There is no value to being a hard core dedicated crafter in this game

[Pureblade]

Well I was referring to Synth because I know it firsthand, although I have been told in conversations with others that most other crafts like Armor and Arms are pretty much the same.

[oredith]

Well I was referring to Synth because I know it firsthand, although I have been told in conversations with others that most other crafts like Armor and Arms are pretty much the same.

lets put it this way.

 

HYPOTHETICALLY, if you had infinite resources, time, and luck, with synthweave, you could potentially get an item that is better than what's available via hardmode FP drops.

 

that hypothetical does not apply to armstech. no amount of luck, crit, etc, will get you something better than what is readily farmable from flashpoints (not even ops), or readily purchased via 8 daily commendations.

[Pureblade]

Well, I suppose if we refer to the Rakata recipes and I could RE them forever, they SHOULD be pretty good, although I have not done that, PLUS if they follow the pattern of everythign else, they won't get any better really after being RE'd aside from adding 1 stat per incarnation.

[TERRAFIRMA]

Whole heartily agree...

 

I've been going hard at Syth attempting to get my green schematic up to crit (blue) up to endowment then up to superior... on a set of level 49 gear (light - force master)

 

It's the last set of green's before lvl 50 (which is absolute BS) can't see why we cannot craft level 50 purples to sell - I recall BW saying "if your a hardcore crafter, people of your server will be knocking on your door" - yeah maybe at level 20 but not at 50... seems like crafting stops after level 49 apart from a couple of pieces of Rakata for yourself... sensational..!!

 

I like the concept of the oranges but not at the cost of the crafter's reward for effort of REing everything...

 

Now it just seems like a huge money sink..

 

Hope this gets tweaked a great deal more to make it more profitable and encourages crafters to go that extra few REing to get the best of the best and be able to onsell all the effort

 

here's hoping

[Aricus]

The problem I find with sythweaving is that you cannot farm the mats from mobs unlike the other crafts. This problem makes it much harder and costly for me to acquire better schematics from REing.

 

But to be honest I am easily making 100-200k a day from selling level 49 purple/blue gear from my armormech. I actually foresee more $$ per day once I get more desirable purple schematics.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Aricus

[swooshien]

amen. i really puked alot when i noticed bioware simply copied WoWs basic crafting system and added some great money sinks and time sinks to crafting only to discover that the best crafted gear isnt even close to the worst gear that drops in any operation. at least in wow you could use something you craft.

 

oh wait, i forgot the rakata gear that you can craft that if it crits gives you an agument slot and then in fact is useable at endgame. but its only the rakata pieces, anything else is completely worthless. every single modification(mods, armorings, barrels, hilts and enhancements) that you can craft is compeltely worthless, every single REd item is completely worthless, so besides the rakata stuff you need biometric crystal alloy for, and the grenades and biochem stuff, EVERYTHING Is compeltely worthless. even items you can craft with alien data cubes, which are more rarer and harder to obtain than crystal alloys, are worthless, and worse than the rakata pieces you can craft with biometric crystal alloy.

 

the whole crafting system is a joke, and the bioware guys that are responsible for this are totally stupid in my view. and yeah i dont give a fukking **** for any infraction i get for posting the absolute truth.

 

 

edit: btw they should sticky this thread. so new people know they shouldnt waste their precious time into crafting worthless junk.

Edited January 25, 2012 by swooshien

[oredith]

oh wait, i forgot the rakata gear that you can craft that if it crits gives you an agument slot and then in fact is useable at endgame. but its only the rakata pieces, anything else is completely worthless. every single modification(mods, armorings, barrels, hilts and enhancements) that you can craft is compeltely worthless, every single REd item is completely worthless, so besides the rakata stuff you need biometric crystal alloy for, and the grenades and biochem stuff, EVERYTHING Is compeltely worthless. even items you can craft with alien data cubes, which are more rarer and harder to obtain than crystal alloys, are worthless, and worse than the rakata pieces you can craft with biometric crystal alloy.

what is this Rakata craftable you speak of?

 

oh, something that other crafting classes can make, but not armstech... -_-

 

you're QQ'ing about how your corvette isn't a ferrari, while i'm driving a pinto here.

Edited January 25, 2012 by oredith

[Redheartwolf]

My reply is the same as I put in the pvp forum...

 

PVP gear kills crafters | Today , 04:40 PM

 

Edit/Delete Message Report Post

I understand the need hard core pvp'rs will have to flame me and I don't mind. Coming from a PVP-RP server I have my fair share of pvp in war zones and in open world.

 

The only thing I have to say about this whole pvp gear is this, it kills the crafting aspect of the game. I feel that crafted armor should be better (even a little) then any other vendor armor. It promotes economy growth, it give those that love to craft a reason to do so, it gives a variety of looks and stats, it also forces the pvp realm to use their minds in order to learn what is the best armor for them in their class.

 

I just don't understand why the developers pushed out this pvp armor...now everyone wants to have this armor and on a pvp server, if you don't have it, you wont win even out of war zones. I think the game has a WONDERFUL crafting mechanic and I like to work on getting the high end schematics, but if I do and it still isnt as good as the pvp gear, why keep trying?

 

I forsee the end of crafting with this or at least a big decline in this. I think people will do it just for the joy of crafting. I think SWG had the perfect PVP mechanics before the Great Publish 9 nerf, people that pvp had to think and react to the moment. but that was then and this is now.

 

My ranting is now complete. But honestly, what do you think this pvp armor and weapons will do to the crafting community?

[Pherdnut]

wait,your REing purps?

i thought you couldnt get an upgrade from a purple

 

If you get a recipe that starts at blue you can RE a tier 1 purple and then a tier 2 purple from that. Not sure what the point of that is. It only leads to confusion and there are plenty of green recipes with extra stats on them. Anyway, Tier 1 is the stuff like critical and redoubt. Then Tier 2 will get you stuff like Supremacy, etc... It's in the stickied thread at the top.

[Pherdnut]

Why do so many people complain but still assert that raid drops should have the best gear? Isn't crafting more effort? I'm cool with raid-dependencies (e.g. mat drops) but crafting should give you superior options and not just silly little marginal ones either. Not in every category maybe but crafting needs to deliver something other approaches to acquiring gear don't given the discrepancy in time/resources invested.

[Umpire]

Why do so many people complain but still assert that raid drops should have the best gear? Isn't crafting more effort? I'm cool with raid-dependencies (e.g. mat drops) but crafting should give you superior options and not just silly little marginal ones either. Not in every category maybe but crafting needs to deliver something other approaches to acquiring gear don't given the discrepancy in time/resources invested.

 

Look, you're playing the wrong game.

Raiding/High End PVP is where you get the top slotted gear. Raid mats are needed to create items that are almost raid quality. This is to cater to casuals who don't ever raid at all. Besides that, crafting is kinda useless besides biochem, since it saves you tons of credits by giving you reusable consumables. Crafting professions just aren't gigantic in this game and that's just how it works.

[Jandoss]

what game ever rewards you for being a hardcore dedicated crafter?

 

EVE online

[Majestic-]

Bump:

Having read this thread I understand my frustration with crafting in this game. I have to say my feeling is the same. Lets keep bumping this thread maybe the devs will smell what we are cooking.

[knoes]

No Chance!

 

Dev´s Ignore Skill 400/400

[_Flin_]

@OP: I feel your pain. When I think about how angry I was about my "you already know that" message, when it was only 2 Level 6 UT mats that got wasted for 47 tries...

 

I feel for you. And this needs to be addressed. However there are hardly any comments about crafting at all from the devs. Because they think that crafting is really useless and noone cares. I just wonder what all the people are doing at the GTN then.

[Lady_Alyria]

Look, you're playing the wrong game.

Raiding/High End PVP is where you get the top slotted gear. Raid mats are needed to create items that are almost raid quality. This is to cater to casuals who don't ever raid at all. Besides that, crafting is kinda useless besides biochem, since it saves you tons of credits by giving you reusable consumables. Crafting professions just aren't gigantic in this game and that's just how it works.

 

Which would be fine and dandy if that's what we were told before we bought the game. Instead they went on and on about how useful their crafting system would be to a player. Crafting was the one and only thing I asked about when deciding to buy this game.

[MAFIAxMaverick]

Basically all I did with synth was get it to 400. Made my rakata bracers and belts till the procced an augment slot then got my Biochem back up to 400 so I could use all the rakata stuff that I had made when I got it to 400 the first time.

[ninjashadowdark]

From the first day of early game access I quickly levelled up cybertech and managed to make around 2 mill by producing the various earpieces and ship upgrades.

 

I now have around 1/2 mill left after levelling armourtech to 400 and tryng on both cyber and armour to get purple schematics. I think ive done pretty well in that I can now make around 10 purple items.

 

There are a number of problems with the crafting system

 

1). Materials take too long to acquire

2). So there expensive

3). Primary stats of items dont tend to change when going from green->blue->purple they just an extra stat you probably dont really care too much about

4). As mats are expensive you have to price the purples quite high to make it worthwile

5). PVP items are relitivly easy to get vs the price to buy the inferior purples

 

Some suggested changes

 

1). Schematic drops from raids should be single use, i.e. give it to a guild m8 and he can craft only one for you and no more.

2). Raid gear from ops and hm fp's should be better than best crafted, then comes best crafted and then only slightly behind and weighted to pvp is pvp items

3). Increase the primary stats a bit when going up from green->blue->t1 purple->t2 purple

4). Put in set bonuses it for armour sets as its hard enough at the moment to get more than 2 or 3 pieces of the same armour

 

At the moment I am still sending my companions off on missions and making the odd piece to place on the ah.

I'm also looking at the ah for material bargins but mostly the mats to make a purple cost 50k plus its almost not worth it.

So until some changes are made only dabbling in crafting, here's hoping something will be done soon.

 

lol pvp purple cham armor is easy to get yeah right i never got one pice from the bags . wrong

[oredith]

lol pvp purple cham armor is easy to get yeah right i never got one pice from the bags . wrong

 

RNG is random.. imagine that.

 

my guildie got 5 tokens on his first turn in (5 bags).

 

me, on the other hand, have only had 2 tokens, of the same piece.. -_-

 

regardless, crafting, unless you're biochem, doesn't seem to have any use in game right now.

[rigormortua]

I am of the same opinion. something really needs to bedone with the current crafting system. The old SWG was the most variable system that I have seen in a MMO something along that. the games are suppose to progress learning what worked and adapt to that. IMHO..

[LuckyKnight]

The major problem with synthweaving (along with most of the other professions) is no viability at endgame. This needs to be fixed/improved. However, for leveling up it's fine. As a shadow tank I consistently had blue armor that was better than the overwhelming majority of armor I could get in other ways. Once I hit around 35-40 I was also able to start crafting and selling purples to the point that I am currently making a nice income from this. So did I sink 6 figures into it on the way up and in getting purples, sure, but I now have ~40 lvl 9-39 purples for sale that bring in a one to two hundred thousand credits every 2 days.

[Pureblade]

Well, SOME kind of Developer comments on crafting would be nice. Unfortunately, I agree with the smart "Dev ignore skill 400/400" because it is pretty clear they have not said two words about crafting or addressed what appears to be a pretty large discontent on these forums. I mean, where else do people go to voice their opinions about the game they pay for?

[MorgonKara]

I have Synthweaving/Archeology/Underworld Trading as well and it was pretty good while leveling up. I've used it to make gear for my Force User companion & my Juggernaut and it's worked out well so far. I'm probably going to keep it if nothing else but to make gear for my alts and to save up to make the Rakata stuff.

 

I read the entire OP and you bring up some good points. The amount of time and resources used in Reverse Engineering to get Artifact recipes seems out of proportion with what it takes to get Champion Bags or loot drops. I know that Champ PvP gear isn't optimal for PvE, but so far it's superior to anything I can craft (except maybe for the BOP Rakata stuff).

 

I don't like the redundancy in Reverse Engineering either, if I get a successful RE roll I would like a new recipe, not, "You already know that schematic". If you consider it only takes loot drops/daily to make crafted gear obsolete, it doesn't seem right -but what can you do?

 

I'm hoping there is more to it that I haven't discovered yet.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Wraeththu]

SWTOR crafting is basically a result of conflicting requirements. It will never be compelling or enjoyable to the masses until such time as they fix the conflicts, and even then it will only appease one of two camps.

 

There's two ways to look at crafting in an MMO:

 

1.) As a profession to make money

2.) As a method of advancement for a character's ability/power/status.

 

I'll call them camp1 and camp2.

 

Camp1 is easily defined and demonstrated by Eve Online. It's a system that hinges around a forced consumption of goods (Players primarily produce the best and most items) and a forced restrictions/limitations on production (Blueprints are resources which are limited and tradeable). It's a rational system, and it works. Unfortunately, for it to work you have to keep in mind that not everyone wins. The market is only interested in certain items, and only those people who can provide those items are in a position to make any decent money. That said, if you're into crafting as a profession, it's a compelling system as it's modeled after a system we're all comfortable with - reality. To some extent, the early MMOs were actually in this vein. For Camp1 to work, you also need market tools to make it more viable.

 

Camp2 is more loosely defined and ,for the sake of identifiably, I'll just call it WoW-post vanilla. Your crafting skill is basically a secondary (or tertiary) XP bar. As you level your crafting up instead of unlocking new powers you buy at a class trainer, you unlock new items to buy/learn from your crafting trainer. Since this is on a personal level, these items need to be BoP. (You can't trade your powers to someone else, nor can you trade your items). It's on par with the FPS XP system (like Modern Warfare) where you get new guns as you level up.

 

In a completely pure world, camp1 is all BoE and camp2 is all BoP.

 

It's safe to say that camp1 can't work in SWTOR. Gear is given out all over, and without restriction or limitation. The only way to make professions would be a WAR system of consumables combined with Eve's BP restriction; which has proven to not be enjoyable for crafter or consumer. So, ruling out camp1, leads to a focus on camp2.

 

Again, the problem is, someone at Bioware made (and extremely poorly thought out) requirement that "crafting shouldn't be required".

 

Crafting is basically viewed as one of three "options", in regards to PvP, PvE, and Crafting. So, in some Bioware designer's mind, it made sense that doing PvP results in you excelling an PvP (Better PvP focused gear), doing PvE results in you excelling at PvE (PvE focused gear), and doing crafting results in... Nobody got that far. They just hacked the current system up and called it a day. You can't have "Crafting focused gear". It serves no purpose. There's no competition in a Camp2 system, so what would you be doing with it?

 

The only purpose on crafting is to produce items to excel at combat, or to provide vanity (excel at social if you will). Right now the social aspects of crafting (customs) are terrible. They're BoE, and they're just recolors (at best) or the exact same as items you can get in-game.

 

Making gear for alts is great. It's a nice way to have non-combat experiences in the game and in some cases to build social webs. It's just not a good foundation to base a part of your game that's generally important to many MMO players. To some extent, you can blame DAoC and especially the later incarnations of WoW for making Camp2-style crafting, where people feel it's now a secondary XP bar. One way or another though, I think the general consensus at this point is "I should craft to level to fulfill my character" and for that to happen, there needs to be a personally-compelling reason to craft, which their currently isn't, because Bioware has stated in writing that there should be no in-game bonus for crafting that you can't just get through some other method. People will rarely choose the irrational option (which in this case is to spend a huge amount of time and resources/credits to level a skill that results in no gain).

 

As an aside, Reverse Engineering is basically a really poorly thought out Camp1 feature, stuck in a Camp2 system; which is why it's so terrible. The idea is to create false limitations by using serendipity to limit production options. Unfortunately, it's as poorly implemented as it was conceived. If there was a fixed limitation (you're allowed to randomly get one item per level) it would work marginally, due to being enforced. As it is though, there's no limitation on production except for time and resource input. There is no skill or ability involved in the development or production capability. Just luck and sometimes patience. Since the system is OTHERWISE a Camp2 system, people just assume they have to crank through the crafting to "succeed" which means they're spending an inordinate amount of time and resources to produce.. nothing. Gear for alts basically, given the fact that the system was designed to deter people from trying to make everything to try to implement production limitations. So people get into the crafting skills and come to the realization "this system sucks".

 

TLDR (and no real news): Crafting in SWTOR is poorly thought out, and a direct result of conflicting designs and requirements. It will continue to be an eyesore until the requirements are made consistent.

 

My guess is they know this, knew it when they slapped this system together, and didn't really care to worry about it till an expansion.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Wraeththu

[Crohadan]

Crafting in general is worthless. I wouldn't expect anything soon, given that crafting generally seems to be low priority for BW (except nerfing biochem when it's good). Anyone who is truly serious about crafting has already been playing EVE Online since forever.

 

this except the eve part. fact is the entire mod and gear system was discussed at length. the crafting core of the beta testers began asking what the point in crafting was....this was in October.