Mackuss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) My answer to someone else appies to you as well: "I personally would never call what happened an "exploit". But the fact remains that this was not supposed to happen. If your bank makes a mistake and deposits 1000$ in your account, you don't get to keep it. " I highly doubt that these players will be banned or locked. They will simply remove the valor obtained at that time and location. No one will get hurt. What was not supposed to happen? Mass PvP in an open PvP zone? I'm being serious, tell me. What was not SUPPOSED to happen? Camping? That's a legitimate tactic. And I'm Republic, dude. I can see it if, when the patch rolled out - everyone on Empire some how got to appear as Republic, and thus friendly to Republic characters. That's not SUPPOSED to happen. Or every Jedi Sage got to shoot purple lightning. That's not SUPPOSED to happen. But mass PvP in a PvP zone is exactly what was intended in making the zone what it is in a game between two factions at war that allows humans to play them, and thus, against eachother. Edited January 21, 2012 by Mackuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuffMuffin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Meh... I won't argue that BioWare has implemented some pretty messed up mechanics. Illum is definitely broken in its current form. I'm fairly certain that we all know they need to implement diminishing returns on PvP kills, isolate individual/group objectives, remove enemy location spam, etc. Give them time to do so. There are a few hundred "power-leveled-to-fifty" folks out there who are determined to proclaim the game broken-for-ever because it hasn't been tweaked to accommodate for their playstyles yet... Get over it. It's going to be months before solid balance between classes is achieved - players are clever and are *not* willing to expose their advantages to developers if they believe they have an edge over other competitors. Nobody is going to come out publicly and say "it's OK to nerf me". In time, the Devs will recognize the issues, address them, and balance gameplay appropriately. It's not going to happen overnight. Be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeymtl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) That example makes no sense. Stating something without saying why makes less sense. Edited January 21, 2012 by Joeymtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeymtl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) What was not supposed to happen? Mass PvP in an open PvP zone? I'm being serious, tell me. What was not SUPPOSED to happen? Camping? That's a legitimate tactic. And I'm Republic, dude. The actions (base camping) caused by their bad design (incentive). Edited January 21, 2012 by Joeymtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My answer to someone else appies to you as well: "I personally would never call what happened an "exploit". But the fact remains that this was not supposed to happen. If your bank makes a mistake and deposits 1000$ in your account, you don't get to keep it. " I highly doubt that these players will be banned or locked. They will simply remove the valor obtained at that time and location. No one will get hurt. The problem with your analogy is that the 'customer' is aware of the mistake. The Illium problem was not a known mistake by the player base. They did not know of the supposed 'instant kill zone' program. They saw turrets firing. They saw what looked like their team over running the turrets, to attack the enemy's base. Did BW start sending Zone wide announcements immediately, saying 'What you are doing is a violation of the TOS'? No. BW just let players continue to do the 'illegal' activity. Imo, the 'we are burning customers that ruined your game' approach, was thought up by someone at BW as a scapegoat to deflect the real issue of their poor decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The actions (base camping) caused by their bad design (incentive). And their poor design did not make it known that the activity was 'wrong'. What is next? Punishing players that use an overpowered ability or piece of gear that they find in the game??? It is rediculous that BW is trying to place the blame on their customers, for Biowares own mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwnKesteven Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I certainly appreciate him taking the time to write something. Personally, I wish it had been a little less "we're figuring out what to do about those 'exploiters'" and a little more "yeah, we didn't do this patch so well, we know it sucked for you and here's what we've learned and how we plan to apply that". But that would almost be a real apology which I'm feeling like BioWare doesn't do (maybe EA just forbids that sort of thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeymtl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The problem with your analogy is that the 'customer' is aware of the mistake. The Illium problem was not a known mistake by the player base. They did not know of the supposed 'instant kill zone' program. They saw turrets firing. They saw what looked like their team over running the turrets, to attack the enemy's base. Did BW start sending Zone wide announcements immediately, saying 'What you are doing is a violation of the TOS'? No. BW just let players continue to do the 'illegal' activity. Imo, the 'we are burning customers that ruined your game' approach, was thought up by someone at BW as a scapegoat to deflect the real issue of their poor decisions. I never said you had to be aware for it to be unjust. I'm not blaming Imps for doing it. I do however expect BW to take actions afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Stating something without saying why makes less sense. I can see it if, when the patch rolled out - everyone on Empire some how got to appear as Republic, and thus friendly to Republic characters. That's not SUPPOSED to happen. Or every Jedi Sage got to shoot purple lightning. That's not SUPPOSED to happen. But mass PvP in a PvP zone is exactly what was intended in making the zone what it is in a game between two factions at war that allows humans to play them, and thus, against eachother. So tell me this, big guy, theoretically, one day if the factions are perfectly balanced, yet, through skill, Empire still camps Republic's spawn because it just happens to be an awesome team and has better players, whatever. Will Bioware still do something about it? Will that still be in the "NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING" realm? lol, that whole stance of full of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeymtl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What is next? Punishing players that use an overpowered ability or piece of gear that they find in the game??? All mmo developpers take those kind of actions every year. It's called balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And their poor design did not make it known that the activity was 'wrong'. What is next? Punishing players that use an overpowered ability or piece of gear that they find in the game??? It is rediculous that BW is trying to place the blame on their customers, for Biowares own mistakes. That you werent meant to be able to enter the base, that one I can buy. But it must have been Daamn obvious that you werent supposed to be able and farm the ressers over and over again. I mean it must have been rather obvious that there were no way for them to get out of it, short of simply logging off. This excuse is just getting lame and old! And all I see when I read these kinds of posts, is people who either will lose their valor gains or even get a ban. Sucks to be you! Should have thought of that, Especially when the whole republic community exploded with rage, going as far as requesting a rollback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The problem with your analogy is that the 'customer' is aware of the mistake. The Illium problem was not a known mistake by the player base. They did not know of the supposed 'instant kill zone' program. They saw turrets firing. They saw what looked like their team over running the turrets, to attack the enemy's base. Did BW start sending Zone wide announcements immediately, saying 'What you are doing is a violation of the TOS'? No. BW just let players continue to do the 'illegal' activity. Imo, the 'we are burning customers that ruined your game' approach, was thought up by someone at BW as a scapegoat to deflect the real issue of their poor decisions. Another problem with his stupid analogy is that they didn't give us valor. like the "bank gave us money" It is just down right stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) They did not know of the supposed 'instant kill zone' program. They saw turrets firing. I was there that day as an Imp at their base. During that time we never over-ran the base, and I was killed multiple times by turret fire trying to lead a push; did that change at some point? I don't think what exactly is supposed to have been the "exploit" has been sufficiently explained... Edited January 21, 2012 by gankatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyona Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I honestly don't understand why people are complaining about what Bioware is about to do. I truly hope people realize that going from rank 10 valor to max valor rank in a couple of hours is a huge bug. Seriously, everyone here had an idea of how LONG each valor rank takes to level. There is no excuse to say " Oh, Bioware made a mistake so because they made a mistake, we should keep the valor." Get real because anyone who has played any other MMO knows that if you take advantage of something that was never intended to be possible, should expect and accept the consequences. Seriously, how can any reasonable person think that's okay? Are you for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I honestly don't understand why people are complaining about what Bioware is about to do. I truly hope people realize that going from rank 10 valor to max valor rank in a couple of hours is a huge bug. Seriously, everyone here had an idea of how LONG each valor rank takes to level. There is no excuse to say " Oh, Bioware made a mistake so because they made a mistake, we should keep the valor." Get real because anyone who has played any other MMO knows that if you take advantage of something that was never intended to be possible, should expect and accept the consequences. Seriously, how can any reasonable person think that's okay? Are you for real? Because it is not the players fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepWithGuy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Coming from someone who was on the receiving end of that camping, I do not feel that people who got Valor from camping the base should be punished in any way. Playing as a Republic character on Jung Ma, I have hardly been able to make it past the Southern Assault for the last 2-3 days. While I find it extremely annoying getting camped by the Sith (or maybe Republic on some servers), I do not think it is their fault. They are using the system as intended. The lack of balance between is the problem, not the players. So in essence, the system is the problem. This was noted at length in a very long thread on the test server forums prior to the patch implementation too. Edited January 21, 2012 by JeepWithGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Coming from someone who was on the receiving end of that camping, I do not feel that people who got Valor from camping the base should be punished in any way. Playing as a Republic character on Jung Ma, I have hardly been able to make it past the Southern Assault for the last 2-3 days. While I find it extremely annoying getting camped by the Sith (or maybe Republic on some servers), I do not think it is their fault. They are using the system as intended. The lack of balance between is the problem, not the players. So in essence, the system is the problem. This was noted at length in a very long thread on the test server forums prior to the patch implementation too. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyona Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Because it is not the players fault. Sure, I agree with you in general that it's not the players fault for a bug being in a game. However, to take advantage of a bug that people knew was giving way more valor than what was intended makes it the players fault. I'm sorry but everyone knew how long each valor rank should take. Any reasonable person would know that something was wrong if they saw their valor rank going up by 10s of ranks each hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sure, I agree with you in general that it's not the players fault for a bug being in a game. However, to take advantage of a bug that people knew was giving way more valor than what was intended makes it the players fault. I'm sorry but everyone knew how long each valor rank should take. Any reasonable person would know that something was wrong if they saw their valor rank going up by 10s of ranks each hour. 200 valor per kill when we took over the entire planet is not too much valor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiovFett Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Another problem with his stupid analogy is that they didn't give us valor. like the "bank gave us money" It is just down right stupid. Everything the others say for you it's stupid, have you ever considered that what you're saying might be stupid? Do you really believe that killing players at their spawn point is fair? Too bad you weren't on their side, i would laugh and pay to watch you getting ganked by 200 imperials and not be allowed to leave the zone, cause in the same moment you respawned you would already be dead. Stop hating and go play whatever you're looking for, and about an earlier comment, about "I'm paying i talk to them how i want" that's the most disrepectful thing i ever heard, just because i'm paying someone it doesn't mean i can treat them like animals. @ BW Nice handling of the situation, i think those who farmed valor, which i don't believe anyone got to rank 100, cause that whole story about 5000 valor turret was just an invention made by a troll, should just lose the unfair amount of valor they won, because it's not fun to kill people in their respawn points even though that didn't happen to me, it's easy to guess. I can only say that you won my sub and i'm being very patient with all the issues, cause i know you guys will fix and in the future my patience will pay off. Edited January 21, 2012 by GiovFett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeymtl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The Pinata was poorly constructed, it broke by itself, all the kids rushed to grab all the candies on the ground... what are you gonna do :/ Thankfully, you guys aren't kids, so they're doing something. Edited January 21, 2012 by Joeymtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gankatron Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Because it is not the players fault. If valor was gained in a way that was imbalanced I feel that BioWare has the responsibility to correct it for purposes of establishing balance, even if it is in a retroactive fashion. Nonetheless, I don't agree with branding people as exploiters because they were adapting to a situation that was developing around them for the first day of an untried patch. AoC had rez point griefing in their end game zone and I hated it, but it wasn't considered exploitive at the time I left, because Funcom didn't come out and say that it was inappropriate behavior in an open world PvP zone. What is exploitive in a working as intended sense is all determined by statements from the devs. Realize that I have strict internalized rules of PvP conduct that I hold to, but labeling someone as an exploiter prior to a working definition of what is unacceptable griefing in open world PvP is tenuous at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Everything the others say for you it's stupid, have you ever considered that what you're saying might be stupid? Do you really believe that killing players at their spawn point is fair? Too bad you weren't on their side, i would laugh and pay to watch you getting ganked by 200 imperials and not be allowed to leave the zone, cause in the same moment you respawned you would already be dead. Stop hating and go play whatever you're looking for, and about an earlier comment, about "I'm paying i talk to them how i want" that's the most disrepectful thing i ever heard, just because i'm paying someone it doesn't mean i can treat them like animals. @ BW Nice handling of the situation, i think those who farmed valor, which i don't believe anyone got to rank 100, cause that whole story about 5000 valor turret was just an invention made by a troll, should just lose the unfair amount of valor they won, because it's not fun to kill people in their respawn points even though that didn't happen to me, it's easy to guess. I can only say that you won my sub and i'm being very patient with all the issues, cause i know you guys will fix and in the future my patience will pay off. Let's see what things I said were stupid. People stealing items from a store. banks giving people money. Burglary. All stupid that make no sense for this argument. Sorry you don't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiovFett Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Let's see what things I said were stupid. People stealing items from a store. banks giving people money. Burglary. All stupid that make no sense for this argument. Sorry you don't see that. Actually the first option makes very much sense to me, of course the second don't have so much sense cause they didn't give valor, but in a way the players did "steal" valor, or do you actually believe it's right to trap players into a zone and kill them at their respawn points? That's not only "stealing valor" it's actually stealing freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeBohm Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Actually the first option makes very much sense to me, of course the second don't have so much sense cause they didn't give valor, but in a way the players did "steal" valor, or do you actually believe it's right to trap players into a zone and kill them at their respawn points? That's not only "stealing valor" it's actually stealing freedom. You have to be in an ops group first off. If there are numerous ops group and you don't get the first hit on the person the other group gets the valor. So no. People did not steal it. They had to stand there and fight against rebels and champion turrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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