STOP copying WoW and start copying DAoC

[Soazak]

Agreed, it cannot be denied that DAoC had one of the best PvP systems to date. Sure WoW has more subscribers, but that is mainly based on their PvE, not their PvP.

 

For most of it's lifespan, WoW PvP has been pretty lackluster. WoW may have 12 million players (not subscribers), but it doesn't have 12 million PvPers.

[neurosisxeno]

The truth about "12 million players BS from Blizzard" is here

 

I agree with OP.

 

Stop copying WoW. People are quitting wow, not only for the panda and pokemon battles, not only for the graphics getting old (but still cartoonish though) but FOR THE BORING OLD GRIND it's become, not fun anymore.

 

His argument basically boils down to they are being vague by being literal -.-

[Fearo]

First off let me state that I'm a huge fan of daoc and played it for years.

 

To call WoW a failure is just plain stupid. My favorite part is the people like you who call is the worse MMO in history probably played it for years before quitting.

 

WoW changed MMO's for the better despite what 99% of the people on these forums say otherwise.

 

WoW was a good game based on their PVE and their social networking, but as for PvP i don't care it was a failure the only time where it was remotely fun to pvp in wow was in vanilla when there was a sport in getting ranks, but it died out as fast as it did here so no WoW's pvp was **** there said and done

[Fearo]

There is nothing wrong with borrowing successful mechanics from WoW or any other game. Which has been done in SWTOR in spades.

 

We all know that WoW is past it's prime. That does not suddenly invalidate every aspect of the game.

 

Till you've actually tried another MMO you should just shut up you've clearly never tried any other game so why do you bother speaking, WoW lacked continuity in EVERY aspect of it's pvp and it was plain stupid fotm based repeatable battles as we are suffering from now in swtor , so keep your scrub mouth closed if you aint got nothing constructive to add

Edited January 29, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Unrealzero]

Stop living in the past.

[Krabcakes]

Till you've actually tried another MMO you should just shut up you've clearly never tried any other game so why do you bother speaking, WoW lacked continuity in EVERY aspect of it's pvp and it was plain stupid fotm based repeatable battles as we are suffering from now in swtor , so keep your scrub mouth closed if you aint got nothing constructive to add

 

 

So mad bro attacks aside, basically you don't like instanced pvp and your opinion is the only one that matters.

 

Got it.

[Fearo]

So mad bro attacks aside, basically you don't like instanced pvp and your opinion is the only one that matters.

 

Got it.

 

Again with the stupid statement, Instanced PvP IS infact the type of pvp considered to be the worst by the VAST majority of the pvp gamers, and you yourself being a scrub, wouldn't know about the award that DAoC pulled in from tentonhammer in 2011 , which was best pvp game of all times, and yet you still speak l2fp THEN Come back and appologise to what is obviously a better player than yourself

[Fearo]

Stop living in the past.

 

WISE COMMENT , Except wait a minute isn't that EXACTLY what we're doing atm by copying WoWs stupid pvp content? we're using a failed pvp system that sucks big time,instead of thinking outside the box and creating something new ... YOU good sir are living in the past and refuse to learn from what was obviously the biggest fail pvp of ALL times, WoW has STILL never won players votes for best pvp it loses to older games because it is fail

[SeloDaoC]

There is nothing wrong with borrowing successful mechanics from WoW or any other game. Which has been done in SWTOR in spades.

 

We all know that WoW is past it's prime. That does not suddenly invalidate every aspect of the game.

 

More players doesnt mean its the best game, thats a very bad logic.

 

% based of people playing and voting here for their game, WoW gets extremly low on the scale. Right from the beginning people said they tried to copy DaoC battlegrounds, heck they even had the same name, but completly missed everything that made DaoC great.

 

For the same reason you have, developers see "they have alot of players, they must have the best of everything" developers blindly follow that and rather copy stuf from wow then the games the community actually see like far superior pvp games.

 

Get players that have played mmos since before wow, around UO time, players that have played most mmos since then, including wow, and ask them questions about which aspect they think are best and should be implemented in new mmos, then build a mmo around that. People that have WoW as their first mmo are far to inexperianced gamers and are very new to the mmo genre.

Edited January 29, 2012 by SeloDaoC

[Vesperr]

3 sided battles rox. Being playing Wrath of Heroes and all I can say that its ultra fun and awesome. 2 sides are izi modo for developers but no fun for players.

[Torleen]

What are the 3 main lessons from DAoC?

 

1. Three factions. Always three factions. Not two, but three. Vital.
    
    
   
2. Caps on every single stat. Ability to cap all stats through crafted gear or raid gear. Your choice.
    
    
   
3. Meaningful objectives in a large world zone that people care about. Relics mattered. Access to Darkness Falls mattered. Bonus money/xp earned in the frontier mattered.
   

 

And yet somehow, every single MMO since DAoC (including Warhammer) fails to incorporate any of the above three things.

 

Amazing.

 

Preach it brother.

[lazerpewbang]

12 million players = worst mmo ever...........wat wat wat!!!!

 

^ NOOBS will be NOOB WOW=3mill US players and dropping NO not 12mill you cant count all the GOLD farmers p lol

[Pwnzie]

WoW transformed a genre that was about playing together and simply having fun with lots of other people, playing for the fun of playing and fame perhaps, to an endless grind for the next tier of gear... WoWers are all farmers, each and every one of them, it's either that or become worthless very fast. If you think that kind of grind is fun, suit yourself.

[GameNirvana]

WoW Pvp is just a grindfest that is ultimately extremely boring when you're finished.

 

DAoC was fun and still is fun.

 

Let the grinders have their grind with PvE. Get the grind outta PvP. Put the fun into PvP.

 

Take the best from DAoC.

 

I approve the OP.

[Jaku]

I would love for people who call WoW a grind to play Aion.

 

[ArmoredJuneBug]

No.

 

Players from extreme niche games using their limited experience to bash design choices of popular games is really, really tiresome.

 

WoW wasn't, and isn't, perfect.

 

That said the assumptions about how the DAoC, or indeed WAR, PvP playstyle would be even remotely interesting to the playerbase of a game that hopes to be popular are ludicrous.

[Cebby]

12 million players = worst mmo ever...........wat wat wat!!!!

 

12 million players is a bit of a stretch.. some countries charge by the hour for internets.

 

Number is scewed.

[mrbiggggy]

seriously wow's pvp is ****

 

yeah yeah they balance all the classes nice but wow pvp is the most linear lobby game **** i have ever played

 

swtor's pvp is the worst attempt at pvp in a while

 

but DAOC had the best pvp ever ****in small mannin in the frontiers with my pals was hella fun even tho we always got rolled by like ****in rr12s

[Tjungo]

More players doesnt mean its the best game, thats a very bad logic.

 

It would have been "a very bad logic" if that was what he said, alas it was not. All you're doing is making a straw man, a classic fallacy.

 

I'm frankly not very impressed with the argument being presented here, it's basicly "I don't like WoW and me and some other fanboys realy like DAoC, so SWTOR should be made to cater to my preferences". That is hardly very convincing.

 

The fact that the whole thing is so vague doesn't help either. PvP should have "meaning", it shouldn't "feel grindy", it should be "good". Then it's buttered in arrogant elitism on how people who enjoyed WoW shouldn't have a say.

 

While it's amusing, it would be nice if you got it straight on what facts are and what constitutes logic then perhaps you could make a proper suggestion and not just a lame flamethread.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Tjungo

[Fluffyness]

I've never played DAoC, but have heard good things so I won't even comment on that.

 

My point is: Why does it always have to be copying? Why not just take the system they have now albeit broken. And use a little ol' logic to fix what's wrong?

 

Players complain about re-playing the same 3 warzones? Make more or make changes to the ones that exist. At the same time players need to know that **** is expensive. Releasing new content isn't something they can just poop out, unless they just slap together bsp and re-use existing models/textues with new level design. If they did that people would just complain they're lazy.

 

Focus on bringing up ways they can change what already exists, mostly because that's the best we'll get from them. Do it in an organized fashion and create monster threads that demand mod/dev attention.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=247199

 

I put this together, it's about Ilum specifically. Because I think Ilum is the weakest part of this game period. If you agree post it, if you don't agree post your own input and we'll eventually find common ground and get that monster thread we need to change things.

[mutee]

Yeah why would they want to copy the most successful paid MMO...

 

This isn't a PvP game

[FuzzNasty]

I would cry tears of joy if BW started copying DAoC. And I know at least two friends who would love the game as well.

 

DAoC was friggin awesome and deserves to be the industry standard more than some other games.

 

DAoC's PvP was awesome because of the freedom. You could go out and hunt K/D ratio for kicks, or you could do small objective-based RvR in keep-taking. Or you could go huge and capture giant territories that lead into stat bonuses.

 

The PvP mechanics was something that also made DAoC fun. Classes were very strong specialists or medium strength generalists (Skalds, yeah boi!). If you were a caster or tank or healer you worked together for the best outcome because it was necessary.

 

Another thing DAoC did right was stealth. In SWTOR stealth has no purpose other than to get the drop on players and this causes a knee jerk reaction against it by people who get owned by it. DAoC made stealth matter in objective-based PvP like in Keep-taking. Their stealth was integral to their role in objective AND kill based PvP.

Edited January 29, 2012 by FuzzNasty

[Grometsc]

Clearly an element that thinks DAOC was the best game ever. What did that game top out at, 300k subscribers? Warhammer was a great concept and terrible implementation, horrible game.

 

Wow brought the genre out of the obscure world of fat guys playing 24x7 in their mom's basement and into the mainstream of gaming. In fact I am pretty sure after trying several mmos that blizzard is the only company that can make a decent combat engine for this type of game.

j

So the argument is that swtor should copy a 12 year old game played by a small group of rabid fans and not the most successful game in the genre by a landslide.....

 

I bet you are also the type of people that think you should have heavy penalties for dying and other players should be able to loot your gear. This type of player doesn't want to compete, they want to grief. I hope you get your dream game so every new mmo we don't have to hear how good some ancient piece of **** game nobody played was lol.

 

Not really...What you FAIL to think about is how many people played online games during the 01-04 days? That was the glory days as I call it....300k at peak was great for the amount of people actually playing online games back then. Playing a MMO or even online is very mainstream, it was not the cause during DAOC age.

 

If they would update the ui and game engine..I would go back in a heartbeat. I've always wanted a daoc 2...and I still play at times when I'm looking for some good pvp, though I mainly stay in the lower bgs these days . They are still active, and the action is usually non-stop (dont have to run distance to find it)

[Proppa]

The trouble was, prior to WAR and DAOC being Mythic's only real money maker alot of the original staff had left. Not sure if anyone remembers Sanya, the community support lady? She is working on http://www.dominusthegame.com/game/faq/ and apparently plans to bring DAOC's PvP into a new age.

 

There are other dev's who were the main designers into PvP have probably parted ways, now I would imagine that most of Mythic are just tweakers so to speak.

 

So whilst Mythic and DAOC were great, I don't think that the original creater's of daoc still work for EA/Mythic etc.

 

But yes, PvP DAOC win's hands down. But not just the PvP, the Character Progression being the main focus and there not being any need to do the gear grinding (well, for about 6 months after TOA there was a gear grind), but in recent years they realised people aren't interested in that so the main Focus is turning into PvP / Player Progression, Realm Ranks / Skills etc.

 

SWTOR's system, I'm bored of after just 1 month~ of playing and I've cancelled my sub. The focus on the gear is something I really don't understand. There are so many thigns which could be improved.

[Krabcakes]

More players doesnt mean its the best game, thats a very bad logic.

 

 

It's a good thing I didn't say anything remotely like that then.

 

 

Again with the stupid statement, Instanced PvP IS infact the type of pvp considered to be the worst by the VAST majority of the pvp gamers, and you yourself being a scrub, wouldn't know about the award that DAoC pulled in from tentonhammer in 2011 , which was best pvp game of all times, and yet you still speak l2fp THEN Come back and appologise to what is obviously a better player than yourself

 

Ad hominem attacks. Claiming to speak for the majority. Trolling.

 

 

Ignored.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Krabcakes