Healing: Are Spraypainting Probes Enough?

[Sprigum]

I can't ever justify spending a 3 second channel to regenerate 500 health on a 15000 health target. I'd usually rather be shooting the boss/enemy healer.

Asking me to talent it (4 points) to give it a higher crit chance (max 850ish now, woot) and 2 energy which I don't need because I manage my energy responsibly is ridiculous.

 

In Hardmode PvE content and higher you absolutely must use it, if you aren't you're wasting everyone's time.

[Maivi]

try out a 24/0/17 spec for pvp. focus crit/surge

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401rffMzh0RzZZGbrkM0b.1

 

Something along those lines. If the last talent I pick up in the last tree is worded properly which upon testing would make it seem it is. Since My periodic crit should be somewhere near 50% and usualy 3 to 4 of the 7 ticks crits for me it makes probes alot more useful

 

probes really arent that bad it's all about a priority system although I do wish they generated TA on crits and not randomly.

 

80% and above 1 probe 60to70% 2 probes and an instant heal when it ta procs

 

Anything lower then that I start casting injection unless they are 30% and I have a ta already then I spam them and hope for some lucky crits in a row to get them to a safe range to cast if dmg is low incoming to them ill hit them once probe hit them again probe them spam then cast.

 

Also I don't really need to be a slave to DS with 10 free energy every 20sec and anytime you cast a heal on someone that is 50% or lower immediatly throw an instant after this will keep your energy rates higher I have found because between the gcd and the next cast energy with stim boost up tends to keep your energy pretty high.

 

My only wish would be that infusion not have a TA requirment it really doesn't heal for enough to warrent using it even with it's .5 sec shorter cd along with the fact that is sucks up energy really makes it not something I use ever. If someone really needs a fast heal and I already have ta I'm gonna instant them because chances are unless they are in my vent server they will LoS me anyways and them seeing a heal come in has actualy made some stop running turn back and fight and stay in my los to get a casted heal/hots placed on them.

 

The spec takes some getting used to and you only use 3 heals but I like it and it works for me in pvp in and out of preformeds. Just left a huttball with over 300k healing which was top for the wz and enough attacking medals from my two dots that I scored decently all w/o dieing. Which is something since people on the imp side know I'm a healer so they usualy gun for me but some well placed stealths and then repositioning to then start healing again def netted me some notice from a few players on my team that I got several mvp votes aswell.

[Kayserzose]

First off: Really great thread!

 

 

What really surprised me with the Operative/Scoundrel healing spells was the cost of the Kolto Probe. Sorry for the WoW reference, but in WoW all the HoTs where the cheapest spells. You could HoT everyone as much as you wanted without running out of mana. I know the regen is not the same between the game. I'm just saying for being a very weak HoT it's crazy expensive. Would Kolto Probe/Slow MEd-Pack really be OP if the cost would be cut in half? Doubt it.

 

And if something was done to the survivability of healing Operatives/Scoundrels I would jump for joy. Because now I feel like a naked guy running around with band-aid's in Warzones.

[Sumpfheini]

I am Medic OP, we have hardmode Ops clear and run Nightmare and I am almost Battlemaster with rank 59.

 

To make it perfectly clear: Healing Operatives seriously lack viability in both aspects of the game.

 

- Our Hots are pointless, they tick slowly, not affected by alacrity, very bad HPS and bad Heal per Energy.

- Our energy system only has disadvantages, damage tends to be spiky in PvE and in PvP -> proactive healing does not work and we run in serious energy problems if we need to heal hard for a while.

- More a PvP Issue: Our surviability is pretty bad, no mobility to escape, weak shield, and heal immunity after vanish

- Our AoE heal is very bad. It is not that bad in certain PvP scenarios, but for PvE it's simply not worth it most of the time.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Sumpfheini

[Karel_]

In PVE OP healing is hard. Im healing with a socr. and he heals way better then I do. He can spend higher heals and longer. I just spamm 5/6 heals and im stuck with the regen.

[Amiable]

I've gotten up to about 400 expertise and rank 30 (which I know is low) on my healing op and it has gone from "utterly terrible" to "somewhat bearable." I find that speccing into concealment to get the move speed buff increases my survivability substantially (drop aclarity, you will lose .1 seconds on the casting time of your big heal, but since that is literally the only ability you have with a cast time (save some situational use of snipe) aclarity is not that important).

 

Still, I use literally 2 to 3 dozen abilities regularly between offensive and defensive abilities and escape cooldowns. I still have a terrible time if I am focused by a single DPS and concealment operatives destroy me. Having said all that there have been times where the class is amazing, but you need good situational awareness and have to use terrain to your advantage. Running around corners to heal up to full is the norm (you can literally reset a fight if you get a 6 second window). Use of the random air jumpers in huttball can also take a lot of heat off.

 

Even with all that I am lucky to break 300k in a warzone non-stop healing, where good sorcs will put up 500-600k numbers.

 

 

For folks who berate diagnostic scan: yes it is a terrible heal, but if you are stuck in combat and have low energy it is a very effective way to get some energy back to put you in a better regen footing if you have a few seconds to spare (why does aclarity not speed up hot ticks, why!?!?!?). You should also be pre hotting and using the first TA ticks to get your bolster regen up. Always have stim boost up, always!!! It makes a real difference in healing output.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Amiable

[Dronp]

try out a 24/0/17 spec for pvp. focus crit/surge

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401rffMzh0RzZZGbrkM0b.1

 

Something along those lines. If the last talent I pick up in the last tree is worded properly which upon testing would make it seem it is. Since My periodic crit should be somewhere near 50% and usualy 3 to 4 of the 7 ticks crits for me it makes probes alot more useful

 

probes really arent that bad it's all about a priority system although I do wish they generated TA on crits and not randomly.

 

80% and above 1 probe 60to70% 2 probes and an instant heal when it ta procs

 

Anything lower then that I start casting injection unless they are 30% and I have a ta already then I spam them and hope for some lucky crits in a row to get them to a safe range to cast if dmg is low incoming to them ill hit them once probe hit them again probe them spam then cast.

 

Also I don't really need to be a slave to DS with 10 free energy every 20sec and anytime you cast a heal on someone that is 50% or lower immediatly throw an instant after this will keep your energy rates higher I have found because between the gcd and the next cast energy with stim boost up tends to keep your energy pretty high.

 

My only wish would be that infusion not have a TA requirment it really doesn't heal for enough to warrent using it even with it's .5 sec shorter cd along with the fact that is sucks up energy really makes it not something I use ever. If someone really needs a fast heal and I already have ta I'm gonna instant them because chances are unless they are in my vent server they will LoS me anyways and them seeing a heal come in has actualy made some stop running turn back and fight and stay in my los to get a casted heal/hots placed on them.

 

The spec takes some getting used to and you only use 3 heals but I like it and it works for me in pvp in and out of preformeds. Just left a huttball with over 300k healing which was top for the wz and enough attacking medals from my two dots that I scored decently all w/o dieing. Which is something since people on the imp side know I'm a healer so they usualy gun for me but some well placed stealths and then repositioning to then start healing again def netted me some notice from a few players on my team that I got several mvp votes aswell.

 

Yea this seems to be the go to spec for pvp right now. Especially after the nerf its all I'm gonna use. Purely heal specced OPs are too inferior right now to other healers to really be worth using. You might as well spec hybrid and put up huge numbers and get your medals. I've had plenty of games using the spec with like 150k+ damage and 300k+ healing.

 

Bioware should change the class description to say "just roll a sage if you want to heal".

[Valthusar]

Let me preface this by saying I'm a smuggler, sorry if I use any terminology that's on our side.

 

So, I was thinking about this mostly PvE related honestly, but I think it's somewhat applicable in PvP. What if in addition to granting 1 energy regen, diagnostic scan also put gave you a 10s buff that put you in the high energy regen bracket? If already in that bracket, it just grants you 1 energy per crit (but still gave you the buff, so if you dipped below while it was active, no change).

 

Problems:

-Adds basically a third resource management tool in addition to energy and Upper Hand/Pugnacity

-Problem imbalanced, but maybe it'd be if it was in the second energy bracket. My argument to this is Sorc energy regen isn't bracketed, but of course our top tier energy regen is much faster.

-Diagnostic scan still feels terrible and clunky in PvP

 

I just feel like Diagnostic Scan isn't really an energy regen tool so much as it's a "screw it, might as well I guess." Diagnostic Scan has never been a make or break healing tool for me in PvE or PvP; we either did it or didn't, and diagnostic scan's energy regen never played a part in success (and arguably did play a part in some failures).

[Absalon]

I don't use diagnostic scan, though maybe I will as I get into hard modes. I don't like that it's channeled. If they changed it to a HoT, or increased the healing, I would use it more.

[Eeuul_Mithraa]

What I would honestly like to see for us healing Ops, is something along the lines of a Warrior Priest in Warhammer Online. Being able to heal targets in a radius of our attacks would make the class so much more efficient IMO, but would certainly put us in harm's way a lot (not like we aren't already there). Maybe make diagnostic scan something of a melee attack, where it heals multiple targets around you. Furthermore, what's really good with our shield? I mean really? If it can't be used to shield other players, for all that is holy, let the shield do something other than mitigate a whole 600 damage. How about, if the shield is dropped before its full duration, have it heal us for x amount. Give us SOMETHING.

 

Just trying to be constructive.

 

All-in-all, I agree with the OP, we do need a bit of love. I love my Op healer, and I would never re-roll to play another healer. It takes a great attention span and quick thinking to play this class as a healer, and I feel rewarded in being able to do so efficiently. I just think we could get shown a little love.

 

Especially since Concealment is getting the hammerfist.

[saethone]

I recently respected from pure healer to lethality/medicine hybrid too. I only got to play one pug match before I had to log but it seemed much more viable. I only joined in the last couple minutes of a losing alderaan and had 60k healing and damage.

 

my spec is similar to the one you linked, except I moved the points from Medical Therapy to Lethal Purpose

[MagusZ]

It's really bad when you wish you had an Final Fantasy style Healing Rod as a weapon of choice. "Heaing Rod" Shiv -> SA -> Shiv -> SA ...

 

It make us an unique healer.

[Spatzimaus]

I agree about Op healing, but the thing is, there's a LOT they could do to make things better. The problem, to me, is that while the basic design might be sound, the numbers involved are just off. Here are a few suggestions that I think would really improve things:

 

1> You know how the "Patient Studies" talent gives you energy whenever Diagnostic Scan crits? Make it (or some other talent) do the same for Kolto Probe as well. That is, if you're running 2 stacks on a tank, and he's getting hit, you'd be getting a small but steady infusion of energy back over the course of the 15s. So even if it's not giving as much healing over its 15s as other class' instacast heals do, it'd be basically resource-neutral when cast on someone taking damage. Obviously, this'd greatly help with energy management as well.

 

2> Diagnostic Scan should give its target a temporary buff that increases the amount of healing he receives from his NEXT heal by, say, +25% (doubled if that next heal is Surgical Probe). It fits the name, but more importantly it gives you a choice: use it before your big heal to get even more effect, but take more time, or skip the scan and throw the heal directly. And in a group, it'd mean that your scan could help the heal someone else casts, which'd be nice for operations or world bosses.

 

3> Incisive Action reduces the cast time of Kolto Injection by 0.5s (2.5 -> 2.0) if you take two ranks of it. Make it also reduce the cast time of Kolto Infusion by the same amount (1.5 -> 1.0); the TA cost is already bad enough. (Other options include making it entirely uninterruptible, barring death.)

 

So if they made a few minor tweaks like this, could it be possible to stake out a viable niche for Operative healers without redesigning the entire system from scratch?

[Vallowen]

 

p.s. Roll either of the other two classes if you want to PvP.

 

seems to be the general conclusion on this board

 

there has to be a reason 90% of the population is merc/sorc right?

[Sumpfheini]

What I would honestly like to see for us healing Ops, is something along the lines of a Warrior Priest in Warhammer Online. Being able to heal targets in a radius of our attacks would make the class so much more efficient ...

 

Would be interesting yes, however I want to keep the influence of Mythic "developers" as small as possible, they just lack the intelligence for proper balance design although their ideas were great.

 

I just hope the the balancing cycles start soon since we already run NM with 3 sorcs and think about replacing Operative heal with a fourth one or Merc healer.

[Sprigum]

Would be interesting yes, however I want to keep the influence of Mythic "developers" as small as possible, they just lack the intelligence for proper balance design although their ideas were great.

 

I just hope the the balancing cycles start soon since we already run NM with 3 sorcs and think about replacing Operative heal with a fourth one or Merc healer.

 

If they get combat logs out before we get some changes this type of thing will only spiral out of control.

[Richelieux]

@OP:

 

I have to agree that our HOT(s) need some buffing.

 

But I have to disagree on your original post about the HOT not good in the middle of PVP combat.

 

First of all: you only have to use 2 probes in the beginning. In order to refresh the counter its just 1 probe.

 

Second point: Skilled Probe on multiple friends gives you lots and lots of free TA that you in turn can use in turn for frequent instant surgical casts.

 

Third point: If you stand still or cover and cast-heal someone, the enemies instantly recognize you as a healer and interrupt / focus on you. When you move around and use HOT+Surgical you get far less attention.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Richelieux

[superfeds]

I agree with the overall consensus that there is just something off with our healing spec. Ive had no problems healing HM encounters, and normal OPs. This isnt exactly a tough metric, but I havent felt using an operative healer as limited us.

 

However I just think the other 2 healers fulfill the role better in PvP and PvE

 

Disagnostic Scan needs to be rethought. I understand its intention, but there is almost no difference between using it and channeling for 3 seconds, or just not casting for 3 seconds. It should gain an instant heal component from the talent points, and refresh koltoprobe to full duration.

 

The talent that removes the 100% healing received/given after using cloaking screen should be moved to the medicine talent in place of the sprint talent. The sprint talent makes more sense for concealment. The healing talent makes more sense for medicine.

 

A 2nd castable healing would fill a big void. However, it could be worked around if we had a talent that prevented interrupts while casting kolto injection. Possibly tied to evasion or shield probe.

 

 

Lastly our biggest weakness is in situations in which there is intense AoE dmg happening fast. We dont have a way to catchup after AoE dmg fast, or mitigate it while its happening. This leads us to energy starved situations. Either make the Sniper AoE Shield talent baseline between both sniper and operative, or adding a cooldown that would overcharge our healing abilities for a short time, so we could situationally catch up during massive AoE dmg.

Edited January 24, 2012 by superfeds

[Pagy]

changes I would make to ops:

 

have shield prob castabe on targets, this would be a very high tier skill

 

diagnostic scan is useless as is... the only fights you have time to cast it in are fights you don't need energy anyways. this should be instant cast, or buffed significantly. on a hard mode fight, your target will die in the time it would take to cast this, it's ridiculous.

 

RN should be expanded to a 20 - 30 range... in 4 man hm instances, it only hits tank, and one more if you run with another melee dps... 30 energy is way too much to spend on one target. maybe have it spread to other targets every tick if they come in range later?

 

there is no way to talk me out of taking combat stims over RN right now

Edited January 24, 2012 by Pagy

[Sprigum]

changes I would make to ops:

 

have shield prob castabe on targets, this would be a very high tier skill

 

diagnostic scan is useless as is... the only fights you have time to cast it in are fights you don't need energy anyways. this should be instant cast, or buffed significantly. on a hard mode fight, your target will die in the time it would take to cast this, it's ridiculous.

 

RN should be expanded to a 20 - 30 range... in 4 man hm instances, it only hits tank, and one more if you run with another melee dps... 30 energy is way too much to spend on one target. maybe have it spread to other targets every tick if they come in range later?

 

there is no way to talk me out of taking combat stims over RN right now

 

I've posted a few times and I've really been trying to get a feel for what this class needs that wouldn't destroy the flavor.

 

How people successfully navigate HM/Nightmare EV without RN I have no idea, especially fights like the 1st guy in EV, Soa, and even to a lesser extent Gharj I find this ability hugely useful.

 

In PvP its an instant HoT, and a good AoE HoT for group fights.

 

I do agree the sorc heal is FAR FAR FAR better, especially in PvE and in PvP they just don't even need the AoE heal 99% of the time.

 

What is boils down to is that Sorcs/Sages can just dominate anywhere. They have the best EVERYTHING, which is just ridiculous.

 

It wouldn't even be a problem that they had a bit of everything if we had ANYTHING that was better. Really we don't have anything comparable to what they have.

 

Outside of Kolto Injection and Surgical Probe there is really nothing else for us.

 

- Kolto Probe is a weak heal for 30 energy (AND TWO GCDS!), even when placed over 18 seconds. It needs to do double (or more) the amount of healing to be effectual, and it should tick instantly on placement.

 

I don't think anyone is going to complain about Kolto Probe ticks when people are getting shielded left and right.

 

Kolto probe should cost 20 energy and stack ONCE. That's right guys, once.

 

But isn't that Overpowered? Umm, have you seen a sorc's shield? Yeah. I think this is just fine balance wise.

 

Stacking a HOT twice is just ridiculous, more so with this UI we've been given. I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of spending half of each operation trying to juggle around Kolto Probes between Stim boost, Tactical Advantage and Recuperative Nanotech timers.

 

Additionally, Kolto Probes should take over diagnostic scan's energy regeneration talents, and refund 2 energy per crit. Additionally they should tick more quickly with alacrity, without changing their duration.

 

- This means that alacrity will increase our energy regeneration, but not add to the cost by reducing the timer on the HOT itself. It's a win-win.

 

Diagnostic scan shall be wiped from our skill set. It's a bad ability, it's boring, it's lackluster in every possible way, and in no way shape or form will it ever be a mainstay of our ability set.

 

Kolto Infusion (and here's where it gets good) now no longer requires TA to use, and is now on a 10 second CD. It retains it's current heal values, and it's current energy cost, but now it refreshes the duration of Kolto Probe on the Target.

 

- That's right, now you no longer have to let those Kolto Probes fall off during High tank DMG scenarios. Typically I have issues when the tank needs constant heals, but my HoT are about to fall off. Generally it's much more advantageous to let them go and add them back once the DMG is manageable, but this is less than ideal. We're effectively locked out of one of our primary heals because of poor mechanics.

 

* The 10 second CD ensures that it isn't used to keep several people stacked indefinitely. It makes it suitable for single target PvP healing and Tank healing all at the same time.

 

Recuperative Nanotech isn't as bad as everyone seems to think, but it definitely needs something. I think the energy cost is fine, but the healing strength is lackluster and so is the range. I'd rather not have it be a carbon copy of the Sorc heal or the BH heal either, so let's just tweak it a bit and enhance.

 

- The main issue for me is the fact that its range is very short, and that it only effects 4 people. We can't have both, that would be too much. but I think giving it a larger range as a benefit would be nice, and allowing it to "smart" heal the lower HP targets.

 

So, let's increase the overall range of Recuperative Nano-tech to 25 yards, but now it requires a 1.5 second cast (fair is fair). Increase the overall healing by ~20% and allow it to hit the 4 lowest HP players in range, or the only 4 players in range. Energy cost remains same.

 

Surgical probe isn't bad as it stands now, but I think the 30% HP gimmick is just that, a gimmick.

 

Continue to allow it to require TA as it'll now be the only skill that uses it. Give Surgical Probe a 5 second CD, and increase the healing by 25% or more as needed.

 

- Possibly then allow the talent that makes it re-grant TA under 30% work differently. Instead allow it to grant 5 energy per surgical probe crit (can't be spammed with CD) and benefits us and scales as we level.

 

Kolto Injection remains the same.

 

I feel like these things would make us more effective ( and less maddening to play) in both PvE and PvP. We'll probably be casting ALL of our spells instead of just KI and Surgical Probe for most of you, and at the same time maintaining a lot of our mobility.

 

Increase the baseline on Surgical Probe gives us a nice quick, and powerful reactionary heal for both cases and also is just a lot more interesting than spamming one button over and over again. If you ever played a paladin consider this a holy shock.

 

Kolto Infusion needs to synergize with something and Kolto Probe makes a lot of sense. Maybe an 8 sec CD would be more appropriate.

 

Kolto Probes shouldn't have to be stacked and they should be our "diagnostic scan" in terms of energy recuperation. It's like our Signature Ability, and should do a more proportionate amount of healing. It's a good choice for PvP energy recovery as it's not interruptable.

 

RN just needs something unique to it. It's just so meh atm a lot of people skip over it. If made it "smart" and increased the healing and range a bit it'd be a totally amazing ability. To be honest all 31 point abilities should be AMAZING. not just "ehhh"

[Xenthum]

You really, really want to overpower Operative healers. The suggested changes almost godmode us.

[Sprigum]

You really, really want to overpower Operative healers. The suggested changes almost godmode us.

 

The only thing that will be healing for "more" is Surgical probe and RN (which people don't even spec for half the time!)

 

- Surgical Probe (now has a 5 second CD) Currently you can spam this with TA.

 

- RN would actually be useful.

 

- Kolto probe will heal for the same amount it heals now, but with only one stack and subsequently cost a bit more energy. It now allows us to regen energy. Probably do 1 energy per crit though.

 

**Until they fix this UI having a stacking HOT is more of a PITA than anything else, especially as marginally useful as ours is already**

 

- Kolto Injection remains the same.

 

- Kolto Infusion has a 8-10 Second CD and now does something useful instead of nothing at all.

 

What is in there that makes us overpowered? I was worried when I wrote it that it actually wouldn't be powerful enough. I worry that putting a CD on surgical probe and taking away the 30% auto-TA feature in PvP would be a huge loss for us.

 

It's okay for our class it want to use more than 2 abilities.

 

We're still using energy so using stuff too fast will still make us flat line, maybe more so than before.

 

Where is the overpoweredness? Have you seen what sorcs can do?

Edited January 27, 2012 by Sprigum