Sincere plee to consider the side-effects the Op nerf will have

[Gorra-Syn]

Your not the only one heh Scoundrels got the neft bat too.

 

Your right, but most people are talking about both I think when they say "op".. only because it's faster than typing smuggler. I have been killed by a LOT of Scoundrels and Op's, but this nerf is going way overboard.

[Newsinz]

No, I know y'all did too, bud. It's just easier to type Ops and since I'm playing an Operative sometimes I forget about my Scoundrel brothers.

 

Im highly against nerfing... instead of nerfing they should be buffing other classes.

[GreenReafer]

Well operatives are pretty OP in the lower bracket, on 50 i havent had any problems with them.

 

And i think this in part fueled the walls of whine for a nerf.

 

But still, no-one should deny they needed a nerf, the nerf bat just was a few sizes too big.

 

That's the annoying part companies like the big swing and can't just bunt

[Gorra-Syn]

Im highly against nerfing... instead of nerfing they should be buffing other classes.

 

THIS^^ Remember those videos about "Heroic" or "fast paced" combat?? Looks like they want to make this game the all day, hack and slash BS combat like every other mmo.. Then again I can remember the devs telling us that they are NOT going to make mirror classes. Bioware is turning into a joke, or maybe it's that guy everyone keeps asking to get fired? But in any case.. they are going about this all wrong.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Gorra-Syn

[theblackjew]

If you wanted to play the farthest from Flavor class when choosing that advanced class you should have picked the one that forces you to stay in that annoying broken cover. Any hardcore that played IA in beta tried sniper rolled ops in launch. In all seriousness all I hear is can't 2 second drop someone wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Edited January 25, 2012 by theblackjew

[Gorra-Syn]

If you wanted to play the farthest from Flavor class when choosing that advanced class you should have picked the one that forces you to stay in that annoying broken cover. Any hardcore that played IA in beta tried sniper rolled ops in launch.

 

I played sniper in beta and loved it. I only rolled op's because it felt like it was a better match with the story.. kinda the KGB/Bond type of guy. I only started doing pvp with my op a few weeks ago, and didnt even know about all the people crying for them to get a nerf. Makes me feel bad for the 50's because all the time spent in that class, only to see it go poof. This is all wrong.

[Sendai_S]

I think Ops have been treated unfairly, we have to be in stealth AND behind the player, otherwise we are pretty useless... Imo the behind the player is a pointless requirement and causes more head aches.

 

There-in lies the problem that plagued us too - prevented in other games by taking away the ability to initiate combat after a vanish ability is used.

 

The OP would double dip using their from-stealth-opener twice in nearly all fights.

 

Putting a buff on the vanish skill that halts all combat from being iniated by a toon that vanishes for at least 30 seconds and that negates this. Quite frankly as a shadow, I never saw the damage numbers Ops saw - in terms of the shadow from-behind-stealth strike. I got quite frustrated that they were doing what they were doing and I wasn't.

 

But the double dip - getting the attack from stealth attack in twice in a single fight was one of the big issues.

 

<sarcasm>Alternatively, if a stealth class vanishes fighting a PVE mob, the mob instantly resets - you could do that for players also... </sarcasm>

[Deveated]

It was i'm sure a cross between the postings of how 'op' the class was, and iam sure that its directly related to the bad stacking of the damage, as well as how many of em rolled 'biochem' when it was in the glory days. I have yet to see someone say 'yeah we had a bit of gravy on that train', Now they are playing the poor me, the world is ending.

 

Now, I do not mind a stun lock and down to half life in a few hits, teaches Me a bit more about the toons I play (SA/BH) and just think what a WZ would be like packed full of lightning people, and all of this 'one shotting' going about.

 

The problem is a direct one to the indavidual, and its the cause of the nerfs, if you find something that works, lets use the biochem and this 'op' class as a example, Why, what and WHO made you go into guild and say 'lol I can 1 shot people watch', and then you go about how to min/max, So, word get out and shocker, a nerf is a coming.

 

Now, all those who have spent 'so much time' (at best what counting early release two months?) on a toon, park it, put it on a shelf, YOU know how MMO's go, one class/race/specc gets a nerf, then next month another and so on, Often because of bad information in the play testing phase. (we are all play testing now)

 

So, as much as I'm sorry that its the class you are playing, I just know my time is a coming as well

[OsirisZoran]

So you're saying that in order for Operatives to succeed in PvP, they MUST spec Healing? That completely goes against what BW wants for this game. Please, leave this conversation. You're clearly a biased and inexperienced player who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

A class shouldn't be pidgeon-holed in to one spec because it's alright to nerf the other in to oblivion.

 

I said if you wanted to live longer and have more survivability. Spec healing. Like i did. if you want to continue to HIT HARDER THAN A JEDI MELEE DPS then keep your current spec, just dont cry about your 2 heals or whatever you have because sorcs only have 2 base heals also.

 

Yes im inxperienced thats why im valor rank 61 before the ilum valor craze in full champ/bm gear.

You clearly are a biased and noob operative.

[Gorra-Syn]

I said if you wanted to live longer and have more survivability. Spec healing. Like i did. if you want to continue to HIT HARDER THAN A JEDI MELEE DPS then keep your current spec, just dont cry about your 2 heals or whatever you have because sorcs only have 2 base heals also.

 

Yes im inxperienced thats why im valor rank 61 before the ilum valor craze in full champ/bm gear.

You clearly are a biased and noob operative.

 

I like how you tell everyone that you are valor 61, and that you have full champ.. you understand that this does not make you a great player.. dont you?

[Ravenolf]

I was wondering if the nerfs were enough, these posts make feel better. Now if only they would roll back that unearned valor.

 

Oh, and fear not, Sages/Sorc are next.

[OsirisZoran]

I like how you tell everyone that you are valor 61, and that you have full champ.. you understand that this does not make you a great player.. dont you?

 

the point was that i've seen my share of Warzones and i conisder myself a pretty decent pvper.

[Massyma]

Thank you for your time but...

 

It was needed.

 

 

/signed

Your Friendly Star Wars Community

[Deshie]

Hidden Strike completely fills the resolve bar. We can't use Flash Bang or Debilitate after we hit you. I think that takes out a little of your arguement, wouldn't you agree?

 

Sevor Tendon has a 10m range. If you're outside of it, we can't get to you to use it. So while it's helpful, it's very limited.

 

Evasion, while helpful, is only 4seconds. It's basically an "Oh s***" ability that usually results in your death afterwards.

 

An Operative healing in combat (weak heals, I might add) is not doing any damage to you and is taking damage. Why are you complaining?

 

Sap completely fills the resolve bar. If we sap you, we can't stun you.

 

There is no AoE Group Vanish. You have to be out of combat for Infiltrate to work. Really? If you're gonna make up facts, please, go away.

 

Concealement operatives can't use an in-combat rez.

 

Really bud, I think you're making up some imaginary class that can do all that, because I just don't see it. Nice try though.

 

I dont why you are crying. You have everything an assassin has beside force speed and guard. But you get heals and 3 in 1 attack. I mean really a Dot-Stun-Damage attack... How in hell was that not Overpowered? I mean okay they nerfed Jarring Strike so what? Dont take it and use a normal stun-flash.

 

I like how none of you have played with the nerf yet you guys all experts already. I also love how all of you operatives coming out in sheer numbers because of the nerf. Yet you were fine being overpowered and killing everyone. Sounds like some QQ to me.

[Vashiel]

The sad thing about this community is that even when an Operative such as myself agrees and admits that we needed a nerf, no one ever reads that. No one ever acknowledges that the good Ops KNOW we were hitting too hard. What you people fail to see is that while a nerf was needed, this went way beyond what should have occured.

 

But no worries, I'll be chuckling to myself whenever it's your class that's getting nerfed or when in the near future Ops get a buff or two to put us back on track. Either way, it'll happen.

 

So, anywho, so much for a discussion. I've had to spend my entire time defending obvious mechanics from players who have a failed understanding of the class. Word of advice: if you don't understand the workings behind a certain class, please don't post. It's sad that you can post blatently wrong skills and how they can be used, yet you still come to the thread and make concrete and sure statements about how our damage is too high.

 

Odd.

[raistek]

Obviously nerf is too much, without even seeing it in game. Numbers only are scary. I expect to see much more scoundrel/op healers in warzones. Too bad.

[Ghingis]

Sad that it came to this. What sickens me are the people coming to the Operative forums and literally gloating that we've been nerfed. It's really as if this was some kind of personal foul we've made against them. They really don't care if the spec is broken, as they'll only consider a win in their books. I promise guys, we didn't touch you in the no-no squares!

 

Wish there were Sorc/Sages who could speak with sense. If I'm willing to agree we needed a slight nerf, you should be either willing to agree with me or that you also need a slight nerf.

 

We'll never see either of those two happening though.

 

The problem is that the class was extremely poorly designed for PvP from the start, and there is really no way to nerf them without revamping the entire class.

 

You definately will not be useless in PvP teamplay after this nerf though, its just the fact that now you will need some help to kill healers, instead of being able to get them below the point of recovery in one single opener. Your CC will still be strong as soon as you add someone else on the same target, and your damage out of stealth will still be very good against most targets. I am pretty sure Operatives after the change will still hit harder in the opener then an Assassin, and me (Sentinel) and my mate (Assassin) litteraly walk through people regardless of gear as soon as he lands any CC at all on them.

 

It sucks that this change effects your PvE that much though, but that is something to take up on a different forum.

[Vashiel]

The problem is that the class was extremely poorly designed for PvP from the start, and there is really no way to nerf them without revamping the entire class.

 

You definately will not be useless in PvP teamplay after this nerf though, its just the fact that now you will need some help to kill healers, instead of being able to get them below the point of recovery in one single opener. Your CC will still be strong as soon as you add someone else on the same target, and your damage out of stealth will still be very good against most targets. I am pretty sure Operatives after the change will still hit harder in the opener then an Assassin, and me (Sentinel) and my mate (Assassin) litteraly walk through people regardless of gear as soon as he lands any CC at all on them.

 

It sucks that this change effects your PvE that much though, but that is something to take up on a different forum.

 

I appreciate your post. While I know that the changes won't dramatically hurt us in PvP, it's the attack to PvE that I'm worried about. I'm a raider at heart, with a strong love of PvP on the side. I just hate knowing that by joining a group I'm going to be bringing everyone down with my lousy DPS.

[lorylke]

There is so much whining about this it's ridiculous.

 

"We're completely impotent without our huge burst!"

 

That is utter nonsense. You have, in no particular order:

 

One on-demand stun

One proc stun

An immobilize tied to a snare

AOE 8 second CC

Evasion

Absorbs

A FREE high-damage positional attack

Two heals

A 100% uptime small HOT

Sap

Vanish

AOE group Vanish

in-combat res

DOT removal

 

You have all this, and complain that you can't spend five globals and kill someone anymore. It's utterly mind boggling.

 

Where the **** did you pull all this out of? AOE group vanish? DOT removal? 100% uptime hot?

 

You do realize that smuggle doesn't work in combat, right? that it's a 3 min cooldown, right? That dot removal only works on tech dots, no mental/force dots whatsoever, so sorcerers get a free reign there. 100% uptime hot? are you talking about the 1% regen we get from TALENT for pugnacity that needs to be cast off a retarded secondary resource system that we have? In-combat res is shared by 2 other classes (every healer-capable class, in short). Also do you realize that our "proc" stun is shortest stun in the game that also maxes out resolve bar in one go?

 

Let's do the same for a sorcerer class:

 

Aoe knockback

Friendly pull

Strong spammable absorbs

10 second 30m cc

4 second on-demand 30m stun

30m strong slow

2 30m strong dots

2 heals

aoe group heal

large aoe channeled spammable damage

large aoe low cooldown heavy damage

aoe blind every time your bubble explodes

high damage channeled 30m slow

spammable long-range nuke

AND... in-combat res

 

OMG THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS, YOU GUYS NEED A TOTAL NERF. get the **** out.

Edited January 25, 2012 by lorylke

[Aowar]

I'll say straight up that I, as a level 50 Operative, believe we were hitting a bit too hard. I can understand where everyone else is coming from in regards to that aspect. That being said, I don't know if anyone realizes that other than the heavy burst an Operative/Scoundrel provide, we bring nothing to the table. We have very poor sustained DPS, very little CC, and our survivability outside of stealth is abysmal. Those facts being stated, what exaclty do you all think we're going to be capable of Post 1.1.1? We are the squishiest class in the game and if we can't do enough damage in our initial stun/burst, chances are we're going to go down quick. As for Jarring Strike, this patch is going to make the entire talent completely useless. Who would spend 2 points for a 1.5s stun that completely fills the resolve bar?

 

The worst part about all of this though is the Acid Blade nerf. We all know that it's hard enough as it is to get in to a raid as a melee DPS, but Operatives/Scoundrels weren't even top of the line to begin with. Now with this HEAVY DPS nerf to our sustained damage, what exactly will we provide to any group setting?

 

These are honest questions I wish reasonable people would consider before claiming we're all FotMers, scrubs, or who knows what else. I picked this class the day the game went live because it seemed the most fun. People aren't over-reacting when they observe that this nerf may in fact destroy Concealement in its entirety and yet the majority of people on these forums get some sick amusement out of watching the spec die, as if it's some form of personal vendetta.

 

And yet during this entire time, no one looks at the Sorcerers/Sages with their insane bubbles AND damage? No one looks at Mercenaries/Troopers unleashing insane amounts of damage? I can't for the life of me figure out why the least played class in the game got singled out like this.

 

TL;DR - Yes, the initial burst may have been a bit too high and could warrant a slight nerf, but the Acid Blade nerf goes too far, ruining any and all chances of maintaining our pathetic excuse for sustained damage. If our sustained damage isn't increased any, you really will be looking at a dead spec, a fact I believe many of you really don't care and may in fact be happy to see.

 

My opinion on how the nerf should have gone:

 

Hidden Strikes damage decreased by 15%

Jarring Strike reduced to 1.5 or 2s, fills resolve bar by half

Acid Blade's armor pen reduced from 50% to 40%

Shiv, Backstab, and Lacerate all have their damage increased by 5 or 10%

 

This way we don't come out hitting like a truck but yet still have enough sustained damage to stand our ground once you come out of your stun.

 

 

 

The biggest side effect will be that all those FOTM rerolls will be SOL. Why should we care?

[Atamosk]

the problem is pvp.

 

they made this cool class right, a stealthy dude who doesnt need armor or the force and can still mess people up in the galaxy, in pve this sounds awesome! so cool oh yeah.

 

then we have pvp.

 

then you have pvp.

 

what can they do?

 

burst and run.

 

what else are they left to do? and we complain, and potentially ruin a class that does what it was intended.

 

This is such an awesome class, but pvp balance ruins this because people just want it to be boring and normal.

 

I dont see how this class can even do well in pvp. if you play in a group, how your supposed to be anyway, not stupid and alone, then how could they ever get an attack off. if i saw someone unstealth on someone i would do everything to kill them.

 

people are just mad because when they are alone a sc/op kills them. what else are they supposed to do.

 

rogues in wow had the same problem.

 

pvp ruins the fun of pve. sorry :/

[El_Gallo_Negro]

And yet during this entire time, no one looks at the Sorcerers/Sages with their insane bubbles AND damage? No one looks at Mercenaries/Troopers unleashing insane amounts of damage? I can't for the life of me figure out why the least played class in the game got singled out like this.

TL;DR - Yes, the initial burst may have been a bit too high and could warrant a slight nerf, but the Acid Blade nerf goes too far, ruining any and all chances of maintaining our pathetic excuse for sustained damage. If our sustained damage isn't increased any, you really will be looking at a dead spec, a fact I believe many of you really don't care and may in fact be happy to see.

 

No one whines about their own class being overpowered. So when you're the least played class, everyone whines about you. Bioware sees massive QQ, starts polishing their nerf-hammer.

[Mitchyslick]

Well operatives are pretty OP in the lower bracket, on 50 i havent had any problems with them.

 

And i think this in part fueled the walls of whine for a nerf.

 

But still, no-one should deny they needed a nerf, the nerf bat just was a few sizes too big.

 

Yes in the lower bracket they are OP for sure. But the damage does not scale with peoples health pools at 50 by a long shot. If BW is nerfing to balance pre 50 pvp, which I assume this is. Then they really are bad devs/amateur and have no business running an MMO. The funny thing is that most of the top guys running this game are the same guys who screwed the pooch on WAR, so what could we honestly have expected to happen?

[lorylke]

I'll put it simply, if bioware goes forth with this nerf, they will have effectively eliminated my will to play this game, and because of that I will unsubscribe the moment it happens and add this game to the shelf of high-potential mmo failures next to AoC, Aion and Warhammer.

 

But not only that, I promise to not buy a single product from you ever in the future. If you were to check my bioware account, I happen to own DA:O, ME, ME2, DA2 with all of their add-ons, which sums up to easily 300+$, I'd be more than willing to spend more than that in the future, but if you're gonna show this kind of poor judgement, this will be the last penny I will spend on you. And to add to that, I'll try and make sure that same goes for every single one of my friends.

[Drengir]

Funny how the operatives/scoundrels claim their class to be the "least played".. Yea now it is! Back when people realised how sick they were in PvP, it wasn't! Now it's all BH's instead.

And how they claim that the class is nerfed down to nothing.. So you actually admit that your class was wholly built up on your opener? Because that's the only thing they nerfed The "big" nerf you are feeling is the lack of being able to stack useables and the lack of having a immensly OP opener. Harsh for you!

And also, how can you know for sure your sustainable dps is awefull? There is no DPS meters etc in swtor (yet)..Sure you might get a feeling for it, or have compared to some alt you have, but you can't know for sure! Perhaps the other DPS is just really good, or you just suck at actually playing with your OP/SC in fights that last longer than 10 sec.

 

And all the funny stats people are making up about the sorcs/sages...Like how bubble is sickly good and makes you immortal. Rofl, first off they lose their shield after about 1-2 GCD, and then they have (unless they've been smart) the 20 sec debuff. Plus it's all but free. And for some reason it seems that shield is peoples biggest issue, that and the sprint. It's all "we dont have it, so they shouldn't get it either!".. Want the sorcs to start complaining about your stealth/vanish? Or troopers getting Really nice aoe as healers, making sure they easily can get kills/dmg, hence medals?