LogicalPremise Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've tried to explain that before. It never works. I agree. It's not ninja looting. It's not the nicest thing to do. But everyone who rolls has an equal chance at it. That's not at all ninja looting. Talking logic to most of the people on the forums is akin to teaching a brick to swim through the use of smoke signals. The commutation channel isn't there. Too many people come with fixed preconceived notions of what "must be" or "must not be". Unhappy people don't want to hear the issue might be them, happy people don't want to hear there are problems with the game, immature people don't want to have to be responsible, mature people don't want to be "bothered" with those who aren't.... But bottom line: rolling on items you can't use, that your companion can't use, that you can't trade or give to someone else and only vendor sell, when it's been discussed before hand, is not defensible, period, ever. It's rude, illogical, and spiteful, and I'm sure someone will suggest otherwise but suggestions are much like another part of the anatomy everyone possesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirfin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thankfully everyone I have grouped with (save one, and if he ever asks for help again, he won't get it from me) has been very respectful of this. In fact in one group a guy even asked to roll on an item that was clearly designed for his class (mine as well, but he won it. Good for him). That being said, it comes down to, put those people that don't play fair on your ignore list, avoid them, and move on. Unfortunately the selfish will be just that, especially in an anonymous form of media such as this. Moving on to another point, no people that play in PUG are not incapable of being social, some of us just don't level as fast. I don't have time to game as much as many of the players I have friended, so they have all moved past me. We get along well, but I just can't play a level 45 FP at 33, so I'm off looking for a new group. Lastly, to the "I can so I will" person above, yes you can, but that doesn't make it right or socially acceptable. Thus the question of morality. That being said, your statement about everyone rolls even on a need roll, thus still making it competitive is wrong. It isn't competitive because the one person that rolls need will always win the roll. That is not competition, that is taking. If you are one of two that roll need, you are cutting two out of the competition and competing with someone that may actually have a use for the item, one their character, right now. The generally accepted way to handle the action is to avoid rolling need unless you can use it, and not to sell, trade, or reverse engineer. Of course, you are perfectly within your rights to ignore socially acceptable behavior, but don't be surprised if as you go on it becomes harder to group, you get kicked from your guild, and people ignore you. This goes the same for the "I roll for my companion" folks. There is nothing to prevent you, but remember your actions have consequences, and there are plenty of other, nicer people to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it /thread You're also able to go buy a gun and shoot yourself in the head. Please consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I am so glad LFG is not in the game, so it doesn't ruin this amazing community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrilean Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...if anyone in that class is with your group. I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing. Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket +34 Endurance +38 Cunning +18 Critical Rating when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them. When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed. Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result. One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them. Well, regardless of your views on loot, if you don't agree on loot rules before starting the run, then you deserve to get ninjaed. Think of it this way: If you agree on loot rules ahead of time, and someone breaks them, you have grounds to report them(in other games I've played, if someone broke established loot rules, you could report them under the "scamming" flag, and you'd get your loot and they'd get an infraction) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 One of the more common suggestions is to add a "Need for Companion" button. That doesn't work in this instance. This is a situation where a person rolled on it because they liked the look of it. And that person could equip it. Another suggestion is making FP/Heroic drops class-specific. There already are class specific orange items. This wasn't one of them. This thread is about a Marauder rolling on an orange item they could equip and winning that roll over someone who could also equip it. The Marauder just wanted to look pretty. Well the orange items are there for people to look pretty. This thread isn't as cut and dry as the one you came from Face. This one is murky. Because a strong case can be made that the Marauder just wanted the item because they liked the looks of it. And since that's what Orange items are for ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehoornde Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't care, I never read the tooltip. When I can click need, I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatTripp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...if anyone in that class is with your group. I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing. Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket +34 Endurance +38 Cunning +18 Critical Rating when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them. When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed. Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result. One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them. This is why you make your own group, and make sure you are the last to roll. If someone rolls Need on something they do not need/cant use then kick them. This is how i run groups if i pug ( i havent done a flashpoint since level 25 on my level 50 BH). That way they dont get the item they tryed to ninja and everything is fine. Half the flashpoints you can duo with pets anyway you dont need a full group of 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Pants Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it /thread and this is what wow did to the mmo genre. no regard for other players at all and only thinking of yourself. this is an mmo. not call of duty. you are supposed to work together. not against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That doesn't work in this instance. This is a situation where a person rolled on it because they liked the look of it. And that person could equip it. There already are class specific orange items. This wasn't one of them. This thread is about a Marauder rolling on an orange item they could equip and winning that roll over someone who could also equip it. The Marauder just wanted to look pretty. Well the orange items are there for people to look pretty. This thread isn't as cut and dry as the one you came from Face. This one is murky. Because a strong case can be made that the Marauder just wanted the item because they liked the looks of it. And since that's what Orange items are for ... That was my point, it is not clear and cut in the case of Orange items. It does not matter what the orange item is called or what stats it comes with, you can modify it. All the marauder has to do is take those mods out and put his own mods in and suddenly the armor works for him. But some people didn't seem to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That doesn't work in this instance. This is a situation where a person rolled on it because they liked the look of it. And that person could equip it. There already are class specific orange items. This wasn't one of them. This thread is about a Marauder rolling on an orange item they could equip and winning that roll over someone who could also equip it. The Marauder just wanted to look pretty. Well the orange items are there for people to look pretty. This thread isn't as cut and dry as the one you came from Face. This one is murky. Because a strong case can be made that the Marauder just wanted the item because they liked the looks of it. And since that's what Orange items are for ... I believe this situation was discussed in the other thread, and the opinion of the majority of posters there felt that Needing on an Orange with mods you can't use, but someone else can, is douchey. Destroying mods for the sake of the gear is not cool, in the opinion of most (in that thread). But I could be wrong. I haven't gone back and re-read that beast. I get too angry. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignam Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 why do people post about this. If you do a pug anything bad is your own fault for not having a guild or 3 friends to play with. hell do it with 1 friend and companions. Also if someone does something like this you just remove them from group on the spot and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Half the flashpoints you can duo with pets anyway you dont need a full group of 4. Hey, let's keep that info on the QT please. If people started to find out they could gear themselves and their companions up on their own ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...if anyone in that class is with your group. I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing. Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket +34 Endurance +38 Cunning +18 Critical Rating when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them. When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed. Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result. One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them. Be glad when you find someone doing this, it means you now know who is an *** and who not to team with, along with those agreeing with him on general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I get too angry. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. You really need to relax and chill out. How much ninja looting have you experienced in this game? Like, here we have me. A self confessed ninja looter. And I can tell you other than Aim-Sabers, there's just not enough chances to do the deed. What kind of groups are you getting into? This game is so much fun and I've played with so many cool people. Grouping's been nothing but good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it /thread say NO to X-realm LFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsdcaedus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it /thread this is the sociopaths answer to everything. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarrmar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 At least in Operations there is a greatly reduced chance of this happening as the game simply decides who gets what gear from a boss. No one is able to roll need or greed on any of the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You really need to relax and chill out. How much ninja looting have you experienced in this game? Like, here we have me. A self confessed ninja looter. And I can tell you other than Aim-Sabers, there's just not enough chances to do the deed. What kind of groups are you getting into? This game is so much fun and I've played with so many cool people. Grouping's been nothing but good times. I still haven't had this happen, thankfully. I just get angry about the thought of it happening. I realize that I get more worked up about it than a calmer person does. Yet I keep coming back to these threads. Maybe I'm a masochist. I can also see where there can be some major griefing happening the other way, too. Someone told me yesterday that her 11 year old adopted daughter Needed on something she couldn't use, and was called some very harsh names by people in the group. I think the ultimate issue here is about having respect for your group members in all sorts of different cases, and what kind of actions you may take that can convey disrespect for your group members. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDiciple Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I still haven't had this happen, thankfully. I just get angry about the thought of it happening. I realize that I get more worked up about it than a calmer person does. Yet I keep coming back to these threads. Maybe I'm a masochist. I can also see where there can be some major griefing happening the other way, too. Someone told me yesterday that her 11 year old adopted daughter Needed on something she couldn't use, and was called some very harsh names by people in the group. I think the ultimate issue here is about having respect for your group members in all sorts of different cases, and what kind of actions you may take that can convey disrespect for your group members. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. And I can also claim I'm who knows what, and therefore deserve all pity and compassion and... or I work for FBI and will get all of you arrested/killed/<insert your favorite qq hate mail>, blah someone said something on the internet. On topic - PUGs in every game are same. People that should read forums do not, or couldn't care less. So it turns out like preaching to the choir. Some people yell, or get annoyed, but truth is, there is no way around it but making 'special' lists and moving on. Eventually they wont have many people to group with, or will group with likeminded people, whatever. Most you can do is announce your expectations at the beginning of the FP, but even then, can't expect this game's PUGs to be much better than any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonDs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it /thread Ok.....all I ask is that you say something when when the run starts so I don't pass on things and then you "need" on what I want. That said I think that it is important before ech run to clear things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakner Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And you wonder why some people chose to solo in MMO's with companions. This thread is full of the real winners in life, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanhurst Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just put them on ignore and be done with it. This isn't cross server anymore so either they learn from thier bad behavior or eventually they will be playing alone. Also, adding the same last names for all a persons toons is a wonderful new tool to identify these guys when they reroll to get away from their douchebaggery. Sure you can hide it now,but what about in a year or two? "lfg for (insert raid name here) must have proper gear,know the run and have legacy name shown. (we wanna know who we are running with)" If people can and did exclude people from runs for gearscore/pvp gear/no achieve,you bet they will use the legacy name as a check as well. We have all these people coming from that other game thinking that they can do as they please becasue over there you are just a random name pulled from a random server never to be seen again. I don't think some of these guys understand just how much being on a server blacklist can shut down your play options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akma Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You people whine too much. inb4yourealootninja. (I've never done what OP and others are shedding tears over). If the guy wants it, and he participated in killing the mob, he has equal rights to it no matter his class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 This is still going? It's so simple.. If you need it hit the need button. otherwise just greed. so many opinions around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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