Is act 2 of the inquisitor storyline a bad joke?

[Darth_Vicente]

Okay. Can someone explain the reason why the last boss of the Inqusitor storyline is fighting you? Because I just can't understand it - and this is a problem with the SI storyline, since Act 2 and Act 3 are all about defeating this individual.

 

He's trying to kill you because Zash was "Corrupt", and by extension, her teaching would be corrupt, and everyone she led would be corrupt. How she was corrupt is more difficult to discern.

[Weezyfb]

Act 2 for the sith warrior was great

[LX_Theo]

Act 2 for the Knight and Agent (two calsses I've played), have been very good in premise and at least good in execution. The Agent's execution was great, and the premise was also great.

[lokdron]

Only if Chris Avellone wrote the SI story he wrote kotor 2 and if you have the restoration patch the dark side exile can be a magnificent bastard in kotor 2 I persuaded a man to commit suicide because that was in his "best interest" if he cared about the others around him" I also manipulated my companions to fall to the dark side convinced a poor scavenger to run to his death to get a lightsaber part for free. Kriea really liked these decisions she tries to be grey but deep down she is still a sith lord at heart. Lets not forget manipulate a certain companion and then killing them off to weaken a certain sith lord hell she even praised you that you wear deception like a cloak just like your master.

 

Oh and I let the jedi masters live and by the end of the game I had dark side mastery proved how wrong the jedi are and my female exile is sitting in the middle of malachor rallying the sith I did not slaughter along with atton as my apprentice. (the rest of my companions are dead because kriea gave me the option to kill them because they where becoming a hinderance/chain and plus they are weak for allowing themselves to be captured. While atton defeated darth sion and escaped. Plus killing my companions made me stronger in the dark side storywise)

 

I am just wondering why they gave the SI story to someone no one has heard about and lets not forget writing a story where the character is meant to be manipulative master mind is hard. Giving a story like that to someone who is like a intern writer is NOT a good idea imo. I don't know what bioware was thinking shame that chris works for another company I honestly think he would write a great SI story.

[Karkais]

To be fair, it could be that..

 

 

If ANOTHER sith kills a sith, beside the apprentice. That sith must also kill all of their apprentices.

 

Sure but

 

 

What exactly had Thanaton to do with Zash's 'death'? Nothing whatsoever. It was all the player character..

 

 

Nope doesn't make any more sense than before.

 

He's trying to kill you because Zash was "Corrupt", and by extension, her teaching would be corrupt, and everyone she led would be corrupt. How she was corrupt is more difficult to discern.

 

What exactly was corrupt in Zash's work? Hell, in SW story Baras described how the one-time emperor sucked his advisors dry to get stronger, and that was ok, what Zash did was not? (Even if we eventually find some valid reason for Thanaton to wage war on player character, it doesnt change the fact that Thanaton never adequtely explained why he was doing it.)

 

 

ps. I have loved every class dialog in my SW story so far, but Im only lvl 15 though - at this point SI story was ok too.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Karkais

[Sevorex]

How a story is like is highly personal opinion... I've finished the consular story and liked it all the way through

[Xanthlor]

As to the SI story:

 

 

I always thought Than (he seems to know a lot)thought Vash had done the transfer at first then he went oh crap it didn't work for her this time and just decided you must die.

 

[acheros]

Sure but

 

 

What exactly had Thanaton to do with Zash's 'death'? Nothing whatsoever. It was all the player character..

 

 

Nope doesn't make any more sense than before.

 

 

 

What exactly was corrupt in Zash's work? Hell, in SW story Baras described how the one-time emperor sucked his advisors dry to get stronger, and that was ok, what Zash did was not? (Even if we eventually find some valid reason for Thanaton to wage war on player character, it doesnt change the fact that Thanaton never adequtely explained why he was doing it.)

 

 

ps. I have loved every class dialog in my SW story so far, but Im only lvl 15 though - at this point SI story was ok too.

 

Oh yea, I entirely forgot that.

 

He could just be insane. Or, more fitting for a sith...

He could fear your power, and look for a reason to kill you. Its been shown time and time again in this timeline the sith generally leave each other alone, so him killing you would be a no-no unless he had a reason(same reason YOU had to kill the one sith on dromund kaas) sith are far from being the most truthworthy people.

[Angedechu]

To be fair, you play as a Sith Sorcerer, aka Darth Sidious

 

So, well, you play someone characterized at having bad teeth, cackling, and loving to incinerate your foes.

[acheros]

To be fair, you play as a Sith Sorcerer, aka Darth Sidious

 

So, well, you play someone characterized at having bad teeth, cackling, and loving to incinerate your foes.

 

Uh, i play as an assassin...

[MustrumRidcully]

I wonder how people would change the storyline to make more sense?

 

I think one aspect could be to give the relationship to Thanatos more sense. Say, we find out he found a prophecy that he believes applies to him - and you are the person that will bring his downfall. So he tries everything to stop it.

 

Or maybe the Darth you kill so that Zash can replace him was more than just an ally - a dear friend, a son or something, and he seeks revenge. Zash escapes his wrath by simply failing her ritual, but you remain.

 

The Ghostbuster stuff - well, it doesn't have to be our favorite aspect, but I think it's overall okay. Maybe a change could be that these Ghosts have some kind of connection to Thanatos? Ancestors, or dead rivals?

[acheros]

I wonder how people would change the storyline to make more sense?

 

I think one aspect could be to give the relationship to Thanatos more sense. Say, we find out he found a prophecy that he believes applies to him - and you are the person that will bring his downfall. So he tries everything to stop it.

 

Or maybe the Darth you kill so that Zash can replace him was more than just an ally - a dear friend, a son or something, and he seeks revenge. Zash escapes his wrath by simply failing her ritual, but you remain.

 

The Ghostbuster stuff - well, it doesn't have to be our favorite aspect, but I think it's overall okay. Maybe a change could be that these Ghosts have some kind of connection to Thanatos? Ancestors, or dead rivals?

 

How about instead of stealing power from the ghosts..You have to find them, then do something FOR them, so that they further teach you. Aspects of the sith teachings that have long sense been forgotten, forbidden combat methods, ways to improve common sith abilities like force lightning.

 

All story wise, of course.

[Heimskringla]

I wonder how people would change the storyline to make more sense?

 

Both Thanaton and Zash really need to be developed a bit more. See my spoiler'd content for more.

 

 

 

We enter Act II with Thanaton telling us that Zash over-stepped her bounds by killing Darth Skotia. Apparently, despite the fact that the Dark Council promoted her to Darth, Thanaton alone believes that Zash has to be stopped and that (as tradition decrees) her power base must be destroyed in retribution for her actions.

 

However, Zash turned us in to a gopher during Act I, so we never really learn what she was up to. We don't get to learn what she was up to during the rest of the story either, not really. I would make being Egon a more minor part of Act II and shift the focus to figuring out what Zash was doing.

 

Thanaton needs to be better developed as a nemesis. You spend so much time playing Egon that you never really engage in "The Game of Sith" with Thanaton. The Inquisitor is supposed to be this dark, manipulative, cunning scholar of the Dark Side, but he never gets to play a chess match with Thanaton. I really didn't care about Thanaton at all, as a character. He was introduced and discarded too quickly. He didn't feel like my nemesis at all. During Act I, Kallig gave me enough forewarning that Zash was up to something that she began to feel like a nemesis.

 

 

Another qualm I have is that the Inquisitor character comes off like a thuggish brute, behaviour more appropriate for the Vader archetype than the Palpatine archetype. I would give the Inquisitor a bit of a personality overhaul with more of an emphasis on cunning and manipulation in lieu of the present "Grr, I don't understand! I'll just shock you if you don't get out the crayons and explain it to me like I'm dense!"

 

 

[Uruare]

The SI story makes perfect sense if you look at it through the eyes of a Twilight fan.

 

You go around being abused, kicked around, mocked and doing all this irrelevant nonsense (but there are ghosts! SPooooooOoOoOoOky ghosts, whoOoOoOoooO!) and there's this guy and he HATES YOU (ZOMG!) and then you're SICK (Z.O.M.F.G I NEED TO TWEET MY BFF JILL!!1!one!) and it's just ZOOOOOOOMGGGGGGGGGG!

 

 

Which is to say, I can see how it might appeal to a particularly shallow sort of tween that could totally relate to the SI as being like, ya know, THEM. If you're 13 and NOBODY UNDERSTANDS YOU and Thanaton is like your parents and ZZZZZOOOOOOOMGGGGGOGOGOGOGOG!

 

Yeah.

 

 

Just...yeah. Barely coherent at the best of times, and in the end...

 

 

...While Thanaton is dramatically CRAWLING with the strains of "Waaah they're making me kill mah Marty Stuuu-huuu-huuu" music going on, a dark council member kills Thanaton. Not you. After over 20 levels of being drug around with this guy wagging his butt in your face at every turn and never once getting to take a swing at him the whole way clear TO that ending.

 

It's like the story author had to be threatened with an axe to get them to write Thanaton's demise, and so they hated you, the player, for playing the class that made them kill their favoritest evilbad evar, and not even in the end do they let it be -you- that kills him.

 

 

In short, a bigger crock of storytelling failure I have not seen...in a long, long time.

 

Certainly not in a professional venue like this one anyway.

[Meharial]

In an attempt to have it make more sense, I kind of went with Thanaton being the victim of a self fulfilling prophecy. Zash's method of rising to power was daring in its audacity, everyone knows she killed Skotia, but they can't prove it. And she was rewarded by being made a Darth.

 

And then there is you, who started off as a force sensitive slave on Korriban but in a short time as quite a few significant achievments under your belt and far more powerful than is common. Zash was your master, you were complicit in her schemes by association even if Thanaton has no direct evidence for it. Zash killed her superior Skotia. You killed Zash, following in her footsteps. Thanaton and his position is next in line but as you don't have a convenient apprentice to betray you he decides to take matters into his own hands.

 

It's tradition to eliminate a threat to your power before it fully comes into its own.

 

However, because he decided to take a swing at you, he brought about what he feared.

 

That's how my SI's story plays out and I'm sticking to it!

[Stevefin]

The follwers you get in the SI are way more interesting than most of the story and in a way I find the only reason to push the story through.

 

act one was slow but at the end things started to pick up...only to be thrown off a cliff to 'eat ghosts for power'. Getting your ancestors lightsabre from the cheater with just a few choice words and your pure presence of fear was quiet an achievement and really did say how far you have gone since the slave days.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Stevefin

[Lexandar]

Nope doesn't make any more sense than before.

 

 

Thanaton, being the staunch traditionalist, couldn't act against Zash because there's no evidence that she killed Skotia. There is however ample evidence that you killed Zash so he wants to kill you.

 

Thanaton always striked me as a p*ssy little b*tch, which is part of the reason why Ravage couldn't stand him. If you only slightly deviate from the Sith View he gets irritable. Hell look at RP nazis in MMO, I'm sure they'd do far worse to you than Thanaton if they got the chance.

 

Killing an inconsequential lord who had broken the Sith rule is mandatory, as someone suggests. That should've been the end of that. However, a reason for his obsession was actually addressed by Darth Marr: how can a Darth utterly fail to kill a lowly Lord?

 

His life was basically forfeit the moment he failed the first time and that's basically what drives him. He gets more and more desperate as the story progresses which is why his actions become more and more irrational. Hell Baras was no different.

 

 

What exactly was corrupt in Zash's work? Hell, in SW story Baras described how the one-time emperor sucked his advisors dry to get stronger, and that was ok, what Zash did was not? (Even if we eventually find some valid reason for Thanaton to wage war on player character, it doesnt change the fact that Thanaton never adequtely explained why he was doing it.)

 

Yeah except the Emperor's the Emperor and Zash is a petty lord. Who knows maybe Thanaton disapproved of the Emperor's actions, assuming he knew about them. But most people wouldn't dare call their boss up on leaving the office at 16h30.

 

I imagine that Zash's work at preserving immortality and rummaging through tombs and rituals probably pissed him off to no end.

 

For the reason why he singlemindedly hunts you down, see above.

[mblizzard]

Trooper had a pretty solid story overall, though act 2 was the weakest of the 3 acts.

[Karkais]

I wonder how people would change the storyline to make more sense?

 

All right, firstly in my opinion Zash is more developed than thanaton and theres also some companion quests involving Zash, so lets concentrate on Thanaton.

 

Ill put in spoilers just in case:

 

 

 

I see two major problems with Thanaton:

 

1.) His motivation why he has to kill the player makes no sense, and is just hand-waved away in the story.

 

2.) We get no explanation why exactly is Thanaton so strong that the player has to go through all that trouble to collect ghosts and whatnot. I mean, if all dark council members are that strong, shouldnt the player worry about the other 11 too? Why is it all about Thanaton?

 

I could almost accept the ghostbusting stuff if its either thought of as simply a way to collect more personal power, instead of a silver bullet for killing thanaton, or simply something that Zash happened to know about as in any help is better than no help.

 

What we need are explanations, and it could be achieved like this:

have the player run into one of Thanatons former goons/apprentices somewhere, have a 'friendly chat' with him ( I always wanted to use that interrogation droid on something) and have him tell

- how that tradition stuff was just nonsense and Thanny was simply afraid of the player (Apprentice should be privy to some of THannys thoughts on the matter).

- Or that Zash did something nasty to Thanaton and he felt the need to get even by killing Zash's apprentices. That would make most sense imo.

 

There is still the issue 2 to which I have no solution..

 

 

Edited January 23, 2012 by Karkais

[Shimmerstrike]

Are you serious with this thread? Could you at least say "in my opinion", cause I think what you say is utter rubbish. What's wrong with altering force-ghost, how does that differ from lifting rocks with mental power and deflecting lazer with a lightsaber? That's simply a silly thing to say. You won't get six mass-effect quality storylines in one game. Of course, people say that storyline sucks too, and dragon age, and WoW etc. It's all about opinion.

[Lexandar]

1. The primary motivation stated by Thanaton is because the SI killed Zash. Which is illegal in the Empire (see Xalek in the Academy, the Korriban quests, the light side option to the Tagging quests on DK among many others). This is compounded by the fact that Zash openly advertised to everyone on DK that the SI murdering her with awesome powers in a vision - because she expected to be that SI.

 

2. We don't get an (ingame) explanation why the Emperor, the Dark Council or why Baras is so strong. We just have to assume they have an inherent power, as would befit the top echelon of magocracies. If anything your immunity to Thanaton is more adequately explained than most other powers: He doesn't understand your relationship with ghosts because Kallig/Ergast didn't give him the Prima strategy guide. As such he can't beat you but then neither can you him until you do the Fedexing.

 

Not all of the Dark Council actually like Thanaton - Ravage being the clear example. Thanaton comes off as a pompous dick which would rub most people the wrong way. Also, the Dark Council don't react to you because you bested Thanaton, its actually stated as the reason for your ascension. After all, why would you want a subpar Sith Lord on the Dark Council?

 

3. Your suggestions aren't really viable - they themselves don't have a context in which to make sense and would already spell out the obvious. Hell Thanaton's fear is already palpable by Corellia when he freaks out and runs away. What else do you want him to say?

 

Also Thanaton would've killed Zash if he could. He was basically looking for an excuse to do it but none came his way. This was stated before you walk into his trap.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Lexandar

[tausra]

I wonder how people would change the storyline to make more sense?

 

I would do the following:

We kill Zash, going from slave to full Sith Lord.

 

The Darths recognize the power of the SI, and the SI recognizes opportunity that is being presented. The entire second act is the SI playing the "Game", currying favor with the Council all while pitting them against each other. Helping you along the way are the spirits of Sith Lords, who use their vast experience to guide your strikes and moves.

 

Thanaton, the traditionalist, recognizes you carving a power base from the chaos and formally calls a Kaggath (by blowing up the Nar Shaddaa cult). The third Act should be exercising that power to strike at Thanaton and his underlings. In the end you face off with Thanaton after orchestrating a situation where he has no other option than to come directly for you. The player, who has no intention of fighting fair, embarrasses Thanaton in front of the Council before executing him.

[Uruare]

Are you serious with this thread? Could you at least say "in my opinion", cause I think what you say is utter rubbish. What's wrong with altering force-ghost, how does that differ from lifting rocks with mental power and deflecting lazer with a lightsaber? That's simply a silly thing to say. You won't get six mass-effect quality storylines in one game. Of course, people say that storyline sucks too, and dragon age, and WoW etc. It's all about opinion.

 

 

You can have this moldy corndog and a bowl of water for dinner, or this wonderful pizza and a soda of your choice, or a steak grilled to your liking and herbed butter on a lightly seasoned artisan roll with mashed potatos, or a savory vegetarian stirfry with a light late harvest wine and a robust dinner salad.

 

Chances are pretty good you're not gonna pick the moldy corndog and the bowl of water as your favorite on such a list. Factors of quality do not all hang on matters of opinion and preference.

 

The inquisitor storyline is badly executed and amateurish in its delivery. Whether you're cool with that or not, or like it or not, is a matter of opinion.

 

Whether it is a well told story in the fashion of widely agreed-upon benchmarks, contrasts and comparisons that can be made right in this very game with other class storylines?

 

That is not a matter of opinion. It is, instead, very similar in its nature of contrast to the food presented above.

 

There are right ways and terrible, horrible, no-good very bad ways to tell an interactive story, and similarly, to make a corndog. There are frightfully right and wrong ways to engage your audience, execute concepts and accentuate the core story direction...quite similarly to how there are such differentiations in so much as serving water with a corndog.

 

This story is the quality equivalent of a moldy corndog and a bowl of room-temperature water being foisted off on a player while, by contrast, other class storylines, in terms of quality, presentation, direction and choice-engagement of the player, are (so far for my experience) consistently better in the quality of being what they are and being told in a fashion that engages the player in ways that at least feel meaningful.

 

I'm not straw-manning here; it really is like a moldy corndog. It could be a wonderful corndog offered with some splendidly chilled citrus water. It could be a much higher quality of what it is...than what they gave us in this release version.

 

You can like it all you want. You're also perfectly free to, as a matter of opinion and preference, enjoy whatever you enjoy, and power to you if you enjoy the storytelling equivalent of a moldy corndog being on the same menu as so much good to great other stuff.

 

But the corndog will still be moldy, and nobody will be wrong to call shenanigans on the fact that the sith inquisitor storyline starts off doing a rather good job; Chapter 1 is quite good, and promises to get better!...and essentially lies to you in that seeming.

 

Then your choices evaporate and everything that you're presented with comes in the form of dictation that flies in the face of vital elements of player interactivity left, right and center.

 

This is not an interactive storyline past chapter 1. It's a story dictation; you will go here and you must do this and you're not even going to get meaningful choices on how you go about it let alone options between two paths to get to the same necessarily arbitrary goal.

 

There is one set of railroad tracks. Off you go then. And on the way, the story content will be delivered in such a manner as that you will be emotionally encouraged to divorce yourself from even the typically sought-after levels of emotional engagement authors and directors aspire to hook an audience with.

 

Why should I care? This question is vital; absolutely vital. Why should I care in this storyline about Thanaton at all? Because he's got nothing better to do with his life than obsess over petty, illogical malice towards my character based on handwaved and nebulous, poorly defined 'traditions'?

 

Ok, that's workable, there are plenty of Sith that are just plain stupid and petty that do stupid and petty things that make no sense just because they can. That could be an acceptable reason.

 

It could be developed on and actually fleshed out into something substantive; it is not.

 

You, in fact, spend the vast majority of chapters 2 and 3 being herded around by absolutely everybody, as your character is not allowed at any point to so much as be the source in dialogue of an idea for what they're going to do about their own problems.

 

Not once. I paid attention specifically for it; I wanted to find a point of redemption on this negligence. I was still looking when the final scenes unrolled. I'm still waiting on my inquisitor that is completely done with the present storyline.

 

Now, at the very, very end, a couple of choices are presented that no follow-up currently exists on. There might be something of relevance to those choices. Nothing preceeding indicates that I should think they will be, but outside that limiting context, acknowleding that people learn from mistakes and also tend to improve with practice encourages me to a reasonable acknowledgement of that those choices might someday become relevant.

 

Maybe something will come in the future as the tale continues; maybe Bioware will do itself and everybody a favor, replace the writer or writing team that gave birth to this loathsome embarassment of a supposedly interactive story and salvage it here to fore.

 

Totally possible.

 

But as it is, for what it is, right now, it is the moldy corndog on the menu. Even if you love corndogs and hate everything else for whatever reasons you fancy, this corndog is a pathetic representation of corndogs and whoever thought this was a good idea ought to be quietly put elsewhere doing something else, where they can do no further harm.

 

/rant

Edited January 23, 2012 by Uruare

[Lexandar]

Its funny you should mention that as I ended up being more interested in Thanaton's fate than my own inquisitor, who I wrote off as an idiot long ago. Thanaton's words, actions and tone gets more and more desperate in a more and more tragically way as he is screwed. He knows it and yet this wasn't entirely his fault.

 

Unlike, say, Baras who just turns on you for no discernible reason Thanaton executes you as everyone who kills a Sith, especially a higher Sith, are executed. This is referenced quite heavily in the story. He ****s that up, not because he's an idiot but because Kallig/Ergast's ghost gave you an unfair advantage whereas Baras ****s up because he's generally an idiot.

[Lauraliane]

Yep, pretty much the whole SI story is terrible.

 

Predictable, boring, doesn't make sense, makes you feel weak and dumb all along.

 

Act 2 is the worst since it basically serves no purpose, you do ALL of Act 2, only to end doing Nothing besides coming back to square 1 in a worst state and reminded again that you are dumb.