Raque Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 As previously mentioned in another post about Mitigation, I feel that may be a large part of the issue here. Also, the lack of diminishing returns is also a big problem in my eyes. You might be right about Mitigation being the issue and I really do not think resolve works well either. Either way in its current form of this is too much damage with a stun and no warning, that combination is broken. Everyone has great ideas on how to go about fixing this but until Swtor gets out of the stone age with some of these designs and start taking from what other MMO's have done right, it's going to be problematic for us all. Honestly, I can not think of a game where I felt a class with a stun out of stealth that had good burst dps was a balanced mechanic. It was either too weak or too strong (although I feel too weak is much more playable). This nerf has to happen, just like WoW rogue's stunlock had to be nerfed. No class should have a near guarantee win in PvP. But I feel Ops need something to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raque Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Honestly, I feel if a good player of any class catches me out of stealth, it's a guaranteed kill. It would be if you all didn't seem to always drop my dots & invis to get out of combat and run away at low health. Ya, I realize that it is on a 3 min cooldown but it feels like ops always have it ready everytime I find one out of stealth. That is a crazy good escape, not OP, just crazy good. A good player can take away an ops backstab and hidden strike, our two biggest hitters... Ok, I am a bad player, how do I take away an ops backstab and hidden strike while stunned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posixgod Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You might be right about Mitigation being the issue and I really do not think resolve works well either. Either way in its current form of this is too much damage with a stun and no warning, that combination is broken. Honestly, I can not think of a game where I felt a class with a stun out of stealth that had good burst dps was a balanced mechanic. It was either too weak or too strong (although I feel too weak is much more playable). This nerf has to happen, just like WoW rogue's stunlock had to be nerfed. No class should have a near guarantee win in PvP. But I feel Ops need something to compensate. Resolve doesn't really work well or properly in my mind as well. In regards to the stuns, this is where diminishing returns would basically come in play. Since your evasive ability to get out of stuns is on a CD, at least implementing the returns would assure that you weren't being stun locked repetitively. Stun in itself isn't flawed but again, this is a situation where the underlying functionality or rather lack there of is the actual issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximusedward Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Fixed. So youre telling OP to respec into a tree just to counter 1 ops? As a sniper How do I respect into smthing that cant get instagib by an ops without sacrificing all my points into lethality? NVM, OPS should L2P when the patch goes lives and respec instead of depending on a 1 trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 See sig This man has a flawless sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It would be if you all didn't seem to always drop my dots & invis to get out of combat and run away at low health. Ya, I realize that it is on a 3 min cooldown but it feels like ops always have it ready everytime I find one out of stealth. That is a crazy good escape, not OP, just crazy good. Ok, I am a bad player, how do I take away an ops backstab and hidden strike while stunned? It's 2 minute cd talented, that's the same as your cc breaker so for the most part a good scoundrel will have it up most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 to the people getting 100-0 or claiming to be in 3-5 seconds. Zoom out of your camera, are there other people hitting you? Probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syft Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 How are you Operatives going to bold faced lie and say your class is fine atm and doesn't need to be toned down???? Are you really serious you think your class is perfectly balanced??? First off stealth is a huge advantage in PvP it lets you pick your fights, then coupled with stuns and insane burst + the ability to VANISH out of every fight and heal in combat COME-ON NOW. This isn't even a nerf coming it's a balance making you in line with other classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This isn't even a nerf coming it's a balance making you in line with other classes Lets just hope this is true. I am looking forward to seeing people re-roll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimra Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I agree Ops need changing somehow, I'll wait to see if this is the right change. I have to disagree with the blatant lies though. I have NEVER taken someone 100-0 in the 3 second knockdown. I would usually open up on people below 50% health and finish them pretty quickly, so I think people run around with below half health and are just too stupid to realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 In half Champion gear, still getting 100-0ed every time my CC break is on cooldown, can't push a single button before I'm dead. Obviously outplayed. Any ETA, BW? If the op/scoundrel nerf goes live before they balance an aoe hitting for more on multiple people, requiring only one button and waiting 4 seconds and hitting another button, and add to that you can get 2 off inside a buff stack? The Dev team should all be fired immediately. Noone is crying about scoundrels/ops when they have gear. They are saying how stupid it is that a class that can guard/taunt (most important thing in premade vs premace) can take two players and gun down 5 quicker then a op/scoundrel could solo someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raque Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The Dev team should all be fired immediately. Noone is crying about scoundrels/ops when they have gear. They are saying how stupid it is that a class that can guard/taunt (most important thing in premade vs premace) can take two players and gun down 5 quicker then a op/scoundrel could solo someone. Yes we are saying the stealth/burst/stun combo is broken even when geared. Sure 100-0 in 3 seconds is rare but it is nearly a guarantee kill anyway. Sents/Muaraders have great burst and a choke, but I can see them coming so I have a chance to fight back, no complaints. Assassins have stealth and even a stun out of stealth, but it is not an issue since they lack the burst and their stun out of stealth is only 2 seconds. Give me a reasonable chance to fight back and I have no issue, but right now it is not an operative beating me with skill, it is an operative beating me with a broken combo of abilities. That said, they need something to compensate for the proposed nerf...just nothing bursty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husanak Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The Op class in general needs work... its one of the least loved classes by the devs. The heal tree is nice... the dmg tree is a one trick pony... the dot tree is terrible... It is probaly the worst class to try to spread points around in to make a hybrid build. Honesty Bio needs to go over their tree do some pruning and change a few things... making it possible to play this class in another way. You can sum up the Op this way... TONS of util tools base... ZERO util in the talent tree = one trick pony class, that too be honest is sort of boring too play. I have an OP toon that I like to play now and then... there is just no good option too play that toon in PvP outside of back Stab stabby stabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 sounds like you are pretty bad! what will you do when they nerf operatives, and you still die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Yes we are saying the stealth/burst/stun combo is broken even when geared. Sure 100-0 in 3 seconds is rare but it is nearly a guarantee kill anyway. Sents/Muaraders have great burst and a choke, but I can see them coming so I have a chance to fight back, no complaints. Assassins have stealth and even a stun out of stealth, but it is not an issue since they lack the burst and their stun out of stealth is only 2 seconds. Give me a reasonable chance to fight back and I have no issue, but right now it is not an operative beating me with skill, it is an operative beating me with a broken combo of abilities. That said, they need something to compensate for the proposed nerf...just nothing bursty. You understand that the "nerf" is in no way killing their ability to one on one you right? You are just as dead because noone is speccing in the knockdown. The new opener will be followed up with a stun and you have zero chance of living through it. The thing? The class will be useless for the next 45 seconds lol. Expect the QQ to continue. BTW melee who can't charge are just as dead as you are when you open from them at range. Fun fact... Like I said two stacked focus/rage guardians/SW are worse then anything atm in live. You can heal/CC the burst/scoundrel/op from single target burst. Guard/taunts negate it completely. You can't do jack about an AOE hitting HARDER on multiple people. The Guardian/Jugs must be horrible on your realm lol. Just wait until all the good marauder/sents reroll to juggs/guardians because the rage/focus spec is so much better on the tank AC... The kicker? It is also easier to play then sent/marauder, has more control, and there is no need for accuracy because you are single wielding, so you can stack the @#$% out of crit/surge gems. Edited January 27, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I think everyone should have to qualify their posts with their class. Too many people complaining about operatives when they're probably playing as Sorcs. Sorc is the paper to their scissors. Reroll, too many of you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalehitchy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 sounds like you are pretty bad! what will you do when they nerf operatives, and you still die? Love it how people try and defend their class to try and stop the patch from nerfing a way over powered character. As a tank in full champ gear.. I have been taken to 20% health during one stun... On a 1v1 situation. Saying "you suck learn your class" .... Makes you even more stupid. Here's the situation in a nutshell: you invisible I don't know you coming. You practically kill me in one moment (the moment being the stun) .... nothing can be done about it as CC break is on cool down. Now as your so good with your op / scoundrel.... How can any other class combat that... What could they have possibly done differently (besides not play pvp at All)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apexy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I am a scoundrel myself and it is quite obvious if i find a 14 or 15k imp, he/she will be my target. Oh and those Sorc. only die if they allow us to do it. Most of the time my shoot first crit is absorbed by the bubble (around 1000 or less go past it) and then lose around 5 or 6k (if they crit) with back blast and atleast 1 sucker punch, after that they just run and try to kite me. that's about 6 or 7k hp lost and me being kited but now it's about the skill of OP/SC and the oponent. Be smart and don't stick around me for too long or you are dead since i still have defensive cooldowns, flatchet round + back blast and vital shoot + sucker punches to boot. Oh and the lovely disapearing act.. didn't even need to use it on you. Best pvp duels i had was against BM Assassins and OPs, very funny to fight a stealthy. Just find it so hard to ignore a light armored imp walking alone without bubble in wz.. oh and those with less then 15k hp! Seriously guys what do you expect, you would even get pwned by other classes but since the OP/SC catches you alone while you are doing god knows what and can't get out of a cc, you just QQ. Play as a team and play smart, you won't be our target and if you are, you will be healed (yes you can get healed through our damage..) and enjoy the PvP. Revy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XForget Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 sounds like you are pretty bad! what will you do when they nerf operatives, and you still die? I can't wait for this, I kill people out of stealth all the time lol, yes I can kill people in the duration of my knockdown but were talkin new lvl 50s and I'm a BM, you kids need to stop complaining, bad Operatives get the opener on me and I still kill them as an operative, if u die in 3 seconds to an operative well ur gear kinda sux anyways, and you'll die either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maasterrcsaw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm a melee sorcerer pure and I think all the other classes are fine, but we should definitely be buffed. I'd like a throwy throwy lightsaber ability or be able to lightning blast my lightsaber through another classes face. I think this ability should be a 1 hit K.O but have a lengthy cooldown, mayber 2-3mins? On my serious views on PvP, all these threads don't matter. You can argue who is OP till the cows come home but at the end of the day the PvP mechanic in this game is broken. Don't hate the player hate the game. Oh and btw PvE in this game? It's no different to the crappy generic quests we are all used to in "other" (WoW) MMO's, except with voice acting cover-up! This games going down hill. Oh and btw it doesn't deserve the title MMO with 200 people max on the imperial fleet. kids, I'm a seasoned professional l33t ha><0r, you will agree with me, or you will be an ignoranus for the rest of your life and be further manipulated by corporations until they have drained every penny from you. Stay in school, be smart and look both ways when crossing the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Pretty bold to attack the OP by saying he is the wrong spec when he didnt even say what class he is. I play a sorcerer, if my CC break is on cooldown, I will be sub 20% by the time I can do anything, even with a full bubble up, and have about 2-3 globals to escape. That low health, standing to fight is suicide. Even if I run I am likely dead anyway as being a low health DPS sorcerer usually attracts attention and am chased down by someone. I have seen a few times of 2 ops working as a team and there is no chance then to even run, they jump you and you are dead. I loled. That is a joke right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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