Why are so many people against Arena in Swtor?

[muscarine]

Because they should focus on World PvP.

 

Yup, and because i personnaly don't play a MMO to pvp in a 12m² box all day long.

[Malbolgiaz]

Stop missing the point which is that the OP said the rewards would be the same. Hell I wouldn't care if arena gave no rewards and was just for fun/epeen.

[Kaliem]

Arena's in tbc was the most fun I have ever had in a mmo, and although I may of had the best it could offer and pretty titles and mounts spread out across several characters, I would still love it, if it gave no extra gear no titles, and sub par valor gain, and was just a little extra optional add in. see nothing wrong with that personally.

[BegaTasty]

its been said 100 times, Arena breeds 14 year old angst, hate an spam. Not to mention it destroys community. granted tor has no community, but it will jsut make it even worse.

[Steevog]

Arenas add a small group size pvp element to balance with the larger scale map types. You end up with healers that can keep people alive indefinitely or setups where two people could coordinate and cc/kill someone (a ball carrier for example) with no way to counter it. PVP balanced around 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 really complicates trying to keep larger match sizes balanced at the same time.

 

A deathmatch warzone wouldn't be a bad idea, but if half the pvp crowd stopped quing for the objective based maps then pvp would lose a lot of it's depth. You can win huttball with coordination even if you are out geared and outnumbered, but in an arena setting it's a match of who has the best healing debuff, or who has the most cc, or who can stack dps buffs and burst the hardest. You end up with classes that are too strong in one pvp type and almost useless in the other type.

 

Also, adding a pvp type with a separate que than the current WZ que system would make the que times on lower population servers even longer. We need pvp improvements that increase the pvp population before we add things that separate it into niches.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Steevog

[Auxili]

When a lead designer in WoW says Arena was the worse thing they could have ever done, you know it was bad. Most PvP balance came from Arenas, and in turn affected people who did Bgs or WZs and in turn it ****ed up the PvE'ers. So no. You want 3v3 Go set it up with the people of your own side, then talk to people of the opposite Faction, find a nice area away from interruptions and you can have all the "Arena" time you want. NO ONE wants people stroking their E-peen in everyone's faces every chance they get. Its not cool.

 

100% this

[Mackuss]

OP, read this post please. It should end the

 

thread.

 

Areans are utterly toxic to MMOs because they destroy the integrity of any ambitions for the game. The second you insert arenas into MMOs, it is no longer a game with arena in it. It is now a game solely balanced by and for arena.

 

Don't believe me? Listen to Blizzard

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

Edited January 24, 2012 by Mackuss

[Mackuss]

Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP.

 

"Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well.

 

The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button.

 

It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed.

 

So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP.

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

[Kaliem]

Don't balance around it then, whats wrong with just throwing in a time killer, balance or not, so 1 or 2 comps float to the top of the "Op" ladder, who cares, if it doesn't give anything that warzones don't give better, then does it matter, don't add any reward system, hell don't even give it any valor or commendations gain.

I personally enjoyed fighting against the odds even if I knew my composition wasn't as strong.

Win or loss.

[Darshk]

There's no reason not to have arena. People would play arena just for a competitive ladder, there wouldn't need to be rewards. Balance is entirely possible in arena as long as you're willing to make certain abilities do different things in different situations, which BioWare is.

 

You're all just naysayers

 

Also, if you actually read the interview you'd know that the developer didn't actually say Arena was a mistake. WoW insider just likes to take things and run with them. he said he regretted the way arena was implemented which is a HUGE difference.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Darshk

[Jest]

Put in Arena.

 

Give Arena wins a lower Valor and Comm reward than WZ losses give.

 

Give Arena Ratings of some sort that Award only Titles, Mounts, Pets, etc..

 

 

This way Arena does not become the most effecient way to grind PvP gear but gear can still be achieved through the same system of Valor and Comms.. so the lionshare of the balance requests will still be based around Warzones.

[Vydor_HC]

Sorry I am confused, why would players who do not like the arena system claim they do not want it when it is a 100% voluntary action? There is a smaller minority of people who love arena who love the fact that your fighting on a ladder system, that there is zero chance of anyone interrupting your fight and it all comes down to you and your partners skill. Yes of course some balancing would take place on classes all arena would do is put a spot like on the too powerful classes so Bioware may allow balance. World of Warcraft had massive diversity in there classes that caused huge balance issues constantly, Swtor has very very similar mechanics entwined into each class that would save tones of nerf/buff patchs.

 

Things Swtor could do better to Arena type pvp

 

-> Same rewards for Arena pvp as all other type battlegrounds? (same gain rate, so people who only like arena dont have to play huttball against/with bots and afks.)

 

->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill.

 

TLDR : Arenas were fun in wow, a lot of people used them. Why are there masses of people so against in a 100% voluntary action in a game?

 

 

Well, there are many good threads covering this topic. But the short and simple answer comes down to balance. For an e-sport to be viable, there needs to be balance inherit in the system and classes so that there are no unfair advantages. MMO's though are inherently formed around imbalance. Every one develops their characters at different rates, in different ways. When you join the two activities into one game....one side will suffer..or both sides will suffer. It's not fair to players that are fans of either styles of play to force that compromise on them.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[Jest]

Well, there are many good threads covering this topic. But the short and simple answer comes down to balance. For an e-sport to be viable, there needs to be balance inherit in the system and classes so that there are no unfair advantages. MMO's though are inherently formed around imbalance. Every one develops their characters at different rates, in different ways. When you join the two activities into one game....one side will suffer..or both sides will suffer. It's not fair to players that are fans of either styles of play to force that compromise on them.

 

Swtor Arena doesn't have to strive to BE an E-sport. Just as FFXI's PvP tourneys never tried to be an E-sport.

 

Some people just want smaller, more controlled PvP. Rated Warzones will satisfy that to a certain extent. 3v3 and 5v5 "TDM" style options would do well to round it out.

 

Edit: I suppose 3v3 and 4v4 would be what we'd have here specifically.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Jest

[Vydor_HC]

Swtor Arena doesn't have to strive to BE an E-sport. Just as FFXI's PvP tourneys never tried to be an E-sport.

 

Some people just want smaller, more controlled PvP. Rated Warzones will satisfy that to a certain extent. 3v3 and 5v5 "TDM" style options would do well to round it out.

 

-nods-

 

I understand that...but e-sport it is, and it still comes down to balancing the game around it. If Bioware could completely divorce the system from the rest of the game, so that balance issues are not a concern then it "might" work. But then one would have to ask, why play an MMO in the first place...there are lots of more balanced competition games out there that play much better.

[slowcivic]

baddies cant take being exposed as baddies

 

the arena question is always answered the same way with the same excuses. not one person ever says "I hate arena because I wasn't good enough to get gladiator", which in 90% of the cases, is the truth.

 

 

face it baddies, when I landed next to you on my frost wyrm, you had to admit (even if it was very briefly, and only to yourself) that no matter what you did, this would be beyond your grasp

 

 

thats what mmo players don't like the most

 

 

 

This times 100000000

[Jest]

-nods-

 

I understand that...but e-sport it is, and it still comes down to balancing the game around it. If Bioware could completely divorce the system from the rest of the game, so that balance issues are not a concern then it "might" work. But then one would have to ask, why play an MMO in the first place...there are lots of more balanced competition games out there that play much better.

 

It really isn't though. Just the same way that warzones/bgs/whathaveyou aren't E Sport.

 

If you make the gains from Arena be equal or less than Warzones (personally... I think less than would be best) then there's nothing that pressures players into playing Arena specifically for the gain.

 

Thus the balance concerns will stay focused on the primary format of gains.. Warzones... which is where it is already.

 

Put in an arbitrary Rating or Arena Experience system that awards Titles, Mounts, Pets, and other Non-consequential rewards and people will be fine with it.

[Vydor_HC]

It really isn't though. Just the same way that warzones/bgs/whathaveyou aren't E Sport.

 

If you make the gains from Arena be equal or less than Warzones (personally... I think less than would be best) then there's nothing that pressures players into playing Arena specifically for the gain.

 

Thus the balance concerns will stay focused on the primary format of gains.. Warzones... which is where it is already.

 

Put in an arbitrary Rating or Arena Experience system that awards Titles, Mounts, Pets, and other Non-consequential rewards and people will be fine with it.

 

Well, I'm not really talking about rewards..I know that people would want to play in arenas for the pure competition. Which is a major part of my point. They want true competition that tests the "skills" of the player, not the benefits of levels, classes, or equipment. The smaller you make the groups, the finer the balance has some be.

 

Bioware can throw 8 to 16 people together against each other in warzones because the balance doesn't need to be as defined. Numbers can mask inequalities. And still you will have people clamoring for nerfs and changes. This becomes more pronounced with arenas. And though I hate to mention them, Blizzard developers do have experience in this area, and they have said the same thing.

 

You have to separate the two..to be fair and make it work without damaging the game for those that do not PvP. It's hard enough making Open PvP and PvE exist together...without including a specialized e-sport version of PvP.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[Sexualchin]

Playing FOTM comps does not make a good player.

 

You know your FOTM comps will play against other FOTM comps, and a winner will be needed. So yes arena was very competitive.

 

I've been playing from season 1 in arena and in WoW and I never had such a blast at PVP.

 

To those who said arena is **** they probly just sucked at it.

 

There's a reason it became en e-sport. Few games can brag that title.

[Wyrdstar]

Want E sport? It's that way /points in the direction of S. Korea lets see how bad *** you really are.

[Vlaid]

The pvp systems in SWTOR would make arena absolutely horrid.

 

Please for the love of god don't even try and jam this square pvp into a triangle shaped arena.

[Ryotknife]

You know your FOTM comps will play against other FOTM comps, and a winner will be needed. So yes arena was very competitive.

 

I've been playing from season 1 in arena and in WoW and I never had such a blast at PVP.

 

To those who said arena is **** they probly just sucked at it.

 

There's a reason it became en e-sport. Few games can brag that title.

 

there is also a reason why arenas were the biggest joke of an e-sport....

 

and yes, i believe that arenas are @#$% because they single-handedly ruined wow pvp. not to say that people who play/enjoy arena are @#$%, but the system is.

 

although, lets be honest here. while every group has bad apples, the arena crowd has a LOT of bad apples ratio wise. you know who i am talking about. people who need arenas to validate their existence.

 

ex-wow players do not want to see swtor pvp turn into wow pvp because...honestly if we wanted that we would just play wow. the easiest way to prevent the destruction that wow pvp suffered is to not institute arenas.

 

not saying that is the RIGHT or FAIR choice.

 

if arenas could be implemented in a way that prevents pvp being balanced around it, doesnt force players to participate like wow did, etc etc then yes i would support arenas. however, maybe its the skeptic in me, but after what i saw happen to wow i dont think that such a plan is possible.

 

arenas added to the pvp experience for the first...oh 6 months or so when they were introduced. i had a blast. but eventually the arena metagame for pvp slowly started to from and choked the life out of pvp. the change was not sudden, it was a very slow creep. hell i would be hard pressed to point how when exactly arenas became detrimental. probably somewhere in the S3-S5 range (probably depends on what fotm comp made you want to tear your hair out. druid/hunter, druid/war, or dk/pal)

 

but it came to the point where i would literally rather go to work for an entire day for FREE than play 10 games of arena.....and im DEAD serious about that.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Kaliem]

probably somewhere in the S3-S5 range (probably depends on what fotm comp made you want to tear your hair out. druid/hunter, druid/war, or dk/pal)

 

but it came to the point where i would literally rather go to work for an entire day for FREE than play 10 games of arena.....and im DEAD serious about that.

 

And I for one, enjoyed playing at or close to Glad range at all times strange and wonderful comps because I saw no reason to get annoyed at "Fotm comps" If I beat a druid warrior playing Shadowpriest Warrior, hurray \o/ if I lost to the next one that came along oh well, the time spent was enjoyable, you did not need to be a top tier comp to get high or to enjoy it, and as already stated, nothing wrong with slapping it in, not balancing around it, giving it no special treatment of any sort, gear or otherwise. there is no argument against this. just a decent time waister and fun for people like me who played it for the enjoyment factor, not the gear.

[oozi]

reason i quit swtor. turns out all the whiny pve'ers are the target audience of this game. I dont care about story I want competitive pvp that is fluid.

[Squishsquash]

Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day.

 

 

 

why should ******* who afk have the same gear chances/gear as skilled players who dedicate themselves to learning strats, comps and becoming better. also, same rewards available via rated BG's that also prove your worth.

 

bad players are and always have been against arena, because clickers simply can't compete. coming from a gladiator. I never even hesitated to take a new player to a raid if he had a good arena title because i knew he would most likely be more solid then some scumbag who could "farm bg's"

 

I can't even believe people would question the idea of skill based loot. sigh, bad players want hand outs from an rng system compared to trying hard to attain a goal.

[Kolbenito]

Sorry I am confused, why would players who do not like the arena system claim they do not want it when it is a 100% voluntary action? There is a smaller minority of people who love arena who love the fact that your fighting on a ladder system, that there is zero chance of anyone interrupting your fight and it all comes down to you and your partners skill. Yes of course some balancing would take place on classes all arena would do is put a spot like on the too powerful classes so Bioware may allow balance. World of Warcraft had massive diversity in there classes that caused huge balance issues constantly, Swtor has very very similar mechanics entwined into each class that would save tones of nerf/buff patchs.

 

Things Swtor could do better to Arena type pvp

 

-> Same rewards for Arena pvp as all other type battlegrounds? (same gain rate, so people who only like arena dont have to play huttball against/with bots and afks.)

 

->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill.

 

TLDR : Arenas were fun in wow, a lot of people used them. Why are there masses of people so against in a 100% voluntary action in a game?

 

If you haven't noticed there are a lot of wow haters on these forums. The other type played wow and had a season where their preferred spec wasn't at the top. A third would be people using your ratings as the go-to insult on forums if you are low rated with a lot of games played.

The legit complaint is that for a time bgs were rendered meaningless, blizzards biggest mistake was not putting in rated bgs when arena went live.

 

I liked arena. I don't think swtor is polished enough yet to support that level of competition yet. Maybe in a year, lots of kinks to work out still.