Three MAJOR Bugs for Shadows... 1.1.1 and no end in sight...

[TheJonnyDerp]

First of all, you are completely wrong about the spec. Infiltration is not inferior to Balance or kinetic/FiB specs, not by a long shot. I finish most my Warzones in the top 3 damage done with usually 0 or very few deaths. Just because you suck with Infil, don't make generalizations.

 

That was the point she was making damage isn't an objective. If we want that we can abuse the 1-button wonders. Damage is not =/= to winning/helping an objective. It can be, but might not. Know how fun it is to see someone planting while the person "guarding" on Voidstar is fighting someone instead? That and our class is outclassed by other ones in a pure DPS regard. Show me a pics of you breaking 500k damage (which I see some Maras/Sents do fairly regularly) and I will rethink that statement. If you -can- do that then I will be confused by your statement about how we're hurting however... /troll over, just didn't like an attack on someone for stating their idea.

 

That being said you did raise good points.

 

Particle acceleration/harnessed shadows need fixes, they just flat out don't work like they should.

 

I actually like the current project but can see how it would be problematic. Lag is bad enough and if you run Infil that is a lost 30% damage, which is fairly significant. I find it currently better than shock in PvP instances, creates more of a burst. I don't mind the floating rocks so much knowing that if it had hit sure I would get some damage points but now it's on CD and that person still stealthed away... In PvE I could see it causing problems to your overall DPS with ability lag/normal lag/having to set up for it (if your Infil) etc.

[Zunzun]

If targets cloaks right after you cast Project, he'll still be hit. I thought this big rock floating in the air wasn't hitting anything until I killed someone with hit. This delay brings a lot of issues, but it works fine against vanishing targets.

 

Particle acceleration/Force Potency bug is very annoying.

[Elkingoh]

This is only my 2nd mmo but is it a bad sign that devs don't so much as say we'll look into these issues? Granted it's only been a month but dev communication should still be there right?

[Hyfy]

No, they didn't use the Empire equivalent of resilience. And no, damage is calculated when the ability hits, not when the button is pressed.

 

If they cloak too late the projectile hits but they still have a large .5-1s window.

 

Please stop posting misinformation, you're muddling the actual issue and making relevant discussion difficult.

 

If it was calculated at hit then why with abilities like your force jump (I forget the actual name off hand while I'm driving to work) does the targets health bar is already down mid flight? The damage is already figured by time you or your projectile has gotten there.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Hyfy

[MrOuija]

Agreed on all counts.

How can they have buggy talents like this? Slow Time + Harnessing Shadows is pretty spec-breaking.

[Zintair]

If it was calculated at hit then why with abilities like your force jump (I forget the actual name off hand while I'm driving to work) does the targets health bar is already down mid flight? The damage is already figured by time you or your projectile has gotten there.

 

No, its not. Why do people keep saying this? It is so obvious its embarrassing.

 

I have had at least 7 different situations where if the damage was calculated when I used the ability the Sith player capping the door in Voidstar would NOT have.

 

Yet they got the bomb off as my rock was coming out of the ground to hit them.

 

It's not game breaking but dont come on here telling Shadows that the damage is calculated when you press it cause the interupt doesn;t happen until the animation hits them. n That also incidentally is when your number shows up.

 

Coincidence? I very much doubt it.

[Hyfy]

No, its not. Why do people keep saying this? It is so obvious its embarrassing.

 

I have had at least 7 different situations where if the damage was calculated when I used the ability the Sith player capping the door in Voidstar would NOT have.

 

Yet they got the bomb off as my rock was coming out of the ground to hit them.

 

It's not game breaking but dont come on here telling Shadows that the damage is calculated when you press it cause the interupt doesn;t happen until the animation hits them. n That also incidentally is when your number shows up.

 

Coincidence? I very much doubt it.

 

Then why does the hp bar of my victim go down while I'm still in mid flight? Think about that one. The only ones that are figured at the time of the actual hit and not at the time of pressin the key is DoT abilities. To argue otherwise is just silly.

 

Now mind you I'm just using Force Leap as an example, but it's a damn good example that shows the damage figured at the key press and not the hit.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Hyfy

[DragonianJedi]

Then why does the hp bar of my victim go down while I'm still in mid flight? Think about that one. The only ones that are figured at the time of the actual hit and not at the time of pressin the key is DoT abilities. To argue otherwise is just silly.

 

Now mind you I'm just using Force Leap as an example, but it's a damn good example that shows the damage figured at the key press and not the hit.

 

Having played both a Guardian and a Shadow, I can point out to you now that both parties are correct. A knight's force leap is calculated when the button is pressed and does affect the target in that instant.

 

The shadow's project does NOT do the same, instead waiting for the animation to play out before actually causing any adverse effect to its target.

 

That is what one of the problems is that they are pointing out. (It wouldn't be an issue if it did work like force leap....but it doesn't.)

 

It's a big game. There are plenty of bugs to squash (aside from killiks and colicoids). In the grand scheme, our issues aren't that big. I understand this. But I too would very much appreciate some acknowledgement of any or all of these problems from any developer who had a few spare moments. They would score major points in my book.

[Zintair]

Then why does the hp bar of my victim go down while I'm still in mid flight? Think about that one. The only ones that are figured at the time of the actual hit and not at the time of pressin the key is DoT abilities. To argue otherwise is just silly.

 

Now mind you I'm just using Force Leap as an example, but it's a damn good example that shows the damage figured at the key press and not the hit.

 

This is the Shadow forum. We don't Force Leap. OUR Project ability calculates when the rock hits.

 

Its actually a terrible example, because it's not the same ability. We are discussing Shadow Bugs. Your talking about Knight Leap which has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

[Cthuga]

Another classic example of an argument which could be easily settled by the inclusion of a feature which has existed in almost every MMO since original EQ.

 

Combat log.

[Psydils]

Actually, some of these are rather game breaking since current "threat" numbers are being calculated using this extra damage Project is "supposed" to be generating.

 

Not being able to hold threat, leads to boss wipes, reduced dps numbers, boss enrages, etc.

 

 

One other problem I've noticed a lot is fail RNG. Like, I literally can go 10 Double Strikes without a single Particle Acceleration proc. This is on a 50% proc rate. The liklihood of this happening should be extremely small, yet it happens all the time.

[Hyfy]

This is the Shadow forum. We don't Force Leap. OUR Project ability calculates when the rock hits.

 

Its actually a terrible example, because it's not the same ability. We are discussing Shadow Bugs. Your talking about Knight Leap which has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

 

The shadow forums...you don't say? It was an example, now try to keep up. I even recall myself saying such and acknowledging that force leap isn't a shadow ability but I guess you glossed over that in your haste to needlessly rage.

 

It was however being used to show how damage is calculated from the key press and not the animation DoTs withstanding of course.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Hyfy

[grandmasterub]

Proving that projects damage is determined when the rock hits as opposed to at button press is simple. Proc particle acceleration cast project note damage. Next mob proc particle acceleration but wait to cast project until just before the buff expires. You will not get the crit if the rock impacts after the buff expires.

 

Another proof. If project damage is at button cast then why can you

cast project> insta cast force potency before the rock hits> have a proc of fp consumed...

 

Both of these are indications of projdct damage not applying until the rock hits. Also you can just look at the enemy hp bar and note when the hp disappears relative to the animation. Note other long animation abilities such as trooper stock strike cause the hp bar to decrease before the animation finishes or flytext appears... This indicates that shadow project is bugged.

[Elkingoh]

Another classic example of an argument which could be easily settled by the inclusion of a feature which has existed in almost every MMO since original EQ.

 

Combat log.

most likely they didn't add dmg logs so people wouldn't have actual numbers to see how broken mechanics and pvp balance is, due to improper dev work. Wouldn't be the first EA game with a "strategic" release that goes wrong due to time constraint.

[Hyfy]

Proving that projects damage is determined when the rock hits as opposed to at button press is simple. Proc particle acceleration cast project note damage. Next mob proc particle acceleration but wait to cast project until just before the buff expires. You will not get the crit if the rock impacts after the buff expires.

 

Another proof. If project damage is at button cast then why can you

cast project> insta cast force potency before the rock hits> have a proc of fp consumed...

 

Both of these are indications of projdct damage not applying until the rock hits. Also you can just look at the enemy hp bar and note when the hp disappears relative to the animation. Note other long animation abilities such as trooper stock strike cause the hp bar to decrease before the animation finishes or flytext appears... This indicates that shadow project is bugged.

 

If its bugged then by all means they can fix it. If it is working as intended or the visual animation is just not synched properly then it is a moot point and should be a dead issue.

[VenaliterFA]

Bump. This bug (Particle Acceleration + Force Potency) not working really hurts the spec.

 

Also, project needs to deal the damage and do it's stun immediately on cast. You can leave the animation the same, really - nobody cares if the damage is dealt before the animation of the rock hitting if that's what it takes.

 

At least acknowledge this bug, Bioware. You owe us that.

[Ritsugamesh]

Pretty simple way of proving the whole project debate...

 

Clairvoyant Strike has a 15% damage bonus proc that stacks twice, perfectly with circling shadows. Both show up as separate procs on your buff bar.

 

Now you simply have to activate the ability at someone near death or just before they cloak. What you will see is that the circling shadows force reduction proc will be used up as you've activated the ability for less force, yet if the target dies in the interim of activation or he cloaks up you'll notice that the clarvoiyant strike proc will remain, clearly stating that damage was NOT applied.

 

It's pretty simple really, there's no way to even argue against it as BIOWARE's own game mechanics have a visual proof.

 

Also, ffs get Particle Acceleration to work right, I want to play my kin/bal already wihtout being gimped even further.

[Exoteis]

3. yes while i will agree that there is a long delay with project HOWEVER i am able to get telekenetic throw started or a double strike thrown in for 2 hits at once. the problem with the insta cast imo is bam its done i have to wait and use another ability with the delay i have another ability spammed and hitting at the exact same time the rock smashes into their face.

chain it with a spinning kick and then telekenetic throw them for boosted dmg from knocked down targets.

 

seriously instead of crying about them learn how to use them to your advantage.

furthermore this is not game breaking at all.

 

Are you serious ?

 

What you say is non-sense. Then you dare to tell the OP to learn how to use a skill at advantage ?

The fact project is delayed by 1GCD and stack with your next attack doesn't mean it's good, after those 2 GCDs it ends up the same damage.

 

There is only one thing that matters:

 

Imperial Assassin: Shock = Damage instantly.

Republic Shadow: Project = Damage after 1.5s.

 

Those are suppose to be mirrors. They are obviously not.

 

PERIOD.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Exoteis

[Thiussat]

lol

 

For real though: How about makign Shadow Strike *********** WORK when I click it?

 

You're doing it wrong, bro.

[Warclaymore]

I realized recently that, imho, Force Lift doesn0t work properly.

 

I mean, I have the two talent points that let me cast this instant and stuns the target when effect is broken by damagin it. I remark this because I've seen so many times this: I Force Lift a target then strike him to interrupt its cast as a regular stun would do, but no matter how many critical projects or double strikes I land, the effect do not break. This is specially anoying when the target is healing itself. I could not test it in PvP but I'm pretty sure time and time I've been lifted by a Inquisitor then anihilated.

 

Also, there are some animations (shadow strike and spinning strike) that double their animations when you click them twice. Let's face it: in PvP you found yourself tapping twice or more times each button to make sure you actually cast the skill. When trying to Spinning/Shadow strike, this usually results in your character initiating twice the animation, wich makes the attack hit later than it should. Of course you could just press one time the button with total confidence that delay won't make your attack to never execute...

[Shroudsy]

Are you serious ?

 

What you say is non-sense. Then you dare to tell the OP to learn how to use a skill at advantage ?

The fact project is delayed by 1GCD and stack with your next attack doesn't mean it's good, after those 2 GCDs it ends up the same damage.

 

There is only one thing that matters:

 

Imperial Assassin: Shock = Damage instantly.

Republic Shadow: Project = Damage after 1.5s.

 

Those are suppose to be mirrors. They are obviously not.

 

PERIOD.

 

use force breach in that gap you wont even notice it and you will see tons of damage all at once

[Jackbooten]

To the OP: Agreed on all points. Anyone who has any idea how MMOs work, and should be balanced, should likewise agree with you. There is no room for argument here.

 

To everyone else: Go **** yourselves. You only serve to limit the amount of balancing that this game gets, since every time you go "hey, project is actually really good," it adds to some imaginary conflict bar that fills up and justifies the developers doing nothing to fix the situation. There is without a doubt a lack of direct mirroring between Shadows and Assassins, and the only cause of that is the difference between Project and Shock. This difference fundamentally alters how the two classes perform and function in both PvE and PvP.

[Jatne]

No, they didn't use the Empire equivalent of resilience. And no, damage is calculated when the ability hits, not when the button is pressed.

 

If they cloak too late the projectile hits but they still have a large .5-1s window.

 

Please stop posting misinformation, you're muddling the actual issue and making relevant discussion difficult.

 

 

My point, if you'd actually bothered to read my post was that the issue with people Force Cloaking our Project happens 2/3 out of 5 times. Ergo it's not a constant issue. Also, cloaking once every two minutes (or less for the Mara/Sent Fade) is hardly game breaking.

 

The issue that (some) people mention (this is far from the ONLY thread complaining) of the delay between Project being activtated and hitting, giving people time to use Resilience... again, once per minute. It's not game breaking.

 

When you fight a mirror class, you can anticipate their Shock/Discharge and use your own immunity.

 

I would happily take that trade, for being able to Low Slash into a Project/Force Breach for an instant 6k+ damage in 'one' GCD.

[Valkenheineken]

My point, if you'd actually bothered to read my post was that the issue with people Force Cloaking our Project happens 2/3 out of 5 times. Ergo it's not a constant issue. Also, cloaking once every two minutes (or less for the Mara/Sent Fade) is hardly game breaking.

 

The issue that (some) people mention (this is far from the ONLY thread complaining) of the delay between Project being activtated and hitting, giving people time to use Resilience... again, once per minute. It's not game breaking.

 

When you fight a mirror class, you can anticipate their Shock/Discharge and use your own immunity.

 

I would happily take that trade, for being able to Low Slash into a Project/Force Breach for an instant 6k+ damage in 'one' GCD.

 

You're right that it's not "game breaking" in that it doesn't cause the game to crash or anything. However, it's absolutely against the design intent in this game for factions to have symmetrical balance, and by your own estimations (which are admittedly quite off) the issue presents itself fairly consistently. It should be addressed.

 

By your logic, only crash-inducing bugs or server failures need be addressed. For those who acknowledge that MMOs can only justify their monthly charge by offering a higher quality game than the norm, the need to actually execute on the design intent for symmetrical balance is plainly apparent.

[Hyfy]

To the OP: Agreed on all points. Anyone who has any idea how MMOs work, and should be balanced, should likewise agree with you. There is no room for argument here.

 

To everyone else: Go **** yourselves. You only serve to limit the amount of balancing that this game gets, since every time you go "hey, project is actually really good," it adds to some imaginary conflict bar that fills up and justifies the developers doing nothing to fix the situation. There is without a doubt a lack of direct mirroring between Shadows and Assassins, and the only cause of that is the difference between Project and Shock. This difference fundamentally alters how the two classes perform and function in both PvE and PvP.

 

Yes good.....goooooood. I feel the hate coming out in you. Rage much? I think you need to step back a little and calm down.