Bioware - Implorment (?) from a genuine fan

[Mhak]

Let me preface a little here. I was an early access player, day 1 of it. I had per-ordered super early. I got into beta weekend after beta weekend. I was soooo stoked about this game. I convinced a RL buddy to purchase it after release (he's still on his way to 50, testing the waters) . SWTOR is something I've been looking forward to for a long time, and when I finally got my hands on it, I was pretty happy. Leveling up to 50 was a blast.

 

Level 50 was a blast for a while too. I wasn't one of the people who got there super-fast, but since I played from day 1 EA and knew most of the pre-40 content from the beta, I still got there decently fast. Was raiding EV after only a few weeks there with some friends I made in the community; now we're all in the same guild. At the moment I have a full set of Columni/Rakata gear for and from PvE raiding, and a full set of champ gear, 620 expertise for and from PvP. Same with most people in my guild.

 

We're all afraid we'll be quitting SWTOR soon and searching for greener pastures =/ Afraid is a key word there. We don't WANT to leave SWTOR. We are all similar-minded people who loved SWTOR and want to keep loving it. But you make doing that so damn hard, Bioware!

 

Yesterday we tried to do a HM EV clear followed by a HM crack at KP. Bugs wouldn't allow 2 of our people to get into HM EV. They weren't saved. Hadn't set foot in there. They restarted the game, then their computers, no luck. There was sadly no option to reset the instance for some reason, either it was removed or it is another bug.

 

So we went over to KP, figuring we'd just try that instead. Now, two different people bugged on the shuttle trip inside the Operation, and it wouldn't them them enter the main area. Same thing, restarts, reforming, ect. No luck. Just flat out not able to get in. Unfortunately, this is far from the first time we've experienced game-breaking bugs in PvE. From bosses dropping no loot to bosses bugging out every attempt and resetting and not letting us progress, to boss kills not counting for daily/weekly credit we've had more than our fair share of rage at this game so far.

 

Should I even go on about PvP? You know how many complaints you're getting in that department, you hardly need another one. From the lack of/broken OW PvP to the pure-Korean grindfest that is Valor, where's the innovation? The system needs massive changes and you've thrown us only crumbs so far, and those crumbs are not feeding the hungry beast that is your PvP fanbase.

 

Bioware, I don't hate this game. I want it to be something that occupies my time for years to come! I want to get immersed in this world and have fun, but from a AAA title game, I'm honestly shocked. Bugs that prevent us from playing (ie the EV/KP bugs)? PvP with ZERO innovation from previous established titles? Bioware, what the hell is going on?

 

But what hurts the most is that I don't hear anything from the Devs. I don't hear "Guys, we know there's some really big problems and we promise we're working on them. We promise we're making changes. We promise we're close to fixing these things." Instead of admitting there are problems you act like nothing is wrong with this game! And that's what scares me the most! And what might, ultimately, drive away me and several other fellow customers who wanted to love this game.

 

I implore you Bioware, please....give us something! Give us hope for the future! Changes! Stop pretending like nothing is wrong! If you honestly believe nothing is wrong...that's a sign we need to stop wasting our time here because things won't ever get better. =/ I have faith in you guys to turn things around (the changes required aren't exactly sweeping overhauls...but they are pretty big), but we need to know they are coming!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[Bionixx]

They are aware of many issues but don't want to acknowledge them because it's bad press. Some bugs are being stealth fixed.

[Asuka]

Dev Tracker/Community Blog/Forums are your friend. Try them out, you might be surprised to find out what BW has been saying.

[Mhak]

Dev Tracker/Community Blog/Forums are your friend. Try them out, you might be surprised to find out what BW has been saying.

 

I'm on them, believe me. And the future updates things. Yeah. Those are the crumbs I was talking about.

 

We need a lot more than that. We need the game-breaking problems to be specifically addressed. And we need the broken systems to be specifically addressed.

 

They haven't been so far.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[run_hello]

Endgame bosses are a hot mess. I bugged out in the middle of Soa, got caught up in his tornado. Then was dropped just as the floor collapsed. But the floor wasn't there anymore of course. So I'm ported to the very bottom and rooted in the middle of the room. The battle is going on around me and I don't see anyone, except for their icons on the mini-map.

 

Naturally they killed Soa for the first time and I got no credit for the mission or access to loot. This was after multiple bugs on the previous bosses.

 

It's laughable how borked endgame content is in this game. Don't even get me started on the way looting is set up.

[Oceanzen]

Is implorment even a word?

[Dawginole]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

This is very true. But will all the other MMOs and games coming out I don't think the MMO community will be paying much attention to TOR by the time they become competitive.

 

OMG LOL. This is the same post on every message board within the first month of launch. They said this when I started FFXI, WoW, FFXIV, and this. Everything I have ever played, some kid is poo poo'ing within a month that all the problems that affect HIM are not being fixed and HIS "community" of players is going to leave. Not ever stopping to think that the Dev team also may have to address issues and bugs in other areas of the game where other groups are playing. But he doesn't ever consider this because his community is the "heart and core of the game".

 

Then he threatens that some other game is on the horizon and this game will lose all its players to this other new game. Then he goes to play the new game and after a month he starts posting that all the problems that he is concerned about aren't being fixed and his community is the core of the game keeping it alive and if they don't fix his concerns he will be moving on to this other new game.

 

Blah, blah, blah. It's all the same. ONE MONTH. SIX DAYS. MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME.

 

These are not magicians. They don't go into work each day and wave a wand. They go into work like everyone else for an 8+ hour day and analyze the problem and try their best to fix it as fast as possible. Then they go home to see their families and their kids, and to eat dinner, and maybe have a time to enjoy their own night for 30 damn minutes to watch TV before they go to bed to have to get up at the crack of dawn again the next day to come back to work to fix some problem some pre-pubescent clown is screaming about on an Internet forum so that he doesn't leave the game. ::::::::::::::

 

SO SORRY FOR ALL OF YOU! AAAA++++++ POST!!!!! WILL READ AGAIN!!!!!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Dawginole

[Mhak]

Is implorment even a word?

 

Probably not. But I wasn't pulling a Palin on you, I just haven't had coffee yet.

[Mekrath]

Great post. I started beta testing in August and also started on day 1 of EA. A week ago I resubscribed for 6 months, and then yesterday I just kinda lost the desire to log in. I don't raid but I do PvP, and everything you say about it is accurate. I have an account till July, so I will certainly give them a chance to improve things, but as of now it's just not worth my time. Spending hours PvPing and getting several bags with nothing but useless Centurion tokens? No thanks. I'm no closer to competing with people with better gear than I was before I started. I want to feel like I'm progressing when I spend hours playing, my time is worth something to me.

[Mhak]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

Be careful what you wish for. When you say "All of you people that are like the OP", you are addressing a huge number of raiding players with growing disillusionment, and that number is growing every day. If you want all of them to leave you'd have a game with a much smaller playerbase and it would just be shrinking as more and more people came to experience endgame content.

 

We'd rather stay and see changes for the better. If we don't speak out about these changes we want, then we'd have no one to blame but ourselves for never seeing them. We have to speak out; it's how MMOs grow. Player feedback. Telling us to "get over it" when we're spending our money is extremely immature.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[Mephismo]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

Have to agree with this.

You can always come back when the issues are fixed

[Mhak]

Have to agree with this.

You can always come back when the issues are fixed

 

How do we know the issues will get fixed if we don't bring them to light, and the Devs never say anything about them?

 

You have to understand that this post is intended for the betterment of this game. I'm not complaining, I'm asking for sustenance. If nobody brings these things to light, then Bioware won't think there's anything requiring fixing. And that means we shouldn't be here right now.

 

We want to stay, and that's why these things are spoken out about. Keeping a blindfold and gag on about all the problems is just a surefire way for them to never be fixed.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[Vyradder]

Is implorment even a word?

 

Nope.

[pipda]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

I have a feeling six months from now you will be saying the same thing, assuming anyone cares to still raid at that point.

 

And yes you will miss those people. When you get to End game and there is no one there because they either left due to the poor state of the game, because their friends left or because there was simply not enough people to play with, miss them you will. You will also miss the people who never buy the game because of the word of mouth. It will be you and 20 other people sitting around on the fleet with nothing to do.

 

The OP is right, I got to 50, ran a bunch of HMs and EV. It was a buggy mess. I use past tense because I don't play my 50 any more. Was just too frustrating to try and play a game that was broken, I am not that hard core. I went and rolled an Alt. Now if I was in to end game content more and was a raid fiend I know for a fact I would not be subbed again and would go play Rift or WOW which have solid end games. Issues with difficulty or mechanics not withstanding, at least their **** works.

 

The point is, we get a new content patch, one that was full of bugs when people still can't even do some of the launched content because of all the bugs. Sure MMOs will have bugs, they always have bugs. But the quality on TOR is terrible.

[JediMasterShake]

Implorment? lol.

 

 

The rest of your post... very wise. I agree with it all.

[pipda]

Have to agree with this.

You can always come back when the issues are fixed

 

This is very true. But will all the other MMOs and games coming out I don't think the MMO community will be paying much attention to TOR by the time they become competitive. Always that group of people that won't ever give the game a second look. Every day that goes by an MMO is one day closer to the next game that is going to knock it out of relevancy.

 

MMOs are going under just as fast as they launch, this isn't 6-7 years ago when a piss poor MMO can launch and had time to get traction. People dump games and never go back now, too many other options available.

 

TOR will have a legacy but not as a genre changing juggernaut like WOW. It will be a case study at Game Developer school in the "How to E'f up a Wet Dream" chapter.

Edited January 26, 2012 by pipda

[calsi]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

I hate responses like this. You do realize that when you encourage people out the door, that they take their sub money with them, right? Plus that's one less player for you to find for your group. And what if they take their friends with them. Good luck getting a healthy game when the sub money and player population is on a downward slide.

Edited January 26, 2012 by calsi

[Asuka]

I'm on them, believe me. And the future updates things. Yeah. Those are the crumbs I was talking about.

 

We need a lot more than that. We need the game-breaking problems to be specifically addressed. And we need the broken systems to be specifically addressed.

 

They haven't been so far.

 

Some people think MMOs work like Burger King, your way right away and if the burger was missing onions that you can go right back and get the onions. Everything takes time and they'll never deliver ETAs on anything unless they are 99% sure they'll be rolling out the fix within a certain time. Just because they don't talk about it every day or every week doesn't mean they don't have it on their list.

 

As far as game-breaking goes, there's little to nothing that's so game-breaking that can't wait for BW to tackle it.

[Mhak]

Some people think MMOs work like Burger King, your way right away and if the burger was missing onions that you can go right back and get the onions. Everything takes time and they'll never deliver ETAs on anything unless they are 99% sure they'll be rolling out the fix within a certain time. Just because they don't talk about it every day or every week doesn't mean they don't have it on their list.

 

As far as game-breaking goes, there's little to nothing that's so game-breaking that can't wait for BW to tackle it.

 

And as far as game-breaking goes, you clearly never put together a group of 8 people who can only manage to collude once or twice a week for a raid, then have the raid bug out and not be possible to play. Then tried a different raid, the only other one, and had THAT one bug too. These bugs literally broke the game in such a manner as to make it unplayable.

 

That is EXACTLY game-breaking enough that people shouldn't have to "wait for BW to tackle it." That's so bad I cannot play the game. Why am I paying them money then? I pay to play the game, not sit on my thumb and wait for it to be fixed.

 

Finally, some people think putting on a blindfold and gag and ignoring problems is the proper way to get them to be fixed. I disagree with those people.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[LizardSF]

Nope.

 

Bah. It's a perfectly cromulent word.

[Taurusaud]

But... but "SWTOR is the crowning achievement atop the history of innovative MMOs!!!"...

 

 

...

[LizardSF]

The kinds of phasing/out of sync bugs described, while not game breaking, are hideously fun-destroying. Despite some trolls claiming this is a "single player MMO", the majority of the content is group-based and you start grouping early and often, which is a good thing. So fixing phase bugs is high priority.

 

That said -- such bugs are also extremely messy and complex and probably have multiple causes, so there isn't a simple fix, and may involve multiple sections of the code and complex interactions which need a lot of internal testing for unexpected side effects. Also, it's hard to get people to test it on the PTR, as if there was a simple course of action which always generated a phasing bug("If you do a, then b, you will be out of phase"), it would have been identified and fixed earlier. (It's more like "If X and Y but not Z unless D except for Q or L but not if G>H or J=K but if G=K then....")

 

So...

 

Yes, high priority bug that might not "break" gameplay, but can frustrate and drive off players.

No, not likely to be fixed completely and in all aspects soon, which doesn't mean they're not aware of how frustrating it is or that they're not working on it.

[Mhak]

So...

 

Yes, high priority bug that might not "break" gameplay, but can frustrate and drive off players.

 

What if the bug does actually break the game by making it unplayable?

 

Because that's what happened. These bugs prevented us from raiding entirely. We could not even start. We will now have to wait a week before we can try again, but our group of 8 can only meet on tuesday and wednesday nights.

 

Game-breaking is not a dysphemism in this scenario. It is actually game-breaking. If that's not fixed soon, why are we paying for this game when we can't play it?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mhak

[HanzoV]

SWTOR is the crowning achievement atop the history of innovative MMOs!!!

 

Quoted for truth (with a snip here and there)

[ominousz]

All of you people that are like the OP are the same. You're living in a fast food world with fast food expectations. The game has been out a month. Get over it. It will be fixed in due time. If you can't wait for fixes due to your impatience, leave, we won't miss you.

 

This. If you can't manage to be rational about the state of the game, maybe it's best if you do leave and save the rest of us some headache. I've played MMOs for 15 years now, beta tested several AAA title and therefor know what to expect. Give it some thought, obviously end game content is the least tested aspect of a new MMO, sure they have some employee side department testing, but compared to the thousands testing low level content, it's more than normal to still have excessive bugs at this point. Has been with every game to date that releases end game raids at launch. (I can think of a couple huge names in the genre who didn't have raids available at launch)

 

Given the fact that we're all very experienced with MMOs, it's normal to chew through this content quickly, you just have to do the best you can to stay patient... Possibly pick up a new hobbie in between your downtime, hell... Leave the house every once in a while.