There is no value to being a hard core dedicated crafter in this game

[EdAraujo]

At least not for Synthweaving. I have to ask, and would LOVE some kind of Developer feedback. Why is crafted armor such garbage? For example, I spend a FORTUNE..and I mean a FORTUNE on REing green level 49 armor recipes.

 

First...If I want to get a certain version, like the Redoubt version off the Defensive based green recipes, I sometimes have to get all 3 blue versions as I get it last....

 

Ok...I can live with that.

 

Second, when I finally get the blue version, it adds a little armor and 1 stat. No more end/str/etc. The gear is still decent, but not great, especially when it costs me a ton of time and money to even get the recipe. Then, no one wants to buy it, certainly not at a price that allows me to come close to even recouping my investment, let alone profit, because they keep 1 piece of orange gear forever and remod and reslot it, or get TONS of cheap and easy mods/armorings/enhancements CONSTANTLY from quests, commendation vendors, etc. These allow orange armor to stay equal to any blue recipe I can make through 50.

 

Ok, I COULD live with that if there was some final payoff to all my massive investment and dedication to crafting...

 

Third, I get the special drop Paragon level 50 heavy armor recipes (as an example), which take a TON of materials to make (6 pieces of Ciridium which costs 1000+ a unit since it can only be gotten from purple 340 skill missions or 1 or 2 UWT missions at a time that yield TWO or maybe FOUR pieces at best at a time). I make a crapload of those and RE them until I get the Redoubt version I want (of course 3rd one I get after spending several hundred thousand in materials). It gives me the purple Redoubt. I then RE the purple redoubt version, which I spend nearly 800,000 in materials to get ONE recipe. The purple redoubt version take SIX ciridium and FOUR mandalorian iron EACH time, plus the t6 green mats. THEN, when I FINALLY get a success...I get the POS General version, which adds presence. GREAT! Not at all useful or marketable as end game armor...PLUS...theres MORE!

 

Does it add any more armor? NOPE. Stays at 124 armor rating. The NEW UPGRADED RE that cost me damn near 1 million credits to learn, adds some Presence...and THAT IS IT! No more armor even though it "upgrades", no more end/str/etc...NOTHING. Not to mention the new recipe requires 8 Mandolorian Iron and 6 Ciridium, so over 100k to make 1 piece. So, pretty much unless I get the fortune to get the Veracity armor recipe, which is the only real useful one for tanks, and there is pretty much a similar situation for other pieces for different classes, it is a waste.

 

BUT WAIT!...theres more!

 

Add to that the level 49 RE I did on a blue that yielded a purple General version after MUCH REing...and after MUCH MORE REing to get Veracity...I SUCCEED! Only to be told that I "Already know that schematic"! YES! I can get a purple RE success and get the SAME PIECE OF **** recipe again!! That makes sense!

 

After all this, I just go PvP for a while, and complete a few PvP quests, and get a few bags...and get out of 9 bags....a 136 rating pvp lightsaber, an implant, a chestpiece, bracers, and gloves. Oh, and all the armor that took MINIMAL effort has 136 rating! YES! Screw that garbage level 50 dropped recipe, DOUBLE RE, million credit and dozens of hours investment armor...when you can get PvP armor that has MORE armor, EQUAL end/str type stats, similar defense and loses 1 stat like absorption in exchange for expertise. Now, for PURE min/maxers is the expertise a total waste for tanking..YES. However, the effort/value is nowhere NEAR balanced.

 

So, I ask..1) Why can I get the SAME recipe on an RE success and get NOTHING? Considering the effort involved, would it kill them to allow you to always get a new recipe?

 

2) Why can I RE a recipe and get a supposed "upgrade" that has NO MORE armor, NO MORE end/str/etc, NO MORE defense/absorption etc, and just adds ONE stat?

 

Seems to me that dropped recipe blue armor that is RE'd TWICE (which can and does usually take about 10-25 tries the first time and 10-20 tries the next time) should get visibly better EACH incarnation. I mean, isn;t that supposed to be the big REWARD for being a hard core dedicated crafter that was discussed? A simple system that rewards serious crafters with the ability to make serious gear? As it stands now, NOTHING I make is worth the effort when compared to the pathetic ease with which one can get pvp gear that is comparable or better, or orange gear with new mods/armor/enhancement replacements every few levels with almost NO investment.

 

Seems like this is like other MMOs, where crafting armor (and other gear) will be a useless waste of time other than for a small handful of a couple of cherished recipes that everyone will want you to make, and otherwise your skills are trash and useless. Not a robust system where crafted gear is valuable across all levels and in demand and tbhe best most dedicated crafters make superlative gear that is on par with basic raid gear and raids yield even better recipes/materials. What do we have now? Oh sure, I guess I could make Rakata gear after raids...and then? Can I RE it? No one is sure, but assuming it follows the pattern, I could..and what? Raid 50 times to RE one recipe? So that it gains nothing but some defense? Also, honestly, the Rakata gear is not even that great.

 

Overall, I am just SORELY disappointed. I mean, I am ok with the massive investment and difficulty involved in getting recipes, IF the end yield was worth it. Alas, the yield is total garbage and NOWHERE near the investment. Crafting, at least for armor, is worthless.

 

EDIT--Why do basic PvP bags gives SECOND tier PvP gear (rating 136 gear)? Seems that they should give Tier 1 gear as a substitute for using the t1 tokens you get in the bags, not a complete tier increase as well.

 

Im in whole hearted agreement with you. Synthweaving is utter crap. On top of being forced to RE greens to blues to purple, I have crew missions that take 2k to go on, can only send one member out at a time for fabric, and have to wait an hour to get the mats back. This MIGHT yeild enough mats to make ONE blue item, which I then have to wait a half hour to craft, only to MAYBE (and probably NOT LIKELY) get a schematic for a purple. This means that, at lvl 50, I have to stay logged in for ten hours just to craft a handful of blues in order to get anywhere and lets face it, I have better things to do.

 

Love you guys. You said everything.

[Eortotai]

SWTOR crafting is basically a result of conflicting requirements. It will never be compelling or enjoyable to the masses until such time as they fix the conflicts, and even then it will only appease one of two camps.

 

There's two ways to look at crafting in an MMO:

 

1.) As a profession to make money

2.) As a method of advancement for a character's ability/power/status.

 

I'll call them camp1 and camp2.

 

Camp1 is easily defined and demonstrated by Eve Online. It's a system that hinges around a forced consumption of goods (Players primarily produce the best and most items) and a forced restrictions/limitations on production (Blueprints are resources which are limited and tradeable). It's a rational system, and it works. Unfortunately, for it to work you have to keep in mind that not everyone wins. The market is only interested in certain items, and only those people who can provide those items are in a position to make any decent money. That said, if you're into crafting as a profession, it's a compelling system as it's modeled after a system we're all comfortable with - reality. To some extent, the early MMOs were actually in this vein. For Camp1 to work, you also need market tools to make it more viable.

 

Camp2 is more loosely defined and ,for the sake of identifiably, I'll just call it WoW-post vanilla. Your crafting skill is basically a secondary (or tertiary) XP bar. As you level your crafting up instead of unlocking new powers you buy at a class trainer, you unlock new items to buy/learn from your crafting trainer. Since this is on a personal level, these items need to be BoP. (You can't trade your powers to someone else, nor can you trade your items). It's on par with the FPS XP system (like Modern Warfare) where you get new guns as you level up.

 

In a completely pure world, camp1 is all BoE and camp2 is all BoP.

 

It's safe to say that camp1 can't work in SWTOR. Gear is given out all over, and without restriction or limitation. The only way to make professions would be a WAR system of consumables combined with Eve's BP restriction; which has proven to not be enjoyable for crafter or consumer. So, ruling out camp1, leads to a focus on camp2.

 

Again, the problem is, someone at Bioware made (and extremely poorly thought out) requirement that "crafting shouldn't be required".

 

Crafting is basically viewed as one of three "options", in regards to PvP, PvE, and Crafting. So, in some Bioware designer's mind, it made sense that doing PvP results in you excelling an PvP (Better PvP focused gear), doing PvE results in you excelling at PvE (PvE focused gear), and doing crafting results in... Nobody got that far. They just hacked the current system up and called it a day. You can't have "Crafting focused gear". It serves no purpose. There's no competition in a Camp2 system, so what would you be doing with it?

 

The only purpose on crafting is to produce items to excel at combat, or to provide vanity (excel at social if you will). Right now the social aspects of crafting (customs) are terrible. They're BoE, and they're just recolors (at best) or the exact same as items you can get in-game.

 

Making gear for alts is great. It's a nice way to have non-combat experiences in the game and in some cases to build social webs. It's just not a good foundation to base a part of your game that's generally important to many MMO players. To some extent, you can blame DAoC and especially the later incarnations of WoW for making Camp2-style crafting, where people feel it's now a secondary XP bar. One way or another though, I think the general consensus at this point is "I should craft to level to fulfill my character" and for that to happen, there needs to be a personally-compelling reason to craft, which their currently isn't, because Bioware has stated in writing that there should be no in-game bonus for crafting that you can't just get through some other method. People will rarely choose the irrational option (which in this case is to spend a huge amount of time and resources/credits to level a skill that results in no gain).

 

As an aside, Reverse Engineering is basically a really poorly thought out Camp1 feature, stuck in a Camp2 system; which is why it's so terrible. The idea is to create false limitations by using serendipity to limit production options. Unfortunately, it's as poorly implemented as it was conceived. If there was a fixed limitation (you're allowed to randomly get one item per level) it would work marginally, due to being enforced. As it is though, there's no limitation on production except for time and resource input. There is no skill or ability involved in the development or production capability. Just luck and sometimes patience. Since the system is OTHERWISE a Camp2 system, people just assume they have to crank through the crafting to "succeed" which means they're spending an inordinate amount of time and resources to produce.. nothing. Gear for alts basically, given the fact that the system was designed to deter people from trying to make everything to try to implement production limitations. So people get into the crafting skills and come to the realization "this system sucks".

 

TLDR (and no real news): Crafting in SWTOR is poorly thought out, and a direct result of conflicting designs and requirements. It will continue to be an eyesore until the requirements are made consistent.

 

My guess is they know this, knew it when they slapped this system together, and didn't really care to worry about it till an expansion.

 

I couldn't have said it better if I took 3 hours to think it out. Great job, and I agree.

 

/sign for revamped crafting! I think either:

 

1. Remove mods from commendation vendors and Daily missions, and make PvP gear not modifiable at all, and make it take more commendations (which would all combined make a lot of people very angry).

2. Make crafted gear have just as good, if not better, stats than PvP gear, and make it similar to low level ops gear, so it is actually viable for keeping up with and your items will sell.

3. Completely revamp the entire gear/crafting system. Either make almost all objects modifiable or all objects not modifiable, similar to some earlier builds of beta I played in.

[Alek_Ebonstar]

Ok, I'll probably get flamed for this... Star Wars Galaxies...need I say more? The crafting system was unreal! you could play the game just to craft, build your own shop and completely run your virtual store right down to hiring shopkeepers/vendors. Almost no gear dropped in the game all loot was trash loot or junk. I wish someone would have the whoo-ha's to do something like that again. I remember traveling from Tatooine to Corellia just to buy a new carbine...then I had to trek way out into the woods to find the guy's shop. SWG was by far the most immersive mmo when it came to depth of crafting. It seems like that aspect of the game is an after thought now. I pray Bioware does something innovative

[Kellindell]

The worst part about this is, if anyone remembers they told us when the crew skill system was released that unlike other MMOs crafting would matter in this game, and you could be the premier crafter on your server that people seek out to get recipes blah blah blah.

 

Of all things they over sold and under delivered, to me that was the worst one.

 

 

At least not for Synthweaving. I have to ask, and would LOVE some kind of Developer feedback. Why is crafted armor such garbage? For example, I spend a FORTUNE..and I mean a FORTUNE on REing green level 49 armor recipes.

 

First...If I want to get a certain version, like the Redoubt version off the Defensive based green recipes, I sometimes have to get all 3 blue versions as I get it last....

 

Ok...I can live with that.

 

Second, when I finally get the blue version, it adds a little armor and 1 stat. No more end/str/etc. The gear is still decent, but not great, especially when it costs me a ton of time and money to even get the recipe. Then, no one wants to buy it, certainly not at a price that allows me to come close to even recouping my investment, let alone profit, because they keep 1 piece of orange gear forever and remod and reslot it, or get TONS of cheap and easy mods/armorings/enhancements CONSTANTLY from quests, commendation vendors, etc. These allow orange armor to stay equal to any blue recipe I can make through 50.

 

Ok, I COULD live with that if there was some final payoff to all my massive investment and dedication to crafting...

 

Third, I get the special drop Paragon level 50 heavy armor recipes (as an example), which take a TON of materials to make (6 pieces of Ciridium which costs 1000+ a unit since it can only be gotten from purple 340 skill missions or 1 or 2 UWT missions at a time that yield TWO or maybe FOUR pieces at best at a time). I make a crapload of those and RE them until I get the Redoubt version I want (of course 3rd one I get after spending several hundred thousand in materials). It gives me the purple Redoubt. I then RE the purple redoubt version, which I spend nearly 800,000 in materials to get ONE recipe. The purple redoubt version take SIX ciridium and FOUR mandalorian iron EACH time, plus the t6 green mats. THEN, when I FINALLY get a success...I get the POS General version, which adds presence. GREAT! Not at all useful or marketable as end game armor...PLUS...theres MORE!

 

Does it add any more armor? NOPE. Stays at 124 armor rating. The NEW UPGRADED RE that cost me damn near 1 million credits to learn, adds some Presence...and THAT IS IT! No more armor even though it "upgrades", no more end/str/etc...NOTHING. Not to mention the new recipe requires 8 Mandolorian Iron and 6 Ciridium, so over 100k to make 1 piece. So, pretty much unless I get the fortune to get the Veracity armor recipe, which is the only real useful one for tanks, and there is pretty much a similar situation for other pieces for different classes, it is a waste.

 

BUT WAIT!...theres more!

 

Add to that the level 49 RE I did on a blue that yielded a purple General version after MUCH REing...and after MUCH MORE REing to get Veracity...I SUCCEED! Only to be told that I "Already know that schematic"! YES! I can get a purple RE success and get the SAME PIECE OF **** recipe again!! That makes sense!

 

After all this, I just go PvP for a while, and complete a few PvP quests, and get a few bags...and get out of 9 bags....a 136 rating pvp lightsaber, an implant, a chestpiece, bracers, and gloves. Oh, and all the armor that took MINIMAL effort has 136 rating! YES! Screw that garbage level 50 dropped recipe, DOUBLE RE, million credit and dozens of hours investment armor...when you can get PvP armor that has MORE armor, EQUAL end/str type stats, similar defense and loses 1 stat like absorption in exchange for expertise. Now, for PURE min/maxers is the expertise a total waste for tanking..YES. However, the effort/value is nowhere NEAR balanced.

 

So, I ask..1) Why can I get the SAME recipe on an RE success and get NOTHING? Considering the effort involved, would it kill them to allow you to always get a new recipe?

 

2) Why can I RE a recipe and get a supposed "upgrade" that has NO MORE armor, NO MORE end/str/etc, NO MORE defense/absorption etc, and just adds ONE stat?

 

Seems to me that dropped recipe blue armor that is RE'd TWICE (which can and does usually take about 10-25 tries the first time and 10-20 tries the next time) should get visibly better EACH incarnation. I mean, isn;t that supposed to be the big REWARD for being a hard core dedicated crafter that was discussed? A simple system that rewards serious crafters with the ability to make serious gear? As it stands now, NOTHING I make is worth the effort when compared to the pathetic ease with which one can get pvp gear that is comparable or better, or orange gear with new mods/armor/enhancement replacements every few levels with almost NO investment.

 

Seems like this is like other MMOs, where crafting armor (and other gear) will be a useless waste of time other than for a small handful of a couple of cherished recipes that everyone will want you to make, and otherwise your skills are trash and useless. Not a robust system where crafted gear is valuable across all levels and in demand and tbhe best most dedicated crafters make superlative gear that is on par with basic raid gear and raids yield even better recipes/materials. What do we have now? Oh sure, I guess I could make Rakata gear after raids...and then? Can I RE it? No one is sure, but assuming it follows the pattern, I could..and what? Raid 50 times to RE one recipe? So that it gains nothing but some defense? Also, honestly, the Rakata gear is not even that great.

 

Overall, I am just SORELY disappointed. I mean, I am ok with the massive investment and difficulty involved in getting recipes, IF the end yield was worth it. Alas, the yield is total garbage and NOWHERE near the investment. Crafting, at least for armor, is worthless.

 

EDIT--Why do basic PvP bags gives SECOND tier PvP gear (rating 136 gear)? Seems that they should give Tier 1 gear as a substitute for using the t1 tokens you get in the bags, not a complete tier increase as well.

[KiranK]

Crafting definitely sucks at max level. In fact, I'd go as far to say it's down right useless. What do I have to sell on the GTN? Stuff for people's alts? That's total and utter BS. I can't even sell my rakata belts and bracers because they're BoP. What is the purpose of that? It essentially means I should only bother getting 2 biometric crystal alloys just to make my own 2 pieces. What am I gonna do with any others? Give them to my companions? Wow, time well spent. The crafting system at end game needs a complete overhaul. Right now it's dirt.

[Sky_walkerPL]

I can't even sell my rakata belts and bracers because they're BoP. What is the purpose of that? It essentially means I should only bother getting 2 biometric crystal alloys just to make my own 2 pieces. What am I gonna do with any others? Give them to my companions? Wow, time well spent. The crafting system at end game needs a complete overhaul. Right now it's dirt.

 

Hehe, well said.

And to make fact worse - the best schematics are bind on pickup. So even if you happen to get random unneeded schematic in your group and would like to earns some money from it, if not crafting itself - there's no chance cause it's bind on pickup too.

 

Anyway: Additional topic about Bind on Pickups - feel free to voice support

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Nippon]

Im in whole hearted agreement with you. CRAFTING IN GENERAL is utter crap. On top of being forced to RE greens to blues to purple, I have crew missions that take 2k to go on, can only send one member out at a time for fabric, and have to wait an hour to get the mats back. This MIGHT yeild enough mats to make ONE blue item, which I then have to wait a half hour to craft, only to MAYBE (and probably NOT LIKELY) get a schematic for a purple. This means that, at lvl 50, I have to stay logged in for ten hours just to craft a handful of blues in order to get anywhere and lets face it, I have better things to do.

 

Fixed..

[Notsensible]

To be honest, it depends on how your servers economy is. At 50, crafting except maybe Biochem, is next to useless CURRENTLY. It nets you chump change compared to just spending an hour doing daily quests. Pre-50 is where the economy part comes in. I make decent profits for sub-50 making artifact tier equips/mods and selling them on the GTN. And yes, this is including the cost it is to acquire the mats and even those used trying to learn the artifact recipes. There just aren't a lot of people willing to put the time and effort into making these things, so people like me are of the few that do.

 

Expect a major buff to production crew skills somewhere along the way, although whether or not it also ends up buffing Biochem is unknown (thus making it still the most useful). It's up to you whether or not that much matters to you.

 

Generally speaking, I enjoy the somewhat unique form of crafting in this game. That enjoyment is about on-par to profiting. Every MMO I play, I need to have crafts leveled.

[KusterJr]

As a rather new character, I find this all a bit depressing. I'm not a hard-core crafter, but I enjoy making entertaining items from time to time. When I played WoW, I became an engineer purely for the Flying Machines and the Chopper (which I admittedly never got, as I never made it past lvl 74). I think it would be great if we had some sort of vanity item in this game. In fact, we may already - our ships. We've all got one, and we obviously spend a bit of time there. I think it would be great if we could further personalize them and then show them off somehow. Armstech people and armormech people could upgrade weapons and armor on the ship (respectively), and then maybe display crafted stuff on the walls inside. Cybertech people could make shield upgrades and little consoles for games or jukeboxes or the like inside. Synthweavers could make... epic seat covers? Or maybe tapestries? Idk. Obviously the idea needs some work, but I would be more than happy to unload a ridiculous amount of creds on pimping my ride, and I can't be the only one... (or maybe I can. We'll see.)

 

Anyway, thanks for the info everyone, and I hope as the game is updated and evolves, they can make crafting more worthwhile. Tootles.

[Notsensible]

As a rather new character, I find this all a bit depressing. I'm not a hard-core crafter, but I enjoy making entertaining items from time to time. When I played WoW, I became an engineer purely for the Flying Machines and the Chopper (which I admittedly never got, as I never made it past lvl 74). I think it would be great if we had some sort of vanity item in this game. In fact, we may already - our ships. We've all got one, and we obviously spend a bit of time there. I think it would be great if we could further personalize them and then show them off somehow. Armstech people and armormech people could upgrade weapons and armor on the ship (respectively), and then maybe display crafted stuff on the walls inside. Cybertech people could make shield upgrades and little consoles for games or jukeboxes or the like inside. Synthweavers could make... epic seat covers? Or maybe tapestries? Idk. Obviously the idea needs some work, but I would be more than happy to unload a ridiculous amount of creds on pimping my ride, and I can't be the only one... (or maybe I can. We'll see.)

 

Anyway, thanks for the info everyone, and I hope as the game is updated and evolves, they can make crafting more worthwhile. Tootles.

 

I support that games bit from cybertech. Having that chess game (like in the movie) in your ship might be kind of fun, and in a creepy way, promote people to get inside your van... spaceship.

 

The game is still very new, the sort of things that people want only come from well established games. Regardless of how many subscribers they may or may not have, every MMO can instantly go belly up if they don't plan accordingly in conducting themselves. That being said, they need to prioritize some other things before adding fun activities/actions. Those things that you suggested are only the request of few, the many want other things. Some crucial (bug fixes), some not as much (pvp nerfs, aka F'ing up pve). Either way, those 2 are the most prevalent cries, adding fun into other things, like your suggestion, won't happen for a while unfortunately.

[Pureblade]

SWTOR crafting is basically a result of conflicting requirements. It will never be compelling or enjoyable to the masses until such time as they fix the conflicts, and even then it will only appease one of two camps.

 

There's two ways to look at crafting in an MMO:

 

1.) As a profession to make money

2.) As a method of advancement for a character's ability/power/status.

 

I'll call them camp1 and camp2.

 

Camp1 is easily defined and demonstrated by Eve Online. It's a system that hinges around a forced consumption of goods (Players primarily produce the best and most items) and a forced restrictions/limitations on production (Blueprints are resources which are limited and tradeable). It's a rational system, and it works. Unfortunately, for it to work you have to keep in mind that not everyone wins. The market is only interested in certain items, and only those people who can provide those items are in a position to make any decent money. That said, if you're into crafting as a profession, it's a compelling system as it's modeled after a system we're all comfortable with - reality. To some extent, the early MMOs were actually in this vein. For Camp1 to work, you also need market tools to make it more viable.

 

Camp2 is more loosely defined and ,for the sake of identifiably, I'll just call it WoW-post vanilla. Your crafting skill is basically a secondary (or tertiary) XP bar. As you level your crafting up instead of unlocking new powers you buy at a class trainer, you unlock new items to buy/learn from your crafting trainer. Since this is on a personal level, these items need to be BoP. (You can't trade your powers to someone else, nor can you trade your items). It's on par with the FPS XP system (like Modern Warfare) where you get new guns as you level up.

 

In a completely pure world, camp1 is all BoE and camp2 is all BoP.

 

It's safe to say that camp1 can't work in SWTOR. Gear is given out all over, and without restriction or limitation. The only way to make professions would be a WAR system of consumables combined with Eve's BP restriction; which has proven to not be enjoyable for crafter or consumer. So, ruling out camp1, leads to a focus on camp2.

 

Again, the problem is, someone at Bioware made (and extremely poorly thought out) requirement that "crafting shouldn't be required".

 

Crafting is basically viewed as one of three "options", in regards to PvP, PvE, and Crafting. So, in some Bioware designer's mind, it made sense that doing PvP results in you excelling an PvP (Better PvP focused gear), doing PvE results in you excelling at PvE (PvE focused gear), and doing crafting results in... Nobody got that far. They just hacked the current system up and called it a day. You can't have "Crafting focused gear". It serves no purpose. There's no competition in a Camp2 system, so what would you be doing with it?

 

The only purpose on crafting is to produce items to excel at combat, or to provide vanity (excel at social if you will). Right now the social aspects of crafting (customs) are terrible. They're BoE, and they're just recolors (at best) or the exact same as items you can get in-game.

 

Making gear for alts is great. It's a nice way to have non-combat experiences in the game and in some cases to build social webs. It's just not a good foundation to base a part of your game that's generally important to many MMO players. To some extent, you can blame DAoC and especially the later incarnations of WoW for making Camp2-style crafting, where people feel it's now a secondary XP bar. One way or another though, I think the general consensus at this point is "I should craft to level to fulfill my character" and for that to happen, there needs to be a personally-compelling reason to craft, which their currently isn't, because Bioware has stated in writing that there should be no in-game bonus for crafting that you can't just get through some other method. People will rarely choose the irrational option (which in this case is to spend a huge amount of time and resources/credits to level a skill that results in no gain).

 

As an aside, Reverse Engineering is basically a really poorly thought out Camp1 feature, stuck in a Camp2 system; which is why it's so terrible. The idea is to create false limitations by using serendipity to limit production options. Unfortunately, it's as poorly implemented as it was conceived. If there was a fixed limitation (you're allowed to randomly get one item per level) it would work marginally, due to being enforced. As it is though, there's no limitation on production except for time and resource input. There is no skill or ability involved in the development or production capability. Just luck and sometimes patience. Since the system is OTHERWISE a Camp2 system, people just assume they have to crank through the crafting to "succeed" which means they're spending an inordinate amount of time and resources to produce.. nothing. Gear for alts basically, given the fact that the system was designed to deter people from trying to make everything to try to implement production limitations. So people get into the crafting skills and come to the realization "this system sucks".

 

TLDR (and no real news): Crafting in SWTOR is poorly thought out, and a direct result of conflicting designs and requirements. It will continue to be an eyesore until the requirements are made consistent.

 

My guess is they know this, knew it when they slapped this system together, and didn't really care to worry about it till an expansion.

 

I think this post pretty much complements mine nicely. I agree .

[KusterJr]

I support that games bit from cybertech. Having that chess game (like in the movie) in your ship might be kind of fun, and in a creepy way, promote people to get inside your van... spaceship.

 

The game is still very new, the sort of things that people want only come from well established games. Regardless of how many subscribers they may or may not have, every MMO can instantly go belly up if they don't plan accordingly in conducting themselves. That being said, they need to prioritize some other things before adding fun activities/actions. Those things that you suggested are only the request of few, the many want other things. Some crucial (bug fixes), some not as much (pvp nerfs, aka F'ing up pve). Either way, those 2 are the most prevalent cries, adding fun into other things, like your suggestion, won't happen for a while unfortunately.

 

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. I was just saying that it sounded kind of neat - although I'm still not sure what synthweavers would do...

[Olskl]

*bump* this needs to be addressed. I'm disappointed I even bothered with the crew skills. I should have way more credits then I do, but I fell victim to an unrewarding credit sink.

[oredith]

*bump* this needs to be addressed. I'm disappointed I even bothered with the crew skills. I should have way more credits then I do, but I fell victim to an unrewarding credit sink.

 

The irony is, without viable crafting, what's there to spend CR on?

[KiranK]

The irony is, without viable crafting, what's there to spend CR on?

 

Repairs from wiping in a raid.

[Rife]

Yeah I would love to see some actual developer feedback on this. I miss Vanguards crafting, or even EQ2, both had great crafting (VG was awesome crafting) and even had actual crafting developers that regularly posted in crafting forums to keep people informed.

 

OMG Vanguard Crafting was ****** AMAZING... I still have the game installed on my comp, i JUST might resub a month to craft a few things

[Fubbik]

Fix:

 

1) Remove the "You already know this recipe" bug (please don't say it's intended, that would not sit pretty...)

 

2) Exchange Centurion and Champion gear from bags, i.e. either get tokens for Champ or a piece of Cent gear (honestly, who the h*** designed it to work like it does now, making Cent gear obsolete and Champ gear abundant ?)

 

3) Make crafted purples considerably better for PvE than Champ gear, especially critted ones.

 

4) Remove any possibility of using PvP gear to build PvE gear that blows crafted out of the water.

 

5) Increase the cost of mods at vendors for L1-49, adjust the items at daily vendors to be in line with crafting (i.e. slightly worse and/or different)

 

6) Increase base stats on items that are REd, only adding a stat is too much of a gamble and much less useful mostly.

 

7) Fix RE for Vibroknives and Scatterguns (and similar bugs for other profs)

 

Feel free to add/comment, there are tons more that needs to change to get some sort of balance to the crafting in this game, especially at L50.

[Eortotai]

Ok, I'll probably get flamed for this... Star Wars Galaxies...need I say more? The crafting system was unreal! you could play the game just to craft, build your own shop and completely run your virtual store right down to hiring shopkeepers/vendors. Almost no gear dropped in the game all loot was trash loot or junk. I wish someone would have the whoo-ha's to do something like that again. I remember traveling from Tatooine to Corellia just to buy a new carbine...then I had to trek way out into the woods to find the guy's shop. SWG was by far the most immersive mmo when it came to depth of crafting. It seems like that aspect of the game is an after thought now. I pray Bioware does something innovative

 

I don't flame you sir, I commend you.

 

This would be absolutely amazing. If ever they come out with more classes, it should be a crafter for each faction. Then within that class, there would be Crafting Trees so that you'd have to specialize in one type of crafting of your choosing.

 

The next part is player housing/cities.

[zerobounds]

I don't get the impression that they intended for crafting to be so obligating. Generally I just take a few seconds to send 3 companions on what i want them to do and go back to playing the game. Hardly requires any thinking at all.

 

One of things I like is that you can craft the recipe as much as you want and that makes it really handy for outfitting your new characters. If people could craft legendary (50+) gear easily then it would be flooding the market all over the place by people that like staring at the crafting options 10 hours a day instead of playing a game.

 

I would rather see it be a crafted item that requires mats which you can only get from FPs/ops or that are loot items from a nightmare mode or something. Having the best gear at an open vendor just doesn't feel 'legendary', especially when everybody else has it. I think that would create more incentive to do those modes and keep that armor very rare.

[Eortotai]

I don't get the impression that they intended for crafting to be so obligating. Generally I just take a few seconds to send 3 companions on what i want them to do and go back to playing the game. Hardly requires any thinking at all.

 

One of things I like is that you can craft the recipe as much as you want and that makes it really handy for outfitting your new characters. If people could craft legendary (50+) gear easily then it would be flooding the market all over the place by people that like staring at the crafting options 10 hours a day instead of playing a game.

 

I would rather see it be a crafted item that requires mats which you can only get from FPs/ops or that are loot items from a nightmare mode or something. Having the best gear at an open vendor just doesn't feel 'legendary', especially when everybody else has it. I think that would create more incentive to do those modes and keep that armor very rare.

 

That is true, but the fundamental problem with crafting in this game is that the gear you're most likel going to be running the FPs/Ops in is most likely already better than anything you can make with the materials you are going to get from those FPs/Ops.

 

As you said, it's great for outfitting companions with greens or maybe blues if you feel like it, but that's about where the usefulness ends.

[SgtSplacker]

Reeeeelax guys it's still early, wait for it... wait for it.

[Pureblade]

Fix:

 

1) Remove the "You already know this recipe" bug (please don't say it's intended, that would not sit pretty...)

 

2) Exchange Centurion and Champion gear from bags, i.e. either get tokens for Champ or a piece of Cent gear (honestly, who the h*** designed it to work like it does now, making Cent gear obsolete and Champ gear abundant ?)

 

3) Make crafted purples considerably better for PvE than Champ gear, especially critted ones.

 

4) Remove any possibility of using PvP gear to build PvE gear that blows crafted out of the water.

 

5) Increase the cost of mods at vendors for L1-49, adjust the items at daily vendors to be in line with crafting (i.e. slightly worse and/or different)

 

6) Increase base stats on items that are REd, only adding a stat is too much of a gamble and much less useful mostly.

 

7) Fix RE for Vibroknives and Scatterguns (and similar bugs for other profs)

 

Feel free to add/comment, there are tons more that needs to change to get some sort of balance to the crafting in this game, especially at L50.

 

A pretty good list if you ask me.

[Lady_Alyria]

Fix:

 

1) Remove the "You already know this recipe" bug (please don't say it's intended, that would not sit pretty...)

 

Well to inform you that you already know the schematic took time and coding, if they didn't mean for you to be able to roll onto one you already have they would have never coded a response to inform you that you had done exactly that.

[TrevNYC]

Ok, I'll probably get flamed for this... Star Wars Galaxies...need I say more? The crafting system was unreal! you could play the game just to craft, build your own shop and completely run your virtual store right down to hiring shopkeepers/vendors. Almost no gear dropped in the game all loot was trash loot or junk. I wish someone would have the whoo-ha's to do something like that again. I remember traveling from Tatooine to Corellia just to buy a new carbine...then I had to trek way out into the woods to find the guy's shop. SWG was by far the most immersive mmo when it came to depth of crafting.

 

That was one of the biggest reasons why I didn't play that game, and why I'd leave this one if they did the same thing here. There's plenty of room to deliver on the promise of making crafting important without making the game basically revolve around it.

[Pureblade]

I enjoyed SWG crafting a ton as well...it was really innovative. Now, I personally prefer a world where crafters are the main source of stuff...its more realistic and it allows for people specialize in that sphere of the game. However, no developer wants to do this anymore since for some reason all they care about is catering to the raiding group and PvP groups. Now, for the record, I do BOTH...but I also love to craft. Is it so hard to make a game that has indepth and detailed valuable systems for all 3? They are NOT mutually exclusive.