Halofax Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Assassin's have high sustained damage, force run, push backs, taunt and they can guard. The battlefield wasn't even before the nerf. Assassins were always better and now they'll be miles away better. Lol what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saben- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Utilise the fact u can heal yourself and ur not all about bursting and you may start to shine again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 most classes (except tanks) at this point are next to dead and dont require much effort to finish off... You mean get kited until you're dead. Right now I can kite them easily after the alpha strike. After this they'll be laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akikage Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Nevermind Edited January 21, 2012 by akikage I'm dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) With no sustainable dmg, no knockback or sprint, are we now completley useless in pvp?? Sure! Dilettants continue their "innovations" ^^ Will roll Sorc - it was easy to play before - now, it one true powered class (and a Sages too, sure) Edited January 21, 2012 by SilverWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewzzz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Assassin's have high sustained damage, force run, push backs, taunt and they can guard. The battlefield wasn't even before the nerf. Assassins were always better and now they'll be miles away better. Before bracket change i had op/scundrels in lvl 3X hit my sin in champion gear so hard so it is more or less gameover. but i can't do the same in that short time against them. And i can't guard, im dps so i do not use dark charge. and who am i gonna taunt when i have a op standing on my back hitting me for 5k each time. i cant even run, i cant do anything. Even with this nerf they will have a big opener. How come there is so many op/scundrels around when you say sin is always better. Do you really mean you OP/scundrel ppl pick that class to have a challenge when you pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsick Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hunting and killing fast =/= 2 hit kills 20 percent damage from one attack isnt a nerf. Its an adjustment. No Operative is two-hitting anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love it... seriously its amazing. You had your opener reduced by 20%, i'll be fair here... instead of 5k you now open for 4k... The 3 second stun (which was the biggest problem with Ops) has been halfed, so now you get 2 hits in before any retaliation instead of 3... Acid blade armor penetration has been reduced, lets say someone has mitigation at 30% before you ignored half of that so damage mitigation became 15%, now however you will only ignore 30% of it, so that will be 20% mitigation. Before nerf: Open at 5k follow with 3k another 3k most classes (except tanks) at this point are next to dead and dont require much effort to finish off... After nerf: Open at 4k follow with 2.8k Most classes will be around 50-60% HP and you will have to actually fight someone, who knows you may even need to use a medpac or even your heals before you can finish them off... This sounds about fair to me guys, sorry but this nerf isn't OTT at all, not even close to it. Hello, noob! Opener - 3-4k, then, pushback or any another control, then bye-bye oper, go to resp ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vletts Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 QQ Scoundrel/Operative will still destroy most classes. They're actually upping their defense and the standard damage of Power Shot by 15% (more sustained damage). The major nerf is 20% off Hidden Strike damage, the knockdown being reduced to 1.5sec, and 20% off armor penetration. Having permanent 50% armor penetration is stupid, being able to just destroy tanks, even though they're... tanks? Hidden Strike is the most powerful skill in the game currently in terms of single-target damage and critical rate, it needed at least a slight damage nerf. The knockdown nerf is because when you knock somebody down, the CC-breaker skill doesn't really help because it also takes them time to get up. When you include the time it takes the to get up even, it was closer to a 4.5sec stun, so now it'll be closer to 3 seconds. Do you really think one skill should be able to crit for 7k, stun someone for 4.5sec where the trinket doesn't work and increase the amount of damage someone takes by you by 10-30%? Half of an Operative/Scoundrel's skills are ranged, and all I ever see people do is gank and hide, gank and hide. They'll have 12 kills and 4 deaths or something, no group kills, no healing, and like 120k damage done. I was breaking 200-250k damage on my low level Operative because I played it as a ranged/melee hybrid that could also gank/stun. You don't even know how much of an advantage having a ranged standard attack is over melee. Wow.. I think you missed the whole point in the post. It is not one change that they are complaining about... its the fact that multiple things are being changed at one time. As an instructor in science you know that multiple changes for observation is FAULTY. Your second ERROR in judgement is that is only one skill tree the smuggler/imperial agent set up has a ranged tree and a melee focused tree.. Ops and Scoundrels are the melee aspect.. research before you look ignorant. And your last point, on my Vanguard tank, I have finished matches with 20+ kills and 3-4 deaths.. and have seen Commandos and even Sith saber weilders.. sorry brainfart on name and at work so making this fast.. with 30+ kills and 0 deaths.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyScience Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Time to start playing with the team, instead of being xxxlonewolfelitexxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caultonpos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Exact same happened in Aion - they nerfed the assassin so the class couldnt kill anything. I dont see myself playing this game much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love all the Ops claiming they just "get kited" and "do no damage out of stealth". Obviously bad Operatives who only bound one attack because that's all they needed 90% of the time anyway. Maybe the reason why some of you guys didn't see how insane the class really was is because you never played the class very well to begin with. A good Op/Scoundrel didn't just open with Hidden Strike and then stand there confused if their opponent moved. You're the equivalent of the Merc's who backpedal away for 4 seconds every time someone interrupts Tracer Missile because you didn't have anything else bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawox Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 i guess this is how 2012.21.12 will look like everyone sees it coming but when it comes ppl just freak out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImSaved Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The people comparing Assassins to Operatives are idiots. They're two different classes that both happen to have the ability to stealth. And if you think Assassin DPS is bad then . People will continuously respond "oh, but that Assassin is buff stacking, they fixed that." Well if you can show me a video of an Operative / Scoundrel critting for "7k" or "2-shotting" someone without the stacking of buffs or consumables, even BEFORE the nerf, then I will concede that the class is overpowered. Unfortunately such a video does not exist. Because against equally geared players, without buff stacking, a Scoundrel / Operative will never achieve those numbers. Their damage will be in the same range as any Mercenary, Assassin, or equivalently geared DPS class. The fact that you personally cannot achieve these numbers doesn't mean they don't exist. And this is why people constantly use the term "L2P." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gabe Amatangelo should fire himself before he can do any more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love all the Ops claiming they just "get kited" and "do no damage out of stealth". Obviously bad Operatives who only bound one attack because that's all they needed 90% of the time anyway. Maybe the reason why some of you guys didn't see how insane the class really was is because you never played the class very well to begin with. A good Op/Scoundrel didn't just open with Hidden Strike and then stand there confused if their opponent moved. You're the equivalent of the Merc's who backpedal away for 4 seconds every time someone interrupts Tracer Missile because you didn't have anything else bound. LOL you have no clue how to play an Operator. Its impossible to play an Op with one button, and its impossible to hit hard after the 4 initial melee talents are done....there are just no attacks that have decent dps until Shiv comes back up. Nice job pretending to be educated about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) NO utility what so ever. The sole purpose was hunting and killing fast. WZ:s will now be decided on which team has the least amount of ops/scoundrels. Total BS imo. I can GUARANTEE YOU that 95% of the whine regarding Ops is because the people getting killed by ops in WZ:s think that the Ops are so damn overpowered, when infact there is 4 other guys dps:ing them as well. But since the Ops hand out the knockdowns and is standing right behind them - they get the "blame". Honestly, BW should have waited and looked into the situation a while after the new brackets got introduced, or at least look at numbers - with a proper LOG. Now there is no way for the whiners of telling if "all that burst" actually comes from the Ops or ranged dps hammering them. They just blame the ops. OMG - LOTS OF INC DMG, OPS BEHIND ME, gosh darnED OPS! Sure - Remove some burst, but without more utility that is BULL. Really weak, devs.... Way to not friggin go BW. /end rant no they were nerfed mostly do to a few videos were done to make a valid point and i wish i'd saved the links. The video was of a battle master scoundrel, and a battle master sage i think it was. Anyway they wanted to display power of biochem(which was half the issue) and so he pops his relic and stim, and hits the BATTLEMASTER 500+ EXPERTISE sage for 5.5k opener followed by a 5k backstab, and a 3k shot(dunno what it was) and 2x 500-600 dot ticks now lets add that up! 5.5l 5k 3k 500 500 what 14.5k damage? most dps classes ONLY have around 15k what 16-17k at best so now your saying fully geared scoundrel facing down a fully geared dps class(arguably most squishie) was able to pretty much kill them inside of the first 3 seconds of battle pretty much even if you ONLY get first 2 attacks still 50-60% of that players life bar in seconds! This is all about metrics and devs are seeing " hey this class is killing all other classes consistently within X seconds is probably broken" i think issue is they nerfed them when i think adrenals were probably needed to be nerfed first since they are what gave the class its uber burst THEN seen where they stood after that. Edited January 21, 2012 by Lokai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 LOL you have no clue how to play an Operator. Its impossible to play an Op with one button, and its impossible to hit hard after the 4 initial melee talents are done....there are just no attacks that have decent dps until Shiv comes back up. Nice job pretending to be educated about the game. Have fun quitting your "Operator" and desperately searching for the next FOTM class that you won't be any good at, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Remove that and you have an assassin, finally the battlefield will get even. Except sins do far more sustained damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
origional Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ive not seen any sign that either class mentioned is anywhere close to useless. They both still do ery well in pvp when in capable hands. Its only the players who rolled to have an I win button that are struggling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Assassins damage is all close in, right? And good OP/Smug damage is all close in, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no stealth class that does good damage at long range. So would it be impossibly annoying and OP if OP/Smug had one good long ranged damage attack to differentiate them from the Assassins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I love it... seriously its amazing. You had your opener reduced by 20%, i'll be fair here... instead of 5k you now open for 4k... The 3 second stun (which was the biggest problem with Ops) has been halfed, so now you get 2 hits in before any retaliation instead of 3... Acid blade armor penetration has been reduced, lets say someone has mitigation at 30% before you ignored half of that so damage mitigation became 15%, now however you will only ignore 30% of it, so that will be 20% mitigation. Before nerf: Open at 5k follow with 3k another 3k most classes (except tanks) at this point are next to dead and dont require much effort to finish off... After nerf: Open at 4k follow with 2.8k Most classes will be around 50-60% HP and you will have to actually fight someone, who knows you may even need to use a medpac or even your heals before you can finish them off... This sounds about fair to me guys, sorry but this nerf isn't OTT at all, not even close to it. STOP IT. You're making the Ops/Scoundrels think. That's like dividing by zero bra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So would it be impossibly annoying and OP if OP/Smug had one good long ranged damage attack to differentiate them from the Assassins? Probe+Snipe actually does a respectable amount of burst in a pinch. I've seen more than one Operative/Smuggler utilize cover and ranged attacks to good effect in finishing off opponents. Especially melee, since just dropping to a knee counts as "cover" for the purposes of preventing charge mechanics. (/grumble) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Probe+Snipe actually does a respectable amount of burst in a pinch. I've seen more than one Operative/Smuggler utilize cover and ranged attacks to good effect in finishing off opponents. Especially melee, since just dropping to a knee counts as "cover" for the purposes of preventing charge mechanics. (/grumble) And I goofed, too, I think I meant op/scoundrel. Smuggler is the ranged with no stealth, right? Embarrassing! But okay, I didn't realize this was viable. I didn't really get into the class much. Very annoying in pve for some reason. And when I tried pvp I felt like I had to get in close or I wasn't really playing correctly. Of course, being low level, I got spotted and stomped pretty quickly, too. I ended up healing warzones with that toon! Edited January 21, 2012 by maradigamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And I goofed, too, I think I meant op/scoundrel. Smuggler is the ranged with no stealth, right? Embarrassing! Scoundrel is just the advanced class of Smuggler. I got your intent either way. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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