Fosson Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is stupid. Bioware makes a horrible mechanic for Ilum then blames the players that took advantage of the horrible mechanic. It reminds me of 4th grade when we made our own games on the playground, got beat at them, then blamed the kids that won the games we made. Go ahead and change the rules again Bioware, and when you end up crying because your game is broken try to remember it's your fault. Full disclosure: I'm not one of the people talented enough to farm valor, my PC can't even handle the 150 people fighting at the base at once anyway, so I'm not upset because bioware changed a mechanic i was good at. It's just ****** to punish the player-base because the highly esteemed design team somehow didn't see this coming. So I take it this is your first experience dealing with bug exploits. Welcome to MMOs. Pro tip: If something seems to be broken, or you're able to take advantage of getting rewards much easier than intended, best thing to do is back off. Its like when the pvp armor in WoW was accidentally free and everyone started suiting up. I'm sure there were a few that thought it was their right to keep it since "Blizz made the mistake." If you gained valor due to camping the spawn, or whatever means quicker than intended, you're not being punished if its taken away. You were never supposed to have so much in so little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftek Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Time to grow up BW.. and take responsability for YOUR mistakes lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is stupid. Bioware makes a horrible mechanic for Ilum then blames the players that took advantage of the horrible mechanic. It reminds me of 4th grade when we made our own games on the playground, got beat at them, then blamed the kids that won the games we made. Go ahead and change the rules again Bioware, and when you end up crying because your game is broken try to remember it's your fault. Full disclosure: I'm not one of the people talented enough to farm valor, my PC can't even handle the 150 people fighting at the base at once anyway, so I'm not upset because bioware changed a mechanic i was good at. It's just ****** to punish the player-base because the highly esteemed design team somehow didn't see this coming. so basically you're saying that it's ok to leave all those players that are now Battle Masters as they are? I mean they only spent hours to obtain the same reward (if not more) than some people got after days of playing.. you really think that's ok? Regardless of who made the mistake, there is a huge imbalance because of the Valor and this simply needs to be fixed. It is very annoying when you play for days or even weeks to obtain a goal that a bunch of other people can attain in hours because of a miscalculation made by the game makers. You must see this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasq Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thank you so much, hopefuly i unsubbed 2 days ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatecaster Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nice to see that you atleast Claim to be doing something against the exploiters. Now all we need is some atual evidence that punishment has been dealt. I wouldnt hold you breath on getting the specifics on how they deal with it. Most mmo's will not discuss how punishment are dealt out. Be happy with knowing that at least they will be fair and not punish everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalevan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks Bioware! And btw, please lose the player location spam on Ilum too. That's just unnecessary. Talk about letting the other faction know where to camp! Plus it can't be helping the lag situation. And the ops group bug (where the leader is spammed with the message that his companion had to be stored) REALLY blows! OPS groups are lag groups atm as well. Don't know if that bug is a part of it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisArmstrong Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 so basically you're saying that it's ok to leave all those players that are now Battle Masters as they are? Yeah that's exactly what i was saying. Why not? Some people find shortcuts and more power to them, do they pay the same as you to get the same opportunity or the same outcome? Bioware's fault, Bioware's problem, not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godsofchaos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah let BW have time to hammer out the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitori Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) How is "camping" illegal? Does it violate the terms of service? Was it obvious to the players that this was an exploit and not intended functionality? I understand folks were doing pvp in a World PVP zone. What's wrong with that? If the designers could not think of obvious consequences of their design and release the product, you should not blame players. Disclaimer: I am Replublic and I do not have characters in Ilum. Edited January 21, 2012 by Zitori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 While I still can't understand how BW didn't think of what would happen when deploying the patch and why they simply didn't shut down servers to prevent all the damage, I appreciate that they will take the time to fix the excessive valor gain of individuals (if they actually do it for real), so thank you for that. Let this be a lesson to their game designers and managers so it will hopefully won't happen again. Also, good luck with making Ilum relevant. It seems like a complex issue to slove. Shut down the servers because a hundred or so people happen to be on Ilum, while thousands more were elsewhere doing something other than PvP? I'm glad you thought that one through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saminaobx Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No rollback Hahahahahahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalevan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah that's exactly what i was saying. Why not? Some people find shortcuts and more power to them, do they pay the same as you to get the same opportunity or the same outcome? Bioware's fault, Bioware's problem, not theirs. It may have been Bioware's mistake. But to think for one moment that anyone actually earned that extra Valor would be a joke in most reasonable people's eyes. For all the babies that are quitting, good riddance. Edited January 21, 2012 by dalevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 How is camping illegal? Does it violate the terms of use? Regardless of what you think is "legal" or not in THEIR game, BW ultimately has the say in what they believe was "intended". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltpunch Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Excellent news! Whats up with the hate? First people demand an answer, actions to be taken and now that they finally getting detailed answers , you guys keep giving negative criticism. Also keep in mind that BW did give a pretty early answer but not detailed, take a hint why? They did not expect this, giving a detailed answer requires work and gather data, it takes time. They have to bring up all possible solutions then pick the most likely one that makes sense, which is a process that takes time. Please haters, just unsub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mSum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What a load... Why? Admitting they made a mistake and that they are taking action to fix it....that's a load? Why you mad bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mSum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Excellent news! Whats up with the hate? First people demand an answer, actions to be taken and now that they finally getting detailed answers , you guys keep giving negative criticism. Also keep in mind that BW did give a pretty early answer but not detailed, take a hint why? They did not expect this, giving a detailed answer requires work and gather data, it takes time. They have to bring up all possible solutions then pick the most likely one that makes sense, which is a process that takes time. Please haters, just unsub. Because they just want to hate to hate. It's somehow fun for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAladar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If anyone thinks that they are going to do anything to the people that even farmed from 45-60 that day, you are wrong. They will most likely only touch the people that went huge numbers, like the people who went from 50-100 (which some people did). I am watching specific people on my server who clearly took huge advantage of the bug, and if they are not fixed it will make my decision for me whether to unsub or not. Maybe GW2 can get pvp right, its about time somebody does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentonj Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) It's really unfortunate that he didn't even bother to mention the unreasonable and seemingly broken daily / weekly quest. This has been discussed at length here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=206135 Edited January 21, 2012 by brentonj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisArmstrong Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It may have been Bioware's mistake. But to think for one moment that anyone actually earned that extra Valor would be a joke in most reasonable people's eyes. It's a legitimate talking point, and i appreciate the good manners, but i find myself to be pretty reasonable, and this is a videogame, so in the context of videogames is there such a thing as a reasonable timetable for "earning" anything? you play the game to beat it right? so if you found a way to become a battlemaster quickly why get punished? I think if Bioware feels the need to do anything besides just fix the stupid mechanic, it should be to consolidate the players that got camped, not punish the campers because they could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shumney Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The alternative being to remain silent? Yeah it didnt matter what kind of statement they realesed, people are gonna have a fit. They could of said a million dollars to every player and people would of still posted **** like "OH THEYRE BRIBING US NOW!" Kids these days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windry Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Thank you for the post. I don't understand all the people going up in arms about this abuse. It's like they've never played a MMO before. Taking down the servers the day of is a very fast response, and having an official comment about the subject 2 days later is a very timely response as well. When people were abusing LFR in WoW to get a full tier set in Dragon Soul, nothing was done or said for 2 weeks. When Wintergrasp was bugged and could be continuously won making honor capping incredibly easy, it took Blizzard 2 days to take down the servers. No, I did not partake in the Ilum abuse. I did not even go to Ilum on that day, but my opinion is that Bioware should not hand out bans to these people. In many ways Bioware did drop the ball with Ilum. Clearing all valor gains on Jan 18th of the people who abused the system is enough justice for me. Lastly, I do agree that Ilum is not very fun, and is not a very good concept at all, but at the same time, I think Tol Barad and more-so Wintergrasp were incredibly stupid too. I think it's kind of sad to see so many people emo quitting or threatening to do so over this subject. Edited January 21, 2012 by Windry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiminimonka Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good news for some, bad news for all the (mostly Empire) players that got way too much Valour. I hope they system is really able to spot all those that camped outside the bases and remove their valour and any items they got as rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuser Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I like how people will be getting punished for just doing what was allowed on a live server. just fix it and leave those players be. Try not to release such a buggy mechanic next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuffMuffin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So in an ideal world this is what's going to happen... SCRIPT - Check player data logs Total Valor Reduction = 0 --- for the period of time during which exploiting was possible check player events... ------ If the Player gained valor --------- And was within a fixed distance of opposition spawn point ------------ Add awarded valor to "Total Valor Reduction" Reduce Valor by "Total Valor Reduction" amount If amount of valor gained was above "X" then... --- Apply 24 hour ban-hammer If amount of valor gained was above "X" + "Y" and the total number of offenders is small then... --- Manually review player inventory and remove any awards/gear that are inappropriate But if there were a LOT of offenders... --- Write another script that can figure out what stuff was ill-gotten and wipe it This won't happen overnight. It might even take many weeks before these consequences are felt. That's because the scripts will need to be written, reviewed, tested, test run on the ENTIRE database for that period for EVERY server, the results of the test run scrutinized, authorization to take action based on those results approved, and then finally enacted. And even then, there will likely be some unfairly penalized players who will make polite requests for CS to review their cases, and where those players state their case calmly and rationally, it's likely that CS will actually pay attention to them. At any rate, that's how I'd handle it. For those folks out there who are whinging that it's BioWare's fault that the mechanics allowed them to take advantage of what was clearly NOT an intended mechanic, let me sum this up as an ethical situation in more concrete RL terms... If you were to discover that typing a special code into the keypad of a bank machine would dispense twenty dollars every time you enter it, would you do so? Would you do so KNOWING that a camera is recording you every time you do it? Would you do so if you had to insert you bank card (thus identifying yourself, with those photos of you confirming your actions)? Would you try to convince the police officers who would then come to your house that it's the bank's fault for letting you take that money from them? That you *deserved* to keep the money because you'd put in the time to acquire it? Get real. Spawn camping for valor farming is, in my mind, clearly an exploit, and a rather egregious one given that there were actual human victims who were unable to extricate themselves from the area without abandoning their characters until the situation could be brought under control. Saying "They should have shut down the servers/applied a patch/whatever vague assertion attempting to make the developer culpable" is a statement made from ignorance regarding the complexity of the server system and the fact that the MAJORITY of players were entirely unaffected - yes, folks, in reality the population of level 50 hardcore PvPers is pretty tiny compared to the vast majority of folks who are casually crawling their way to endgame. And by the way, it still doesn't justify patently unethical activities. So, for everyone who's going to see that big-chunk-o-valor vanish "real soon now", just suck it up. You'll still be able to brag to the newbies in a few years that you were there when the Valor-Vending-Machine incident happened, and maybe you'll have the screenshots to prove it. Meanwhile, let's cut the developers some slack - I lived through WoW from launch, and it was a much bumpier ride than this has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is stupid. Bioware makes a horrible mechanic for Ilum then blames the players that took advantage of the horrible mechanic. It reminds me of 4th grade when we made our own games on the playground, got beat at them, then blamed the kids that won the games we made. Go ahead and change the rules again Bioware, and when you end up crying because your game is broken try to remember it's your fault. Full disclosure: I'm not one of the people talented enough to farm valor, my PC can't even handle the 150 people fighting at the base at once anyway, so I'm not upset because bioware changed a mechanic i was good at. It's just ****** to punish the player-base because the highly esteemed design team somehow didn't see this coming. So are you saying you have no self control and are not adult enough to NOT take advantage of a situation that was not intended? Just saying... I hope Bioware suspends some of these players accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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