Sentinels-->Crit or Power?

[Boulvie]

Hey all. Kinda a meta-game question here. I'm a long time MMO player, but I've never been the type who has all sorts of crazy calculations like some do. I usually kinda eye-ball test it.

 

That being said, i'm nearly 40th lvl as I post this. When I started (About 1-20th) I went big for crit. As I played I also became aware of power. It seemed like alot of the gear and enhancements etc etc I was getting was turning towards power, so I thought I would go with it and until now (21-39) I went big into power.

 

I now notice alot of gear for me seemingly is going back to crit. Thing is, especially at this lvl now, I can get some more Surge as well (multiplies crit damage at a higher rate). I have yet to deck myself out at 40th (I'm cybertech crafting so I can make some and using commendations from Balmorra to round it all off) for crit, but the 2 lightsabers have crit instead of power and the enhancements have power/surge. I'm sitting just under 20% crit but I feel confident that if I switched over to heavy crit I could be around 25%.

 

Has anyone found one or the other of these stats to be clearly more beneficial? I can see both sides of thought "Dual wield off hand weapon does less damage so power helps bring that up to par" or "Dual wielding off hand is never gonna do big damage like main hand so by going for crit and dual wielding you can hope for the big crit damage which will cause much more variation in damage."

 

Any opinions?

[ReithKanaka]

Tell us which tree your planning on taking. Despite people saying its all the same; you can perform or not perform.

[Boulvie]

Well right now I am combat. It SOUNDS like as I read more, lots are going Watchman. Maybe i am missing something but that tree seemed lack-luster to me (I've never tried it, I admit. Simply looking at the abilities top to bottom).

 

I am open to switching to any effective spec though. I'm not a snob who refuses to change lol

[keizen]

watchman tree is pretty good! you get a snare on your main damage ability (cauterize) and its a killer. the best part, with good amount of expertise your Merciless Slash will do a ton of damage. This is probably the best part of this tree. the downside of this tree is it consumes alot of focus and your zen ability for juyo is not as good in pvp (the heals it gives ok but not life saving).

 

Merciless slash does so much damage with you buffed with Inspiration you can do 2.5k medal on warzones (on squishy) frequently, and I dont even have alot of expertise.

 

and i personally like crits.

[Dronin]

focus ->watchman ----------------------------> combat

 

 

combat is inferior to the other two trees in both sustained and burst, focus is boring but better than watchman most agree when they give in and try it

 

crit is good up to around 30% base but then hits hard returns, surge is great up to 70-75% but then hits hard returns, after that its power all the way

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dronin

[Boulvie]

focus ->watchman ----------------------------> combat

 

 

combat is inferior to the other two trees in both sustained and burst, focus is boring but better than watchman most agree when they give in and try it

 

crit is good up to around 30% base but then hits hard returns, surge is great up to 70-75% but then hits hard returns, after that its power all the way

 

What specific about COmbat makes it inferior, or what about the other trees make them so much better? Not trolling, honestly asking. I think the artura strike needs to be increased in damage. But with blade rush and blade storm auto crit when ur in your presence...and then another talent that increases blade storms critical damage...and blade rush auto drops an artura strike and increases another one on normal hits by 30%....just seems like that combo would add up to decent burst.

[FobManX]

Watchman has the best sustained DPS. It's the preferred PVE tree as it's the best against elites and flashpoint mobs. Combat and Focus are more for PVP.

 

As far as your question goes, right now I'm going with Crit/Surge but I'm not really that well geared yet(terrible luck with drops, haven't gotten a single drop yet from a HM). I'm at about 28% crit and 25% surge(so 75% crit damage)at the moment.

[wrmrstacrdwower]

Watchman- crit for bleeds.

 

combat/focus - power

[ReithKanaka]

If you simply going to PVE you may stick with Watchmen for crit. Though PVP really anything goes, its really about what utility you get from it.

 

But no, Combat doesn't perform worse, simply takes finesse and you have to know what your doing. Anyone in these forums who argue what tree is better is fooling themselves.

 

 

Anyone with 8 years of mmorpg will simply have 8 years of biased opinion. Your best bet is to do this as a learning experience and try it yourself. And share this with the community with hard data. Not people inflated with an ego of mmorpg experience.

 

 

Sadly these forums, community, and the information on them is in its infancy. so too are a lot of people who write gibberish on these forums such as Focus---->Watchmen----------->Combat.

 

So for now, you gonna have to piece apart good information vs people who just have opinions (bad ones at that.)

Edited January 22, 2012 by ReithKanaka

[Boulvie]

If you simply going to PVE you may stick with Watchmen for crit. Though PVP really anything goes, its really about what utility you get from it.

 

But no, Combat doesn't perform worse, simply takes finesse and you have to know what your doing. Anyone in these forums who argue what tree is better is fooling themselves.

 

 

Anyone with 8 years of mmorpg will simply have 8 years of biased opinion. Your best bet is to do this as a learning experience and try it yourself. And share this with the community with hard data. Not people inflated with an ego of mmorpg experience.

 

 

Sadly these forums, community, and the information on them is in its infancy. so too are a lot of people who write gibberish on these forums such as Focus---->Watchmen----------->Combat.

 

So for now, you gonna have to piece apart good information vs people who just have opinions (bad ones at that.)

 

Had a hard time tracking this down, looks like it got moved, didn't think I had put it in the wrong area, so my apologies.

 

Someone previous also mentioned crit is better for Watchman spec. That makes complete sense to me. Crit is valuable to any spec, but especially that one because you need your crits going off from cauterize to maximize effectiveness. The one thing I will say about Watchman is, the last talent ability, Merciless slash, does seem far superior to the other 2 abilities at 40th that you get through combat and focus.

 

Still, I can't imagine combat is THAT awful, just as you said Reith. I feel like it has good combo and the abilities have a good synergy. I get blade storm for 2 focus instead of 4 and a 9s CD instead of 12 (iirc). And as long as I use it at the correct times, it auto crits. Thats just ONE part of the higher end talents in Combat.

 

I'll definitely keep working on it. It may be necessary to wait until 50th though, to fully test out separate spec lines and maybe even look into tri-specs that may give a good amount of utility.

 

I know I am new to these forums but I have seen some signed up since like '09, so I didn't know how many frequent it and how much info had been uncovered and shared with the community. I do know I have seen tons of threads complaining about Sentinel's DPS though. I will say I believe it is lacking. But perhaps not as bad as some think.

 

People should also realize (as some of you have mentioned) that PVE and PVP needs might be different. I can see Watchman scaling very well in higher end PVE content where you can apply DoTs for extended periods while using other big hit abilities. For PvP though fights tend to end quicker and so spike damage tends to be better than sustained damage. I raided alot in WoW so I am sure I will PVE but I also come from a game called Dark Age of Camelot where PvP (RvR = Realm vs. Realm) ruled and I will be doing plenty of pvp as well.

 

Anyhow, if anyone does have more info to add please don't hesitate to. We all have to work on this and learn together. Many times a class or spec is bashed early in a game and it ends up being good. People just aren't used to it's style or in PVE case, don't have a set rotation (I like to lead with zealous strike, precision slash, master strike, blade storm, strike, blade rush, strike, slash---->restart). I bet I can tighten that rotation but until I am comfortable with all the abilities and am 50, I like to mess with everything and not count stuff out.

[Sprgmr]

Honestly, getting Crit as Watchman is overkill. Out Zen forces burns to crit, and given hwo fast we build centering, we have zen up ALOT. Power always has linear returns.

Usually what I is Zen, then use my relic for the surge bonus. With full DOTs on someone, that hits like a truck.

 

Now that I think about it, stacking crit on a Sent is not the best strategy anytime. Combat has guaranteed crits on their biggest hitting ability (in Combat Trance), and Focus has guaranteed Sweep crits after either of their leaps.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Now that I think about it, stacking crit on a Sent is not the best strategy anytime. Combat has guaranteed crits on their biggest hitting ability (in Combat Trance), and Focus has guaranteed Sweep crits after either of their leaps.

 

Combat is all about BR+Ataru crits actually. Blade Storm is just one skill on a 9s cooldown.

 

I'm starting to see a trend here and why people feel Combat is underperforming...

Edited January 22, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[dcanfield]

watchman is far and away the best spec for both pvp and pve, have no idea what these others are talking about, combat and focus? rly? lol

[NJoyTheSilence]

Watchman = Healer killer/single target I melt faces spec

Focus = Mad aoe sweep damage/decent passive defense talents/good utility

Combat = Good cc? I am sure it is good, but I find the other specs better.

 

I dig both focus and watchman.

[Xumagai]

I wasn't as good at combat but I know people really like it, I've never played focus bc I was turned off by channeling from melee range bc it seems like that do that a lot. thinking about trying it tonight but I don't know if the stat priorities are any diff.

 

For me watchman is my style, and therefore my fingers play it well so I'll play it for as long as I think it's the most awesomest.

 

Oh! and that being said, the person above who said where the diminishing returns pop up was pretty much right on, so you'll get to that point on crit and surge and then try your best to stack power. Sorry I forgot what the OP was about after reading this lol.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Xumagai
BC I'm a space cadet lol.

[Deelow]

I personally did the same thing you did. I played Combat based on it's tree. If you read it like me, the tree should do more DPS. Sadly this isn't the case. I figured out Combat late, but decided to go with Watchman at 43 and I didn't go back. First thing I'll tell you, always go for the weaker mobs first- if not you'll die a lot no matter which spec you are.

 

Watchman- Crit/Surge - Why? Because I can jump into a Heroic 2+ with my sage pal and run through a group of level 50 strongs like a hot knife through butter. Power, no matter how people put it, just doesn't do what crit does for the bleed(Burn) effects. Power is used for direct damage attacks. Watchman rotation is a build-dump-build-dump rotation, meaning Building about 1/4-1/2 a bar dumping nearly all and building again. Best PVE spec IMO.

 

Combat - The poster who said power over crit is partially correct. I kept some crit, maybe the equivalent of 10% of what a Watchman has, stacked power and surge, and mastered my own rotation. If you're committed, single target a mob and work out a priority list. I find Combat is a focus buid and dump rotation, using all builders and dumping it all at once. How? I read up some specs, and respecced first of all. There are a few good ones out there, I'd go with the one I saw on these forums if you putting 3/3 into the crit talent in the focus tree. It take more skill to play Combat, and the reason I switched: I was always focus starved.

 

I was a long time WoW player who quit WoW a few years ago. I am guilty of being a min/maxer on my paladin. I used rawr very effectively and got to #1 gearscore and my old guild would say a top DPSer on the server. I was well known among people on Arygos back then.

[Psybin]

Get crit/surge till both are about 30-40%. Then go power.

 

Crit/surge do not scale linearly, after a certain point their value starts to drop off dramatically. Power does scale linearly, you can never have enough.

 

So basically, get "enough" crit, surge and accuracy then pound the rest into power. On levelling/low end gear this generally means go crit/surge.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Psybin

[-Arcane-]

 

Merciless slash does so much damage with you buffed with Inspiration you can do 2.5k medal on warzones (on squishy) frequently, and I dont even have alot of expertise.

 

and i personally like crits.

 

Stack power/surge and see 5k+ crits with MS.

 

2.5k lol you can get that with master strike aha.

 

 

back to the op:

 

Accuracy to 100% then Crit to 25%, surge to 30% then stack as much power as you can.

[Ravrohan]

Stack power/surge and see 5k+ crits with MS.

 

2.5k lol you can get that with master strike aha.

 

 

back to the op:

 

Accuracy to 100% then Crit to 25%, surge to 30% then stack as much power as you can.

 

Hmm I thought it was Crit to 30% before buffs/skills then surge to 50% I was hitting your numbers in the mid 40's on my combat sent. I'm 49 and thought I was just getting close to the recommended.

[VonGriffin]

Watch. atm have 30 crit and 86% surge multi, didnt know about the diminishing returns:mad: Edited February 1, 2012 by VonGriffin

[RamzaBehoulve]

Watch. atm have 30 crit and 86% surge multi, didnt know about the diminishing returns:mad:

 

Yeah, you can go back down to 80% crit multiplier (+30% surge so about 200-250 surge rating) and get power if you can.

 

Accuracy is completely useless in PvE and marginally useful at 105% in PvP. Personally I started getting rid of it as much as I could, but it seems lvl 50 implants and earrings are stuck with some of it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[-Arcane-]

Hmm I thought it was Crit to 30% before buffs/skills then surge to 50% I was hitting your numbers in the mid 40's on my combat sent. I'm 49 and thought I was just getting close to the recommended.

 

But how much power do you have?

 

 

Im currently at around 950 mainhand dmg and the dps is great, dot ticks for 1800 5k+ MS.

 

When I say "surge to 30%" I dont mean total surge, which should be obvious as you have base of 50%. Maybe I should say surge to 80% to avoid confusion.

[Psybin]

Accuracy is completely useless in PvE and marginally useful at 105% in PvP. Personally I started getting rid of it as much as I could, but it seems lvl 50 implants and earrings are stuck with some of it.

 

Care to explain why?

 

True enough level 50 PvE gear seems to have wayyyy too much on it, but up 100% has to be a solid dps gain.

[SteveGarbage]

Get crit/surge till both are about 30-40%. Then go power.

 

Crit/surge do not scale linearly, after a certain point their value starts to drop off dramatically. Power does scale linearly, you can never have enough.

 

So basically, get "enough" crit, surge and accuracy then pound the rest into power. On levelling/low end gear this generally means go crit/surge.

 

This is the main reason why I stack Power, since it adds linearly, meaning your first point gives you as much benefit as your 500th. With Crit and Surge, you get diminishing returns, meaning you'll have to add more stat to get additional bonus.

 

Another point people often overlook is that you get a healthy amount of crit from just stacking Strength, since it's your primary attribute.

 

For me, I focus on Power and Accuracy. You can pick up some crit mostly from your lightsaber crystals (since Artifice only offers crit or endurancee), but overall I prefer to take harder hits all the time over slightly increased chance to crit.

 

Copied from the Sentinel primer (stickied in this forum):

 

Power

 

 

Power is a flat 0.23 damage increase. If you add 1 point of power your base damage will go up by 0.23 points. It is important to note that your base damage is the damage modifier used when calculating the Critical multiplier as well as the amount of damage your normal attacks.

 

Power Scales linearly at a 0.23 rate. For each point of power you add, you gain an additional 0.23 primary damage.

 

Code:

 

Power Damage Primary

41 9.6

94 21.6

138 32.2

172 40

225 52

236 54.4

 

Critical Strike

 

 

Critical strike increases your chance to get a critical hit thus triggering your critical multiplier damage. Given a large number of attacks, you will get a critical strike this percentage of the time. This stat is affected by diminishing returns pretty heavily.

 

Critical chance Scales Logarithmically with critical. For each point of critical you add it will return less and less critical strike chance. In the following table you can see that as you increase your critical it takes more critical per 1% crit chance:

 

Code:

 

Critical Crit Chance Critical / 1% Crit

44 1.92 22.9166666667

88 3.73 23.5924932976

136 5.56 24.4604316547

184 7.26 25.3443526171

194 7.6 25.5263157895

414 13.92 29.7413793103

 

Edited February 1, 2012 by SteveGarbage

[RamzaBehoulve]

Care to explain why?

 

True enough level 50 PvE gear seems to have wayyyy too much on it, but up 100% has to be a solid dps gain.

 

According to tests done by MBH and double checked by others, it seems the only attack below the base 100% accuracy for special attacks is actually Strike. Everything else seems to be considered a special attack (at least the ones with a Focus cost).

 

Note that I didn't personally test non-focus attacks like MS and Pommel/Opportune Strike.

 

Not accounting for offhand hits. The gain from raising accuracy of offhand hits to 100% is really pitiful as far as I'm concerned.

Edited February 1, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve