Are Guardians Really THAT Bad?

[Staleningrad]

Are Guardians really as bad as people say they are? From reading the forums, it seems that they're a horrible class, as of right now. I'm currently level 10 and wanted a Guardian, but now I don't know. Do they really only get remotely decent at level 50?

[Vallz]

My friend is gettin 400-500k dmg and 10+ medals every game with Jugger which is mirror, and also saw guardin pvp video of him critting 9-11 k dmg

 

so no they are not bad,

Edited January 23, 2012 by Vallz

[Thelegendiryoku]

I have a level 50 guardian tank, they are one of the best classes.

 

In PvP I get 8-10 medals a match. A lot of those come from PROTECTING other group members.

 

If someone thinks guardians are a bad class because all they do is try to kill people and are only getting 1-2 medals, that is why.

 

In PvE they are a blast as well. As long as you keep up with your gear for your level as well as mods, it is an easy class to play.

[bamsmacked]

Are Guardians really as bad as people say they are? From reading the forums, it seems that they're a horrible class, as of right now. I'm currently level 10 and wanted a Guardian, but now I don't know. Do they really only get remotely decent at level 50?

 

The vigilance tree needs some work, the ability day especially hurts us and the animations screw up from time to time - result in you're attacks either not firing or an attack like Master Strike animations will happen yet no damage. So basically it makes you a sitting duck.

 

Plasma Brand the top tier talent isn't even that great. It costs 5 focus, although 1 is refunded if Shien is activated it requires the target to have armor debuff and the base damage on the attack is pretty low, not to mention the DOT isn't even all that great in level 50 warzones IMO.

 

I don't always use Sundering Strike as soon as I enter a fight, if I already have ample supply of focus I will immediately go for a Overhead Slash because its our hardest hitting ability, and then to a Blade Storm which gets a 60% chance to crit from Force Rush which is activated after an OS, or a PB attack.

 

Really the only times I use PB is when I'm trying to take out a particular enemy fast and I'll end up burning up all my focus and probably won't taunt or root anyone, or against a lone enemy or power tanker.

 

If the prerequisites of sundered armor and the focus cost was 1 less it might be a good ability but as it stands now our top tier talent puts us at a disadvantage - because it costs a lot, has prerequisites and damage is moderate at best.

Edited January 23, 2012 by bamsmacked

[GhostRiderLSOV]

A lot of those come from PROTECTING other group members.

 

If someone thinks guardians are a bad class because all they do is try to kill people and are only getting 1-2 medals, that is why.

 

Wholeheartedly agreed.

 

Although some folks keep using "guard" on people who are not even close to them and I can't guard their target myself. Which is a problem when the target and I are alone.

 

(spy's sapping my medals!)

[Laga]

Although some folks keep using "guard" on people who are not even close to them and I can't guard their target myself. Which is a problem when the target and I are alone.

 

THAT is intensly annoying. I am constantly switching my guard to whoever needs it, just looking at the heal bars and with the action going on i keep missing the 'target is already guarded' so i'm running around like a plum trying to get guard on ppl

 

But honestly, Guardians are pretty damn cool as a class, but avoid like the plague if you 'click' and want to PvP effectively, there's so many skills you need to be using, whilst melee'ing, i can't imagine what it would be like having to keep one eye on your quickslots too (more than you do waiting for CD's that is)

[WarheartZero]

Love the class. I'm PvE tree based at lvl 50. But I'm mostly PVPin right now to get Champ gear vs doing dailies for lvl 50 mods. 17k unbuffed HP.

 

Love the class. I usually get 1st or 2nd most medals in Warzones, average about 80K protection and I'm not even in PVP tree. Tank in PVP sucks if there's no healers as I will protect so much that if I guard sometimes I'll just drop dead lol.

 

I'm just gearing and PVP while I wait for my friends to hit 50 before I do hard flashpoints and OPs. (not a fan of pugging now a days, most people are elitist jerks, no help or rude, Probably why people have hard time finding tanks.)

[Seraffim]

Are Guardians really as bad as people say they are? From reading the forums, it seems that they're a horrible class, as of right now. I'm currently level 10 and wanted a Guardian, but now I don't know. Do they really only get remotely decent at level 50?

 

 

how about u LOOK and judge urself ?

 

[corjoad]

THAT is intensly annoying. I am constantly switching my guard to whoever needs it, just looking at the heal bars and with the action going on i keep missing the 'target is already guarded' so i'm running around like a plum trying to get guard on ppl

 

But honestly, Guardians are pretty damn cool as a class, but avoid like the plague if you 'click' and want to PvP effectively, there's so many skills you need to be using, whilst melee'ing, i can't imagine what it would be like having to keep one eye on your quickslots too (more than you do waiting for CD's that is)

 

+3 for this. Nothing more annoying when you tab around for a target to guard and can't find any, then find at the end of the match that you are the only person with any damage mitigated.

[Calibretto]

I haven't hit 50 yet (47 atm) but they're definitely not a bad class. They're not the best but they're not as bad as many make them out to be. Remember that a lot of posts complaining about them being bad are from straight up bad players.

 

There are tweaks I'd like to see made to the class but overall you can definitely perform. My first day of WZ's I was averaging 7-8 medals, was topping defense meters and actually putting up respectable damage (not topping charts but definitely representing). In PvE I've been Defense spec from level 10 on and while there have been some lulls in the action the main lesson I've learned is keep your gear up to date. Make sure your hilt is the latest and greatest and your armor is up to snuff. I showed up on Belsavis thinking the game was ez mode and got beat the heck up. Had to go back and grab some gear. Once I got the gear Belsavis went back to being a breeze.

[xxWargodxx]

Are Guardians really as bad as people say they are? From reading the forums, it seems that they're a horrible class, as of right now. I'm currently level 10 and wanted a Guardian, but now I don't know. Do they really only get remotely decent at level 50?

 

My main character is a level 50 Guardian. I levelled him as tank spec and continue to PvE and PvP with him as a tank. I've toyed with the hybrid Vigilence/Defense and full Defense spec's, right now I'm Defense spec'd. I've tanked several of the hard mode FP's and normal Eternity Vault. I'm only valor level 22 but have gotten lucky on bags and PvE gear, so I currently have over 19k health when Commando buffed, with defense and shield hovering around 50% or so.

 

Now, to address your topic. For PvE levelling the Guardian, as a tank, is not 'bad' by any means. Keep Kira handy and you will breeze through the content, this is especially true if you're a biochemist. For PvE end game I would say the Guardian is not 'bad' as well. I'm thinking we get a reputation for being bad because we are not easy to play, especially when compared to the Vanguard (of which I also have as a tank spec). Our PvE tank rotation is beyond crazy, and I've tanked in every major MMO execpt WoW. You spend most of your time watching your focus bar and watching for abilities coming off GCD rather than watching how the fight is progressing. But once you get your flow it does become easier. If you're not up to the task then yes, the Guardian tank in PvE will seem to be 'bad.'

 

For PvP I would also say the tank spec'd Guardian is by no means 'bad.' Of course the same rotation difficulty that you experience in PvE comes into play in PvP, but you have to train yourself to get out of the PvE tanking mindset and into the PvP, 'let's get the win,' mindset and things become easier. My primary role in PvP is to soak up damage via Guard and taunts, this is an easy task. My second role is to CC to help the team win, which I think I'm fairly good at. We have Freeze, Awe, Hilt Strike, Stasis, Push and Leap, which is a nice toolset. I'm not saying it's the best tooset, but it is our secondary role in PvP and it can be a game winner, especially Freeze. In this role I constantly end the match in the top 3 for medals, you can't call that 'bad.'

 

Sorry for the holy wall of text but I felt like being wordy! In the end, the Guardian is not 'bad,' but takes more effort than other classes to break out of the 'bad' stereotype.

[Laga]

Oh and just to confirm what others have said about WZ medals - i'm dissapointed if i drop below 9-10 medals a Warzone (average about 10 with 13 being the most i've got pre Medpac medal dissapearing) Most out and out DPS/Healing classes are getting roughly 3-4 medals less in total

 

Which means you lvl Valour quicker, get commendations quicker and therefore get champ bags quicker!

[Crowingzero]

Oh and just to confirm what others have said about WZ medals - i'm dissapointed if i drop below 9-10 medals a Warzone (average about 10 with 13 being the most i've got pre Medpac medal dissapearing) Most out and out DPS/Healing classes are getting roughly 3-4 medals less in total

 

Which means you lvl Valour quicker, get commendations quicker and therefore get champ bags quicker!

 

It is a bit annoying though, that I have to spend half the match in Soresu Guarding someone for the protection medals, then switch to Shii-Cho and dps my little butt off trying to get the dps medals.

 

I wish it flowed a little more naturally. Rather than "Well I already got my protection medals so sorry buddy but I'm not gonna bother Guarding you anymore because I won't get my damage medals if I do".

[Belly]

I think it's the same for every class, but most especially meele, that you HAVE to keep your gear current. I struggled to 50 with my shadow at times, so with my Guardian (only lvl 20) I've always made sure to have the best gear, blues and purples, PvE is almost too easy. I'm holding off on PvP until I get back home and don't have 800+ lag

[nininininja]

No, they aren't.

 

But some people who play them are.

[Atamasama]

+3 for this. Nothing more annoying when you tab around for a target to guard and can't find any, then find at the end of the match that you are the only person with any damage mitigated.

 

They need to change the mechanics for this. You should be able to usurp another player's Guard buff if they are out of the 15m range to keep it active. I see no downside to this, if you're afraid of someone "stealing" your Guard, stick near the person you're guarding like you should be.

[Aroidan]

I love the class for PVE. PVP on the other hand is more annoying then fun. Between the lag in our instant abilities firing off (force sweep, challenging call, force leap) and all knock backs and pull abilities it makes playing the class feel more like a chore. I will regularly leap into the middle of a group of 3-5 guys and hit my force sweep only to have some commando launch a grenade into the middle of the pack and fling them all out of range before force sweep goes off. There also isn't a way to cancel the ability when that happens which means I have to wait 9 seconds to get it back up again.

 

Also another thing I have noticed is that when a Marauder or Juggernaut leap at me I am frozen and can't move until after the leap animation completes. However the same does not seem to happen for me when I leap at a target. Also it isn't the optional stun from the leap as I can still hit other abilities.

 

Another thing that annoys me for PVP is all the LOS issues. Most of the melee abilities require the target be in front of you. By itself it probably isn't that big of a deal but combined with all the other mechanics/bugs it really adds to the annoyance.

 

Now if they gave us back force pull, fixed the animation bugs so that abilities go off when I hit them, maybe reduced the cooldown of resolute so I don't spend half my time stun locked (Resolve bar resets after they nuke you down and kill you), as well as a few other things then the class would be awesome. Right now there are just a lot of little things that add up to one bigger problem. I am not asking really for better abilities just better game mechanics.

 

As for the medals here are the ones I regularly get

 

2k Defense single life

5k Defense

2.5k damage single hit

75k single hit

10 Kills

Killing Blow

 

These medals I also tend to get but depends on the WZ and situations

 

2.5k Heal (Off the crit heal from resolute, medpacks never do more then 2.4k for me)

25 Kills (depends on heals and dps of the group)

1k Defender points (depends on map, haven't gotten it in void star)

3k Defender points (Depends on map, so far only been able to get it on civil war)

Assasin (depends if someone else shows up and class)

10k defense single life (Depends on healers)

 

Medals I have not gotten

 

300k healing

300k damage (closest was 280k)

 

Now I am not in full champ or battlemaster gear yet (bad luck on bags) but I am Valour rank 47. So a couple of those situational ones might be added to the regular medals. So given that information anyone who says they regularly get 13 medals as a guardian is full of it. Highest I have seen for any class on any battle is 13 and that was from a sorc in full BM gear and that does not happen regularly. I will regularly see people get 8-10 medals on any map but beyond that it really depends on what happens in the WZ.

 

Ohh and as far as Guard goes, I don't use it in PVP even when I was defense spec. The range is too short to be effective and most of the knock backs or pulls will take you out of range. Also you have to be in soreseu form to use it which really gimps your damage and doesn't really increase your survivability. It should, but if I am in a group of 3 or 4 sith I die just as fast in both forms (usually about 4 seconds). I am currently focus spec.

 

I am currently leveling a vanguard to see how they play in PVP. Haven't tried a range tank class before. I am also leveling a sage

[xCOLBYJACKx]

Most of the major complaining I've seen has been from Guardians who are leveling in the 10-35 range, while the most legitimate complaint I've seen is just that Guardians don't get most of their best abilities until far later than they should.

 

So my understanding of it is that Guardian is a bit of a trudge early on but gets pretty solid performance at 50.

[Paydroid]

^^ +1

 

I think there are 4 legit problems with the class:

1) It is unnecessarily difficult to solo with a guardian until ~35 due to a combination of no healers and missing moves (it is incredible how much of a difference saber throw and 5th level talents like overhead strike make)

2) Their ability to tank a large number of mobs is not great

3) The defense and vigilance trees are a little bit confused

4) The class is not as survivable in PvP as it probably ought to be

 

Guardians can definitely do enough damage in PvP when specced for it, offer some good utility skills if they're not, and in PvE they can be excellent tanks when the number of mobs is not too large.

 

I honestly can't speak to their ability to DPS in a PvE scenario.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Paydroid

[Aroidan]

You get a healer companion at 14-16 when you get your ship, although granted Doc is much better at it.

 

I have not had any problems tanking multiple elites assuming the healer was doing their job. You don't run into the multiple elites at the same time through the class quests or non heroric quests. I also had no problems soloing most of the elite bosses. Some would take a few tries until I caught which abilities I needed to interrupt but other than that no big problem. Also you have to make sure you keep up with your gear! That was kind of a pain since I took artifice.

 

They definately get more utility and fun as you play them up to 50. Like I said in my previous post the PVE is fine. The big problem is PVP.

 

Ohh and as far as the ability to DPS in PVE scenario they *********** rock. AOE DPS FTW. I can take down silver mobs in 2-3 force sweeps usually and regular in 1 or 2. If you spec for it that is. You just have to make sure you use a leap before the sweep to guarantee the crit.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Aroidan

[Drakks]

Let's be clear what sucks about being a guardian, and it really comes down to one thing: defense, shield, and mitigation don't work against everything. It means there are many situations where you tank (and to be clear, tank = take incoming damage) well, many where you are as good as any non-tank class, and many where you tank far worse than a sorceror/sage with their shield up.

 

Where this comes into play:

 

- Internal and elemental damage do not obey mitigation, trigger shields or defense. Many classes have specs where this is their primary damage form. Critical attacks also do not trigger shielding. The only thing that obeys the rules of all your defense are non-critical weapon damage attacks.

 

So, guardians who give up damage for tanking power turn out to be giving up damage for, quite often, nothing. You leap into packs that hit for non-weapon damage and wonder *** just happened. This leads to the feeling that guardians suck -- which, they only do by proxy because armor, shielding, and defense are really broken to the point where the dps pvp set at 50 is vastly superior than the tanking set solely because the tanking set stats are, more often than not, worthless.

 

 

For more data on this problem, this guy did a great job of summing it up and showing his findings: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

A dps guardian at 50 is amazing, but the problem is that you really need to be deep in your chosen dps tree to feel it's advantages, which leads to the "late bloomers" comments.

 

Don't fret too much about it though -- play your guardian if you like the class, and know that at some point they will work this crap out. If you're not enjoying it, don't play it. It's a game and it's really that simple.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Drakks