Nightfox_ Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Just so the rest of us don't lose our mind, remember this: The idiots will always outargue and outnumber you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Just so the rest of us don't lose our mind, remember this: The idiots will always outargue and outnumber you. ... IF you're being out argued, you might be wrong and you need to consider that. Outarguing someone isn't being louder, it's presenting a better argument - thus better logic and so forth. Good logical and argumentative skills are generally taken as a sign of intelligence. So if an idiot can outargue you, you really have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 welcome to todays MMO players mate. This is the norm, an its why I NEVER group outside my real life friends. NEVER EVER random group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surefiremm Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Oh please.. Ninja is taking something you were not entitled to take. Please understand, what you do with your winnings is nothing to do with me, likewise, what I do with mine is nothing to do with you. I know you'll be all p*ssed because you lost and then I give it to a companion, but the reality is this. You got a roll, you lost your roll. The story ended right there. Well i will always ask what the looting rules are, if people say they are going to take stuff with their companion, i will just hit the kick button, or if im in the group just leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyACT Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Well, apparently you can. You may not like it OP, neither do I, but your thread title is just wrong, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surefiremm Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Let's just examine the facts shall we? I used a word, and you stated for fact it did not exist. I being the nice person I am, posted you the definition from the English dictionary. Now, having had your 'fact' shown to be what it was; i.e. false, I am now fixated on it. I am not giving up on the argument at all, how-ever, I am giving up replying to you, because you have proven beyond doubt to me, that you cannot debate without insult, and your facts have been shown to be less than credible. Being a the nice person you are would involve not being greedy and clicking need for your companion. Your companion should not be a reason to hit the need button unless no one else wants to item, or they say its ok. If your in a group of people, companions shouldnt even be involved they arent in the group. So then that means because your companions take up pretty much all kind of class gear, you are just going to hit need for every good item for a companion? Kinda ruins the point of need. The last thing we need is companions running around with better gear then the people we are doing an operation with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) ... IF you're being out argued, you might be wrong and you need to consider that. Outarguing someone isn't being louder, it's presenting a better argument - thus better logic and so forth. Good logical and argumentative skills are generally taken as a sign of intelligence. So if an idiot can outargue you, you really have a problem. This gets my vote for post of the day. Edited January 27, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaydrane Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Need" is a relative term in a MMO. All this argument over non existent items on a computer in a digital world. Can you take these items home at night and hang them on your wall? Will they make you money to pay your cable, electric, rent or mortgage? I find this whole thread a rather silly. If you don't set rule at the start (which only a party leader has the right to do) then this whole thread was a pointless waste. I've never seen so much need to control other people's actions as I do in most MMOs. Either MMOs breed control freaks or attract them by the droves. If someone doesn't agree with one argument then they are a horrible evil person. If they agree with another argument they are immature and selfish. I think a few of you need to take a look at yourselves before you jump all over other posters for not jumping on your band wagon. There is a lot of grey area on this subject. Any logical rational person can see that. Every pug is a different situations. Adaptability is the only way to solve this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyACT Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Need" is a relative term in a MMO. All this argument over non existent items on a computer in a digital world. Can you take these items home at night and hang them on your wall? Will they make you money to pay your cable, electric, rent or mortgage? I find this whole thread a rather silly. If you don't set rule at the start (which only a party leader has the right to do) then this whole thread was a pointless waste. I've never seen so much need to control other people's actions as I do in most MMOs. Either MMOs breed control freaks or attract them by the droves. If someone doesn't agree with one argument then they are a horrible evil person. If they agree with another argument they are immature and selfish. I think a few of you need to take a look at yourselves before you jump all over other posters for not jumping on your band wagon. There is a lot of grey area on this subject. Any logical rational person can see that. Every pug is a different situations. Adaptability is the only way to solve this problem. Not really a wasted discussion. I group with others to help us all get better gear (and have some fun along the way). If gear drops that only the other person or my pet can use - then the other person should get it imho. Same for the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaydrane Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 imho That nails this whole tread down. Opinion If the op didn't ask or clarify how they expect loot to be distributed then yes this thread is a waste. Communication is a very powerful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belbullab Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 don't agree with the op. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulvan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 No taking something for the mods is stupid especially in your case. All he could take out is the enhancement to use all he did was take something away from a class that needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itekazzawrrlic Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) If you're allowed to roll on it, you're entitled to a shot at it. Even if it's just to put on the GTN. Trying to stack the deck in your favor and then crying about greed is the height of hypocrisy. Edited January 27, 2012 by Averran comment on deleted post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurewind Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) If the loot rule is Need before Greed, then you operate by the rules of Need before Greed. If you're rolling Need on an orange item with the intent of stripping the mods out of it and vendor trashing them, then congratulations, you officially don't understand how NBG has worked for years now, and you've just served to undermine the system. Which is, of course, your choice, but don't pretend you aren't doing just that. Or that you're some logical crusader who is justified in his actions because he is somehow campaigning to make the loot system fairer for everyone. Be proud of destroying the system that others are following for everyone's mutual benefit. Wear that badge with...pride? Or...whatever you want to call it... You rolled Need on that item, with all of its mods inside it, with the intention of selling those mods instead of using them, when another player in your group would've immediately put them to use. That's a Greed situation not Need one, and you've just hurt your team's effectiveness because of it. The fact that SWTOR's orange/custom item system may be unique from other MMOs changes nothing. Cosmetics are never a matter of Need when the cosmetic in question carries functional modifications with stats that better benefit another member of your party, which you intend to throw away in order to replace with your own. ...Of course since NBG is an honor system, you can freely choose to throw honor to the wind and claim Need on everything, thus destroying the entire purpose of the system. This act however, has been a top cause of smacktards getting booted out of top raiding guilds since vanilla WoW. NBG is NBG. Follow it, or don't follow it. If you don't follow it, then expect to get an earful from the rest of your teammates and the community at large who do follow it. Edited January 27, 2012 by Azurewind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbird Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This thread is proof that the implementation of a cross server dungeon finder can not damage the communty, since this crap is already common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancwn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 They should have gone with pure commendation loot system or Round the robin and do away with BoP equipments. NBG promotes loot entitlement and always create drama because somebody can always find a reason so his need is greater than the other people need. We have main tank that think he deserve certain piece more because he is THE main tank and you should equip him with the finest gear first etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevax Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 i find it incredible that people can try to justify Needing on gear they DO NOT NEED. if the gear is not optimal for your class and spec then you do not need it . Im a jugg DPS, and when heavy STR gear drops if it has defence stats on it i would be a real jerk to roll need on it as is clearly made for tanks. However there are looser greedy ninjas everywere and the only thing youc an do is call them out on it or save screen shots to make them look bad to the rest of your server. My server has a low pop, and all the good players and guilds know each other, it wouldnt be that hard to blacklist someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancwn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) i find it incredible that people can try to justify Needing on gear they DO NOT NEED. if the gear is not optimal for your class and spec then you do not need it . Im a jugg DPS, and when heavy STR gear drops if it has defence stats on it i would be a real jerk to roll need on it as is clearly made for tanks. However there are looser greedy ninjas everywere and the only thing youc an do is call them out on it or save screen shots to make them look bad to the rest of your server. My server has a low pop, and all the good players and guilds know each other, it wouldnt be that hard to blacklist someone. Here you go, another person from the loot ENTITLEMENT camp think one deserve the gear more due to his 'ROLE' in 'THIS RAID'. God forbid the other DPS want it so they can change their spec to Tank when needed. Edited January 27, 2012 by ryancwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 This thread is proof that the implementation of a cross server dungeon finder can not damage the communty, since this crap is already common. Wrong. As long as you're limited to your server, you can blacklist the people who break the rules. And with the Legacy system, it makes it even easier. Keep your propoganda in your own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 i find it incredible that people can try to justify Needing on gear they DO NOT NEED. if the gear is not optimal for your class and spec then you do not need it . Wrong! If I say I need it, I need it. The rest is none of your business. You get a roll, I get a roll. That's fair. What you are stating as fact, which is false, is that you should be allowed to sway my choice of how I roll to benefit you. How greedy is that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If the loot rule is Need before Greed, then you operate by the rules of Need before Greed. If you're rolling Need on an orange item with the intent of stripping the mods out of it and vendor trashing them, then congratulations, you officially don't understand how NBG has worked for years now, and you've just served to undermine the system. Not if he's planning to use the Orange armor. Let's say someone is playing a Guardian... but an Orange Heavy chest piece drops with Aim armoring and mod, but Critical enhancement. -The armor is heavy, he can use it. -The enhancement may be useful to him. -He likes the look of the armor. In this case, he would be "Needing for Appearance". Personally, I ask if it's ok to Need for appearance, especially if the armor will be a significant upgrade for someone else. However, unless the armor is level 50, you will be replacing those mods in a few hours... so the stats really don't matter. In this particular case, Orange armor is nothing but a Need for Appearance. Again... people should establish their loot rules at the beginning. If they don't, they have no one to blame but themselves if someone Needs "outside the box". And if someone attempts to break the loot rules, you kick them... it's that simple. And if you forgot to establish loot rules, then chalk it up to lesson learned and move on... /ignoring the ninja in question and spreading it around your guild and friends not to accept him into parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancwn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) /ignoring the ninja in question and spreading it around your guild and friends not to accept him into parties. I hope you mean this apply to the person who broke the established rule instead of ppl who needs 'outside the box' Breaking an established rule is one thing. Rolling needs not according to your 'assumption/opinion' is another. Edited January 27, 2012 by ryancwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I hope you mean this apply to the person who broke the established rule instead of ppl who needs 'outside the box' Breaking an established rule is one thing. Rolling needs not according to your 'assumption/opinion' is another. Someone who "needs outside the box" and someone who "breaks the loot rules" are the same person, IF you established rules beforehand. But yes, I get what you're saying. If you do not establish loot rules beforehand, you shouldn't /ignore and blacklist someone for needing something you think they don't deserve. Edited January 27, 2012 by Sai-to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw-Complex Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Someone who "needs outside the box" and someone who "breaks the loot rules" are the same person, IF you established rules beforehand. But yes, I get what you're saying. If you do not establish loot rules beforehand, you shouldn't /ignore and blacklist someone for needing something you think they don't deserve. Do you establish with a girl on the first date that you won't **** her? No. It's assumed you won't because we try to pretend we are decent people. So why should every group have to spell out what should be assumed by all? Unless it's a special situation, then the rules are indeed in effect. Saying it's not your fault that you needed an item you cannot use or is not for you because nobody told you that you shouldn't do that is a bs cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zannis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Almost 80 pages of complaints by people who lost the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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