Why would you ever want to be republic?

[dargor-]

Republic "mirrors" have to work twice as hard to prevent enemies from capping objectives, simply because most of their instants aren't instant at all.

 

Thats reason # 84

Edited February 11, 2012 by dargor-

[Walkiry]

Welcome to real life? Or do you really believe that our democracies are any less rotten?

 

That being said, the Trooper storyline is pretty much the exact opposite of everything you described... Granted I played Dark Side (which on trooper equates to being a hardcore military hardass who will do or sacrifice anything to complete the mission), but my view of the Republic was that we are a bunch of weaklings held together by common interest (in not being enslaved rofl).

 

Its a bit like real life, once again: you have the rotten greedy politicians/nobles/rich folks, always bickering for more power. And then you have the people, just tryin to have as good a life as they can have. You can choose to hate one, or to help another, but they are two facets of a same coin.

 

In the game this translates to this: Is the pettyness of our political class enough to outweight the need of our people?

 

If I wanted real life... Well, I'm sure you can finish the phrase yourself.

 

A treatise on societal maladies and a deconstruction of the real life mores is all well and good, but it's not the kind of thing one will do when trying to get the audience involved in the story (like, say, in a videogame), or hammer into what originally was a very straightforward good vs. evil narrative, the original Star Wars.

 

Attempting to engage the player with limited choices (because, obviously, we'll never have a wide array of choices in a game like this, it's simply not possible) into a conflict where I can't see a side worth defending and where I don't actually have any stake in (unlike real life, for obvious reasons) leads to nothing but apathy. That's the critical thing all this moral decostructoninst writer wannabes miss - if it's not real life, you have a much harder time to engage the audience, and if everyone's rotten and there's nobody to root for, you're screwed. At that point all you have to go on is whether your narrative is interesting in itself, not the characters or situations you're presenting.

 

You can have both the deconstruction and the engagement, but it requires a much higher level or writing than the fanfic-like content that's on offer here, if one wants to avoid coming off as a pretentious git. This is pulp fun, and should be written as such.

 

Unfortunately, as I mentioned, the current crop of writers are too "hip" for that. Too cool for school, like, they know real art, you know?

 

A bit like I wish I could have said to the Havoc traitors: "So.... you thought the Empire would be better?!?"

 

At this point, I don't see much difference to be honest. If we go by Star Wars lore, a few thousand years from now an Emperor will take over the rotten republic, and at that point the systems will realize how awful the whole thing is and have a proper uprising against the oppressors (and you get to play a proper good side too!). Better? Quite frankly, it may be better in the long run, since at least the Empire is more open about its intentions.

[Pink_Saber]

I love playing Republic. I can be a total dark-side jerk to NPCs, and get to play all the warzones... And even win most of them. Half the time I drop into one that isn't Huttball, the Imps are too stunned with disbelief that they're not on Hutta that they can't even fight back.

[corebit]

Bioware put half as much effort designing Republic as they did Empire. You can see that in everything from storylines, gear looks, saber-colors, fleet design, mirror abilities all favoring Empire.

 

They still don't admit, as you can see that they have no plans to fix Ilum, which favors the zerg faction (Empire on most servers). And planning even more same-faction warzones because Imps are too "inconvenienced" playing Huttball all the time.

[Darth_Urtani]

The people there are better.

[Arqe]

i do play republic becouse i dont have EGO. i do not need to dominate zones , i do not need to get things easy , i do not need to win most of the warzones , i just do wanna play , do some stuff and enjoy the game.

[LucasBishop]

I play Republics cause in the end we win, who wants to be on the losing team, get with the program siths all your purple lightnings and zergling hordes cant save you from the beatdown,

It is Inevitable

[Stonedsoul]

A treatise on societal maladies and a deconstruction of the real life mores is all well and good, but it's not the kind of thing one will do when trying to get the audience involved in the story (like, say, in a videogame), or hammer into what originally was a very straightforward good vs. evil narrative, the original Star Wars.

Straightfoward good vs. evil? What "Star Wars" have you been reading/watching?

 

The rest of your post is simply self-contradictory. You basically go on about how making the storylines more realistic makes it harder to engage the player. The problem is that just about every single chapter in the psychological encyclopedia disagrees with you there.

 

I have no interest in farytales. Johnny Do-Goods are just about as believable as the flying nun to me, so you can immagine how "engaged" i'd be fighting to save a faction of rainbow-shooting carebears.

 

The grey areas, the moral dilemnas, the inner-conflict between our motivations, our ambitions and our values, those are elements of a storyline that gets a reader/watcher/player involved. Not a polarized ideological metaphore... thats usually reserved for children's "litterature".

 

P.S. When you fight for "freedom", you usually accept the fact that some people will be "free" to be *****.

 

EDIT: Just read the 2nd part of your post...

At this point, I don't see much difference to be honest. If we go by Star Wars lore, a few thousand years from now an Emperor will take over the rotten republic, and at that point the systems will realize how awful the whole thing is and have a proper uprising against the oppressors (and you get to play a proper good side too!). Better? Quite frankly, it may be better in the long run, since at least the Empire is more open about its intentions.

So I take it you never actually saw or read any Star Wars material prior to playing SWTOR?

 

The emperor "taking over the republic" is from the Empire to begin with. They basically took over the Republic from the inside and turned it into the Empire v 2.0. It is the Empire at that point, with everything that goes along (including the oppression).

 

Democracy = greed and corruption. It goes hand in hand. Always has, from 3000 BC to now. Where there is free will, human nature takes over.

 

Your problem is that you see this as good vs evil. Its not.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Stonedsoul

[TKMaster]

Rolling both! I like a good story, and there are 8 of them. Why not read all the books?

 

If we could just play through the Class story / quests i'd roll all 8 myself, but if i have to do Balmorra one more time i may just jump out a window.

[Walkiry]

Straightfoward good vs. evil? What "Star Wars" have you been reading/watching?

 

The rest of your post is simply self-contradictory. You basically go on about how making the storylines more realistic makes it harder to engage the player. The problem is that just about every single chapter in the psychological encyclopedia disagrees with you there.

 

I have no interest in farytales. Johnny Do-Goods are just about as believable as the flying nun to me, so you can immagine how "engaged" i'd be fighting to save a faction of rainbow-shooting carebears.

 

The grey areas, the moral dilemnas, the inner-conflict between our motivations, our ambitions and our values, those are elements of a storyline that gets a reader/watcher/player involved. It makes it believable.

 

P.S. When you fight for "freedom", you usually accept the fact that some people will be "free" to be *****.

 

I mentioned "original", as in "original trilogy". Luke, Leia and the rest. Han Solo came around too, and we loved the fact that he shot first and went and joined the rebellion too.

 

Anyway, you're getting too bogged down in trivia in an attempt to misunderstand my point. See:

 

http://deplumedimension.bravehost.com/rambles/doors.html

 

There's nothing "grey" about the Republic. That's the point. Attempting to replicate only the worst of real life and setting the narrative for us to have to go along with it in one way or another, with no way out, leads to apathy. And apathy leads to the dark side, where I can shoot lightning and have a laugh, at least. If at least they were self-aware enough to play it hammy I'd give it a pass, but they don't.

[DarvaiXit]

I prefer the Smuggler/Bounty Hunter theme and rather stay independent. Seems to be the only classes where I can actually chose dialogue options that I like. Only bad thing is that with rolling one of those classes, I'm affiliated with a side in this war.

Although as Bounty Hunter I find it very satisfying that I can insult those posh Empire nobs. Even my companion Mako appreciates that. So I guess belonging to the Empire can be fun too.

 

I would never roll a Jedi or Sith no matter how awesome lightsabers are. Jedi bore me to death and Sith make me think of cheesy villain lairs.

I think Lucas Arts should give Bounty Hunters and Smugglers lightsabers. Although such an overdose of awesomeness would probably make my head explode.

[Stonedsoul]

I mentioned "original", as in "original trilogy". Luke, Leia and the rest. Han Solo came around too, and we loved the fact that he shot first and went and joined the rebellion too.

 

Anyway, you're getting too bogged down in trivia in an attempt to misunderstand my point. See:

 

http://deplumedimension.bravehost.com/rambles/doors.html

 

There's nothing "grey" about the Republic. That's the point. Attempting to replicate only the worst of real life and setting the narrative for us to have to go along with it in one way or another, with no way out, leads to apathy. And apathy leads to the dark side, where I can shoot lightning and have a laugh, at least. If at least they were self-aware enough to play it hammy I'd give it a pass, but they don't.

 

You do know there were a books way before the "original" trilogy, right? There is a lot more to the SW story then Luke, Leia and Han (who, btw, is a smuggler running away from a criminal cartel he is indebted to... what a "good guy!" /sarcasm).

 

You basically take the first 3 movies as standalone story, ignore 75% of the character's backgrounds, and come out with "it was so simple! Black and white, good and evil!" as a conclusion.

 

That is like me saying that the United states never had slavery because I didn't see any in Independance Day.

 

Everything about the republic is grey my friend. You just cannot see it because you choose to ignore everything that doesnt fit your point, aka, the entire Star Wars universe outside of the movies (and even then you ignore the background story and pretend it doesnt exist).

 

I get your point outside the trivia. But your link is useless because this is not a book. Its a video game. You don't want to close the door on either faction.

[Saberaltre]

Stay Imp until the devs wants to balnace things out.. atm its imp or go home.

[Listerman]

Because I have the power to roll character on both sides, and since I don't PVP, I don't have to put up with numptys. Happy as a clam.

[Walkiry]

You do know there were a books way before the "original" trilogy, right? There is a lot more to the SW story then Luke, Leia and Han (who, btw, is a smuggler running away from a criminal cartel he is indebted to... what a "good guy!" /sarcasm).

 

Dude... You're doing it again. Did you read my post? I said "Han Solo came around too, and we loved the fact that he shot first and went and joined the rebellion too." There is plenty of room for all sorts of character development in a larger story. That is still not the point.

 

You basically take the first 3 movies as standalone story, ignore 75% of the character's backgrounds, and come out with "it was so simple! Black and white, good and evil!" as a conclusion.

 

That is like me saying that the United states never had slavery because I didn't see any in Independance Day.

 

Everything about the republic is grey my friend. You just cannot see it because you choose to ignore everything that doesnt fit your point, aka, the entire Star Wars universe outside of the movies (and even then you ignore the background story and pretend it doesnt exist).

 

I get your point outside the trivia. But your link is useless because this is not a book. Its a video game. You don't want to close the door on either faction.

 

First off, have you heard the phrase "iconic classes" in SWTOR before? Yes? Good, that's what it refers to, and it came from Bioware. The iconic Star Wars story. There may be more to Star Wars in the EU and all the rest than that, but the original work is the iconic work. The iconic Star Wars is a space opera.

 

The Republic in this game is not grey. It's black. There's nothing grey about what's going on in Belsavis, there's nothing grey about all the corrupt politicians that practically stomp over each other to be the first ones to sell their mother to the Empire all over the gosh darn galaxy, of which Corellia is a fine example, or Alderaan for the matter. It's as black as the Empire.

 

And the link is completely relevant. It became relevant the second Bioware decided story was the fourth pillar. Narrative is narrative regardless of medium, form may change but ideas and structures stay the same. There is no door for having someone good take over and win this war, because there's nobody good left - except your character, if you play it that way.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Walkiry

[Microwavegerbil]

Just wanted to bump in here real quick and have a laugh at the guys arguing about good and evil.

[Walkiry]

Just wanted to bump in here real quick and have a laugh at the guys arguing about good and evil.

 

I take it you're enjoying the whooshing sound then?

[ROSS-]

I obviously have never tried republic and have been playing empire from to get go, but just looking at the classes, republic sounds underpowered and weak If you ask me,

Can anyone reinforce the republic ? I've never played them what's it like ?

 

because you Sith need to be irradicated, something me and my republic homies enjoy doing on a nightly basis on my server...

[Darth_Pants]

because im not 14, and i find the teen angst on empire to be completely lol and i cannot make it beyond lvl 15 because i am spending so much time loling. SLAVE! ZAP ZAP lightning! EVIL! EVIL !EVIL! its really lol to me. thats why.

[Hauvarn]

because im not 14, and i find the teen angst on empire to be completely lol and i cannot make it beyond lvl 15 because i am spending so much time loling. SLAVE! ZAP ZAP lightning! EVIL! EVIL !EVIL! its really lol to me. thats why.

 

says darth pants

[Stonedsoul]

The Republic in this game is not grey. It's black. There's nothing grey about what's going on in Belsavis, there's nothing grey about all the corrupt politicians that practically stomp over each other to be the first ones to sell their mother to the Empire all over the gosh darn galaxy, of which Corellia is a fine example, or Alderaan for the matter. It's as black as the Empire.

 

And the link is completely relevant. It became relevant the second Bioware decided story was the fourth pillar. Narrative is narrative regardless of medium, form may change but ideas and structures stay the same. There is no door for having someone good take over and win this war, because there's nobody good left - except your character, if you play it that way.

1) That is the definition of grey. It is some black with some white. There are corrupt politicians, but there are also good ones. There is crap going on in Belsavis, but there is one hell of a reconstruction effort going on on Taris. That is what grey is.

 

2) As black as the empire? Really? See this is the problem with your entire point of view: you seem trapped in a bipolar world. Take the little handle, open the door, step out of the tiny box and now tell me what you see.

 

- Empire: It is a dictatorship and a militaristic society known to enslave worlds and opress people.

- Republic: It is a democracy, which includes corrupted elements. It has a military branch whose main purpose is the defense of the republic inhabitant's freedom.

 

If you cannot grasp how this is a matter of nuances, I don't know what to say... literally. I have no clue how to respond to such a childish view of the world, even one that is based on a fantasy novel.

 

There are plenty of good people left, you just cannot see it because you are looking for a faction full of angels.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Stonedsoul

[SDFX]

OP, Lucas loves imagery but has always undercut his villains to make them mock worthy in order to present his heroes as more the la’cool. Sometimes, he does this blatantly on the large scale and right under one’s nose.

 

In this case simply look at the word SITH. To understand his take on them as human beings for simple good vs. evil storytelling, all you have to do is move the H back to being the second letter in the word…

 

In consideration, it becomes clear, as to why someone might prefer to play a Republic character rather than a cartoonish-ly evil … er … sith.

[Hauvarn]

OP, Lucas loves imagery but has always undercut his villains to make them mock worthy in order to present his heroes as more the la’cool. Sometimes, he does this blatantly on the large scale and right under one’s nose.

 

In this case simply look at the word SITH. To understand his take on them as human beings for simple good vs. evil storytelling, all you have to do is move the H back to being the second letter in the word…

 

In consideration, it becomes clear, as to why someone might prefer to play a Republic character rather than a cartoonish-ly evil … er … sith.

 

He obviously named them sith so we could use the pun, you're sith outta luck

[Walkiry]

1) That is the definition of grey. It is some black with some white. There are corrupt politicians, but there are also good ones. There is crap going on in Belsavis, but there is one hell of a reconstruction effort going on on Taris. That is what grey is.

 

2) As black as the empire? Really? See this is the problem with your entire point of view: you seem trapped in a bipolar world. Take the little handle, open the door, step out of the tiny box and now tell me what you see.

 

- Empire: It is a dictatorship and a militaristic society known to enslave worlds and opress people.

- Republic: It is a democracy, which includes corrupted elements. It has a military branch whose main purpose is the defense of the republic inhabitant's freedom.

 

If you cannot grasp how this is a matter of nuances, I don't know what to say... literally. I have no clue how to respond to such a childish view of the world, even one that is based on a fantasy novel.

 

There are plenty of good people left, you just cannot see it because you are looking for a faction full of angels.

 

Well, if you think the Republic in this game is "nuanced" then I seriously hope we never get your version of "nuanced" in the democracies of the real world. Good grief.

 

I don't expect a faction full of angels, by the way, you're the one who's constantly pinning this mischaracterization on me; and quite frankly I'm tired of your constant pushing of this strawman. Have a nice day.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Walkiry

[salvadorellama]

Not entirely true but for the most part yes!

 

One difference I know of is Jedi Sage and Sith Inquisitor is with the spells Project and Shock. Empires spell is instant and ours takes the time for the animation to finish to hit. Just one more reason for playing Republic, being the underdog is a lot more fun!

 

This may have been already mentioned so sorry if it has, I just got in and didn't read the whole thread.

 

A big one that gets overlooked is the difference between animation/land times of scoundrel scattergun abilities and operative vibroknife abilities. I've played both classes to 30 and the scoundrels draw time for the scatter gun is noticeably slower (at least 0.5 secs, which in PVP is an eternity).