lollie Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Remove PvP flagging from AOE effects on PvE servers. /signed They need to make it so you have to actively flag yourself for any attack, buff, or heal to affect any flagged player. If you're unflagged, then attacks, buffs, and heals cannot affect a flagged player (friend or foe). Make actions depend on the caster, not on the receiver. Edited January 24, 2012 by lollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoverFist Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Well, for the most part I agree with you. It's not so simplistic, though, as saying "quitting in fear of the issue." It's more a matter of quitting because of the unpleasantness of having to constantly take measures to avoid being pvp flagged on a pve server. All the things people keep posting, be aware, don't use your aoes, turn off your companion's aoes, wait for potential griefers to leave the area, etc. That takes the enjoyment out of the game, even if you end up not getting griefed. I haven't been griefed yet but I've been very careful. I shouldn't have to be. I have, however, been involuntarily flagged by areas I've run into on my speeder & was too far in to get out in time by the time I saw the warning. I've also been flagged by running into an area and getting stunned by the high level npcs & killed before I could get back out. That wouldn't have been so bad if it weren't for the fact that I then had to sit in a cantina for 5 minutes. So I said scr** that & switched to an alt. The next day I logged back in to find that I'm still flagged. Sorry, no logging out, you have to sit out that 5 minutes with your thumb in your ***. And dont' even get me started on the pvp areas they conveniently place in your way for some quests. Sure they have some kind of covert way around it but it's so obscure that you have to be truly determined to go through the bother of trying to find it. So to say that someone is quitting for fear of getting griefed, which may or may not actually happen, is just not the whole story. It's the constant effort involved in trying to remain unflagged on a so-called "PVE" server. That's just not fun. A very valid point. The gank didn't freak me out as much as still having to clear the dungeon with invisible kids diving into every other fight to flag me. It really soured the rest of the night for me as I simply didn't have the choice to just relax and play. Edited January 24, 2012 by HanoverFist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabarok Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well, for the most part I agree with you. It's not so simplistic, though, as saying "quitting in fear of the issue." It's more a matter of quitting because of the unpleasantness of having to constantly take measures to avoid being pvp flagged on a pve server. All the things people keep posting, be aware, don't use your aoes, turn off your companion's aoes, wait for potential griefers to leave the area, etc. That takes the enjoyment out of the game, even if you end up not getting griefed. I haven't been griefed yet but I've been very careful. I shouldn't have to be. My view, don't go out of your way to avoid it. Play normally as if the PvPers weren't there, as one would expect to play on a PvE server. Just don't target the PvPer or go out of your way to "accidentally" hit him with an AoE. If you die, ticket for harassment, revive and continue. If it happens again, a 2nd ticket will make that griefer look really bad when BW finally gets around to responding. 3rd time, file a ticket about how intolerable the harassment is making gameplay and return to medbay. Who knows, you might get lucky and get a griefer banned before the aoe flag exploit gets fixed. "I was fighting against regular monsters when [player's name] ran up and killed me. I didn't turn on my PvP flag and I wasn't in a PvP zone." "After recently being unwillingly killed by [player's name], I revived and continued questing. I double checked that I wasn't pvp flagged. I got into a fight with regular enemies when [player's name] killed me for the 2nd time. How is this possible on a PvE server? I don't want to PvP" "I keep getting killed by [player's name]. This is the 3rd time while I've been questing. If I wanted to be killed by players, I would have joined a PvP server. This is making questing impossible. I have not turned on my PvP flag and I have not accepted any duels." I have, however, been involuntarily flagged by areas I've run into on my speeder & was too far in to get out in time by the time I saw the warning. I've also been flagged by running into an area and getting stunned by the high level npcs & killed before I could get back out. That wouldn't have been so bad if it weren't for the fact that I then had to sit in a cantina for 5 minutes. So I said scr** that & switched to an alt. The next day I logged back in to find that I'm still flagged. Sorry, no logging out, you have to sit out that 5 minutes with your thumb in your ***. And dont' even get me started on the pvp areas they conveniently place in your way for some quests. Sure they have some kind of covert way around it but it's so obscure that you have to be truly determined to go through the bother of trying to find it. So to say that someone is quitting for fear of getting griefed, which may or may not actually happen, is just not the whole story. It's the constant effort involved in trying to remain unflagged on a so-called "PVE" server. That's just not fun. The only time I encountered a PvP zone while questing to 50 was on a single planet, and the only thing sending me into the PvP zone was poor quest tracking. I think it was on Quesh. What I remember is that it's the planet with the underground teleportation taxi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrasroma Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 /signed BW, this is a potential gamebreaker for a lot of people on PvE servers. Please implement a fix to stop griefers for ruining other people's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katharis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This tactic is used for griefing more and more every day on PvE servers. I will link below several complaint threads. PvE players have no desire to PvP but are having it forced upon them by the more unscrupulous parts of the player base while pursuing their PvE story lines. Unwanted PVP flags during HOTH quests Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged? PVP flagged on a PVE server? Involuntarily flagged for PvP as a 32 by a 50 on a PvE server. Confused and Very Upset! As you can see left unattended this issue is escalating in severity and has already caused a few to in those threads to hit the unsubscribe button. Agreed. PvP flagging from AOE effects on PVE servers should never have been a concern for people who chose to play on a PVE server. If it's a bug, it should be fixed. If it's working as intended, it should be changed. Sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Going to throw my support in on this. If I'm not flagged I should not be able to effect someone who is, period. AoE's shouldn't do anything to the flagged character. Casting buffs, especially healing on a flagged character however should IMO flag me, otherwise it's too easy to exploit by healing someone, and the other side can't do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Going to throw my support in on this. If I'm not flagged I should not be able to effect someone who is, period. AoE's shouldn't do anything to the flagged character. Casting buffs, especially healing on a flagged character however should IMO flag me, otherwise it's too easy to exploit by healing someone, and the other side can't do anything about it. IMO the healing and buffing part should work like in rift. If i am not pvp flagged i can not heal or buff a flagged friendly. It sends you a message that pvp state incompatible with target. If its a group heal or group buf it simple does not land on flagged friendly targets. I am on a pve server because i do NOT want to pvp. Given the choice i would set myself to never pvp flag ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) My view, don't go out of your way to avoid it. Play normally as if the PvPers weren't there, as one would expect to play on a PvE server. Just don't target the PvPer or go out of your way to "accidentally" hit him with an AoE. If you die, ticket for harassment, revive and continue. If it happens again, a 2nd ticket will make that griefer look really bad when BW finally gets around to responding. 3rd time, file a ticket about how intolerable the harassment is making gameplay and return to medbay. Who knows, you might get lucky and get a griefer banned before the aoe flag exploit gets fixed. "I was fighting against regular monsters when [player's name] ran up and killed me. I didn't turn on my PvP flag and I wasn't in a PvP zone." "After recently being unwillingly killed by [player's name], I revived and continued questing. I double checked that I wasn't pvp flagged. I got into a fight with regular enemies when [player's name] killed me for the 2nd time. How is this possible on a PvE server? I don't want to PvP" "I keep getting killed by [player's name]. This is the 3rd time while I've been questing. If I wanted to be killed by players, I would have joined a PvP server. This is making questing impossible. I have not turned on my PvP flag and I have not accepted any duels." The only time I encountered a PvP zone while questing to 50 was on a single planet, and the only thing sending me into the PvP zone was poor quest tracking. I think it was on Quesh. What I remember is that it's the planet with the underground teleportation taxi. As a stop-gap until they fix it (if they ever fix it), ok I can see that. But as a permanent condition for the game? No thanks. I'll go play something else instead. Why should I pay to put myself through that? I have absolutely no masochistic tendencies what-so-ever. I was promised a pve server with pvp being strictly voluntary. That's what I expect to find. I see no reason why I should have to go through any extra measures to maintain a pve status on a pve server. Edited January 24, 2012 by VarnieTsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 /signed, and rated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frigidman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Anything that griefers are exploiting, I tend to agree needs to be adjusted. Before griefers got it up their festering poodoo holes to do this nonsense on PvE servers, it was actually a nice dynamic to allow players to engage in PvP while out in the contested wilds. Then enter all the high level stealth class griefers hiding next to mission npcs, waiting for some unsuspecting PvE'r to come along and open up on the npcs with an AOE. Now, its a nice dynamic that needs to go. Needs to be adjusted to prevent this stupidity. Sad to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sent another tweet to Reid. Maybe we'll get a response before the week's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoverFist Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Sent another tweet to Reid. Maybe we'll get a response before the week's up. We can hope any way. Edited January 24, 2012 by HanoverFist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochhi Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 so essentially if you wanted to kill someone that was pvp flagged, you would just continously use aoe abilities on them and they wouldn't be able to touch you? Puh-leeze! My AoEs shouldn't affect him one way or another. No harm, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketloader Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I agree remove flagging from aoe , i would even go so far unless you actually flag your self you cant become flagged for accidental attacks on a flagged person. Happened to me twice , once was a fair fight , even though unplanned ,both were same level, second time i was in a bunch of 6 mobs and aoe them when somebody 8 levels above me decided to stand in my aoe , was too late by the time i saw them. For flagged people on your side , I would just make it so you cant heal them. I rolled on a pve server so i wouldnt have to pvp unless i went into a pvp zone. When im out questing the last thing i want is pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEagle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If I wanted to PVP.. I would have joined a pvp server. I might..choose.. on occasion to join a warzone so I can die repeatedly..but that is my ..CHOICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoverFist Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Another day and a new hope for an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Another day and a new hope for an answer. Yup, here's hoping. C'mon Bioware. A simple "It's working as intended" or "We're looking at it" would suffice for now. At least then I'll know how to act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublehelix Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Rating thread as 5 stars to get more attention. Hopefully we will get an answer today:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwfive Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Agreed. I don't want to be flagged by other players if I don't want to be flagged. I don't want accidentally flag other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) All the threads on this have clearly had moderators moderating in them, so the mods know the issue and *should* have notified Reid by now. Reid himself has been tweeted multiple times by myself and others since the past weekend. If there's no response from Reid by Friday it means we are indeed being ignored, and those who do not like the current system should start looking for alternative games to spend their money on. Maybe that will start loosening some tongues and typing fingers around here so those left can have a response. Edited January 26, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyrprime Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Every game starts this way. I think it helps boost the pve server numbers initially. Eventually it gets changed after much forum whinage. History repeats itself again. Edited January 26, 2012 by Aethyrprime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoverFist Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Every game starts this way. I think it helps boost the pve server numbers initially. Eventually it gets changed after much forum whinage. History repeats itself again. Hmmm. No matter, I'm still whining for an answer here. Edited January 26, 2012 by HanoverFist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarnieTsk Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Every game starts this way. I think it helps boost the pve server numbers initially. Eventually it gets changed after much forum whinage. History repeats itself again. Well I'd call that pretty sad if it's the case that companies would do this intentionally. But, whatever, I don't really care how it comes about as long as it gets changed. Players should not have to make a continuous effort to remain unflagged on a pve server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharst Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 /signed. Need an option in preferences that keeps us from auto-flagging unless we specifically choose or enter a contested area specifically for PVP (Tatooine is the first). It needs to be thorough... ie I can't assist someone who is flagged even if they are in my group but neither can they assist me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGriffith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Personally I'd rather that any action taken by an unflagged player can't affect a flagged player, period. However, I could live with it if they did how you said, with healing & buffing because that requires a conscious act on an intended target. As it is right now, not only can a flagged player stand in your, or your companion's, AOE and get you flagged involuntarily, they can do it stealthed. It was even worse when the companions' AOEs kept toggling back on even after you turned them off. It was adding insult to injury by the devs. Now if they'd just fix this we'd be able to play in peace without wondering if it's safe to use an AOE. The direct target autoflag still makes it only slightly harder for griefer to abuse the system. They can run into your fight, trying to trick you into accidentally targeting them. They can tag an NPC and when you attack that npc you get flagged. The only garantueed solution is that if you have your autoflag disabled any action that would cause you to get flagged has no effect instead. You can not AoE them, you can not directly attack or buff or heal them. You can not affect the NPCs they are fighting. As I said before, it would be simpler to entirely remove the PvP flag from PvE servers, but considering there are players who enjoy to be able to optionally engage in PvP just not all the time, it would be unfair to them. Still, considering that there seems to be more PvP on PvE servers, perhaps it makes sense to remove the PvP flags from PvE servers and introduce them on the PvP servers? And I think the most appropriate punishment for this kind of griefing is not banning, not even perma-banning (though they certainly deserve that) but to immediately being relocated to the least populated PvP server. After all these players clearly want to PvP and that server needs more players ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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