jcyrus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Let's make a hypothetical situation for a moment in which it is announced they're removing the Expertise stat, and that non-PvP consumables and relic clicky buffs were being barred from warzones. Rather than the PvP +Expertise% consumable, it would become a +15% damage consumable. All non-PvP consumables (stims, non-PvP medpacks/adrenals, etc) would be unusable, as would the clicky effect of relics (though the constant benefit of a relic's stats would still be in effect). Would you view that hypothetical announcement as a positive one, or a negative one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanix Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 positive , expertise its a aberration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khabarach Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Negative. PvP would then be dominated by the hardcore raiders as it'd be by far the best gear to have. Edited January 21, 2012 by Khabarach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaderin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Negative. PvP would then be dominated by the hardcore raiders as it'd be by far the best gear to have. No, it wouldn't because Bioware would do the sensible thing and equalize the gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnyvor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Agreed. Raiders would faceroll PVP without expertise. While I don't believe expertise is a perfect solution, it is a viable one because it forces players to PvP if they want PvP gear. PvP would suffer is PvE gear became the new norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No, it wouldn't because Bioware would do the sensible thing and equalize the gear... PvE and PvP are not of equal difficulties. To give equal gear for each would just be silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Negative. PvP would then be dominated by the hardcore raiders as it'd be by far the best gear to have. LEt me guess, you are one of the crowd thinking that removal of expertise means that missing stat points will never be compensated on pvp sets? Ever played warhammer online? There was no expertise and guess what! PvP sets were just as useful! Why? Because PvE sets had stats suited for PVE builds like healing or tanking and PVP sets were for DPS. Equal tiers, equal number of stats, just different stat allocation for variety. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lerdoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 LEt me guess, you are one of the crowd thinking that removal of expertise means that missing stat points will never be compensated on pvp sets? Ever played warhammer online? There was no expertise and guess what! PvP sets were just as useful! Why? Because PvE sets had stats suited for PVE builds like healing or tanking and PVP sets were for DPS. Equal tiers, equal number of stats, just different stat allocation for variety. WAR PvE lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Let's make a hypothetical situation where when you enter a Warzone all stats are standardized regardless of your gear and no consumables can be used. That way you can be whatever level you want with whatever items you want. You could run around naked if you like, as long as you have a weapon and relics (since weapons are necessary for abilities and relics have activated abilities). The difference in level would only translate into a difference in available abilities and talent points. Now -- check this out right here -- PvP Warzones would be SKILL BASED. You would be able to balance PvP around Warzones (open field PvP could still be as unbalanced as you would like it to be) and PvP rewards could be perks, cosmetic items (gear that has unique looks but comes "empty"), neat color crystals that you can't get anywhere else, and possibly even gear for your companions. Of course the BAD PvP players would RAGE HARDCORE because they cannot win without an advantage gained through time spent grinding out Valor ranks and random-chance bags -- not through skillful play or teamwork. Edited January 21, 2012 by Tiresias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knvkl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 PvP players always claim that PvP requires more skill than PVE, but they also want their unfair advantage through a gear grind (expertise). Removing expertise would show who's really skilled and who only has too much free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Coming from a PT with 520something expertise, I wholeheartedly approve of the removal of this stat. Failed in WoW. Failed in Rift. PvP-specific stats are fail period. Want to give PvP-gained gear an edge in PvP over PvE-gained gear? Then change the set bonuses to reflect better PvP utility, and add more endurance! Will this require some work and effort on the part of the developers to balance? BY GOLLY YES. Dare I say slightly more work than simply throwing on aspect-specific statistics on gear gained from that aspect of the game! But as paying customers of the MMO that has the highest funding of any MMO ever, I don't feel that is asking too much, damnit! Edited January 21, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 WAR PvE SETS Fixed for you as your skill in selective reading is too high to comprehend to my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Fixed for you as your skill in selective reading is too high to comprehend to my post. This game has homogenized stats. I suppose we could have two sets of stats. For example, PvE-Endurance vs. PvP-Endurance, but then there would be absolutely no gear crossover-ability from PvE to PvP, and that's about as bad as complete gear cross over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No, it wouldn't because Bioware would do the sensible thing and equalize the gear... And then raiders would complain that theres no reason to raid because you can get better gear from PvP. They need the expertise stat to keep PvE gear out of PvP and keep gear progression in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husanak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 PvE and PvP are not of equal difficulties. To give equal gear for each would just be silly. BS That is all. Sorry I don't see the issue with equal gear really... as I see it its about time spent playing. Which one is it you are saying is harder ???? lol Honesty if people are concerned about PvE gear in PvP... add a PVE stat that boosts the raid gear... and otherwise make the High end PvP gear = too the high end PvE gear.... problem solved. Raid gear is still better for raids... but equal in the warzones... I myself don't care if all the PvE people want to show up... give them equal gear and when we beat them up they have no excuses. Heck they might even pay attention to the real reason their loosing, improve their play, and end up queing more and giving us faster que times. All good in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannicus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Negative. PvP would then be dominated by the hardcore raiders as it'd be by far the best gear to have. That's why the removal of expertise would result in comparable stats for comparable tiers of gear across all content. Players only need PVP gear so they do not HAVE to PVE for good gear. They should drop Expertise entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) And then raiders would complain that theres no reason to raid because you can get better gear from PvP. They need the expertise stat to keep PvE gear out of PvP and keep gear progression in PvP. Why do people like you assume a PvP stat is the only possible way in the universe to keep gear progression in PvP fair? Are you saying you refuse to even consider exploring any other potential way of doing so? PvP gear comes in sets. Make PvP gear give slightly less DPS-stats than PvE gear, but significantly more endurance (for non-tanks). Additionally, make the set bonuses of PvP gear give significant bonuses to PvP-utility skills, stuff like CCs/CC breakers, as well as giving role-specific bonuses that are only applicable in PvP - stuff like a DPS class reducing the healing a player-target takes, tanks getting a flat damage reduction from players, healers doing more healing on players in combat with other players. These things can't be delivered all together for every class evenly based on a single stat, that is stupid and lazy designing. But the bonuses can be meted out appropriately and individually as determined by gear/class/spec. I thought of crap like that and I have no experience in game design. Just imagine what a team of highly-payed professionals can think of! Preferably not ones working at Bioware, but the point is this is easily done. What they have now is a system comprised of laziness incarnate. Edited January 21, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love to pvp, but generally hate raiding, so I love expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's why the removal of expertise would result in comparable stats for comparable tiers of gear across all content. Players only need PVP gear so they do not HAVE to PVE for good gear. They should drop Expertise entirely. You know you can join wz's right? The PVE'ers try this with every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almghty_gir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This game has homogenized stats. I suppose we could have two sets of stats. For example, PvE-Endurance vs. PvP-Endurance, but then there would be absolutely no gear crossover-ability from PvE to PvP, and that's about as bad as complete gear cross over why would you need that? pve = strength/endurance/power/accuracy, giving more sustained damage that is required in pve. pvp = strength/endurance/crit/surge, giving more burst damage that is required in pvp. OH ITS MAGIC. as for the whole "WAR pve lol" comment... i agree that WAR's pve was pretty bad, in fact terribly bad. but the premise that the pve/pvp sets had equal stat values but different stat distributions was great. it allowed for much better gear mixes for min/maxers, it allowed people to decide which sets and stats were more important to them, and it meant that no matter if you were pve or pvp oriented, gear would never be the thing that cost you a win. that is, until they revamped sovereign gear to stupid levels, and made it even worse with doom/warpforged gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husanak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love to pvp, but generally hate raiding, so I love expertise. I don't really understand your point. Is it that you don't want to have to raid too have the best gear.... Is it that you don't want people that don't PvP alot to pvp... Is it that you like to beat up on people that don't have their gear yet... There are better ways to keep people from using raid gear in PvP. All Expertise is doing too you right now is limiting how many people will play against you. If gear progression continues like it does in most games... new players WILL NOT PvP as after a few more levels of Expertise are introduced the amount of time people will have to spend loosing will limit the number of players willing to slug it out. It also means those Weekend warriors that we see in most games (with out expertise type stats) that PvPers love to beat up on... won't come out either. There is a massive difference between getting beat up and getting pulverized by people with insanely better gear. Those people won't que up or show up on PvP planets either. Bottom line is Expertise is a door keeper stat... and too be frank I would rather welcome as many people into PvP as possible... Otherwise down the road the VAST majority of players will be PvE only, and Bio will only naturally focus the majority of their dev time on PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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