George Lucas Retires from Star Wars

[Myk-Ron]

Your analogy is a little flawed. First of all, comparing Zahn and the rest of the EU authors to DaVinci and Michaelangelo is...a little over the top.

 

Yes. It was hyperbole. Bad tactic on my part. Maybe they're not on par with those artists, but the point was that they're better writers than George.

 

I do think my analogy holds though. George Lucas didn't give us a complete picture. He gave us a part of the complete picture. And, the other authors didn't give us interpretations of that picture, they expanded upon the existing picture.

 

George gave us a great portrait, the other authors filled in the background and added on the sides. George painted an 8x10 picture, then the other authors built a vast mural around it. They added depth to it.

 

George made the lake, the other authors made the shore and the hills and the village and the mountains and all the things around the lake.

 

So, that 8x10 picture was his, sure. And the lake was the impetus for the vast amounts of scenery around it. But, he didn't make that scenery. He made the lake. He gets paid for the unending wall of scenery and awesomeness around the lake, but he didn't make that stuff. And, he gets a large portion of the money for it. He gets enough money from it that he can buy that big bucket of paint he always wanted, and now he's going to draw over the top of some of that awesome scenery because, hey, it was his idea to start with.

 

 

I reply to you, Kharnis, because you seem to be reading what I write, and I appreciate the discussion.

 

Thanks,

~Myk

Edited January 23, 2012 by Myk-Ron

[Noczod]

However if it wasnt for the picture of the lake no one would have made the hills and everything surrounding it. You really cant count the EU i mean do you really think George lucas read every single one of those or played every single game, its called the EU for a reason read them enjoy them, but dont think that they should be put in the movie.

 

Its a very very flawed point,

Edited January 23, 2012 by Noczod

[Obadaya]

...

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." Are we watching DragonBall Z? Does Anakin have some kind of Force-o-Meter to tell him how good he is? Nobody would say that!

...

Hmm... I will remember to use that line on my boss during my next evaluation.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Obadaya

[Myk-Ron]

However if it wasnt for the picture of the lake no one would have made the hills and everything surrounding it. You really cant count the EU i mean do you really think George lucas read every single one of those or played every single game, its called the EU for a reason read them enjoy them, but dont think that they should be put in the movie.

 

Its a very very flawed point,

 

That's because you're missing the point.

 

I'm not saying that he should have read every book or that he should have played every game or that any of it should have been put into the movies. I'm saying that if he's going to take credit for and money from all those other artists that fleshed out his galaxy for him, he should at least acknowledge that fact and make an effort to make a decent film.

 

To go back to the painting analogy; Yes, that's a cool lake, but the whole reason I'm looking at the lake is because of the wicked awesome tower on the shore. While it's a really cool lake, the bigger picture is even cooler. But, now, it's like he's going over some cool parts of that picture with a sharpie and drawing over some really cool stuff.

 

When you look at that lake closely, you'll see that it's not the best picture of a lake out there. But everything that's been added around it by better painters makes the lake look that much better.

 

The prequels are terrible films. Disregarding the subject matter, they're just bad story-telling. Horrible writing, contrived plot, bad pacing, and poor acting because...well...the actors didn't have much to work with.

 

I'm not saying he should have just told the other authors' stories, but he could have at least attempted to make something as good as the rest of the picture. He could have at least used those years between the originals and the prequels to work on the craft. He could have at least put some effort into it. He could have at least put as much dedication into "his" galaxy as all the other authors and fans have over the years.

 

Instead of drawing over that tower with a sharpie, and plopping down your shack, why not expand upon the tower with some battlements and a moat? A lot of people are looking at your Lake because they really like that tower. Sure, you didn't make the tower, and maybe it's not exactly what you had in mind, but this thing became bigger than you when you let other painters add the scenery around your lake.

 

Instead of blatantly ignoring that bigger picture, why not work with those artists to make it even better?

[CaptainTowers]

He Originally planned on doing 9 Movies back in the 80's when he was being interviewed on his future plans but had changed his mind somewhere along the way while doing the 1-3 ones. They do have good universe of ideas out there, and don't be surprised if he gives permission to hand it off to someone else down the road and he collects royalties - there are many good stories out there atm.

[DarylMusashi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?_r=3

 

Did anyone see this coming? I mean I can understand him not feeling 'appreciated' for the work he's done, but come on. . .talk about passive aggressive nerd rage

 

I thought this quote stuck out. . .

 

 

 

Your welcome for giving you so much money George. Thank you for not listening to your audience and giving us the versions of movies we wanted /sarcasm

 

Yeah, that is not cool from Lucas. He would be some nobody without his riches and fame if not for the fanboys.

[DarylMusashi]

Best news I have heard in a long time. Lucas lost his way with the franchise. He didn't even research his own movies when making the new ones. All kinds of continuity issues. The Phantom Menace was the worst movie I have ever seen. To this day I can not watch it.

 

Worst movie with the largest budget IMO. It beats out Independence Day in that regard for me. only way PM could have been worse would be to have Will Smith in it.

[Hydrium]

I don't read a lot of books but I've read some Stackpole, and the way that he writes that all Correllians have no use for odds and other Star Wars stereotypes infuriates me in the same manner that him wanting to do his stories his way infuriates you.

 

He's a good writer but damn he can piss me off sometimes.

 

And... don't get me started on A.C. Crispin... With all her use of the ellipses... She should be charged every time she presses the period key...

 

 

Rant aside though, I'm of the opinion that it's his movie, and he can do what he wants with it. I'm an artist and sometimes a writer (hobby), and if a bunch of fans (if I had them) ever started telling me that I'm doing this or that wrong, I'd tell them to go to hell. I don't care who else wanted to come into my world and write things about it, at the end of the day, it's my choice.

 

I very much agree with this:

 

Your idea is one based on the idea that you want to make what makes you happy and that is great. But you also can't ignore what "fans" say then ***** about them when they hate your product when you're trying to put a price tag on it.

 

It's called learning your target demographic.

 

If you live in a place called "We will kill anyone who paints a picture of a fish" and you do nothing but paint fish pictures, you don't really have a right to complain when the town gathers at your doorstep with pitchforks and torches.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Hydrium

[Smackwell]

Your idea is one based on the idea that you want to make what makes you happy and that is great. But you also can't ignore what "fans" say then ***** about them when they hate your product when you're trying to put a price tag on it.

 

It's called learning your target demographic.

 

If you live in a place called "We will kill anyone who paints a picture of a fish" and you do nothing but paint fish pictures, you don't really have a right to complain when the town gathers at your doorstep with pitchforks and torches.

 

Did you read about the whole "final cut" thing?

 

It was his intention all along to make enough money so that the studios wouldn't force him to re-cut the ending or movie to something that they feel is right for their demographic; what will sell. It's pretty clear to me that he wants to make his movie his way, and if the fans don't like it, he's okay with that.

 

As an artist, I can say I'm very much the same way. When I draw a picture, I do it the way that it looks good to me. If someone says "You did this and this wrong," my answer is either "Oh I didn't notice that," or "Yep, I meant to do it that way - I just think it looks better."

 

Now, say I was drawing a comic book, and some company like Marvel or whatever says "Wel'll publish your book, but we don't like your art style. Draw it like this, it's what the readers want," then you have a decision to make. Get your book mangled by some suits so that it'll sell better, or go off on your own and tell your story the way you want to. I'd personally go for the latter.

 

He can ignore what his fans say. He can ***** about them all he wants. It's his product. It's really no wonder that he wants to do independent films now. He can do what he wants without waves of ex-fan hate hitting him over and over again.

 

So, I really don't think the "target demographic" thing applies. He funded his own movies for the sole reason that the studios wouldn't be able to tell him to change the movies for their demographic. Really, he wasn't Michael Bay making a movie for the purpose of making buckets of cash. I don't think he ever imagined Star Wars would be as big a hit as it was. He just wanted to tell a story about a kid with a light sword and his robot dad.

[Vulkus]

Well I remember when I went to C3 back in '05 he was thinking about the KOTOR universe as a possibility for future films as was the big talk of the live action TV series we've yet to see. I think he just needs to leave the Saga as it is now, and tap someone to start work on some KOTOR era stuff. Love it or hate it, the Saga is complete now in his eyes. Im more interested in the unexplored and content rich KOTOR era

[Zhauric]

Heh, sorry but reading this thread only proves the man's point. How folks can be so up in arms about HIS creation not living to THEIR expectations is a bit much. You didn't like the prequels, etc., understandable. But the tone you voice that is what is more at issue and seeing how some of you are even 'raging' in this thread shows why he has had enough.

 

I on the other hand am thankful for what he has given to the industry and to my childhood memories. It's not easy. Not even close otherwise some of you would be doing it yourselves but you most likely are not. Unless you have walked in the other person's shoes kind hard to be 'overly' critical to the levels some are. I hope he finds the solace he seeks in his retirement.

[NasherUK]

Well, he didn't even direct 2 of the original movies right (ESB and ROTJ)?

 

George is an ideas man tbh. He gave people the starwars idea and someone else made it happen after the first movie.

Edited January 24, 2012 by NasherUK

[georgemattson]

To be honest, I'm a bit conflicted about this. I can respect the idea that he wants to keep his vision as true as possible to what he intended, but I don't believe that's entirely the case. Rather, I think his primary motivator is pure, unmitigated greed and the news that he is supposedly leaving the cinematic world for good, well... If this had been announced back in 1999, after Episode 1, I would have been thrilled. As it is, I think he has largely ruined any joy I ever really had for the Star Wars universe.

 

I'd be curious, too, how the feelings play out when compared to everyone's ages and (probably more importantly) when they first saw the original trilogy, because to me, "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" weren't just "movies," per se; to say they were the 9-year old's equivalent of looking into the face of God and having a transcendent experience would not be inaccurate, at least in my case. They were moments that expanded my mind and imagination; watershed events that changed me forever as a person, and that is why my inner 9-year old is still really ticked off at George Lucas. The adult understands, sympathizes, and fully agrees with the idea of doing your own thing and getting as much money as you can, but the inner child rages at the idea of someone who presented the world with something great and beautiful and then absolutely destroyed it.

[Noczod]

I belive the two he did not direct was ep 4 and 5, I know for sure 5 and that is the best one ever made. So that might tell you something. He should have not directed them,but if I was him I also wouldnt trust anyone to be able to direct the first 3 the way he would have invisioned them in his mind.

[fallenthorn]

I'll be the first to admit that I detested the prequels. And that G.Lucas ego is larger than Lucas Arts. And while I do not agree with alot of his decisions, I do agree with the quote below from that article.

 

 

 

I made a change are completely changing the movie,” Lucas says, referring to fans who, like the dreaded studios, have done their own forcible re-edits. “I’m saying: ‘Fine. But my movie, with my name on it, that says I did it, needs to be the way I want it.’ ”

 

Lucas seized control of his movies from the studios only to discover that the fanboys could still give him script notes. “Why would I make any more,” Lucas says of the “Star Wars” movies, “when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”

 

Then i look around the forums at all the Rage posts and I can see his point.

[Jiminimonka]

George Lucas is a child. Worse, he's a child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

Fact is, he made up an awesome universe, and, when there were people to reel back his more stupid ideas, he made a decent movie (The Empire Strikes Back, ftw!).

 

But then a bunch of far-more-talented writers started playing in his universe and doing MUCH better jobs at it (Timothy Zahn, Mike Stackpole, Aaron Allston...). Those guys, the authors of the EU made Star Wars the mega-awesome, incredibly alive, and amazing universe that it is today. Those guys are why people are still hard-core fanatics about Star Wars.

 

Most Star Wars fans will tell you they hate George Lucas. Why? Because he has a lot of really stupid ideas, and he's completely disconnected with his audience (i.e. - Gungans, Ewoks, and Midichlorians).

 

He was throwing a tantrum with the prequels. He was basically saying, "No! These are my toys! And, I don't care that you've all done amazing things with them, they're mine. And, I'm going to do what I want with them! And, there's nothing you can do about it! Neener, neener, neener!"

 

And, nobody could reign him in this time.

 

He's the worst kind of "artist." He's the kind of artist who doesn't trust his audience, who doesn't think his audience is smart enough to get his story. He doesn't realize that once you publish or produce a work it's not "yours" anymore. Not in the strictest sense, anyway. Good writing will mean something slightly different to each person experiencing it. With the prequels, we got to see just what kind of writer Lucas was with such wonderfully cardboard lines as:

 

"...I have trained you since you were a small boy." Obi-Wan says this to Anakin in ROTS, like he's talking to a stranger. Like he has to explain to Anakin that they've been hanging out for the past 20 years, practically living together, forming an almost father/son relationship. Like Anakin doesn't know who Obi-Wan is or why he should listen to him.

 

or

 

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." Are we watching DragonBall Z? Does Anakin have some kind of Force-o-Meter to tell him how good he is? Nobody would say that!

 

Mr. Lucas is breaking a fundamental rule of good writing. He's using dialogue for exposition. His characters are literally describing things in their world for the audience. Instead of letting the action tell us how ****** Anakin is, he has his character come out and quantify it for us. Instead of trusting the audience to know who Obi-Wan and Anakin are by the time ROTS comes out, he has one of his characters come out and say it. This is stuff you learn in Creative Writing 101. One doesn't use dialogue for exposition. It's bad writing, and it's insulting to your audience.

 

It's not enough that he makes boatloads of money off of every book/toy/videogame/comic/idea that has anything to do with Star Wars, he has to pull his wang out and remind everyone that it was his idea to start with. It's not enough that he's raking in cash off of people far more talented than he. It's not enough that people still love Star Wars because of these more talented people and the stories they've told within that universe. He can't just sit back and watch this beautiful universe unfold and grow and expand. He's got to remind everyone that it's not how he would have done it, and therefore, it's not "official."

 

Well, Mr. Lucas, if you had kept it all to yourself; if you had told the story the way you wanted to, nobody would ever have read/watched it. You wouldn't have an infinite revenue stream. You wouldn't have Skywalker Ranch. You wouldn't have everything you have now. You'd be that nerd in a basement writing stories and making movies for his Mom as she reads and watches patiently, knowing they're terrible but massaging your ego anyway because you don't have any friends.

 

Good, you're "retiring." Maybe now the universe will be just a little less stupid. Maybe now we won't have to endure things like beloved characters being killed off because you don't trust your audience to know the difference between Anakin Skywalker and Anakin Solo (because no two people in any universe have ever shared a name, George /sarcasm). Maybe now we won't have to endure gungans or the idea that teddy bears with sticks and rocks could defeat an army of trained and battle-hardened STORMTROOPERS wearing armor designed to deflect small-grade blaster fire.

 

You know why you get hate-mail George? It's because you're that spoiled kid everyone knew growing up. You're the kid nobody wanted to play with after about half an hour because nobody would play the way you wanted them to. You get hate-mail because even though you're that jerk, you make unlimited amounts of money. You reap the rewards of those better suited to tell this story than you, and you're upset about it! You sit on a pile of money that you don't have to work for and then have the audacity to complain about and degrade the way that money gets there.

 

Sure, you created the universe, bully for you. We'd like you better if you weren't such a dick about it.

 

Sincerely,

 

Myk

 

Whatever.

 

He invented it, his baby. He is retiring now. You can take over and make something that has been as successful for over 30 years. Good luck with that.

 

P.S. He made other movies as well.... and they were good too.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Jiminimonka

[RagnarokJC]

Whatever.

 

He invented it, his baby. He is retiring now. You can take over and make something that has been as successful for over 30 years. Good luck with that.

 

P.S. He made other movies as well.... and they were good too.

Can you name any of those movies he made (as in wrote/directed) since the Star Wars original trilogy and after the prequel trilogy? Take your time, you're probably young.

[Oneeve]

Indiana Jones. He created it at least. Spielberg directed (with George's help i'd assume) Edited January 24, 2012 by Oneeve

[Ahrounmoon]

Did you read about the whole "final cut" thing?

 

It was his intention all along to make enough money so that the studios wouldn't force him to re-cut the ending or movie to something that they feel is right for their demographic; what will sell. It's pretty clear to me that he wants to make his movie his way, and if the fans don't like it, he's okay with that.

 

As an artist, I can say I'm very much the same way. When I draw a picture, I do it the way that it looks good to me. If someone says "You did this and this wrong," my answer is either "Oh I didn't notice that," or "Yep, I meant to do it that way - I just think it looks better."

 

Now, say I was drawing a comic book, and some company like Marvel or whatever says "Wel'll publish your book, but we don't like your art style. Draw it like this, it's what the readers want," then you have a decision to make. Get your book mangled by some suits so that it'll sell better, or go off on your own and tell your story the way you want to. I'd personally go for the latter.

 

He can ignore what his fans say. He can ***** about them all he wants. It's his product. It's really no wonder that he wants to do independent films now. He can do what he wants without waves of ex-fan hate hitting him over and over again.

 

So, I really don't think the "target demographic" thing applies. He funded his own movies for the sole reason that the studios wouldn't be able to tell him to change the movies for their demographic. Really, he wasn't Michael Bay making a movie for the purpose of making buckets of cash. I don't think he ever imagined Star Wars would be as big a hit as it was. He just wanted to tell a story about a kid with a light sword and his robot dad.

 

I feel like you're missing the point by putting the artistry up on a pedestal. We're not talking about some guy on a street corner painting a picture. We're talking about someone who's made a multimillion dollar franchise and licensed countless products and put his name on everything. Each and every time he did that he took responsibility for the result. Thus the franchise as a whole became more than his sole works and belongs, at least in part, to everyone who has contributed to it.

[Jmannseelo]

What I find amusing is the hardcore fanbase, who make up the smallest fraction of the Star Wars audience, acts as if the multi-million Prequels unequivocally failed.

[Noczod]

I feel like you're missing the point by putting the artistry up on a pedestal. We're not talking about some guy on a street corner painting a picture. We're talking about someone who's made a multimillion dollar franchise and licensed countless products and put his name on everything. Each and every time he did that he took responsibility for the result. Thus the franchise as a whole became more than his sole works and belongs, at least in part, to everyone who has contributed to it.

 

Just stop man, you have to be the maddest fan boy I have ever seen in my life. Get over it, the movies were not what you had imagined in your mind. At the end of the day it Lucas work his name is on it, its is bank account. It his everything. Just because you read a book that some one wrote, a story from there mind and your mad thats not what happened in the movies.

[RagnarokJC]

What I find amusing is the hardcore fanbase, who make up the smallest fraction of the Star Wars audience, acts as if the multi-million Prequels unequivocally failed.

I find it more amusing when ignorant fanboys pull numbers out of their asses.

[RagnarokJC]

Indiana Jones. He created it at least. Spielberg directed (with George's help i'd assume)

Yeah, so that wasn't Lucas' baby alone which was the point of my question.

[Jmannseelo]

I find it more amusing when ignorant fanboys pull numbers out of their asses.

 

Yeah, you got me. One has only to look around and see how miserably Star Wars is failing. It's such a barren desert out there.

 

back at ya.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Jmannseelo

[Pplwithnolives]

Come on guys! Star Wars is probably the best idea ever. The fact that the genius behind it all is retiring from it is sad. Sure it might have got worse over the years (Episode II and III). But in 50 years it has a high probability of being god awful. Like they make a stupid story line or they become so desperate that they start making ***********. Maybe just another one of the ****** prequels or animated shows or another Force Unleashed. But George Lucas could never ruin Star Wars to turn it into the joke of the millennium. However it probably will happen now.