You already know changes are coming.

[sanctified]

Just some random selections.

 

Jedi Sages were originally going to be called Jedi Wizards. A lot of people complained. Bioware changed the name.

 

Sith Warriors originally received the class specific title "Emperor's wrath," instead of "Darth." A lot of people complained. Bioware removed the wrath title and gave warriors Darth.

 

In beta, you originally had the option of executing your companions. People did this and gimped themselves by removing healers and dps, and the like. They complained a lot. No more companion executions.

 

Operatives in PVP were known for unreasonable burst damage that could destroy anyone in seconds. People complained a lot. Operatives were recently nerfed. (Maybe over-nerfed, even).

 

Knight/Warriors are currently complaining vocally about three issues. There's maybe more, but these are the ones I think we see the most.

 

1. Sentinel/marauders feel that they lack survivability and utility in PVP and PVE. They can reach their targets easily initially, but sustaining damage is difficult due to their targets being able to easily snare and kite them. Anything with ranged capabilities can beat them if the player is good, even tank spec powertechs and Vanguards. For PVE, they feel that their lack of survivability keeps them from progressing through their class story as easily as other class/specs.

 

2. Dps spec Juggernauts and Guardians have good survivability, but feel that they don't do nearly enough damage in pve and PVP. Their situation is the opposite of the Marauder/Sentinel one and they would very much like better damage. Their inability to hit hard enough means that once their target waits out their defensive cooldowns, they become easy kills.

 

3. Guardian/Juggernaut tanks also feel that they aren't doing enough damage and that this is adversely affecting their single target threat. They would also like more options for aoe threat.

 

I think that's pretty much it. Anyway, my point is, the Jedi/Warrior community have been *very* vocal about these issues. I doubt very much that Bioware isn't aware of your dissatisfaction. Knights and Warriors are possibly the most popular classes in the game. Corrections are coming. They're working on it. From my perspective, Bioware has a proven record of listening and responding. They're not as timely as they could be, but they *do* eventually get there. So, let's maybe put down the pitchforks and torches and let them work?

Edited January 27, 2012 by sanctified

[DiLune]

Why put down the pitchforks and torches? They work harder when they can smell the pitch.

[sanctified]

Why put down the pitchforks and torches? They work harder when they can smell the pitch.

 

Well it's the vitriol more than anything else. I mean, the point was made. And then made again. And again. And again after that. If you keep picking at a scab, you'll get an infection.

[Notak]

DPS trees in juggernaut are a joke currently. I rolled an assassin, got him to 50 and in worse gear easily do 40-50% more dps plus having a CC is nice. I love the playstyle of juggernaut, but currently he is tank specced and only so because my guild has alot of inquisitors.

[Foromil]

Did the Operative nerf go through? Someone told me they didn't implement it yet.

[Xitium]

Did the Operative nerf go through? Someone told me they didn't implement it yet.

 

It hasn't been implemented yet, unless you pay on the test server.

[Noth]

2. Dps spec Juggernauts and Guardians have good survivability, but feel that they don't do nearly enough damage in pve and PVP. Their situation is the opposite of the Marauder/Sentinel one and they would very much like better damage. Their inability to hit hard enough means that once their target waits out their defensive cooldowns, they become easy kills.

 

This is just flat wrong. DPS Juggs have less survivability than maruaders do. They get only 2 defensive cooldowns, one which removes 30% health after it's duration and one on a long cooldown and heavy armor means bupkiss overall.

[sanctified]

This is just flat wrong. DPS Juggs have less survivability than maruaders do. They get only 2 defensive cooldowns, one which removes 30% health after it's duration and one on a long cooldown and heavy armor means bupkiss overall.

 

Really? Yeesh.

[Hustletron]

While I don't have the same negative tone as most on the boards, I have to agree to some extent, it's as if Heavy Armor is just for show. I have a 50% damage reduction based on armor yet can still get thrashed because I don't have expertise? Really?

 

Even in PVE sometimes, with 50% damage reduc, 25% defense chance, 30% shield chance, and 25% shield absorb, some enemies just eat you up. It's difficult to look at your stats and feel confident, then go out into a hard mode or something and literally get your *** kicked. Maybe it's all in my head, but I really feel I'm getting hit way too much and way too hard for my stats to be showing up in my character tab the way they are.

 

It's hard not to question it.

 

Also if we're supposed to be using Assault as a filler while other bigger hitting abilities are on CD, maybe let us hit for more than 100 or 150 per swing? That's pretty embarrassing, even getting a 300 white damage crit from an Assault swing is pretty pathetic.

[Karnyvor]

Well it's the vitriol more than anything else. I mean, the point was made. And then made again. And again. And again after that. If you keep picking at a scab, you'll get an infection.

 

While normally I would agree with you, I think where this reasoning fails is that Bioware seems to be handling the PR aspects of this extremely poorly. Allow me to elaborate.

 

A player has an issue. He/she files a ticket about it. the ticket gets closed unresolved with a happy Droid F*** you message with it explaining that it is being escalated... yet THEY CLOSED THE TICKET.

 

Then the player comes to the forums to express frustration and depending on how this express themselves, their post gets closed, they get flamed, and NO ONE from either Tech Support or any kind of moderator responds to them.

 

Then we have well meaning people like you, who are attempting to create an environment of reason, when the original poster above (read: paying customer) was originally being reasonable.

 

No one likes to be dismissed, no one likes to be ignored. My guess is that for every inflammatory post or post critical of any aspect of this game, there are at least twenty others who feel the same way.

 

Now if Bioware assigned community moderators to each forum and gave them the authority to consistently interact with the community, this would be a step in the right direction as far as handling the short term damage control while the snow ball rolls down the hill. Further, if each community forum moderator responded in the name of the company, Bioware might even get help from the community in stopping the snow balls decent mid-stream.

 

Until then, expect the disenfranchised player base to continue to complain, its the only outlet they have left.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Karnyvor

[Banivisa]

It's the 10% resistance to elemental and internal damage that is the issue. Seems the higher you go in pve the more mobs get this type of damage and they're usually strong type or higher.

 

In PvP it seems like the best abilities of most classes deal this type of damage as well. So if you don't get a defense proc or shield you pretty much get hit for full strength.

 

To fix it all the really need to do is just buff Soresu form or the talents in the Immortal tree to about 20-30% with talents that should land you at 24-36% IIRC. (not sure posting from my phone)

 

This would pretty much solve the squishy feeling of Immortal and then just add high threat to Saber Throw, Smash and Sweeping and pretty much all of the Immortal tree is fixed.

 

Change endure pain to a HP buff that adds the buff to the end of your HP total so if you lose hps while under the buff you then lose the buff instead of your base hps every time. This then makes Endure pain an active defense that is usuable anytime you are taking damage not just before you die. This buffs all Jugg survivability which the dev's have acknowledged as under performing.

[Traecoes]

Uhm I main sith juggernaught on crucible pits with rage spec, when you have the gear eventually you become amazing, anyone still crying about not doing damage etc w/e are just bad players. Stop clicking and l2p, set up burst damage, break cc's, use intercede/force charge/force push to navigate everywhere and you will ****. The force push buff is amazing.

[sanctified]

Uhm I main sith juggernaught on crucible pits with rage spec, when you have the gear eventually you become amazing, anyone still crying about not doing damage etc w/e are just bad players. Stop clicking and l2p, set up burst damage, break cc's, use intercede/force charge/force push to navigate everywhere and you will ****. The force push buff is amazing.

 

Please don't start any flame wars. The topic isn't about learning to play, it's about calming down and waiting for adjustments to come to the class. You're not really helping much in that regard.

[Viga]

The more I play against equally geared players the more I think marauders/sentinels just need a better resolve system. Maybe in making it doubly effective or make it work on all forms of CC with a longer duration.

Something needs to be done but I really don't think we need MORE utility.

[Orielensis]

The more I play against equally geared players the more I think marauders/sentinels just need a better resolve system. Maybe in making it doubly effective or make it work on all forms of CC with a longer duration.

Something needs to be done but I really don't think we need MORE utility.

 

Excellent post.

 

I am not in favour of a general buff, especially not even more dps to reflect the fact we usually can't stay on target like ranged classes. What would this do for the people who post videos and screenshots of their WZ stats after playing with one or more pet healers?

 

With a 'general' buff they would ruin the game for everyone else.

 

Something like Viga's suggestion above - more resistance to cc or shorten the unleash cooldown A LOT. Just what's wanted imho.

[memoriesofprey]

Having a second Unleash-type ability on a similar cooldown that spends Rage would be nice, while keeping a future nerf away from us.

[copasetic]

Before doing any buffs to Sith Warrior classes, Bioware needs to make some changes to Resolve to see how it plays out for Sith Warriors.

 

1. Snares either need to be on Resolve OR they need to have their own Diminishing Returns system. The whole purpose of having a full Resolve bar is to prevent you from being CC'd. However, being snared as a melee class is pretty much the exact same as being CC'd since Sith Warriors only have three(?) ranged abilities they can use while snared: Vicious Throw, Saber Throw, Force Scream (are there more I am forgetting?). Since snares are not affected by Resolve, enemies can simply chain snares on a full Resolve bar Sith Warrior.

 

2. If your Resolve bar fills up completely and turns solid white, you should be immediately freed of any CCs and your CC immunity should instantly start. This means enemy players have to choose wisely when to use their long duration CCs instead of mindlessly spamming their CC on enemies without looking at their Resolve bar. Since most CCs fill Resolve to about 80%, this would force enemies to pay attention to enemies Resolve bars. This would give melee more uptime on enemies as well.

[ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR]

Two words for how to PvP as Marauders that can't follow their targets.

 

Obliterate and Force Crush.

 

Marauders do ridiculous damage, Juggernauts have solid survivability. Hmmm they should group up to complement each other. To say they're not self-sufficient... people want them to be homogenized? Make Juggernaut reach a standard of survivability and damage that is the exact same as Marauders? That kind of destroys the line that differentiates the Juggernaut from the Marauder.

 

If you compare those two with the Assassin. Juggernauts have better survivability than assassin, Marauders do more damage than an Assassin. In other words Assassins have balanced damage and survivability but does not excel in either.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR

[miliways]

Two words for how to PvP as Marauders that can't follow their targets.

 

Obliterate and Force Crush.

 

Marauders do ridiculous damage, Juggernauts have solid survivability. Hmmm they should group up to complement each other. To say they're not self-sufficient... people want them to be homogenized? Make Juggernaut reach a standard of survivability and damage that is the exact same as Marauders? That kind of destroys the line that differentiates the Juggernaut from the Marauder.

 

If you compare those two with the Assassin. Juggernauts have better survivability than assassin, Marauders do more damage than an Assassin. In other words Assassins have balanced damage and survivability but does not excel in either.

 

Wrong, wrong wrong. Marauders do equal DPS, but due to always being kited/knockback'd we do less dps than other dps classes.

 

Assassin does equal dps to marauder, not less. If anything, due to stealth, CC, and some ranged attacks, assassin does more in realistic practical fights.

 

Assassin is just as survivable and just as good a tank as juggernaut, not worse. If anything, Assassin is better, has better ways to manage threat against multiple opponents, etc.

 

So... you're entirely wrong.

[DarthFamine]

I have a carnage marauder and I have a few suggestions that I feel would help us alot

 

1) extend the range of saber throw to 15m and reduce the cooldown by half.

2) give us a decent AOE because lets be honest, ours looks pretty but most things just shrug it off. It's embarrassing to see an inq that's 20 levels below you do more with an AOE than you can

3) Some kinds of CC, doesn't have to be a huge one like the whirlwind, but something that can effect things other than droids.

4) buff our damage a little on the off attacks (everything that isnt Ravage, or massacre)

Not alot, just a little

5) maybe a weak force lightning or perhaps a force throwthatguyintoawall not something that would be a huge damage hound but enough to give a second of breathing room.

6) Force Jump (think Jedi Outkast/Academy) (That one might be too much, I dunno)

 

well thats my 2 cents

[miliways]

1. Snares either need to be on Resolve OR they need to have their own Diminishing Returns system. The whole purpose of having a full Resolve bar is to prevent you from being CC'd. However, being snared as a melee class is pretty much the exact same as being CC'd since Sith Warriors only have three(?) ranged abilities they can use while snared: Vicious Throw, Saber Throw, Force Scream (are there more I am forgetting?). Since snares are not affected by Resolve, enemies can simply chain snares on a full Resolve bar Sith Warrior.

 

And lets not forget, the range on those 3 abilities is really, really short. So they barely even count as ranged attacks.

[Viga]

Besides fixing/reworking the resolve system for warriors there's something else I'd like to see changed.

 

If I have an ability that just does damage when a certain condition is met, then damnit I want that skill to work on everything. Not just weak mobs that I never see now that I'm 50 and running hm's, ops and PvP. Yes I'm looking at you Savage Kick/Pummel!

 

I absolutely despise these kinds of design decisions and it drives me nuts. Give me the chance to put these skills on my toolbar thx!

[gibmachine]

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you tbh. In 60+ page thread, Georg said that according to what their data shows (would be nice to see some of that data or its basis) warriors' damage output is where they want it to be and since there wasn't any update on survivablity and kiting problems we actually suffer from aside from meager "Push resets Leap" which is only for juggs, I'm not in any way optimistic about near future bringing any positive changes.

[miliways]

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you tbh. In 60+ page thread, Georg said that according to what their data shows (would be nice to see some of that data or its basis) warriors' damage output is where they want it to be and since there wasn't any update on survivablity and kiting problems we actually suffer from aside from meager "Push resets Leap" which is only for juggs, I'm not in any way optimistic about near future bringing any positive changes.

 

Yeah, I too am very worried. After admitting JK and SW were a little weak, they go on to only acknowledge the Guardian and Juggernaut.

 

Uh, has the Marauder/Sentinel been forgotten?

 

Would go a long way to get acknowledgement from the Devs that Marauder/Sentinel is also lacking in the survivability and mobility/anti-kiting areas.

 

Either let me know that they're working on it, so I can relax, or let me know that they aren't, so I can stop leveling my main and reroll Juggernaut.

[Strah]

Except that marauders have got MUCH more survivability than juggernauts due to cloak of pain, camouflage and undying rage.

 

and this "BUT BUT HEAVY ARMOR" barely makes any difference.

My BH has got only 7% more mitigation than my sniper.