There is no value to being a hard core dedicated crafter in this game

[Pureblade]

At least not for Synthweaving. I have to ask, and would LOVE some kind of Developer feedback. Why is crafted armor such garbage? For example, I spend a FORTUNE..and I mean a FORTUNE on REing green level 49 armor recipes.

 

First...If I want to get a certain version, like the Redoubt version off the Defensive based green recipes, I sometimes have to get all 3 blue versions as I get it last....

 

Ok...I can live with that.

 

Second, when I finally get the blue version, it adds a little armor and 1 stat. No more end/str/etc. The gear is still decent, but not great, especially when it costs me a ton of time and money to even get the recipe. Then, no one wants to buy it, certainly not at a price that allows me to come close to even recouping my investment, let alone profit, because they keep 1 piece of orange gear forever and remod and reslot it, or get TONS of cheap and easy mods/armorings/enhancements CONSTANTLY from quests, commendation vendors, etc. These allow orange armor to stay equal to any blue recipe I can make through 50.

 

Ok, I COULD live with that if there was some final payoff to all my massive investment and dedication to crafting...

 

Third, I get the special drop Paragon level 50 heavy armor recipes (as an example), which take a TON of materials to make (6 pieces of Ciridium which costs 1000+ a unit since it can only be gotten from purple 340 skill missions or 1 or 2 UWT missions at a time that yield TWO or maybe FOUR pieces at best at a time). I make a crapload of those and RE them until I get the Redoubt version I want (of course 3rd one I get after spending several hundred thousand in materials). It gives me the purple Redoubt. I then RE the purple redoubt version, which I spend nearly 800,000 in materials to get ONE recipe. The purple redoubt version take SIX ciridium and FOUR mandalorian iron EACH time, plus the t6 green mats. THEN, when I FINALLY get a success...I get the POS General version, which adds presence. GREAT! Not at all useful or marketable as end game armor...PLUS...theres MORE!

 

Does it add any more armor? NOPE. Stays at 124 armor rating. The NEW UPGRADED RE that cost me damn near 1 million credits to learn, adds some Presence...and THAT IS IT! No more armor even though it "upgrades", no more end/str/etc...NOTHING. Not to mention the new recipe requires 8 Mandolorian Iron and 6 Ciridium, so over 100k to make 1 piece. So, pretty much unless I get the fortune to get the Veracity armor recipe, which is the only real useful one for tanks, and there is pretty much a similar situation for other pieces for different classes, it is a waste.

 

BUT WAIT!...theres more!

 

Add to that the level 49 RE I did on a blue that yielded a purple General version after MUCH REing...and after MUCH MORE REing to get Veracity...I SUCCEED! Only to be told that I "Already know that schematic"! YES! I can get a purple RE success and get the SAME PIECE OF **** recipe again!! That makes sense!

 

After all this, I just go PvP for a while, and complete a few PvP quests, and get a few bags...and get out of 9 bags....a 136 rating pvp lightsaber, an implant, a chestpiece, bracers, and gloves. Oh, and all the armor that took MINIMAL effort has 136 rating! YES! Screw that garbage level 50 dropped recipe, DOUBLE RE, million credit and dozens of hours investment armor...when you can get PvP armor that has MORE armor, EQUAL end/str type stats, similar defense and loses 1 stat like absorption in exchange for expertise. Now, for PURE min/maxers is the expertise a total waste for tanking..YES. However, the effort/value is nowhere NEAR balanced.

 

So, I ask..1) Why can I get the SAME recipe on an RE success and get NOTHING? Considering the effort involved, would it kill them to allow you to always get a new recipe?

 

2) Why can I RE a recipe and get a supposed "upgrade" that has NO MORE armor, NO MORE end/str/etc, NO MORE defense/absorption etc, and just adds ONE stat?

 

Seems to me that dropped recipe blue armor that is RE'd TWICE (which can and does usually take about 10-25 tries the first time and 10-20 tries the next time) should get visibly better EACH incarnation. I mean, isn;t that supposed to be the big REWARD for being a hard core dedicated crafter that was discussed? A simple system that rewards serious crafters with the ability to make serious gear? As it stands now, NOTHING I make is worth the effort when compared to the pathetic ease with which one can get pvp gear that is comparable or better, or orange gear with new mods/armor/enhancement replacements every few levels with almost NO investment.

 

Seems like this is like other MMOs, where crafting armor (and other gear) will be a useless waste of time other than for a small handful of a couple of cherished recipes that everyone will want you to make, and otherwise your skills are trash and useless. Not a robust system where crafted gear is valuable across all levels and in demand and tbhe best most dedicated crafters make superlative gear that is on par with basic raid gear and raids yield even better recipes/materials. What do we have now? Oh sure, I guess I could make Rakata gear after raids...and then? Can I RE it? No one is sure, but assuming it follows the pattern, I could..and what? Raid 50 times to RE one recipe? So that it gains nothing but some defense? Also, honestly, the Rakata gear is not even that great.

 

Why do basic PvP bags gives SECOND tier PvP gear (rating 136 gear)? Seems that they should give Tier 1 gear as a substitute for using the t1 tokens you get in the bags, not a complete tier increase as well.

 

Overall, I am just SORELY disappointed. I mean, I am ok with the massive investment and difficulty involved in getting recipes, IF the end yield was worth it. Alas, the yield is total garbage and NOWHERE near the investment. Crafting, at least for armor, is worthless. I have to say that crafting is very important to me in a game, and after reading the mid-late beta reports about it I became VERY skeptical about the direction it was going to take in the game, but Bioware ASSURED us that it would be different and awesome and new and unlike anything previous and rewarding, etc etc. What do we get? A pile of recycled garbage that gets no attention or love, and is so damn important that if you review the "Dev Tracker" you would be hard pressed to find ONE post in the Crew Skills forum category.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Pureblade

[Consolidas]

Amen to that, I faced the exact same situation you did, but I stopped entirely when I got the General lvl49 chestpiece as an artifact and noticed I could get mod gear, put mods and have a better end result than what time I spent on Synthweaving from lvl38 to 50. (Or pvp items for that matter, as you mentionned)

[Badcookie]

Im in whole hearted agreement with you. Synthweaving is utter crap. On top of being forced to RE greens to blues to purple, I have crew missions that take 2k to go on, can only send one member out at a time for fabric, and have to wait an hour to get the mats back. This MIGHT yeild enough mats to make ONE blue item, which I then have to wait a half hour to craft, only to MAYBE (and probably NOT LIKELY) get a schematic for a purple. This means that, at lvl 50, I have to stay logged in for ten hours just to craft a handful of blues in order to get anywhere and lets face it, I have better things to do.

[Shakuul]

Crafting in general is worthless. I wouldn't expect anything soon, given that crafting generally seems to be low priority for BW (except nerfing biochem when it's good). Anyone who is truly serious about crafting has already been playing EVE Online since forever. Edited January 21, 2012 by Shakuul

[Livingston]

Yeah my main who is a Synthweaver, basically just feeds my Artifice alt, as it seems to be a complete waste of resources. At first i thought it was cool to be able to blue gear my belt and boots, etc, but I quickly realized it's not anywhere near worth it....

 

Worst crafting skill by far.

[Pureblade]

Yeah I would love to see some actual developer feedback on this. I miss Vanguards crafting, or even EQ2, both had great crafting (VG was awesome crafting) and even had actual crafting developers that regularly posted in crafting forums to keep people informed.

[Mal-Sharran]

I roll a JK main on the 14th of December, I visit all the trainers, then carefully review my codex to see which one would fit me best for the big push to 400. Well, surely Synthweaving, right? I'm a Force user, this will benefit me. I'll have the most current gear, so long as I stay on top of it, right? Then I drop over 200k to train all the 400 level schematics, and do I end up using any of them? LUL!

 

Maybe I can sell the thousands of crafting mats sitting in my ship storage to recoup...

Edited January 21, 2012 by Zilrota
removed language

[Pureblade]

Yeah this sounds about right. I too have hoarded mats but trying to RE some high level recipes has burned through them..and for nothing honestly.

[Ashivauto]

I agree w/ op but its not just synthweaving, its the same for armortech..... I dont even wear the armor I make cause my looted armor is better..... I mean my armor is higher on my crafted armor but all I have to do is mod out my looted armor and its better.....

 

This needs fix asap..... I can only make money off low lvl players....

[Lady_Alyria]

I'm a crafter first a adventurer second and usually only because leveling aids some way in my crafting. That being said, this game was not designed for my playstyle. There is nothing even close to immersion crafting. But I like the storylines and the warzones, so I can putt around and hope they improve crafting, but I doubt it will happen.

 

I should have known when someone was telling me about the game and the first question out my mouth was "how is the crafting system" and they cleared their throat before answering me.

 

For me it's not simply a matter of not being able to make the best stuff at 50. It's the time and money put into a craft skill not being worth the end result that bugs me.

[JekRendar]

Anyone who is truly serious about crafting has already been playing EVE Online since forever.

Or, you know, the Original Star Wars MMO, which had the most in-depth crafting system to date. In fact, the BW Devs often prided themselves about TOR's crafting (probably in an attempt to attract some of Galaxies' players here).

[bizznach]

wait,your REing purps?

i thought you couldnt get an upgrade from a purple

[Powerhowse]

Or, you know, the Original Star Wars MMO, which had the most in-depth crafting system to date. In fact, the BW Devs often prided themselves about TOR's crafting (probably in an attempt to attract some of Galaxies' players here).

 

It was pretty robust, but it limited player by if you were lucky enough to get a nice spawn on resources. Also the entire market was based off of crafted gear, making all the loot that you got pointless, save the jedi equipment.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Powerhowse

[grumpybobert]

While I agree, crafting does not yield the BEST items and could stand some improvement, this is only second to the reason I play SWTOR. Don't get me wrong I too love to craft and sell in MMO's but there is so much more going on that I don't get too caught up in just Crafting. As far as it goes SWTOR Crafting IMO, beats out Lord of the Rings, WOW and even my old favorite which got me started...Ultima Online! Here's looking for more in the future!

[theadjectivenoun]

Blame Gerog Zoeller.

[Shonus]

I'm a synthweaver and it's been great to me self-gearing-wise.

 

The blue crafted gear is better than the commendation mods you can get at that level. You can orange your way to 50 but on-level synth'd gear is always going to be better if it's at least blue. As a synthweaver I never bothered with commendations except to get mods for non-jedi companions, since the mats were reasonable.

In fact I had self-made purple robes that out-did commendation mods that I kept from about 30 to about 40 before finding any upgrades. And those upgrades were another set of gear I crafted.

 

I have two main problems with synthweaving:

1) the artifact luxury fabrics are VERY rare to me.

2) No profitable market. This is the biggest problem to me.

everyone prefers to orange their way up, despite the fact that I can make better gear for them, so there is little to no profitable GTN market for it. This makes sense for commendation mods, which are practically free, but part of the problem I think is that people don't realize crafitng IS better stat-wise. This is shown because I can sell a set of mediocre mods / enhance / armoring in a flash, and each one sells for more than 1 purple chest of the same level which is far superior.

 

It still has some use to me at 50, since there are the primevals I'm working on getting to [superior]. It's expensive but the stats are worth it to me. The next problem I foresee is when I have made myself full 128+ gear and the 140 wrist and belt, and then have no market to sell my crafts.

 

oh and regarding RE'ing purples:

all recipes can be REd across 2 tiers. If it doesn't say [superior], you can RE it again.

Green base items RE into blue and then into Purple [superior]

blue base items RE into purple, and then into purple [superior]

Critical superior items are [mastercraft]

 

there's a good guide here

 

Edit: The REing of purples may not apply to linear crafting like mods / enhancements, etc. take a look at the guide for more info.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Shonus

[Lyynk]

I completely agree with you. Crafting in this game is an extreme waste of time at 50 and it's why nearly my entire guild and most of my friends are Biochem now. It is the only crafting profession that offers anything useful at level 50.

 

I'm currently 400 armormech and I'm holding out leveling Biochem in hopes that Bioware does something for the other crafters. And ya, I miss SWG crafting also.

 

In regards to RE'n purples into [superior], that is also news to me, so thanks for that information.

[Jurisnoctis]

stuff

 

PvP items are not as good as PvE end game stuff, and oh no you can't get your top end PvE stuff from crafting? Good. It should either be hard or not possible altogether.

 

Gear comes from raiding. Good gear comes from crafting, not the best. I agree, it's not worth spending so much time REing and etc, and you shouldn't do it.

 

Why's it there then?

 

/shrug.

 

If it's BoE then there you go, if it's BoP that's pretty dumb, I'd ignore it and move on.

[JarrenBlake]

The issue is that you have two craftign extremes. Either gear is gotten from End game PVE/PVP or crafting. But which ever you do it negates the others. GAmes like EVE that are PVP based put emphasis on crafting cause folks will PVP without a gear reward. However PVE games or balance games will avoid making crafted gear the best cause it kills the entire point of PVE end game content.

 

Only PVE high craft games I know of was the original Star Wars and the original Final Fantasy MMO. Final Fantasy had a hugely robust craft system, but it made other parts of the game annoying. Resource spawning/low priority to end game raiding past the initial kill and so on.

 

The way I see it, BW will need to try and meld the systems together. A portion or part of gear comes from End game, then the improvement of that gear coems from crafting. Such as a T1 set that drops from raid, that high end crafters can turn into a T1.5. Taking what Wow did as Enchanting and putting such buffs into each individual crafting tree for their specific parts. Extra socket modifiers that craftes can make and sell and so forth.

[Tzian]

My OH has found the same problem with synthweaving, another guildy said he has given up on artifice cos he can get stuff from drops/vendors etc thats better

 

myself i am not quite 50 yet but everytime i get a level i check what i can make, and everytime its the same, vendor stuff/quest rewards/drops better than what i can make and im a cybertech, seems my prof is only good for grenades and speeders, oh and ship mods /sigh

 

i should have just taken the slicing and nowt else, but i love crafting in games normally its part of the whole things for me

[ninjashadowdark]

At least not for Synthweaving. I have to ask, and would LOVE some kind of Developer feedback. Why is crafted armor such garbage? For example, I spend a FORTUNE..and I mean a FORTUNE on REing green level 49 armor recipes.

 

First...If I want to get a certain version, like the Redoubt version off the Defensive based green recipes, I sometimes have to get all 3 blue versions as I get it last....

 

Ok...I can live with that.

 

Second, when I finally get the blue version, it adds a little armor and 1 stat. No more end/str/etc. The gear is still decent, but not great, especially when it costs me a ton of time and money to even get the recipe. Then, no one wants to buy it, certainly not at a price that allows me to come close to even recouping my investment, let alone profit, because they keep 1 piece of orange gear forever and remod and reslot it, or get TONS of cheap and easy mods/armorings/enhancements CONSTANTLY from quests, commendation vendors, etc. These allow orange armor to stay equal to any blue recipe I can make through 50.

 

Ok, I COULD live with that if there was some final payoff to all my massive investment and dedication to crafting...

 

Third, I get the special drop Paragon level 50 heavy armor recipes (as an example), which take a TON of materials to make (6 pieces of Ciridium which costs 1000+ a unit since it can only be gotten from purple 340 skill missions or 1 or 2 UWT missions at a time that yield TWO or maybe FOUR pieces at best at a time). I make a crapload of those and RE them until I get the Redoubt version I want (of course 3rd one I get after spending several hundred thousand in materials). It gives me the purple Redoubt. I then RE the purple redoubt version, which I spend nearly 800,000 in materials to get ONE recipe. The purple redoubt version take SIX ciridium and FOUR mandalorian iron EACH time, plus the t6 green mats. THEN, when I FINALLY get a success...I get the POS General version, which adds presence. GREAT! Not at all useful or marketable as end game armor...PLUS...theres MORE!

 

Does it add any more armor? NOPE. Stays at 124 armor rating. The NEW UPGRADED RE that cost me damn near 1 million credits to learn, adds some Presence...and THAT IS IT! No more armor even though it "upgrades", no more end/str/etc...NOTHING. Not to mention the new recipe requires 8 Mandolorian Iron and 6 Ciridium, so over 100k to make 1 piece. So, pretty much unless I get the fortune to get the Veracity armor recipe, which is the only real useful one for tanks, and there is pretty much a similar situation for other pieces for different classes, it is a waste.

 

BUT WAIT!...theres more!

 

Add to that the level 49 RE I did on a blue that yielded a purple General version after MUCH REing...and after MUCH MORE REing to get Veracity...I SUCCEED! Only to be told that I "Already know that schematic"! YES! I can get a purple RE success and get the SAME PIECE OF **** recipe again!! That makes sense!

 

After all this, I just go PvP for a while, and complete a few PvP quests, and get a few bags...and get out of 9 bags....a 136 rating pvp lightsaber, an implant, a chestpiece, bracers, and gloves. Oh, and all the armor that took MINIMAL effort has 136 rating! YES! Screw that garbage level 50 dropped recipe, DOUBLE RE, million credit and dozens of hours investment armor...when you can get PvP armor that has MORE armor, EQUAL end/str type stats, similar defense and loses 1 stat like absorption in exchange for expertise. Now, for PURE min/maxers is the expertise a total waste for tanking..YES. However, the effort/value is nowhere NEAR balanced.

 

So, I ask..1) Why can I get the SAME recipe on an RE success and get NOTHING? Considering the effort involved, would it kill them to allow you to always get a new recipe?

 

2) Why can I RE a recipe and get a supposed "upgrade" that has NO MORE armor, NO MORE end/str/etc, NO MORE defense/absorption etc, and just adds ONE stat?

 

Seems to me that dropped recipe blue armor that is RE'd TWICE (which can and does usually take about 10-25 tries the first time and 10-20 tries the next time) should get visibly better EACH incarnation. I mean, isn;t that supposed to be the big REWARD for being a hard core dedicated crafter that was discussed? A simple system that rewards serious crafters with the ability to make serious gear? As it stands now, NOTHING I make is worth the effort when compared to the pathetic ease with which one can get pvp gear that is comparable or better, or orange gear with new mods/armor/enhancement replacements every few levels with almost NO investment.

 

Seems like this is like other MMOs, where crafting armor (and other gear) will be a useless waste of time other than for a small handful of a couple of cherished recipes that everyone will want you to make, and otherwise your skills are trash and useless. Not a robust system where crafted gear is valuable across all levels and in demand and tbhe best most dedicated crafters make superlative gear that is on par with basic raid gear and raids yield even better recipes/materials. What do we have now? Oh sure, I guess I could make Rakata gear after raids...and then? Can I RE it? No one is sure, but assuming it follows the pattern, I could..and what? Raid 50 times to RE one recipe? So that it gains nothing but some defense? Also, honestly, the Rakata gear is not even that great.

 

Overall, I am just SORELY disappointed. I mean, I am ok with the massive investment and difficulty involved in getting recipes, IF the end yield was worth it. Alas, the yield is total garbage and NOWHERE near the investment. Crafting, at least for armor, is worthless.

 

yeah well i am max sythweaving. i don't have problems with it i made tons of money off of my mod crafted armor . you just upset and don't like crafting that's your problem. i made over 100k on the market selling my armor and stuff so i dont see your problem is nice to wine right . PLus pvp armor takes forever to get out of them bags. so i dont see your point its fraud .

Edited January 21, 2012 by ninjashadowdark

[Gristuth]

Generally, in any game, gear crafting is useless at the end and crafting in general is infuriating. Normally a player joins a group, kills a few bosses, and proudly dons his easy to get gear. I craft usually for the perks, like I use artifice only to get the color crystals, and biochem to never spend a credit in the future on stims and medpacs (other than the ones for 1 purple medpac and 1 purple stim). I might make a 3rd character with cybertech for the speeders. Not sure...

[ninjashadowdark]

Generally, in any game, gear crafting is useless at the end and crafting in general is infuriating. Normally a player joins a group, kills a few bosses, and proudly dons his easy to get gear. I craft usually for the perks, like I use artifice only to get the color crystals, and biochem to never spend a credit in the future on stims and medpacs (other than the ones for 1 purple medpac and 1 purple stim). I might make a 3rd character with cybertech for the speeders. Not sure...

 

this is not true crafted gear is best. when you put some time into it i used my crafted gear for raids all blues not mod armor its not useless. Even the Dev said you can use crafted gear for raids its second best its all optional.

[Wanderingdrunk]

Crafting allows you to make the BEST gear for any particular level 1-49. There is obviously better stuff at level 50, however this is true in any game.

 

I did armortech to 400 in beta and didn't reap the benefits of it as I was usually playing catch up and didn't spend the time to RE anything.

 

On live I am leveling sysnthweav ahead of my level and making a tidy profit from superior/mastercrafted epics at material levels 2 and 4 mostly.

 

 

If you understand how to take full advantage of crew skills, it is easy to stockpile blue/epic mats, and farm and stock up on the expensive crew skill white items at a discount. The only time costly part is farming the green crystals/artifacts, as they are usually too expensive to purchase on the market. However this is proved very profitable.

 

There is a huge market for everything from about level 20-45, and I anticipate it will continue to grow as people build a surplus of creds and start rolling alts.

 

 

Im doing cybertech/scav/slicing on an alt and this is incredibly profitable. Cyber levels iteself and slicing is a constant supply of credits. If I spent anytime actually crafting stuff for the market i could make massive profits, which Im sure I will when I fully focus my efforts on this char again.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Wanderingdrunk

[coldcite]

Crafted gear (blue/purple) is usually better than quest or even commendation rewards.

 

However, if you are planning to level your tradeskill of choice on par to your character level you are most often than not outleveling whatever item/set you might be grinding, ie. by the time you get a purple version you can already make some other green item of the same quality.

 

This is due to the random nature of the RE system when dealing with "prefix" schematics, which I believe is in need of a serious revamp as a whole.