Is anyone else tired of Bioware pissing on Sentinels?

[Lazenca]

So, now are we not only useless in Huttball, but we are also useless on Ilum (thanks!). So what is our role on Ilum when its zerg vs zerg? Aoe fodder?

 

We(Marauders included), are the only class without a pull or knockback, so while we have to be the victim of all sorts of uncontrolled character movement, we cannot do this to other people. Fun.

 

Our endgame pvp armor looks horrid, and even then, we share it with another class (guardians). Even Juggs and Maras have different armor.

 

Leveling up sucked, diddn't get our healing companion till the late 30s.

 

The only way we can truly fulfill our role of face metlers is if we have a pocket healer, and even then, any class can rack up high dps numbers if they have a premade.

 

Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

I'm with you Araxus. Honestly, the way Bioware has handled the Jedi classes is really pushing me to quitting already. During beta, I just wanted to play Sentinel, now I am and I think the way they're doing things are a travesty. Guardian is the only AC in Knight that you can get room in a group and Sentinel is, while doable, waaay too hard leveling solo. And I feel that for Consular, go healing Sage, or don't bother. Shadow is a waste of time since in the endgame they aren't tank enough to tank or dps well enough to dps... or so I've heard in that regard.

 

I'm not going to lie, for nearly 3 decades, I've always been more of a Jedi fan than a Star Wars fan. And this game has been very disappointing in that vein.

[Gbyrd]

Nothing like leaping into someone that was there and isn't anymore cause of spell delay. We all face it sure, but sents hurt from it alot.

[Bravedave]

Did you read and not comprehend that those are Jedi Sentinel skills at the top, and Jedi Knight skills at the bottom?

 

You have several gap closers, slows, stuns, and damage mitigation. I don't see what the problem is really.

 

Depends how you look at it really, and what spec you are playing. I am a focus sentinal.

 

2x Gap closers

2x Slows

2x Stun (Force stasis has to be channeled, Awe loses stun upon being hit)

Damage mitigation = useless in more than a one on one fight.

 

Problem isn't so much in the class, it's in the players. I'm fine in WZ

 

However, put me in Ilum and it's not going to happen, I can do upwards of 300k in Warzones. I've had 54 kills 2 deaths in one Warzone. Ilum PVP you just get constantly CC'd and spanked.

 

Our maximum range move is the leap, we have nothing else, so we have to literally get directly infront of maybe 30+ people and just hope we can kill one person before 30 people kill us.

 

Put us up against a BH and you may as well kiss your *** goodbye tbh 9 times out of 10, unless the BH is derping he's gunna kill you. Just Spam tracer missile like you have no tomorrow.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Bravedave

[All_Under_Heaven]

What DO you have?

 

.......

 

Force Exhaustion - Talented. Not all of us want to spec Focus.

Precision Slash - Talented. Not all of us want to spec Combat.

Zealous Leap - Talented. Also, you leap, they knockback.

Rebuke - Can't argue much here. Awesome ability.

Leg Slash - This is a debatable skill. It's useful, of course, but you usually don't want to put it into a PVP rotation unless necessary. It takes up a GCD spot that could be used for a vital skill.

Crippling Throw - Can't argue here, but the debuff can(and will) be dispelled.

Transcendence - Not a gap closer so much as a gap maker.

Pacify - This is difficult to use correctly outside of 1v1. Still very useful though.

Force Camoflauge - Can't argue here.

Guarded by the Force - This is the last of the last resorts. It's a literal gamble when using GBTF in PvP, since if your opponent notices, you'll simply be stunned/kited/rooted/w-e for five seconds. Then you just halved your health for your opponent.

 

Awe - Can't argue here.

Dispatch - Used it a few times, but by the time the enemy is at execution state, you're talents have probably proc'd up to the point where Merc. Slash/Bladestorm/Force Sweep will be a guaranteed kill.

Force Kick - Useful, but it doesn't lock the school, so they can literally re-cast right after.

Force Leap - As stated before, you leap, they knockback.

Force Stasis - It's damn useful for removing a threat, but the damage is poor.

Force Sweep - Our only viable AoE. If spec'd focus, it's certainly a staple, but without Focus, it's ignorable by both the Sentinel and the Opponent.

Opportune Strike - Forgot I even had this skill. I can see how it'd be useful, but it would be much easier if they just merged Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike.

Saber Ward - Can't argue here. I usually pop this with Rebuke.

Shii-Cho Form - Depends on which spec you are. Focus? Great. Combat/Watchman? Nope.

 

You certainly do make very good points about how the Sentinels have great defensive CD's, but here's the kicker.......we're not a defensive class. That alone speaks to just how imbalanced we are. The fact that we're so fragile and controllable that we need several majorly defensive CD's is not good design.

 

And Focus (our "ammo") doesn't just come out of thin air. We can only generate it with only two abilities, and a handful of talents. So of all you listed above, chances are in a fight, we'll only get to use four of the fourteen abilities that spend focus in any given PvP fight. Part of the fight will be generating focus, another part will be kited, and then stunned, and finally within melee range.

 

Also, you really didn't comprehend OP's post.

[TheRealBrave]

How are there people who still think that Sentinels/Marauders are underpowered? I just don't understand.

[DarkMayu]

Anyone else noticed that -

 

Blade storm never stuns (or if it does its for 0.5seconds)

 

Opportune Strike never works in pvp, for some reason it hightlights once you use Force Stasis but if you try and press it it doesnt work + if anyone else uses force stasis it never highlights

 

Pommel Strike once again never really works even on droids when you use disable droid it still doesn't work.

 

Sometimes when you use Valorous Call - Transcendence doesn't work.

 

Is this just me or do others have this problem too?

[Namesake]

I'll admit I didn't read this entire thread, but the OP has a point.

 

While I find myself being incredibly useful in huttball most of the time, the lack of a player displacement move is rather annoying.

 

This isn't that much of an issue when you're the only Sentinel or one of two, but when there's half the team that are sentinels it becomes a problem. And you might say "Then don't pvp with so many other sentinels" Well sure, I'd love to. Too bad we don't have much say on who we pvp with, even with a premade.

 

I love playing my sentinel. I put up realistic damage of around 200k-300k each round in champion gear. I am focus spec and love doing my burst damage rotation. But, when it comes to huttball, it becomes particularly annoying when you leap to someone, only to be pushed off the edge, then picked off. I don't even care what kind of displacement move we would get. Or even if we had a way to instant cooldown force leap once every minute or so.

 

But in a game where CC is the most important part of the game, being one of the only classes without one is rough. ESPECIALLY since we're melee.

 

A push with a minute CD would be amazing, and in my humble opinion, not unbalancing. It doesn't give us a particular advantage seeing how we are short range dps, and it would make the class usable on both sides of the ball in huttball. Not just offense.

[McVade]

How are there people who still think that Sentinels/Marauders are underpowered? I just don't understand.

 

The issue is Sentinels bring the least useful kind of damage (melee) with the worst utility of any damage dealing class. No hard CCs that don't also stun yourself. No knock backs. No heals, so can't duck behind a corner and patch up. No guard to help healers. Our damage requires significant build up while Assassins and Scoundrels get to front-load it. Far more useful in PvP.

 

You're rarely going to be top damage. It happens, but it's infinitely easier to top damage with any other class (including Scoundrel/Assassin). You're rarely going to get above 5-6 medals.

 

I'm not saying we're terrible, but I certainly see how people can think we're underpowered. IMHO, we aren't underpowered, but we're way too hard to play effectively compared to any other class, and I think Bioware's even acknowledged this.

Edited January 26, 2012 by McVade

[TheRealBrave]

The issue is Sentinels bring the least useful kind of damage (melee) with the worst utility of any damage dealing class. No hard CCs that don't also stun yourself. No knock backs. No heals, so can't duck behind a corner. No guard to help healers. Our damage requires significant build up while Assassins and Scoundrels get to front-load it. Far more useful in PvP.

 

You're rarely going to be top damage. It happens, but it's infinitely easier to top damage with any other class (including Scoundrel/Assassin). You're rarely going to get above 5-6 medals.

 

I'm not saying we're terrible, but I certainly see how people can think we're underpowered. IMHO, we aren't underpowered, but we're way too hard to play effectively compared to any other class.

 

Rarely above 5-6 medals? LMFAO you should average 8 medals, bad utility? 20% MS, Zen group heals as Watchman and Perma Group wide speed buff as Focus.

 

Easily obtain 8 medals a round:

 

Killing Blow Medal

1k Defender Medal

Assassin Medal

2.5k Hit Medal

75k Damage Dealt Medal

3k Defender Medal

300k Damage Dealt Medal

10 Kills Medal

25 Kills Medal

5k Hit Medal (admit you have to get lucky for this one with adrenal/cd popping on a squishy as Focus)

75k Healing (have to be Watchman for this, easy to obtain)

 

Most of those are easy to obtain, no reason to not average 8 medals a full game.

[McVade]

Rarely above 5-6 medals? LMFAO you should average 8 medals, bad utility? 20% MS Dispelled, Zen group heals as Watchman At the cost of Transcendence for 6% total life over about 6 seconds. No one's going to be thanking you. and Perma Group wide speed buff as Focus. Extremely unpredictable. You can only count on yourself to get this

 

Easily obtain 8 medals a round:

 

Killing Blow Medal Yes

1k Defender Medal Conditional on Warzone

Assassin Medal Bad/Anti-Objective play required

2.5k Hit Medal Yes

75k Damage Dealt Medal Yes

3k Defender Medal Not unless you're playing Aldaraan and never leave a node

300k Damage Dealt Medal Complete E-Peen stroking to say "easy." Possible, but very rare game. Have done it once.

10 Kills Medal Yes

25 Kills MedalYes

5k Hit Medal (admit you have to get lucky for this one with adrenal/cd popping on a squishy as Focus) Not even a chance unless you are Focus, and even then Biochem consumables + PvP buff + Low-Expertise Opponents + Luck required

75k Healing (have to be Watchman for this, easy to obtain) Possible, but extremely unlikely

 

Most of those are easy to obtain, no reason to not average 8 medals a full game.

 

Answers in red.

Edited January 26, 2012 by McVade

[IamPvP]

Stop whining and learn this class or reroll. We're fine

[TheRealBrave]

Answers in red.

 

Sounds like you're just terribad, honestly. 75k healing is easy as hell to reach as Watchman. I've gotten Assassin medals in team fights many times, bug or not. Also, you happen to run into that guy who insists on fighting you so many times on warzones like Huttball when you're on your way to the ball.

 

300k damage only one time? Sorry you're just a baddie. It's okay, you'll improve when you stop whining about a class that is more than fine. "E-peen stroking" the fact that you even think that it is a rarity to reach 300k damage as a Sentinel explains everything. 300k is something any Sentinel hits multiple times a day, no issue when doing their daily. Doesn't even matter what spec - it's called having a pulse.

 

I get 3k defender on Alderaan roaming... it isn't hard if you roam from node to node with several teammates, and in the process you get medals like you normally would. Also laughing at you saying perma transcendence is unpredictable as Focus. How is it unpredictable? It isn't even something you have to predict, you know whether or not you will get refunded enough centering and it is never an issue. Screw up a Transcendence cycle as Focus? Valorous call is hard to press hurr durr.

 

1k Defender conditional? This is one of the easiest medals to achieve and it doesn't matter what warzone. Fighting near the goal line in Huttball for 5 seconds gives you it for pete's sake.

 

I really don't know what else to tell you, but the fact that you've gotten 300k damage once explains a lot. I got 300k nearly every round as Watchman back when I only had a few pieces of Champion gear, and now with full champion it's a joke getting 300k as any spec. (Done it with all specs plenty of times, hell there are Sentinels that obtain 500k damage in the right circumstances)

Edited January 26, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[McVade]

Sounds like you're just terribad, honestly. 75k healing is easy as hell to reach as Watchman. I've gotten Assassin medals in team fights many times, bug or not. Also, you happen to run into that guy who insists on fighting you so many times on warzones like Huttball when you're on your way to the ball.

 

300k damage only one time? Sorry you're just a baddie. It's okay, you'll improve when you stop whining about a class that is more than fine. "E-peen stroking" the fact that you even think that it is a rarity to reach 300k damage as a Sentinel explains everything. 300k is something any Sentinel hits multiple times a day, no issue when doing their daily. Doesn't even matter what spec - it's called having a pulse.

 

I get 3k defender on Alderaan roaming... it isn't hard if you roam from node to node with several teammates, and in the process you get medals like you normally would. Also laughing at you saying perma transcendence is unpredictable as Focus. How is it unpredictable? It isn't even something you have to predict, you know whether or not you will get refunded enough centering and it is never an issue.

 

1k Defender conditional? This is one of the easiest medals to achieve and it doesn't matter what warzone. Fighting near the goal line in Huttball for 5 seconds gives you it for pete's sake.

 

My, aren't we getting personal in our attacks? I didn't even say we're underpowered.

 

The E-Peen Need is strong with this one.

[TheRealBrave]

My, aren't we getting personal in our attacks? I didn't even say we're underpowered.

 

The E-Peen Need is strong with this one.

 

You personally attacked me first with the E-peen comment, dumb ***. No wonder you fail as a Sentinel, you lack the mental capacity to comprehend your own posts.

Edited January 26, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[McVade]

You personally attacked me first with the E-peen comment, dumb ***. No wonder you fail as a Sentinel, you lack the mental capacity to comprehend your own posts.

 

You're just an angry little man aren't you?

[TheRealBrave]

You're just an angry little man aren't you?

 

I hear being an internet tough guy is awesome. Soon you'll complain that being a tough guy on the internet is too hard and unfair too?

Edited January 26, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[McVade]

I hear being an internet tough guy is awesome. Soon you'll complain that being a tough guy on the internet is too hard and unfair too?

 

I wouldn't know. I don't come onto video game forums and lie about how good I am. How's that working for you, by the way, Mr. 300k Always?

Edited January 26, 2012 by McVade

[TheRealBrave]

I wouldn't know. I don't come onto video game forums and lie about how good I am. How's that working for you, by the way?

 

When did I say I was good? I'll wait on an answer. Your problem is you think 300k damage on an average basis is good. Wanna know something about 300k? It's merely average for an average Sentinel PvPer. I have broken 400k damage with 3 pieces of Champion gear. There are people who regularly break 400k.

Edited January 26, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[ThesisAED]

Just here to agree with this guy, it's been a mixed experience with the sent as my main, sometimes I feel strong sometimes weak ect, no doubt it's a hard class to play, BUT...

 

Rerolled sorc and my endgame T3 geared sent is nearly outdamaged at lvl 10-20 sorc, I can survive longer as sorc, I contribute CONSIDERABLY more to the team as a sorc and it is much more fun to play. It is basically godmode in comparison.

 

Operatives are another good example, they are basically MDPS that work, unlike the infinity+1 bundle of hotkeys that is the sentinel. Not even a pure dps class either so you can try healing or ranged when bored.

 

It really is the worst class in the game atm, viable? sure it is when conditions are met, best at what it does/worth the effort? Nope, enjoy your group buffs at the expense of being a hollow mdps that is barely a class in comparison to everything else in the game.

 

I doubt bioware will buff them either, I would guess they will add on stuff based around the newer "zen" styles and buffs while assassins and operatives remain as the real mdps.

 

On the plus side, we make a great PvE class! (ignoring that we are melee ofc)

 

This is because sorcs. are easymode, mate.

[flowqz]

5medals... wow!

 

why r u guys alway posting screens... it proves nothing at all

[FadedSpark]

I've not bothered reading the thread, i can already tell the content.

 

People need to stop crying about sentinels. Easily the most useful DPS class at breaking up masses of players.

 

Easily the fastest class at navigating a battlefield full of imps.

 

And if you get a group of focus sentinels together... Leap stasis sweep dead.

 

This is hilarious to read.

[Kovaos]

When did I say I was good? I'll wait on an answer. Your problem is you think 300k damage on an average basis is good. Wanna know something about 300k? It's merely average for an average Sentinel PvPer. I have broken 400k damage with 3 pieces of Champion gear. There are people who regularly break 400k.

 

You backed up McVade's point perfectly. You couldn't have done a worse job of digging your own grave on that one!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kovaos

[ProfessorWalsh]

When did I say I was good? I'll wait on an answer. Your problem is you think 300k damage on an average basis is good. Wanna know something about 300k? It's merely average for an average Sentinel PvPer. I have broken 400k damage with 3 pieces of Champion gear. There are people who regularly break 400k.

 

Shenanagins.

 

Sentinels in competitive (non pub-stomp) games don't reach 300k. The actual average is around 150k. People who start breaching 200K or higher are:

 

1) Running with a pre-made and facing a pug.

2) Running with a pre-made and facing enemies who are undergeared.

 

It has far less to do with the "leet skills of the Sentinelz" and a lot more to do with the "leet skills of the Healer who is keeping the Sentinel alive."

 

I know because I breached 400k on my Sentinel three separate times now. Each time it was a perfect scenario, I was the only real DPS on my team at my capture point, I was defending the middle turret on Alderaan from a constant assault of Imps, I was being healed by two healers and I had guard on me.

 

A Trooper, Smuggler, or any other class could have done exactly what I did.

 

Anyone who is breaching 300k regularly in Warzones probably isn't doing their job in the Warzone. That kind of damage output requires a very long game, for one, which means your team wasn't winning. That kind of damage output requires constant attacking which means that you were never guarding a door from stealth attempts in Void Star and you weren't guarding a non-zergged capture point in Alderaan.

 

Alternatively breaching 300k can also mean that you simply got into a "stalemate" war with one enemy where you and him were both being healed so that you were both giving out constant damage.

 

Considering in Void Star I try to win as fast as possible and most matches where I am on a winning team rarely takes us longer than 4 minutes to cap it means I am not spending much time fighting and I am spending far more time trying to plant bombs and outrun the enemy team.

 

Sentinels are a bad class not because of damage output but due to over-complexity and due to a lack of comparable utility.

[mufutiz]

So, now are we not only useless in Huttball, but we are also useless on Ilum (thanks!). So what is our role on Ilum when its zerg vs zerg? Aoe fodder?

 

We(Marauders included), are the only class without a pull or knockback, so while we have to be the victim of all sorts of uncontrolled character movement, we cannot do this to other people. Fun.

 

Class balance is all about compromises, you can do one thing well and another thing you cannot do well.

 

Just look at Sages and Sorc, they can do everything extremely well but they can't stealth. See.

 

Maybe you will find comfort in knowing that, at least you have by far the worst CC of all the classes. Even your 1min CD stun is not only the shortest duration of all equivalent abilities, it's also a self-root for the entire duration. Compromises.

Edited January 26, 2012 by mufutiz

[ProfessorWalsh]

I've not bothered reading the thread, i can already tell the content.

 

You seemed to miss the content or come to false conclusions based on the remainder of this post.

 

People need to stop crying about sentinels. Easily the most useful DPS class at breaking up masses of players.

 

Really?

 

With our poor AoE capabilities and our inability to cause players to react?

 

Breaking up masses of players can be done much better by other classes. We can move in and Force Sweep, which is mediocre if we aren't Focus tree. We can use cyclone slash which also is mediocre period.

 

A Sage, Shadow, Assassin, Sorcerer, Sniper, Gunslinger, Bounty Hunter, or Trooper can actually do a much better job by utilizing AoE knock backs and ground target abilities. Nothing makes a group scatter like a ground target popping up over them.

 

Easily the fastest class at navigating a battlefield full of imps.

 

Trooper, Sage, Sorcerer, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, and Operative all can do that faster and easier. They either have better speed, the same gap closers (Bounty Hunters and Troopers have a version of Force Leap), or stealth.

 

And if you get a group of focus sentinels together... Leap stasis sweep dead.

 

This is hilarious to read.

 

Ever seen what happens when a group of Sages get together and do a Quake?

 

Yes, Focus Sentinels can do a high damage AoE if they are Focus tree... And?