlon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthiel Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Just saying.......I call BULL@#$@ to anyone saying they were 4 shot by tracer missle, or a BH in general..... Show me pics. two guys i pvp with tracer missle hits for around 3.5k 3.5k+3.5K+3.5k+3.5k=14k without red buff or adrenals goin thats pretty close unless your all cham gear plus so i call ******** on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Tracer Tracer Tracer heatseeker to an equally geared opponent will put them at 50% at best. Less vs absorb targets. You could also interrupt it. It also puts them in the slow heat regen zone. You can also make the BH 100% useless by using LoS. Sure someone in full Battlemaster vs. a fresh 50 in greens could possibly get 4-shot assuming everything crits. That's hardly a valid comparison. Everyone with an interrupt eats tracer/grav spam for breakfast. Sorc/Sage and Scoundrel/Op, any tank class will roll over them with such ease it's laughable. The only thing tracer/grav is good for is fighting pugs from the safety of a balcony. In every other situation a sorcerer/sage will do more damage while taking less in return. Edit: It's funny that people complain about the weak gunnery/arsenal specs when assault spec/pyrotech is 10x better in PvP. Yeeeah, umm, no. There isn't going to be any point if you're playing with your team that you'll be under constant watch, plus the smart ones just use their other abilities until the cooldown is up because it will be up faster then it can be interrupted again. If you're getting eaten alive as a true tracer missile spec, you're not using your other abilities. (or multiple people interrupting, but you're probably dead in that situation anyways no matter who you are) Edited January 27, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Just saying.......I call BULL@#$@ to anyone saying they were 4 shot by tracer missle, or a BH in general..... Show me pics. = Don't nerf me bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 two guys i pvp with tracer missle hits for around 3.5k 3.5k+3.5K+3.5k+3.5k=14k without red buff or adrenals goin thats pretty close unless your all cham gear plus so i call ******** on you Your friends are lying, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Your friends are lying, sorry. Prior to it stacking up it might be inaccurate.. after it does? Noooot so much. Which would make it look better.. until you add in heatseeker and rail shot Edited January 27, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's possible with 90%+ Surge + Power Adrenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yeeeah, umm, no. There isn't going to be any point if you're playing with your team that you'll be under constant watch, plus the smart ones just use their other abilities until the cooldown is up because it will be up faster then it can be interrupted again. If you're getting eaten alive as a true tracer missile spec, you're not using your other abilities. (or multiple people interrupting, but you're probably dead in that situation anyways no matter who you are) Any team with any clue whatsoever will sit on a gunnery/arsenal player because they do almost zero damage while under pressure. My "other abilities" consist of a knockback on a 20 second cooldown. Time it takes until you're on-top of me again: 1 force speed/force charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortobowden Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's possible with 90%+ Surge + Power Adrenal. + WZ buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Your friends are lying, sorry. With 40% armor I still get critted for 3k from Tracer Missiles often. So 3.5k is very possible for lower armored targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 With 40% armor I still get critted for 3k from Tracer Missiles often. So 3.5k is very possible for lower armored targets. He said hit, not crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Any team with any clue whatsoever will sit on a gunnery/arsenal player because they do almost zero damage while under pressure. My "other abilities" consist of a knockback on a 20 second cooldown. Time it takes until you're on-top of me again: 1 force speed/force charge. Full Auto/Unload Rail Shot because you're almost guaranteed to get a stack on before people take full notice. I'm sorry, being don't have god perception, they're human. Death from Above... just because your specced abilities are on cooldown doesn't mean sit around not using the other tricks at your disposal, which you wouldn't believe how often I see people do nothing like that. Or maybe you do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Just saying.......I call BULL@#$@ to anyone saying they were 4 shot by tracer missle, or a BH in general..... Show me pics. I disagree -- it would be a hard sell now, but with the silly buff stacking that existed previously? I'm guessing 4-5k crits were possible, and consecutive ones with a little rng love. SO, possible but improbable -- and, in this way, certainly not limited to Mercs. Edited January 27, 2012 by Drakks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Full Auto/Unload Rail Shot because you're almost guaranteed to get a stack on before people take full notice. I'm sorry, being don't have god perception, they're human. Death from Above... just because your specced abilities are on cooldown doesn't mean sit around not using the other tricks at your disposal, which you wouldn't believe how often I see people do nothing like that. Or maybe you do the same. FA/Unload will only get 2 ticks off at best. DFA/Mortar can be moved out of easily (mortar anyway...) Rail shot is excellent but you rely on this to backload your burst. Lack of perception is a l2p issue, not a reason to nerf a spec. How hard is it to notice a guy spamming smoking rockets with such a giant animation/loud sound? It's got to be one of the most distinct sounds in the game. The thing most people seem to forget in these discussions is everything you just mentioned costs heat/ammo. Guess what happens if you attack someone with 3x tracert, heatseeker, 1 railshot and an unload and it doesn't kill them? You hope you have your 2min heat/ammo cooldown up or you sit there doing 1/10th of your usual damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qilz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 lmao a bounty hunter saying they are not overpowered......I tried my friend's mercenary and I top damage done (easy 250k damage+) by ONLY pressing tracer missile. I didnt even need to learn about other skills. Try it in the 50's bracket and let me know how you do just spamming tracer. People that spam tracer suck. People that apply it to correctly improve the rest of their skills are going to beat you no matter what you do to the class. Bad players are bad. They will just find something else to whine about when the rotation changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) lmao a bounty hunter saying they are not overpowered......I tried my friend's mercenary and I top damage done (easy 250k damage+) by ONLY pressing tracer missile. I didnt even need to learn about other skills. i call bull ****. if i am single targeting all game i wont break 200K. lets see a video of you doing nothing but tracer and getting 250K+ two guys i pvp with tracer missle hits for around 3.5k 3.5k+3.5K+3.5k+3.5k=14k without red buff or adrenals goin thats pretty close unless your all cham gear plus so i call ******** on you once again, bull ****. im 2-3 pieces short of a full champ gear set and ive never crit for more than 2.5k with a tracer and it definitely doesnt happen back to back what people dont realize is that theres three more skills used in this rotation. HSM + RS can easily combine for 5-6K and they are instant cast so they hit right away but the animations are more low key so people only see the tracer Edited January 27, 2012 by Cegenaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) FA/Unload will only get 2 ticks off at best. DFA/Mortar can be moved out of easily (mortar anyway...) Rail shot is excellent but you rely on this to backload your burst. Lack of perception is a l2p issue, not a reason to nerf a spec. How hard is it to notice a guy spamming smoking rockets with such a giant animation/loud sound? It's got to be one of the most distinct sounds in the game. The thing most people seem to forget in these discussions is everything you just mentioned costs heat/ammo. Guess what happens if you attack someone with 3x tracert, heatseeker, 1 railshot and an unload and it doesn't kill them? You hope you have your 2min heat/ammo cooldown up or you sit there doing 1/10th of your usual damage. If they are melee, they have to get out of melee to get out of that AoE, so don't start with that. And you're right.. its not hard to notice AFTER they start firing, but at that point, someone is already almost about to die likely. Seriously, you act like everyone should react at computer speeds. Not happening. Not to mention it doesn't matter if you CAN be stopped for if something is overpowered. Well, ok, it does to a certain point, but when the stated intended design is for people to not be killed at insane speeds? It goes against the intended design, pure and simple, no questions asked. Especially when armor becomes meaningless with abilities like this. Edited January 27, 2012 by Kuari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I dunno about anyone else but I kinda miss Hunter Deadzone...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravestrike Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 the troopers/mercs saying they can't burst down light armor users in 4 tracer/gravs are lying out of their trooperholes/mercholes. they can dish out 4 before my 12s cooldown interrupt is back and if my stun is down and i can't line of sight i'm dead. it happens. just be honest with yourselves lol you guys can burst better and faster than a lot of classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortobowden Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 i call bull ****. if i am single targeting all game i wont break 200K. lets see a video of you doing nothing but tracer and getting 250K+ once again, bull ****. im 2-3 pieces short of a full champ gear set and ive never crit for more than 2.5k with a tracer and it definitely doesnt happen back to back what people dont realize is that theres three more skills used in this rotation. HSM + RS can easily combine for 5-6K and they are instant cast so they hit right away but the animations are more low key so people only see the tracer Along with a timed explosive dart (maybe an overrided fusion missile for some more kick and it's DoT if someone's by them) to go off with HSM + RS(mainly for the delay, to make it look like a nice big 1 shot hit to put them in the "OH SHI!" mode.) which is once every 15 secs tops if you're allowed to get full buffs with Tracer Missile before each of those combos. Also, that eats up a lot of energy to do, so you're at 2 or 3 heat per second cooling rather than the usual 5 and have to use a 2 min CD or rapid shot(basic attack) a bit to get back up to be able to do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Doesn't matter what figures the community claims if BW balances based on real data. lol but BW doesn't even know what real data is, much less balance based on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurlon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) If they are melee, they have to get out of melee to get out of that AoE, so don't start with that. No you don't. DFA/Mortar has minimum range, you can't do it at your feet. And you're right.. its not hard to notice AFTER they start firing, but at that point, someone is already almost about to die likely. Seriously, you act like everyone should react at computer speeds. Not happening. You act like people are dying in 5 seconds. It would take minimum 10 seconds of a BH wailing on you to die. LoS the BH to reduce his damage done by 100%, not hard. You don't have to be a "supercomputer" to hear the tracer distinctive sound/graphic and respond within ~2-3 seconds. the troopers/mercs saying they can't burst down light armor users in 4 tracer/gravs are lying out of their trooperholes/mercholes. they can dish out 4 before my 12s cooldown interrupt is back and if my stun is down and i can't line of sight i'm dead. it happens. just be honest with yourselves lol you guys can burst better and faster than a lot of classes. Stop wearing green questing gear vs full battlemaster then. A full battlemaster has what, 18k hp? So let's see, to be 4 shot each tracer would have to do 4.5k damage, more than 200% of it's base damage. In what dreamland does this occur? Also LoS is literally everywhere in this game and interrupts even mid-cast. Edited January 27, 2012 by Aurlon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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