There is no value to being a hard core dedicated crafter in this game

[TrevNYC]

I enjoyed SWG crafting a ton as well...it was really innovative. Now, I personally prefer a world where crafters are the main source of stuff...its more realistic and it allows for people specialize in that sphere of the game. However, no developer wants to do this anymore since for some reason all they care about is catering to the raiding group and PvP groups. Now, for the record, I do BOTH...but I also love to craft. Is it so hard to make a game that has indepth and detailed valuable systems for all 3? They are NOT mutually exclusive.

 

They aren't mutually exclusive, but yes, it is hard. It can be done, but one obstacle is that many of the people who say they want all three styles supported actually don't. They want the model that you described in your second sentence, and they won't be satisified until the PvE/PvP crowds are *dependent* on crafters in the way that those same crafters say they don't want to have to depend on PvE/PvP.

 

In short, they don't want to fix the problem. They want to dump it on the other guys.

 

By the way, the "some reason" that developers build robust PvE and PvP systems into these types of games is because people want them to. Threads here love to talk about how "everyone hates" either PvE or PvP or both, but if anyone released an MMO where those two took a backseat to something else (which theoretically, should happen if they really are hated, right?) then the game would get flamed to no end.

[Hanscholo]

That is complete garbage OP, i have a friend that is constantly selling items on the GN...as a synthweaver.

 

He cant make items fast enough. So, clearly it can and is being done, so whats the problem other than you cant seem to work it out?

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

That is complete garbage OP, i have a friend that is constantly selling items on the GN...as a synthweaver.

 

He cant make items fast enough. So, clearly it can and is being done, so whats the problem other than you cant seem to work it out?

 

amen.

 

it's funny that people who claim to want to be a "hardcore" crafter don't understand basic supply and demand. they just sit there making level 48-50 stuff and wonder why nothing is selling (((((

 

 

protip: sell to the 30-40 leveled guys. armstech, totally useless at the endgame, is extremely profitable simply because of this.

 

then again, credits are pointless after you get that sweet CE mount.

[Pureblade]

Well, since my complaint was not really that I cannot sell stuff to make tons of cash at the moment, and you clearly did not read my posts or the MAJORITY of replies that agree with what I posted, I am not sure what you are really getting at. I am not complaining that I can't sell some low level crap for a profit. Try reading the original post.

[RobNightfall]

Nope, no point at all really. Biochem and cybertech are what pay off in end game, nothing else really does. Artifice can make the pretty-in-pink barbie crystal for those that want it, but that's it.

[Erliandur]

Crafting should produce the best pre- and early raid and PVP gear, which is replaced by better BoP gear as people progress down those respective paths. It shouldn't be a joke that is passed over because of commendation vendors, or from raid schematics that invalidate everything beneath them.

 

agree 100%

[POPsi]

OP, you are doing it wrong. Get aligned to the system and you will be fine. You know you are spending a fortune on endgame crafting items that are worse compared to what you can get from PvE/PvP. Here is what I do. Don't give *** about REing to purple, nor trying to craft lvl 50 items that won't sell anyways. As a biochemist I only RE green recipes up until blue quality, between lvl range 39-49. It is much more credit friendly than dealing with purples, I can craft a lot of these, often with augment, and I can sell them for decent amount of credits.

 

I'm not saying your points are not valid, but if the endgame crafting system is broken, why bother with it when you can make money out of non- endgame crafting?

[archifikoss]

It would have been awesome if Armormechs, Synthweavers, Armstechs and Artificers (though I believe they don't actually craft lightsabers?) could actually modify the way the piece of armor they are about to craft looks like... Changing the patterns and colors, adding/removing doodads, stuff like that... Edited January 27, 2012 by archifikoss

[Big_Bad_B]

I enjoyed SWG crafting a ton as well...it was really innovative. Now, I personally prefer a world where crafters are the main source of stuff...its more realistic and it allows for people specialize in that sphere of the game. However, no developer wants to do this anymore since for some reason all they care about is catering to the raiding group and PvP groups. Now, for the record, I do BOTH...but I also love to craft. Is it so hard to make a game that has indepth and detailed valuable systems for all 3? They are NOT mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, yes, it is incredibly hard.

 

I can't, off-hand, think of any 'theme park' MMO that's managed to balance all three 'item sources' (PvE, PvP, Crafting) to the general satisfaction of all three types of player.

 

As you say, they're not mutually exclusive, but getting the balance right in this area is up there with class balance in terms of complexity (and actually feeds into those issues, as gear has such a significant impact in most MMO game systems).

 

To expect any MMO to launch with a fully functional, perfectly balanced crafting system from start to end game is, in my opinion, a little on the optimistic side.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Big_Bad_B

[SgtSplacker]

Pointless loot in SWG? Can I say Mandalorian armor? It included a friggin jet pack that worked!!! Pointless? But but.... sigh

[tylersavesworld]

I gave up on armormech/scavenge/underwold and switched to biochem/bioanalyst/diplomacy.

 

This was after the biochem nerf.

 

The funny thing is, biochem is the best profession, and I don't even craft with it anymore. I got my reusables and just let it sit there now.

 

 

 

 

TLDR;crafting sucks

Edited January 27, 2012 by tylersavesworld

[Dantragk]

I gave up on armormech/scavenge/underwold and switched to biochem/bioanalyst/diplomacy.

 

This was after the biochem nerf.

 

The funny thing is, biochem is the best profession, and I don't even craft with it anymore. I got my reusables and just let it sit there now.

 

 

 

 

TLDR;crafting sucks

 

I'm currently doing that. I dropped the same and picked up the same. I'm about 150 Bioc and Bioa and about 80 Dip. I should be 400 in all in a few days.

 

The worst part is the way they made it. It takes so *********** long to grind even if you have the money. *********** stupid *** system.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Dantragk

[Criosdh]

Amen to that, I faced the exact same situation you did, but I stopped entirely when I got the General lvl49 chestpiece as an artifact and noticed I could get mod gear, put mods and have a better end result than what time I spent on Synthweaving from lvl38 to 50. (Or pvp items for that matter, as you mentionned)

 

I pretty much agree with all of you guys. This problem was apparent in LotRO as well. You could spend tons of gold, materials and time crafting something that was essentially the exact same gear that you could equip 1 or 2 levels later.

 

In the fast paced and quest based leveling MMOs of today a 5% increase in bonuses isn't worth all the time and effort it takes to get your hands on a piece of equipment like that.

 

Player crafting vs quest drops vs raid gear vs etc has sucked it up in most MMOs latey.

[Majestic-]

With the Dev's ignore skill at 400/400. I can see that crafting in this game is dead/dying. Everyday is see less and less crafted products on GTN. Looks like i will get my trade up to 400/400 and drop crafting as well. Just no credits in it (armsmech).!

[Shadanwolf]

I think we can all see this is a casual game. Dumbed down for casual pve'rs.Faction vs faction conflict...nope.Crafting is just for those who want to craft...but like faction vs faction conflict it is not a salient feature in the game.

 

The game was purposefully made for the middle of the road gamer.Push at the edges....crafting....faction vs faction conflict....and the game comes apart.

[WartornSC]

I totally agree with the OP.

 

Something should change to make crafting more viable in the future.

At least make it meaningful.

[KidRaid]

I think the probleme for the dev is that, like many other things in this MMO, they are under constraints when it comes to the crafting system.

 

The crafting need to be "optional". Because of this the system cannot provide rewards that would be clearly better that what you would get as drops doing other activities (especially at end game).

 

The economy need to be managed to avoid runaway inflation. Because of this what is available in the fix price market (i.e. in game vendors) is compeditive with crated gear (maybe not as good but close enought to discourage inflated prices) and also the cost of gathering purple material is kept high enough by having it very randomly dropped.

 

Both of these restrictions make sense in the contexte where they are trying to make an adventure MMO (one where you spend your time doing mission) rather than a crafting MMO.

 

This being said I beleive that the system could be improved to satisfy those of us who like the crating but would like to have it be rewarding enough tom be worth the time/credit investement.

 

suggestion

 

Allow me to do repeatable mission ( even if it is only once a day) to get specific purple materials. These could be simple missions where you are sent to an instance , need to kill a few ennemies, click on a few things , beat an elite..... whatever is deemed difficult enough. And the reward would be crafting material. This way I would have a better way than just sending companions again and again just hoping for a lucky roll. The "in game logic" is that instead of sending my companion on a mission on his own I actually went treasure hunting ( slicing , underworld trading..etc...)took my risks and therefore got what I was going for.

[rigormortua]

I think the intentions were good in concept by limiting the crafters to 3 slots was suppose to make trade a viable option. As I have found out it did quite the opposite there is no sharing only hording and lets see how fast can we get to 400. IMHO the easiest fix for this would be to limit each toon to 1 ability. this can be a 2 edged sword. On one hand you would make people interact with one another you could also make each transactoin worth social points. you could also make the yields higher in groups. but on the other hand you would get people asking high dollar for materials and finished goods. This is what happened in SWG. there will be always in disagreement but hey thats life. lemme say one last thing that most people will not like but I am going to say it. the next time you reada post that you do not agree with take a few seconds and try to look at it from their point of view.Who knows we just might find a happy medium...

[Nattskugga]

Boggles my mind how badly most MMO's still make player crafted items.

The first graphic MMO out of the gate, Ultima Online, had it right from the start. The best gear in the game, or at least comparable to any drop, was player crafted.

THEN all gear had durability which couldn't be fully restored; eventually your weapons/armor would break and force players to get new gear.

This meant player crafted gear was ALWAYS in demand.

 

How is this recipe for success so hard to follow?

The notion that no one will raid unless they can get gear rewards is a lie.

The proof?

One, players in other MMO's that have complete sets and still raid.

Two,you can make some valuable schematics the rewards.people will raid to see the content, earn credits, and all the kudos that come with being able to say they did it.

Three, you can make some valuable schematics the rewards.

Ultimately, if the reward for raiding is gear then once that gear is obtained your argument is that raiding is worthless which creates a cycle of constantly needing new gear to fill the void...that's the same recipe for crap most MMO's already have.

[TrevNYC]

Boggles my mind how badly most MMO's still make player crafted items.

The first graphic MMO out of the gate, Ultima Online, had it right from the start. The best gear in the game, or at least comparable to any drop, was player crafted.

THEN all gear had durability which couldn't be fully restored; eventually your weapons/armor would break and force players to get new gear.

This meant player crafted gear was ALWAYS in demand.

 

How is this recipe for success so hard to follow?

 

It's not. Didn't Star Wars Galaxies do this? I'm not sure the recipe was a success, but that's another debate.

 

The notion that no one will raid unless they can get gear rewards is a lie.

The proof?

One, players in other MMO's that have complete sets and still raid.

 

Those people do it because they want to help their friends who don't have complete sets. Once everyone has everything they can get, they tend to stop (and complain that they have nothing left to do). It's entirely unclear that a model where raids don't reward anything (except maybe money/schematics?) would work well.

[MadImmortalMan]

It's not. Didn't Star Wars Galaxies do this? I'm not sure the recipe was a success, but that's another debate.

 

 

 

Those people do it because they want to help their friends who don't have complete sets. Once everyone has everything they can get, they tend to stop (and complain that they have nothing left to do). It's entirely unclear that a model where raids don't reward anything (except maybe money/schematics?) would work well.

 

Since the core of the problem is that gear comes from loot drops, I really don't see any fix that would make you happy and also produce a functional MMO economy, Trev.

 

Maybe mix it up and make some gear slots best filled by raid and others best filled by crafted items, I don't know.

Edited January 27, 2012 by MadImmortalMan

[oredith]

Maybe mix it up and make some gear slots best filled by raid and others best filled by crafted items, I don't know.

 

again, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

 

wow has already gone through the growing pains, and solved this.

 

every profession has an item that they can make/access that's BiS for ONE slot.

[TrevNYC]

Since the core of the problem is that gear comes from loot drops, I really don't see any fix that would make you happy and also produce a functional MMO economy, Trev.

 

Maybe mix it up and make some gear slots best filled by raid and others best filled by crafted items, I don't know.

 

To be clear, I'm not unhappy with the current system. There are a few glaring holes in it, mostly with missing schematic types, but I don't think the crew skills system is broken.

[MadImmortalMan]

I think I wouldn't mind if my reward for doing a raid was a rare or unique material required to craft the item I want rather than the item itself. That would work.

[Nattskugga]

It's not. Didn't Star Wars Galaxies do this? I'm not sure the recipe was a success, but that's another debate.

 

Actually the crafters praised SWG's crafting system even though the whole rest of the game was a mess. I'd say the worst part of it was the material gathering which isn't exactly the 'crafting' part.

 

 

Those people do it because they want to help their friends who don't have complete sets. Once everyone has everything they can get, they tend to stop (and complain that they have nothing left to do). It's entirely unclear that a model where raids don't reward anything (except maybe money/schematics?) would work well.

 

I specifically said that raid rewards could be schematics as well as all the other raid rewards people have being talking about in other threads, titles. ranks etc. So yeah, there are other carrots that raiders can chase that aren't simply the next piece of gear for their set.