Is SWTOR the victim of WOW burnout?

[byteresistor]

Which is exactly why they're conveniences. Thank you for agreeing with me.

No, they're more than conveniences. The world isn't black and white, these features are somewhere in between "absolute necassity" and "conveniences". And even if they were just plain conveniences I would still take them over not having them without a second thought.

 

Let's say the game didn't have visible health bars or had the same animation for almost all of your characters abilities... you could still play the game couldn't you? Having something better is just a convenience right?

[GalacticKegger]

I think the SWTOR community is the victim because they're all raging and crying here

Every game has them. They rage and cry wherever their travels take them. The TOR community is simply the next stop on their tour. Edited January 21, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Chosenxeno]

No, sadly WoW npc were fairly boring. That game would've been a lot better if they talked.

 

I disagree. Only the main cast needs to talk(preferably in skippable cinematics). I love going to a hub and grabbing every quest and then moving on. I do not care about the woeful lives of NPCs lol.

[Baaddare]

It's a victim of a noob studio with no idea how to make a SP into an MMO. Not saying it's easy, but some decisions have just been bad. Plus it's a victim of being released in such a bare bones state/buggy to hell and back.

 

If it's a victim, so are we, and the murderer is Bioware!

 

um well although i am not a fan of WoW i would not really call blizzard a noob studio.....

oh you meant BW? hard to tell since what you posted fit wow so well bare bones buggy to hell and back bad game decisions and such fits WoW when it launched to a T

[Valenthor]

EQ is a UO clone in 3D.

WoW is a easy mode EQ clone.

TOR is a WoW clone with story.

 

Nope. They all sound equally stupid. Do something innovative, also known as risky, people yell at you for not copying what has been already successful. Copy something that has been proven to be successful, people yell at you for not being innovative enough. Make a MMO that actually adds meaningful leveling story, individual class story, developed companions, and fully voiced dialogue and all everyone focuses on what they copied from previous MMOs that have proven to be successful (hint: not just WoW). Dear "WoW clone" posters, please stop. You are not saying anything profound or important.

[Chosenxeno]

Every game has them. They rage and cry wherever their travels take them. The TOR community is simply the next stop on their tour.

 

You forgot to mention how you then follow us because "no one is ever on" after they leave:cool:

[MrTijger]

You forgot to mention how you then follow us because "no one is ever on" after they leave:cool:

 

Well, then 'they' either havent left or nobody is following.

[Zuqual]

um well although i am not a fan of WoW i would not really call blizzard a noob studio.....oh you meant BW? hard to tell since what you posted fit wow so well bare bones buggy to hell and back bad game decisions and such fits WoW when it launched to a T

 

What did WoW have to compete against when it launched? You know what this game has to compete with: WoW. If they didn't design this game to compete with it, or weren't ready to compete with it at launch, then they are either incompetent or stupid. Take your pick.

[Halbe]

EQ is a UO clone in 3D.

WoW is a easy mode EQ clone.

TOR is a WoW clone with story.

 

Nope. They all sound equally stupid. Do something innovative, also known as risky, people yell at you for not copying what has been already successful. Copy something that has been proven to be successful, people yell at you for not being innovative enough. Make a MMO that actually adds meaningful leveling story, individual class story, developed companions, and fully voiced dialogue and all everyone focuses on what they copied from previous MMOs that have proven to be successful (hint: not just WoW). Dear "WoW clone" posters, please stop. You are not saying anything profound or important.

 

Yup.

 

People need to accept that innovation in MMO's is nearly dead (not to mention subjective).

 

From here until eternity, MMO's will consist of a whole bunch of copying, and a few twists along the way to make it unique.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

Well, then 'they' either havent left or nobody is following.

 

This. If past MMO's are any indication, they'll be here 6 months from now still raging.

[Chosenxeno]

EQ is a UO clone in 3D.

WoW is a easy mode EQ clone.

TOR is a WoW clone with story.

 

Nope. They all sound equally stupid. Do something innovative, also known as risky, people yell at you for not copying what has been already successful. Copy something that has been proven to be successful, people yell at you for not being innovative enough. Make a MMO that actually adds meaningful leveling story, individual class story, developed companions, and fully voiced dialogue and all everyone focuses on what they copied from previous MMOs that have proven to be successful (hint: not just WoW). Dear "WoW clone" posters, please stop. You are not saying anything profound or important.

 

Best post in the Thread.

[Chosenxeno]

Well, then 'they' either havent left or nobody is following.

 

Well he said they are everywhere. How does he know that if he hasn't been following?

Edited January 21, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Baaddare]

First of all SWTOR is not competing the MMOs of 7 years ago. It is competing with the MMOs of today (primarily WoW and in the future, GW2 and Tera). The market and expectations for ALL games were very different 7 years ago. The gaming industry has matured and today we all expect a certain level of polish in released games. Any comparison of SWTOR's release and WoWs release is wrong.

 

Second, many of the issues raised by people are actually very viable ussues and not unrealistic at all. From ability delay to lack of playable engame content and lack of serious PvP are all very important and viable issues. In other words, most players up to now have not complained about that little stuff at all. So your characterization of unrealistic expectations is wrong.

 

first the game had engame content at launch it however was not designed for people to blow though 200+ hours of game play in a few days the devs were correctly more concerned with theit target audience which was not those who rushed to 50. This liek many MMO's is a PVE centric game not a pvp one. The pvp here is on par with most pve centric games from wow through rift. If you bothered to read the post about the delay they have fixs for soem of it and have tracked some of the issues down to some of the sub bases cpu's. As most people are aware it is extremely hard to make a pc based game run well on all the possible combinations of hardware out there. Even two people using the same named gpu could have ones made by different companies and thus their performance can vary.

[NuanceNW]

I've read alot of the gripes and complaints on these forums, and i've come to the conclusion that the level of intolerance for bugs and tech issues is way beyond anything i've seen in any other game. The first few month of wow's launch, we experienced up to 20+ days of server down time. During that time i didn't feel the hatred i feel in the swtor forums. Personally I blame the burned out wowers who built unrealistic expectations.

 

Thoughts?

 

It's not just WoW. Pick pretty much any game that has come on the market in recent years, from WH: AoR to Conan they've all set expectations for play and all failed to deliver to those expectations.

 

I think you might be on to something, but look at it from another angle. People are passionate because they want a game to deliver. The experiences with prior games have effected their perspective and that passion becomes frustration then anger then the forums. It's rage against the machine with the machine being expectations.

 

I didn't have any expectations coming into this game, heck I didn't even know about it until two weeks before launch. What BioWare has created has depth, it has story, it has theme and plot all generated from over 40 years of Star Wars. They tackled that part of the game and provided a decent UI, cool class trees, abilities that work together and even hybrid abilities to heal, tank and damage. They took pvp and made a game of pvp, they have open world and ranking with gear. They got a majority of the stuff people want from a new game and haven't promised the sky - players want it all anyway...

 

Having invested years in Asherson's Calls, DAoC, ... Warhammer, WoW even Rift I think this game is off to a terrific start. There's a video from Bioware showing a UI we can move around coming, they've been addressing exploits quickly and cleaning up launch bugs pretty effectively (go play the on test server and see...), they've pretty much allowed free flow on the forums and let the rabbles have their say during the included subscription and now things are settling into operations mode with the forum search activated. Now we see what Bioware is capable of to pass expectations and become a leading game.

[gurugeorge]

I've read alot of the gripes and complaints on these forums, and i've come to the conclusion that the level of intolerance for bugs and tech issues is way beyond anything i've seen in any other game. The first few month of wow's launch, we experienced up to 20+ days of server down time. During that time i didn't feel the hatred i feel in the swtor forums. Personally I blame the burned out wowers who built unrealistic expectations.

 

Thoughts?

 

All the hyped up launches of the past few years have been victims of WoW burnout; but I don't think SWTOR will be, it's got a different audience, and will probably bring more new people into the genre than it takes from WoW.

 

In fact, what I think is going to happen is that a few years down the line, you'll get a whole bunch of people for whom SWTOR was their first MMO, who'll be whining on forums of new MMOs then, QQing "where are the damn voice-overs?"

[LyriaFrost]

No, they're more than conveniences. The world isn't black and white, these features are somewhere in between "absolute necassity" and "conveniences". And even if they were just plain conveniences I would still take them over not having them without a second thought.

 

Of course. So would I. That's not the point. The fact that you can play the game just fine without them means they're not "necessary". In your own words, they make the game more enjoyable. They're a convenience. They make the game "better", but they're not required for the game to work.

 

You can drive a car without a CD player, radio, or tapedeck. It works just fine. Does having music to listen to make it more pleasant? Of course. If both are equal, I'd take the one with a radio/CD player too.

 

Let's say the game didn't have visible health bars or had the same animation for almost all of your characters abilities... you could still play the game couldn't you? Having something better is just a convenience right?

 

The game would still be playable, yes. And having something better would be a convenience. Again, the things mentioned were NOT required to play the game. They make it more convenient. Easier. More accessible. That's the very definition of convenience.

[Chessack]

Personally I blame the burned out wowers who built unrealistic expectations.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think it's not just WOW. I think that a lot of people are burned out on MMOs. I have some friends who are like this. One guy who used to spend years and years in MMOs has started joining them, playing a couple of months, and canceling. At one point the guy ran not one but THREE guilds in different games -- EVE, Vanguard, and LOTRO, for instance. All at the same time. And he was probably more active in each game than I've ever been in any ONE game.

 

Over the last year, he's quit 2 of those games, and two of the guilds died. He's stayed in EVE but then hopped from MMO to MMO... STO, Rift, you name it. Each one he plays a while, maybe even starts up a new chapter of his guild, then a few months later he is gone. Even in EVE he is not as active as he once was (from what I know).

 

This guy is just burned out. I don't think ANY of the MMOs out there can satisfy you when you are that burned out.

 

And I think a lot of people are like this. And I say this because I was like it a while back. When I realized TOR was going to come out in 2011, I made the conscious decision to completely stop playing MMORPGs (back in late 2010, when I quit COH for the final time). I did not want to be burned out. I wanted to be "fresh." So I played SP games on the Xbox of all things -- racing games, call of duty games, left4dead... and yeah some BW games like ME. I sometimes got a hankering for MMOs but I was strong, and I resisted the lure of the Dark Side.

 

And so when Early Access started and I logged into TOR for the first time, not only was it "Yay TOR!" and "Yay Star Wars!" It was also, "Ahhh.... MMOs... it's good to be home."

 

I may burn out on TOR too some day... but I think I've got a good long while in me before that happens. So it's all nice and fresh and new-seeming and not stale.

 

But if I had been playing MMOs right up until launch? Yeah... not just TOR, but any new MMO would almost have to start out seeming stale, because I am burnt.

 

Some folks just play these games so much they are fried -- and they don't even know it, like my friend of the 3 guilds. I tried to tell him he is burned out a few times but it took like a year before he finally listened.

 

I know, it's hard... you love the genre, etc. But you can burn out on ANYTHING... and especially when you put insane amounts of time into it, like the guy who has a /played of 26 days when the game has only been out for 37. I mean that is like an 80 hour a week job at that point. How do you not burn out?

 

So yeah.. burnout is contributing. But not just WOW burnout but MMO burnout. And I'd bet most of these folks will be unhappy no matter what, for that reason.

 

That doesn't mean that there are no issues with TOR... sure there are some bugs and some issues and it is not perfect. But those issues seem SO much worse when you're fried on the genre. Trust me. It happened to me in LOTRO... CO... and other games.

[Hahkil]

Yup.

 

People need to accept that innovation in MMO's is nearly dead (not to mention subjective).

 

From here until eternity, MMO's will consist of a whole bunch of copying, and a few twists along the way to make it unique.

 

Hai Guild Wars 2, just sayin'.

 

And as someone said, every game can be traced back to a copy of another game with a small change made to it, up until that "Bat and Ball" game.

[TheHeadCapper]

I've read alot of the gripes and complaints on these forums, and i've come to the conclusion that the level of intolerance for bugs and tech issues is way beyond anything i've seen in any other game. The first few month of wow's launch, we experienced up to 20+ days of server down time. During that time i didn't feel the hatred i feel in the swtor forums. Personally I blame the burned out wowers who built unrealistic expectations.

 

Thoughts?

 

People are happy in the game and mad on the forums. Welcome to every game since the internet was invented by Al Gore.

[TheHeadCapper]

Hai Guild Wars 2, just sayin'.

 

And as someone said, every game can be traced back to a copy of another game with a small change made to it, up until that "Bat and Ball" game.

 

Yup, it's amazing when you look at RPG's in general how so many of those systems where already in place in games like the original ultima and bards tale games. shooters have barely changed since the 80's and RTS's even less so with the exception of maybe total war.

[Noeren]

It's quite simple actualy. People just want to play fine game. Without bags, without lags, with lots of interesting content. After clean and awesome WoW, SWTOR just... failed. We all understand thing about release time and so on, but still EVERY ONE just want too play nice game. We dont wont to wait and suffer.

 

My whole guild left after last patch, and they draged me with them into WoW. I've never played it before. That was some fine feelings I assure you. In fact, I will return in swtor after 2 month and then... we'll see)

[GalacticKegger]

You forgot to mention how you then follow us because "no one is ever on" after they leave:cool:

Been here all along matey and will still be here after they're gone. Where they go is their business. I'll leave following to followers. Edited January 21, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[TonyACT]

Not sure where this downtime figure came from. Besides a very rare short outage the first month was almost downtime free on my server.

 

It came from the fact that on my WoW server I ended up getting a total of 1 free month over the first year because of the server outages. A lucky few servers were spared the outages many of us suffered.

 

I do agree with the WoW burnout suggestion. The problem I have is that I was sick of WoW, came here for a change, and found it far too similar to give me that 'new game' glow.

[TotalKitty]

It's a victim of a noob studio with no idea how to make a SP into an MMO. Not saying it's easy, but some decisions have just been bad. Plus it's a victim of being released in such a bare bones state/buggy to hell and back.

 

If it's a victim, so are we, and the murderer is Bioware!

 

 

The fact you used the word "noob", made me realize how pointless your post is.

 

 

I do believe this is a victim of a WoW burnout. Swtor has just been released, and yes you could say the devs could learn a thing or two from games like WoW, but then again - why copy another games mechanics? Wouldn't that pretty much just make it a clone?

Yes, yes it would, and I have a hard time imagining that it's the plan BioWare went with in the beginning.

 

Give the devs some times. Overall this game is actually very well produced. All those complaints does not belong here. Were we a year ahead and the game was running like it is now, then I could understand the complaints, but now is not the time.

[TonyACT]

The fact you used the word "noob", made me realize how pointless your post is.

 

 

I do believe this is a victim of a WoW burnout. Swtor has just been released, and yes you could say the devs could learn a thing or two from games like WoW, but then again - why copy another games mechanics? Wouldn't that pretty much just make it a clone?

Yes, yes it would, and I have a hard time imagining that it's the plan BioWare went with in the beginning.

 

Give the devs some times. Overall this game is actually very well produced. All those complaints does not belong here. Were we a year ahead and the game was running like it is now, then I could understand the complaints, but now is not the time.

 

I'm afraid that seems to be the plan they had. I saw a dev post where they said something like 'we planned a traditional MMO with a Star Wars skin'. Way to aim low.