Sorcerer Nerf....

[Dronp]

The most damning statistic is the sheer # of Sorcs that are played. You cannot refute that they are roughly 80% of all Warzones for the Empire.

 

its not that they're OP...its the LIGHTING!!! Oh and the cool storyline! That's why you see 8 sorcs in every warzone in a game with 8 classes. Get it straight man jeez

[WarheartZero]

Except for intercede and charge, which can both be used to get you out of a pickle.

 

Those really aren't escape moves. One requires I have a ally nearby. The other makes me go at the enemy so that one definitely doesn't help. Even w/2 sec stun, it's certainly no gonna help like the force speed.

[DigitalDreamz]

 

Mainly because any nerf to the sorc class at this point would make the class absolutely useless in PVE and PVP.

 

 

The age old retort to nerfs. Every game, every nerf there is this blanket statement. Hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. Just ask the Operatives/Scoundrels.

[Dronp]

The age old retort to nerfs. Every game, every nerf there is this blanket statement. Hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. Just ask the Operatives/Scoundrels.

 

yea the best healing class in the game by far will be absolutely useless in PvE after a nerf....LMFAO have to bank that one. Classic comment

[Venilator]

The age old retort to nerfs. Every game, every nerf there is this blanket statement. Hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. Just ask the Operatives/Scoundrels.

 

Oh no the difference is Scoundrel/Op are broken its just their Whiny good for nothing player base who thinks its balanced for them two to 3 shot a player.

 

 

Sorcerers/Sages on the other hand do know where near the damage and their survivability is low. The only reason people whine and lie (yes you guys lie) is due to them having the ability to escape through things like force speed.

 

A class with no burst being said to be OP.... Now that is a laugh...

[mordredz]

What is this!?!? A Sorcerer actually admitting that his class might be just a bit too strong?

 

Nonsense! This guy must be on drugs or something. There is no way a player of a widely-believed overpowered class would come out and admit their class's OPness.

 

Anyway, I commend you OP and fully agree with everything you posted. Sorcs/Sages have far too much versatility. I think their utility should be nerfed before anything else, whether this means their CC, CDs, snares, shield absorb, etc. Their damage is the last thing that should be looked at.

 

Cause its hard to say im a sorc, nerf me? cause you can prove i am? k...

[mordredz]

Oh no the difference is Scoundrel/Op are broken its just their Whiny good for nothing player base who thinks its balanced for them two to 3 shot a player.

 

 

Sorcerers/Sages on the other hand do know where near the damage and their survivability is low. The only reason people whine and lie (yes you guys lie) is due to them having the ability to escape through things like force speed.

 

A class with no burst being said to be OP.... Now that is a laugh...

 

They dont 2/3 shot a player unless there relic/adrenal/pvpconsume on a fresh 50 no Exp at all, so that 3mins worth of Cd's for 1 player...

 

Oh wait i can do that on my Juggy, so nerf them?

 

Ignorance is abroad in this one...

[Dronp]

Oh no the difference is Scoundrel/Op are broken its just their Whiny good for nothing player base who thinks its balanced for them two to 3 shot a player.

 

 

Sorcerers/Sages on the other hand do know where near the damage and their survivability is low. The only reason people whine and lie (yes you guys lie) is due to them having the ability to escape through things like force speed.

 

A class with no burst being said to be OP.... Now that is a laugh...

 

yea whiny sorc nubs scared their OP class might get a nerf definetly make a better argument. I'm convinced folks

[fungihoujo]

Now before we even start i need to point out that I AM A SORCERER!!!!!!

 

Now i normally play PvE Corruption Spec, as i hate respecing all the time. Since the 1.1 Patch i found that healing in WZ's seem pointless, and extremely boring. As i normally get around 10 medals before the patch i find it extremely hard to break 6 (Inb4 "you are doing it wrong")

 

So i decided to switch to a hybrid spec Since we killed everything in the 1st 2 days of the week (GJ making Raids very easy, NM here we come ) Anyway my spec is 0/20/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZccMRdMrZcrcRsMk.1

 

I have so Much utility it is absurd.

Knock back : Roots targets

Shield : Absorbs around 3000 Then when it breaks it blinds EVERYONE around you

Force speed : 20 sec CD making you nearly impossible to kill as you can get a way most of the time.

Whirlwind: Instant 10 sec CC. When it breaks it stuns for 2 seconds.

Heal : They heal for so much, for a dps tree (But i don't even use them that much due to being healed by damaging abilities.

 

The Utility would be fine if i didn't push out 400-600k of damage a game with 70-100k healing. I understand what people are thinking when they say nerf sorcs. There has to be a give and take. The only classes that HARD counter me are Ops which just got nerfed... and Bleed spec Marauders.

 

PVP Stats:

HP: 15810

WP: 1615

Expertise: 460 (9.62%)

Crit: 26.29%

Surge: 72.39%

Alacrity: 10.03%

Bonus Damage: 673.1

Bonus Healing: 484.8

 

 

Flame On!!!

 

You hit that damage because you're a sustained damage class. You have no burst, and your heal which you brag about takes 3 seconds to get off- anyone who lets you get off a three second heal is rolling their face around on their keyboard- even clickers can use an interrupt in 3 seconds.

 

In order to get a better time on your heal, you likely would drop a stun- in order to get an instant heal, you need to drop the stun off WW, instant WW and root off overload and blind off shield- if you're so concerned about CC, ask for those things to be put a little bit higher and suddenly a pure dps spec can't work with so much CC.

[Cebby]

Whole lot of crazy people in this thread..

 

no burst

light armor

i can't kill them because they kite.

 

Nerf kiting!

[Armaso]

Sorry chose my words wrong,"Whirlwind: Instant 10 sec CC. When it breaks it stuns for 2 seconds."

 

But thanks for pointing out the correction and also proving what a *****hole you are. I can see you try to make a positive discussion in the forums here. I hope there's so many more like you.

 

I'm sure you'll be gone once you can pick a panda.

 

 

Just to clear it up the instant part has to be specced into. The 2 second stun when it breaks is wrong. If the WW or Force Lift breaks early because of damage, there is a 2 sec stun. Do the SW/JK not get a 10 sec CC? I know the other 3 classes do.

[Ishkur]

Now before we even start i need to point out that I AM A SORCERER!!!!!!

 

Now i normally play PvE Corruption Spec, as i hate respecing all the time. Since the 1.1 Patch i found that healing in WZ's seem pointless, and extremely boring. As i normally get around 10 medals before the patch i find it extremely hard to break 6 (Inb4 "you are doing it wrong")

 

So i decided to switch to a hybrid spec Since we killed everything in the 1st 2 days of the week (GJ making Raids very easy, NM here we come ) Anyway my spec is 0/20/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZccMRdMrZcrcRsMk.1

 

I have so Much utility it is absurd.

Knock back : Roots targets

Shield : Absorbs around 3000 Then when it breaks it blinds EVERYONE around you

Force speed : 20 sec CD making you nearly impossible to kill as you can get a way most of the time.

Whirlwind: Instant 10 sec CC. When it breaks it stuns for 2 seconds.

Heal : They heal for so much, for a dps tree (But i don't even use them that much due to being healed by damaging abilities.

 

The Utility would be fine if i didn't push out 400-600k of damage a game with 70-100k healing. I understand what people are thinking when they say nerf sorcs. There has to be a give and take. The only classes that HARD counter me are Ops which just got nerfed... and Bleed spec Marauders.

 

PVP Stats:

HP: 15810

WP: 1615

Expertise: 460 (9.62%)

Crit: 26.29%

Surge: 72.39%

Alacrity: 10.03%

Bonus Damage: 673.1

Bonus Healing: 484.8

 

 

Flame On!!!

 

What he said, everyone single word of it.

[Sgt_shades]

All dps in this game needs nerfed. Totally stupid anyone could kill someone in less than 6-8 seconds. People don't enjoy dying, they enjoy the combat. They are afraid battles will last too long with decent healing...guess what, thats whats fun! long battles. Getting hit by about any class for 25% health in 1 shot is stupid. We haven't even gotten to an expansion and they have most classes hitting 4k.

 

When are pvp makers ever gonna get it? Thats why everyone enjoys the low level pvp. The fights actually last a little while.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Sgt_shades

[CommandoPower]

The sorcerers greatest weakness is they simply don/t scale very well, as people get more gear, they get progressively weaker, but early on, their utility tends to overwhelm people, it's why you generally get people once they reach battlemaster stage wonder what the big deal about sorcerers is.

 

At that point, there isn't really one and they're one of the weaker classes, but the glut of mid champ gear/sub 50's/new 50's wondering why6 sorcerers are allowed to destroy them.

 

Terrible 31 point talents and utility spread way too thin means they don't get any of the +dmg talents.

 

Do you know how much harder a marauder can hit with full battlemaster? a sniper? an assassin? it's quite noticeable as these classes scale very well.

 

Know how much harder a sorcerer hits? barely anything

 

The class peaks to the top about lvl 30, makes another jump around 48, and then scales backwards from that point on, and by the time they reach the very top end currently, they drop to the middle, fast forward 6 months, and you'll likely see them pretty lowish and with everyone finally geared up wondering why the hell they were ************ so much.

 

I dunno what this would do except argue against gear being a big factor in PVP. Hard to keep something balanced across all levels with huge variances between normal gear, good gear, and best gear. Or even balanced at the same level really.

[Monterone]

Here's the biggest issues I see with people complaining about sorc damage in warzones. I don't know how many times I've seen people posting screenshots of sorcerers doing high damage in a warzone and then calling for a nerf because they did more damage than them.

 

They're not all sorcerers. The icon that shows a hand with lightning out if it represents Assassins also. The same thing happens on the other side, they are not all Sages, there are Shadows as well. Assassins/Shadows do similar or equal amounts of damage as sorcerers, although theirs is more lethal and immediate.

 

Can a sorcerer/sage put high numbers on the chart? Sure, as high as any other class. The difference is HOW this damage is applied -- and this is the main factor and often overlooked. I don't know how many times I've finished a warzone and went - ***? How do I have 200k damage and only 4 kills? How is that even possible? I'll tell you how.

 

Sorc damage, at least for the one played more in PvP, which is Madness spec, comes in the form of Damage Over Time or DoTs. We have Affliction which is a 15 second DoT and Creeping Terror, which is an 18 second DoT. There is another ability that has a 6 second DoT on it, Crushing Darkness. As a rule, I will try to apply the DoTs on everyone I see on the screen as that will end up being the majority of my damage in a warzone. In a period of 10-15 seconds I can apply about 5-6 DoTs on people on the screen without ever channeling Force Lightning and pointing an arrow to my location and committing suicide by doing so.

 

Over the next 18 seconds those 5-6 DoTs will do around 15-20k damage (counting in criticals) on various targets. This damage over time is what will add to my damage numbers at the end, more than Force Lighting will, or any other abilities that people complain about because they are more VISIBLE.

 

What people don't realize is that these numbers from DoTs are just padded numbers. They won't actually kill anyone. They may HELP kill a person but they won't actually burst anyone down. Another thing people are missing is that that same DoT damage also pads the healing numbers for the opposite side! A DoT can be cured/purged/cleansed, and all that force spent becomes wasted. Burst damage cannot be cured. A DoT also does not do enough damage to actually kill a person, so if a person runs out of range or finds LoS, they will HEAL or RECEIVE heals for any damage DoTs can do and will in fact pad the opponents HEALING stats, while not killing a target.

 

By comparison, burst damage is king in this game and most any other game. A class that can effectively BURST an opponent down will bring most to the team. Let's take the burst kings as an example, the OP/Scoundrel. No, they are not the only burst class, but everyone has felt their wrath and can probably recall the situation vividly. A burst class will actually shut an opponent down, will do enough damage in a short amount of time and put them back behind the force field in a warzone.

 

This is KEY for warzones. Burst damage will always bring more to the team than diluted damage. My DoTs will do 10k, maybe 15k damage over 18 seconds, but chances are great that those people will survive and keep going, unless focused by other members of the team. A burst class will actually kill that opponent and send them back to spawn and hopefully take them out of the game for the duration of the force field. This is FAR more valuable than 300k damage a sorc will do, with half of that being low damage ticks every 3 seconds. On top of that, a burst class will do those 15k damage in a matter of 3 global cooldowns compared to my 18 seconds.

 

Now, I am not saying that sorcs aren't great. I LOVE this class! But I love it in groups only. I do not solo queue in the 50s bracket as the experience is painful -- the sorc bubble can't keep me alive for more than 1 or 2 hits it absorbs and even this is getting more and more difficult as everyone is getting better geared. Once the bubble is down, we have the lowest survivability in the game, hands down. We have the lowest armor, no defensive cooldowns and no stealth. We DO however have Force Speed, which is a 2 second speed boost and it can save our life if used well -- however that's 2 seconds of speed which MAY or MAY NOT get you out of range, and then cannot be used again for 28 seconds.

 

So anyways, are Sorcerers great? Absolutely! I love playing this class, but I always play a mage/wizard/warlock/sorcerer -- whatever you want to call it, and the class fits my play style of 15 years now. Do I think they are overpowered, absolutely not. A well played sorcerer can bring a lot to the team, but a well played burst class can bring more, simply because of the mechanics of warzones. Do Sages/Sorc put up big numbers? Sure they do, but the majority of it is NOT lethal damage, and will also help the healers on the other side get a few more medals.

 

Take this post as you like, I just wanted to bring a bit if an inside perspective from a long time beta sorc.

 

 

TL;DR -- Not gonna give you one. If you're here, then read. If you don't care to read what people put time into, don't expect Cliff's Notes.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Monterone

[dbseeker]

They need to be nerfed already. I was just in a warzone with 5 spinless Sorcerers. Doesn't this tell you something!?

 

I mean it doesn't take brain surgery to know that since they're OP that every Sith is gonna wanna play them. Bioware, wake up and adjust their powers, or range. DO SOMETHING for christ sake.

Edited January 28, 2012 by dbseeker

[Legius]

Welcome to Sage Wars: The Old Sorcerors. Expect to see many more scoreboards that look like the following:

 

http://i.imgur.com/pOTn6.jpg

 

Yes. Every one of those Consulars is, to my knowledge, a Sage.

[Sgt_shades]

Welcome to Sage Wars: The Old Sorcerors. Expect to see many more scoreboards that look like the following:

 

http://i.imgur.com/pOTn6.jpg

 

Yes. Every one of those Consulars is, to my knowledge, a Sage.

 

Take your fake posts elsewhere. With all the empire that out number the republicThere is no way there will ever be a WZ with no empire in it.

[dbseeker]

Take your fake posts elsewhere. With all the empire that out number the republicThere is no way there will ever be a WZ with no empire in it.

 

You've got a good point. We're waaaaay out numbered. Something needs to be looked at to balance this out.

[Repefe]

I don't see the point. Once you nerf sorcerers ppl will find another class to whine about ...

[Tourne]

 

0/20/21

 

Heal : They heal for so much, for a dps tree (But i don't even use them that much due to being healed by damaging abilities.

 

 

 

I couldn't take you seriously after reading this: "healed by damaging abilities"...oh yes, those 124hps ticks REALLY save the day! Not to mention the oh so great healing you are doing with ranged and melee on you with you 2.3 cast time heal...

 

 

It's obvious that you are a PvE alt Sorc- nothing more due to that expertise you are sporting...hoping to discover some secret glory of hidden Sorc power. Good luck with your retired Op main btw...

 

just another Op/Scoundrel troll rage

Edited January 29, 2012 by Tourne

[zizzefex]

The sorcerers greatest weakness is they simply don/t scale very well, as people get more gear, they get progressively weaker, but early on, their utility tends to overwhelm people, it's why you generally get people once they reach battlemaster stage wonder what the big deal about sorcerers is.

 

At that point, there isn't really one and they're one of the weaker classes, but the glut of mid champ gear/sub 50's/new 50's wondering why6 sorcerers are allowed to destroy them.

 

Terrible 31 point talents and utility spread way too thin means they don't get any of the +dmg talents.

 

Do you know how much harder a marauder can hit with full battlemaster? a sniper? an assassin? it's quite noticeable as these classes scale very well.

 

Know how much harder a sorcerer hits? barely anything

 

The class peaks to the top about lvl 30, makes another jump around 48, and then scales backwards from that point on, and by the time they reach the very top end currently, they drop to the middle, fast forward 6 months, and you'll likely see them pretty lowish and with everyone finally geared up wondering why the hell they were ************ so much.

 

LOL. Tell this to the battlemaster Sorc's on my server. Give me a break.

 

They are all hybrid specced and they are all impossible to kill 1v1 if you are melee.

 

Charge/Leap/Knock them down... guess what you popped their shield and your stunned and they run away. You charge again/vanish and reopen/whatever, they lightning stun you and run away. You trinket and catch up, guess what WHIRLWINDED... they run away. If you catch up again (not likely)... haha.... AOE knockback. If you are possibly still alive (doubtful) from using every freakin cooldown and potion in your book.... and catch up again.... guess what... THEIR SHIELD IS BACK UP.

 

You have no burst.... you don't need burst when you can constantly snare/knockback/cc/sprint and do damage while not getting hit back.

[Raideen]

LOL. Tell this to the battlemaster Sorc's on my server. Give me a break.

 

They are all hybrid specced and they are all impossible to kill 1v1 if you are melee.

 

Charge/Leap/Knock them down... guess what you popped their shield and your stunned and they run away. You charge again/vanish and reopen/whatever, they lightning stun you and run away. You trinket and catch up, guess what WHIRLWINDED... they run away. If you catch up again (not likely)... haha.... AOE knockback. If you are possibly still alive (doubtful) from using every freakin cooldown and potion in your book.... and catch up again.... guess what... THEIR SHIELD IS BACK UP.

 

You have no burst.... you don't need burst when you can constantly snare/knockback/cc/sprint and do damage while not getting hit back.

 

resolve would like to have a word with you.

 

Also every charge in this game is half the duration of sprint and overload (knockback)

 

Also charge is the same range as our daamge. if you cant catch a sorc as a melee, you are doing it wrong.

 

Also lag favors mobile classes (melee) 100% of the time vs classes that stand still and cast

[zizzefex]

resolve would like to have a word with you.

 

Also every charge in this game is half the duration of sprint and overload (knockback)

 

Also charge is the same range as our daamge. if you cant catch a sorc as a melee, you are doing it wrong.

 

Also lag favors mobile classes (melee) 100% of the time vs classes that stand still and cast

 

That's funny because your probably one of those Sorc's that QQ about being chain stunned when in fact you can only be stunned once by a Operative which fills your resolve bar.

 

Actually I am 100% right in all my post because there are many Sorc's in my BG and that is exactly what happens each and every time I try to pick any of them off. I stun myself on their shield (doing between nothing to 2k damage if I crit (full champion)), I vanish, knock them down again dropping them to 40%-50% and then I never reach them again... not ever.

 

Happens all the time vs the same Sorc's... over and over and over again. No... if you can't put distance as a Sorc from any melee YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. It is not the game's fault you are a bad Sorc. There are plenty of Sorc's who have absolutely no problems keeping distance.... you are the one doing it wrong.

[Ryotknife]

resolve would like to have a word with you.

 

Also every charge in this game is half the duration of sprint and overload (knockback)

 

Also charge is the same range as our daamge. if you cant catch a sorc as a melee, you are doing it wrong.

 

Also lag favors mobile classes (melee) 100% of the time vs classes that stand still and cast

 

might want to rethink that one. range held a massive advantage in wintergrasp in wow when 150+ people were all fighting each other and you would be lucky to get one attack off every 6 seconds. melee were useless as they were unable to hit anything.

 

and feral druids (the most mobile melee spec in wow) get #$$% over hard by lag. my lock is barely affected on the other hand.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Ryotknife