Next in line to leave?

[Zhit]

Umm--might want to check your percentages. Less than 40% of the initial purchases are continuing with the first month. The huge drop off of subs is what lead to the Founders program and the downgrade in EA's stock outlook.

[Barathos]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

And I was just about to post something like this, thanks for beating me to it.

 

If the fanbois think that these people leaving will stop ALL AND EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT EVER ON THESE FORUMS, they're beyond all hope of common sense and logic.

[HanzoV]

OHH EMM GEE. If swtor isn't "hardcore" enough for you, then go play something that is.

 

Also, "blood on your hands" -- seriously? I've seen a lot of stupid analogies, but the ones involving "death" and "murder" are always the most idiotic -- It's an f'n game. No one/thing got murdered; no one/thing died.

[Iskareot]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

 

 

Again quit speaking for me. I do not know how or what statistical access you have to the TOR data base of customers but you just added me into your FAKE data.

 

Please do not do that again - also my entire 100 man guild as well. Ok? Thanks...

 

You need to back your numbers up if you are going to spew some or all that you say is FALSE.

[Mungadai]

98% of all statistics are made up. Unfortunately 74% of people will accept 86% of them as being fact. Only 3% of people know how many of the people will leave because its hard to tell when only 6% of the actual players use the forum. The in game population still has 93% of the number of players it did before with 96% of hardcores I know still around.

 

I award you +100 internets sir. That was full of win & candy.

[asbalana]

A friend of mine who is a dev for Blizzard has told me that one of the 'key mistakes' they made in the last release was making the content too hard and they are going back to WOTLK level difficulty for raids and instances.

 

Actually they made about six million mistakes in Cata and then treated a large part of their community with contempt when people complained. I vividly remember the screw up of the ret Pally class and Ghostcrawlers comments that they (the devs) did not like the most popular class at the end of Wrath because they felt that it did not do enough to seperate the majority of their customers (the bads) from the elites.

 

I think the WOW devs well needed an attitude adjustment and hope that the drop of around two million subs and still falling accomplished that. WOW was a great game and had a lot going for it pre Cata. It has a great combat system, smooth play, great flexibility in modification, and so on. Most of which is not attributable to the current crew of devs. I really like swtor and feel that if the ability and some other issues are worked out, it has a great future. I would like to see WOW come back because there is room for a number of good MMOs. It is in the hands of the devs to make it so.

[archifikoss]

Hardcore players are seriously doin' it wrong in this game. IMO... The game is to be played the same way one would savor an expensive single malt Scotch.

 

I'm garnering huge enjoyment out of taking my time. Taking in the sights, doing my quests as long as I feel like, doing my space missions, participating in general chat for a laugh - and generally playing in a laid back way, as a means of unwinding after work and running. In other words, playing completely casually and for fun rather than for the challenge.

 

If I went hardcore... I doubt I'd enjoy this game.

 

I don't mean this post as an insult to hardcore players... But I really feel that this is not primarily aimed at them.

[Phaedrynn]

The thing is modern mmo players are not just 'unskilled', they are mostly stupid.

 

I blame the fact that you can blunder your way to the level cap in modern mmos with out ever being forced to learn proper group dynamics.

 

It used to be you would assume someone at the level cap would have a basic understanding of how the game worked, i wouldn't call that skilled.

 

You could throw a random group together and it would be rare to find someone who was a moron.

 

But these days the challenge of an mmo seems more to be getting a group of people who have at least as many brain cells between them as they do levels.

 

Timing

Situational awareness

An intuitive 'feel' for agro or enemy AI

Knowing how to properly kite and use LoS

Understanding the other classess and their mechanics on a basic level

Understanding your own class and mechanics and your role in a group

Being able to adapt to a situation and fill the needs in a group with out having to be told

 

These are all what i call basic competency.

 

Absolutely! This all stems from the 'every class can solo' mentality. Support classes used to be support, they weren't soloing anything that wasn't grey to them. Then this whole little league 'everyone gets to play' mindset came about (thanks wow...m|n) and suddenly there was no need to group and people could be brain dead and still get to the level cap...

 

Give me a game where healers cant DPS, DPS can take many hits, and tanks still need a healer for any real survivability, then you will see people actually learning how their class works in group situations.

[Ruuprect]

Absolutely! This all stems from the 'every class can solo' mentality. Support classes used to be support, they weren't soloing anything that wasn't grey to them. Then this whole little league 'everyone gets to play' mindset came about (thanks wow...m|n) and suddenly there was no need to group and people could be brain dead and still get to the level cap...

 

Give me a game where healers cant DPS, DPS can take many hits, and tanks still need a healer for any real survivability, then you will see people actually learning how their class works in group situations.

 

That would be fun, you would have to group to compete. Sadly I think there would be a huge lack of healers and tanks making something like this impossible in todays market.

[fallenvirtues]

You have not completed all of wow's content, pre nerfed.

 

You did not kill C'thun, or pre nerfed Magtheridon. WoW at the very top is aimed at the elite players, you can say it isnt but this only tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Sure WoW nerfs content when new content is released, but thats not what you are saying..

 

Speak for yourself...We had pretty much everything cleared and world bosses by the time things got nerfed...

 

The only thing we never cleared before the next expansion came out was Sunwell

[fallenvirtues]

I do remember that pretty vividly to because we all worked so hard for our attunements and then after all that work getting through all the content, they nerfed everything and people that did not belong in these raids where their next to us....was pretty peeved honestly@!

[Barathos]

Absolutely! This all stems from the 'every class can solo' mentality. Support classes used to be support, they weren't soloing anything that wasn't grey to them. Then this whole little league 'everyone gets to play' mindset came about (thanks wow...m|n) and suddenly there was no need to group and people could be brain dead and still get to the level cap...

 

Give me a game where healers cant DPS, DPS can take many hits, and tanks still need a healer for any real survivability, then you will see people actually learning how their class works in group situations.

 

I played an enchanter in EQ, and while I agree with you to a point, there was a reason I switched to WoW and why EQ is dying.

 

Grouping was a lot of fun in EQ, you got to know people, but if you just want to log on for 30 minutes to lvl up some, forget it.

 

That's why WoW is such a success, imo.

[Kypp]

where do these people get their numbers? I mean do they just make stuff up?

[Dyraele]

Again then i call you a lier, mmo's at the very top are hard. The timing, refexes and co-ordination required are immense.

 

You can post a blanket statement like "all mmo's are easy" but then those in the know, know you to be full of it.

 

LOL. What are you, in your 40's, or maybe 50's like me, and you think you are in the 15-25% of top gamers that are in their teens/20's when the hard games require, and I quote:

 

"The timing, refexes and co-ordination required are immense."

 

Seems contradictory.

[DarrkLore]

Too many random %

 

Did you use a calculator or something ?

 

Im 99.9% sure you just made all that up

 

7 out of 10 statistics are made up on the spot.

[omearaee]

I compared pressing keys with putting one foot infront of the other.

 

I compared the endurance required to grind 18 hours a day 7 days a week nonstopped with running a marathon.

 

And while grinding, you also get to 'the zone', though i call it grindstate. Only happens several hours in, long past the casuals tolerance for grinding. Time stops meaning anything, your body no longer hurts, you enter a grind trance and feel the entire universe.

 

As someone who runs 30 to 40 miles a week, okay not a marathon runner....no. I think I know what your trying to say but it's a strange analogy due to the physical difficultly of running as compared to sitting at a keyboard.

[monjiay]

Well, it's nice to see that all the trolling and forum drama has stopped now that players who didn't subscribe have left.

 

Everything has calmed down and everyone is happy, just as predicted by all the fan boys.

Edited January 20, 2012 by monjiay

[Sithgrayjedi]

My cousin is 7 yrs old and she plays WoW. WoW makes more money than every MMO combined...again, my 7 yr old cousin plays WoW. Bioware keeping things simple (like WoW does) is not a bad idea.

 

I personally want complexity but I'm not arrogant enough to believe that if a game doesn't do what I want it will fail

 

My conclusion? Casuals make the world go round

 

I think WoW's best time was before the release of BC. This was a time when the highest level content ranged from relative easy raiding to extreme naxx stuff that only the super elite could do. This leads me to my point that a good mmo needs casual access as well as higher end more difficult content. To some this means "welfare epics." To the elite this means that the highest endd content needs to be both difficult and rewarding.

[MefuneAkira]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

99.990101% Sure you pulled these figures from your buttocks.

[Aisar]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

Where are you pulling these numbers from? Ridiculous..also your thread was kinda hard to follow.

[Xenthum]

You mean like that horrible failure of an MMO WoW does? Yeah, no possible way for an MMO to succeed like that

 

Yeah all 45 people (literally, in the whole world) that killed HDeathwing Spine before he had to be nerfed, right?

[Cassatella]

This game is made to cater to casuals. As one wise man put it: "Deal with it."

 

i dont see how it caters to casuals, when there's no lfg system, and even 4-man bosses have enrage timers and moves that can one-shot people.

 

i could maybe see making bosses like that in later tiers when people are fully decked out from the previous, but on the first one, where people are still using leveling gear to try and do hm fp's. and put that together with the still-in-place ability lag, keeping together a tight rotation is harder because you sometimes have to wait .5-1s extra for a spell to complete before you can start casting another.

 

casuals aren't going to take not being able to control how their character plays, and sit there and fight the interface while the fight the boss at the same time.

[Scan]

The challenge and balancing of end game will certainly get tougher as the game progresses. When WoW first launched every single person could clear their endgame raids that could find a group of 40 people. I think as you see this game mature and the team gets in develop new content mode you will see a tier of raiding (possibly) nightmare mode that caters to the best of the best. Very few people are getting through all the hardmode FP's right now and even fewer are raiding. Once all of the bugs are fleshed out I see end game identity becoming a major focus for Bioware, it already has all the elements there but it just needs refinement.

 

Again this I see people just plain talking bolox, I was at WoW launch, I remember guilds breaking up over MC bosses.

 

The game at the very top in WoW is hard, VERY hard and any guild server firsting content is skilled and dedicated.

 

If you say they are not then I and other raiders of any note look at your comments with derision, SW endgame is a real dodle, it was unbelieably easy, we did normal then hard in ONE evening, no guides or previous experience.

 

Working on NM modes next week, the game needs to be ramped up and fast.

 

Rewards of the highest calibre need to be rare and only availible to the very best players, by letting every tom, dick and harry get the best gear and most coverted items belittles and demeans the very meaning of rare and sort after.

 

If you dont see this then either you are too young or just plain naive.