Sorceror/Sage are seriously OP

[Redderic]

im sorry but to claim that your BEST dps can not drop a sage/sorc means that your BEST dps wouldnt compare to our WORST dps on my server. sages/sorcs are fine and your argument truly is horrid.

how about the fact i play a kinetic shadow as tank/dps and end up top dmg overall as well as medals protection and usually objectives as well. If i do not get in the top 3 overall its because i wasnt trying at all.

stop trying to prove a point by saying that anyone who disagrees is wrong or going against bads. its much more simple to flat out say you were luckily going against bads and that your supposed "BEST DPS" is actually garbage.

attempting to cause an arguement flat out instead of a discussion in your thread. i should report it.

[Jedimexi]

The biggest problem I see is that certain openers have a huge chance of success, while the necessary counters all have a huge cooldown. So that while 1v1 may be fine and you CAN counter classes, certain mechanics in a warzone which involves multiple players does fail a little due to you beign susceptible after your first fight until things come off cooldown.

 

There will always be teething issues with PvP in a brand new MMO....hells bells there are more than teething issues in everyone beloved WoW and how long has that had to try and balance things??

 

But small issues aside, much of what I see on these forums revolves around un-organised teamplay, lack of knowledge of the players won class and lack of knowledge abotu weak spots and counters of the opponent. I've lost track of the number of Sith Assassin posts which claim they are underpowered yet they charge in as if they were a Juggernaut or something and wonder why it all goes wrong.

[Kaboomslang]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I seriously doubt any other class can beat either of these two 1 vs 1 - and if you say "well my blah blah uber pvp skills beat this class" then guess what, you played against a sucky Sorceror or Sage so deflate your head bubble.

 

My wife plays a Sage, I play a guardian. Even being unfamiliar with the class, I went into level 50 warzones and was getting top 5 DPS, top 5 healing and medals up the ying. This is w/out PvP gear. I would seriously LOL while melee guys hit me and I bubbled and nuked them in their face.

 

Seriously, I've played caster DPS in just about every MMO out there and these classes are over the top OP. If they aren't brought into reality I doubt this game will last.

 

OR they might as well change the name to Star Wars, Sith Sorcerors VS Jedi Sage. Because noone wants to be facerolled over and over by classes this out of line.

 

I play a Sorc(Heals), have full champ gear, and can honestly say I have no clue what you're talking about... I spend my days playing huttball against my own faction due to the lack of Republic players on the server; I would say for the most part I play against fairly good players, at the very least, PvP experienced.

 

The only time I ever have the survivability that you're complaining about is when I have a tank with bodyguard on me, and that survivability only goes for as long as I can keep him and I alive... I'll use examples from Sith since I know the classes a lot better:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juggernauts and Marauders - we can kite them reducing their damage a bit, but unless we get some support with peels or cc they will win the war of attrition.

 

Assassin and DPS Sorc - Sins work a lot like Jugg/Marauder, except they have more abilities to interrupt my healing rotations making them harder to shrug off. Sorcs require a lot of LoS, the bad ones won't keeps DoTs up and will lose too much DPS to bring me down, however in the open they will blow us up quickly.

 

Ops even though they can't stim stack like before are still deadly when the trinket is down, but most classes share this trait (Sorc, Sin, Op, Merc, etc.) They're very easy to kite but can vanish and open on you a 2nd time which is usually when we die.

 

Sniper and Merc, like the Sorc, requires lots of LoS.

 

Powertechs are annoying depending which spec they choose, but probably the one class in the lineup I'd seek for 1v1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please note in the above class breakdowns, every scenario consists of me figuring out how to survive my enemy, not kill them as you would propose we're capable of. I played Madness a little post-50 because everyone was whining about it and I'm sure I wasn't as good at it as I am Corruption spec, but the play style wasn't so amazingly OP that I stuck with it, I switched back to healing.

 

Could the DPS for our class need tuning? Quite possibly, but healing in SWTOR right now is a bit underpowered in my opinion, running around with a 30% mortal strike on you at all times is almost comical when you think of the QQ it rendered back in the day in WoW...

[Zaodon]

yawn. l2p

[Sirolos]

Its immunity to pushbacks, you can still be interrupted.

 

This hasnt been the experience for me..ever..

 

Hold Position

While in cover, ranged defense is increased by 20% and you are immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback.

 

. CC immunity works if you don't move. Definitely being jumped by melee as a ranges most squishy class in game will help you if you stand still for 20 secs.

 

I thought we were talking about Sorc v Sniper ..not Sniper v Sorc+melee

Because then i would argue sniper+Merc v Sorc+melee.

 

I guarantee you will lose that debate.

.

 

. Hunker down is helpful if you are bursting squishy from range, its suicide in melee unless you have heavy support or opponent is undergeared/low on hp.

.

 

Again I thought we were talking about Ranged v Ranged?

 

.

 

Do you people even PVP or just do daily win to get some exp to get to 50 faster?

The lack of understanding of how competitive pvp goes is astonishing in you.

 

The lack of actual pvp experiance is astonishing in you

Also..learn your abilities..

[JBloom]

I actually think melee is out of control in this game and I'm amazed that more people aren't complaining about them. Sorc/sages rely on dots to do a lot of our damage. All of it can be cleansed/healthed through. Not so for melee. Plus we're easy to kill.

[Ruuprect]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I seriously doubt any other class can beat either of these two 1 vs 1 - and if you say "well my blah blah uber pvp skills beat this class" then guess what, you played against a sucky Sorceror or Sage so deflate your head bubble.

 

My wife plays a Sage, I play a guardian. Even being unfamiliar with the class, I went into level 50 warzones and was getting top 5 DPS, top 5 healing and medals up the ying. This is w/out PvP gear. I would seriously LOL while melee guys hit me and I bubbled and nuked them in their face.

 

Seriously, I've played caster DPS in just about every MMO out there and these classes are over the top OP. If they aren't brought into reality I doubt this game will last.

 

OR they might as well change the name to Star Wars, Sith Sorcerors VS Jedi Sage. Because noone wants to be facerolled over and over by classes this out of line.

 

You were playing against bad dps if they could not take down a full healing spec sage.

[Lerdoc]

This hasnt been the experience for me..ever..

 

Hold Position

While in cover, ranged defense is increased by 20% and you are immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback.

Ok, point for you, I use cover so rarely that I even forgot about that. Still, it is NOT defence, its AVOIDANCE on WHITE RANGED ATTACKS. Which means its useful only against other snipers.

 

 

 

I thought we were talking about Sorc v Sniper ..not Sniper v Sorc+melee

Because then i would argue sniper+Merc v Sorc+melee.

No, we're talking about general class performance in PvP. You thought I was talking about duels? Please....

I guarantee you will lose that debate.

Doesn't seem to so far.

 

Again I thought we were talking about Ranged v Ranged?

And again, we're not, we're talking about general pvp performance of classes. Sniper in pvp vs sorc in pvp.

 

 

Also..learn your abilities..

Boast in glory, you've got me on one ability, I need to correct you all the time. My point stands, yours not.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Lerdoc

[Beyaco]

I am a lvl 50 sage with some pvp gear. If I let a melee in range of me I almost always lose. I get stunned, slowed, interrupted, cc'd crit for 8k, crit for 6k= dead.

 

I am the glassiest of glass muskets (not cannon) My damage has very little burst. It is just consistent, persistent damage. Most of it is small. My highest crits are about 3k. I usually hit for around 1k-2.5k depending on the skill. This is hardly overpowered.

 

My shield only guards about 2.5k, or in other words- one hit.

 

We are so easily counered, that if you dont counter them you deserve to die.

 

Yet, people think that a commando and BH need a nerf? Those numbers sound about on par with a commando and BH. 2-3k damage consistently...

[Edex]

Note: the glass cannon defense only works if your cannon is made of glass and not a titanium super alloy.

[Anasazzi]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I seriously doubt any other class can beat either of these two 1 vs 1 - and if you say "well my blah blah uber pvp skills beat this class" then guess what, you played against a sucky Sorceror or Sage so deflate your head bubble.

 

My wife plays a Sage, I play a guardian. Even being unfamiliar with the class, I went into level 50 warzones and was getting top 5 DPS, top 5 healing and medals up the ying. This is w/out PvP gear. I would seriously LOL while melee guys hit me and I bubbled and nuked them in their face.

 

Seriously, I've played caster DPS in just about every MMO out there and these classes are over the top OP. If they aren't brought into reality I doubt this game will last.

 

OR they might as well change the name to Star Wars, Sith Sorcerors VS Jedi Sage. Because noone wants to be facerolled over and over by classes this out of line.

 

 

You are old enough to be married, but not mature enough to learn not to come on to forums and whine in an OP thread..

[Darth_Philar]

Sorcerers are super OP...

 

 

If you let them stand around and heal+turret.

 

 

If you actually do your job you can shut him down very easily.

 

 

I hate the expression, but I think it applies: L2P

[Lugh]

Ok, point for you, I use cover so rarely that I even forgot about that. Still, it is NOT defence, its AVOIDANCE on WHITE RANGED ATTACKS. Which means its useful only against other snipers.

 

 

 

 

No, we're talking about general class performance in PvP. You thought I was talking about duels? Please....

 

Doesn't seem to so far.

 

 

And again, we're not, we're talking about general pvp performance of classes. Sniper in pvp vs sorc in pvp.

 

 

 

Boast in glory, you've got me on one ability, I need to correct you all the time. My point stands, yours not.

 

Grenade, drop to cover, instant charged burst, 1 sec sniper shot, instant snap shot, instant quick draw.

 

1k, 2k, 3k, 3k, 3k Without crits. Elapsed time 5 seconds. add trinkets and crits those threes become 5-7k.

 

You are doing it wrong.

[Sirolos]

Ok, point for you, I use cover so rarely that I even forgot about that. Still, it is NOT defence, its AVOIDANCE on WHITE RANGED ATTACKS. Which means its useful only against other snipers.

.

 

No its a defense buff. not an avoidance buff..try again. Also if you hardly use cover, why are you a sniper?

O wait you must be one of those lethality things..gl with that

 

No, we're talking about general class performance in PvP. You thought I was talking about duels? Please....

.

 

If your able to free cast your snipe shots which do 3-4k per hit

The only thing you have to worry about is positioning..

 

You can immobilize melee 30m away, kb melee and immobilize them, be immune to leaps and pulls, and immune to CC.

 

What gets more effective than that?

 

 

Doesn't seem to so far.

.

 

It seemed that way since you tried downplaying this class.

 

And again, we're not, we're talking about general pvp performance of classes. Sniper in pvp vs sorc in pvp.

 

 

O, really, gee I guess positioning yourself to do burst automatically makes this class ineffective and unoptimal.

I guess the extra tools to avoid CC and WHITE DAMAGE ( which btw is every melee class but Ops)

The damage absorption is also completely ineffective

Cover, which makes you immune to interrupts, pushback, leaps, and pulls..also totally ineffective

O lets not forget the 30m immobilize,the one melee CC, a 30m AoE CC, 30m interrupt,a KB, and the ballistic shield team buff.

The Armor pen is also totally useless.

This class is totally lacking in performance guys..totally behind all the ranged classes

 

Boast in glory, you've got me on one ability, I need to correct you all the time. My point stands, yours not.

 

O yea, you got me all right

 

 

Grenade, drop to cover, instant charged burst, 1 sec sniper shot, instant snap shot, instant quick draw.

 

1k, 2k, 3k, 3k, 3k Without crits. Elapsed time 5 seconds. add trinkets and crits those threes become 5-7k.

 

You are doing it wrong.

 

^this

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sirolos

[Ra_tm]

Well. I just know I cannot possibly kill a geared Sage. I'm full champ marauder btw. You know, the DPS melee class....

They have too many tools at their disposal. Kickass armor in the bubble, DPS very comparable to mine, can heal and A LOT more CC.

 

Wish I rolled a caster.

 

 

But truth be told, we needn't balance the game around 1v1s. I just thought that as a clothier the caster would have less survivability than a freaking tank when I'm in his face. When it's actually the other way around...

Edited January 24, 2012 by Ra_tm

[Cruxe]

Well. I just know I cannot possibly kill a geared Sage. I'm full champ marauder btw. You know, the DPS melee class....

They have too many tools at their disposal. Kickass armor in the bubble, DPS very comparable to mine, can heal and A LOT more CC.

 

Wish I rolled a caster.

 

 

You're a horrible marauder, sorry to have to break it to you. I routinely watch sentinels wipe the floor with Inquisitors in full Champ or BM.

[Ra_tm]

Good to know. Thank you for enlightening my life kind sir. I am certain that after all of your years of experience you can definitely judge situations just by reading a small description.

And in all your wisdom you must surely know that if you see it with your own eyes than it must be that every other instance of the fact is precisely as you saw it.

 

Please enlighten us more. We, and especially me, am all ears.

[Sinnyil]

Sorcs and sages are rough, especially if they focus fire. But that's generally true of any caster in any game.

 

They're also extremely difficult to kill if there's more than one and they're cross healing, or guarded (or Bob help you, both).

 

As a tanking shadow, 1 on 1 I can take a damage sorc without a problem, and...well, its a draw with a healing sorc, due to my own self-healing and cooldowns. But this isn't a 1 on 1 game.

 

The way to deal with a sorc is to manage your crowd control. What generally happens is 2 or 3 people use a stun on one at the same time (almost immediatley) and then woo, he's free to do what he wants while his resolve bar ticks down. Interrupt the healing spells, wait for other healing spells to use crowd control, stay out of fire (purple goop from sorcs, not sure what it looks like from sages) and focus fire. Try to separate them from their tanks.

 

I will admit though that this game suffers from lack of a purge.

[Tierce]

The class isn't OP as designed, they just need to fix the bug with Barrage/Psychic Projection & Force Bending/Conveyance that allows getting unintended double benefit from the procs. The incoming fix to Sage's Salvation giving double healing is a good start. I would hope that a fix to Revivification for Sorcerer would also come at the same time so that the heal correctly matches the 1.1.1 version of Sage's Salvation.

 

Sorc/Sage are the squishiest class in the game, especially a DPS Sorc/Sage because their healing is really weak. Marauder/Sentinel, Operative/Scoundrel, Assassin/Shadow with equivalent gear rip Sorc/Sage to shreds. Sniper/Gunslinger & Merc/Commando can as well if they get the chance to tee off.

 

To the guy claiming that gunslinger/sniper is the squishest and he never uses cover, no one who knows anything about that class can take that statement seriously. L2Cover my friend.

[lendaugy]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

 

 

Exactly.... focus on them and they die rather quickly... sure they hurt, but they're squishy as hell

[Kaboomslang]

Good to know. Thank you for enlightening my life kind sir. I am certain that after all of your years of experience you can definitely judge situations just by reading a small description.

And in all your wisdom you must surely know that if you see it with your own eyes than it must be that every other instance of the fact is precisely as you saw it.

 

Please enlighten us more. We, and especially me, am all ears.

 

He didn't put it as elegantly as it could've been, but the underlying point holds true... Marauders do amazing damage and even though your snare is able to be dispelled it's only a matter of time before you're able to close the gap and absolutely s**t*ape us...

 

I would recommend asking some of your fellow marauders what spec they use, strategies for killing, etc. I always roll Warrior and if I were equal geared right now as a Jugg/Mara I would be facerolling all day with pocket heals. I've been told that they're not nearly as much to play solo.

[Amp_]

They're definitely OP. I think the SI/JC are in general. Too much utility got jammed into one class.

[MonsAlpha]

Honestly this whole Sorcerer/Sage OP thing is getting really annoying. I play as a healer, and have played as DPS before. I get focused a lot because people on my server know I'm a healer. There is one Marauder (who I will not name) literally ****s me every time he sees me. He kills me in about 5 shots and I can't interrupt anything he does because none of his attacks he uses are channeled. I try to LoS him but he always catches up.

 

The pushback I receive from my heals is HUGE. I can't sit there and just take damage from a good player. I did a 1v1 on Ilum with a guildmate of mine who is a DPS specced Vanguard. Trying to heal myself in between attacks was almost impossible.

 

As for DPS specced Sages/Sorcerers, look at them. They are probably using a mix between a balance and telekinetics/lightning build. They will use force lightning or telekinetic throw in order to get a proc that allows them to cast chain lightning/telekinetic wave instantly. Interrupt the lightning or throw. The heals they have are, well they have 2. One sucks and you'll only use if you need a quick 1k heal. OTherwise you move out of LoS and sit there for 2.5 seconds trying to heal yourself.

 

It is EXTREMELY easy to kill a Sorc/Sage. Interrupt them! If my heals get interrupted I get pissed and tell my team to *********** target the douchebag that did that to me and kill him.

 

Everything a Sage/Sorc has is channeled or has a cast time. AFAIK almost every class has one interrupt/stun they can use on a target. So use it! If you can't kill a healing Sorc/Sage, well youredoingitwrong.

[MonsAlpha]

As for force armor/static shield goes, it mitigates about 4-5k damage. If you have not dropped the bubble by then it will stay up. Once it is put on a target, there is a 30 second lockout (27 if you have Force Mystic Champion gear) and that target cannot be targeted by force armor/static shield again. Sage/Sorc healers are weak. Interrupt their heals and they're dead. We'll use force speed to **** if our team isn't there.

 

We wear light armor, we cannot sit there and just take a beating like a guardian/juggernaut can. We have no defensive skills that lowers enemies damage, nothing that increases our damage/healing (except force potency which grants 60% crit chance for 2 charges, once we crit, a charge is used) I save this for when I need to drop big heals to save someone.

[DarthKahel]

I don't see whats so OP about them the dps spec sorc/sage are easy kills. The healer spec is a long kill but not hard. The dps spec is squishy and the healer spec has a choice either try to dps or heal themselves.

 

If they're healing they're not hurting you and they're using up their force so that means they wont be doing much dps to you. Just use your interrupt and cc when you see them casting a heal and continuously use your damage.

 

And as for the shield if I see that up I use my weaker dps skills to bring it down (it doesn't take much) when it's down hit them with the good stuff it's amusing how fast their hp drops and they're scrambling for a hiding place to heal up but I prevent that with slow and charge.

 

However I can see if you're a tank that healers in general would be difficult to beat for you. I play a sentinel and a shadow. My sentinel seems to do well against all classes. My shadow dps spec has a hard time against tanks. But in mmos healers generally beat tanks and tanks beat rogues and rogues beat healers unless out skilled.

 

And if you want to say I've never fought a good sorc well all I do is pvp I'm in the queue 100% of the time Im logged in and I do a lot of world pvp. So either every sorc on my server sucks or you do. I'm gonna guess the latter.

 

Btw if you wanna be a killer then roll a dps if you roll a tank your job is to protect and debuff. So I will end this with one of my favorite alpha-numerical combos L2P

 

have a good day

Edited January 24, 2012 by DarthKahel