Next in line to leave?

[Elysion]

Is this a sarcastic/ironic post or you REALLy saying that sitting in front of a PC, grinding is the same as running in reasonable time 42Km???

 

Also, while one would run a marathon for many reasons, why THE FRACK would one want to grind 18 hours a day????? Are you korean?

 

Why would someone want to run anywhere if they could drive instead?

[DarthKong]

84% of those that have read this thread now have a headache

[trublmaker]

I compared pressing keys with putting one foot infront of the other.

 

I compared the endurance required to grind 18 hours a day 7 days a week nonstopped with running a marathon.

 

And while grinding, you also get to 'the zone', though i call it grindstate. Only happens several hours in, long past the casuals tolerance for grinding. Time stops meaning anything, your body no longer hurts, you enter a grind trance and feel the entire universe.

Spending 18 hours-a-day playing video games is nothing to be proud of. The biggest thing a hardcore video gamer shows, is a lack of accomplishment when compared to a marathon runner.

[DjDangle]

This is mearly a warning from a player that goes back to the ZX81 level of gaming and played UO/EQ1.

 

Aiming the game at the below average skill/ability level will make this game the butt of the mmo world.

 

I've been playing computer games since owning an Atari 2600... 32 years of gaming doesn't make me any more uber... in fact im still crap at most games....

[Mashy]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

lol @ Self proclaimed elitist like it's something worth having. It's a game man, you either like it or you don't.

[Elysion]

Marathon runners have no skill. It is a great accomplishment to run a marathon, but the only thing it takes, is the time to devote to running. No, I have not run a marathon, just a half marathon (13.1 miles), know why, it's because I did not have the time to devote to running. It's running. Anyone can do it. Same with this game.

 

If monster hunter has taught me anything its that all skill is, is dedicated training.

 

Going from being killed by every little trash mob to defeating bosses that could one-shot me if i messed up and got hit in 30 minute fights with out taking a scratch is proof.

 

So don't act like skill isn't just another thing you grind up.

 

mmos model of gaining exp and improving skills is closer to reality than people think.

[Bafucin]

In mathematics, a function associates an argument or input quantity with exactly one value or output quantity. The value of a function f with argument x is denoted f(x), read "f of x". An example of such a value is f(x) = 2x, given by a function which associates with every number x the number twice as large: in the case x = 5, f(x) = 10.

[Scrobes]

Hey Scan, did you ever see this?

 

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/08/pandemonium-war/

[Murah]

Perhaps what's missing is elite content that takes a lot of time and dedication to conquer? I prefer a game design where 85% of the population won't see the highest end content.

[Ruuprect]

Nothing in an MMO is hard!! Say what you really mean. Only the people that can spend 10 hours a day in a game should get the best gear. I don't have a job so I should get the best gear.

 

Pushing buttons is not hard. Yes, there needs to be time sinks, but to claim "I'm in the top 85% is BS, you just have more time."

 

This is not true, time has a little to do with it but as far as raids go, you need a good amount of skill to complete raids in some mmo's. I have raided in PuG's and it shows the huge lack of skill and knowledge most people have. Skilled players can complete content without too much of a time sink, average players require much more time to complete raid content, if they can complete it at all.

 

This is why they nerf old content when new is release, so the semi-casual player may be able to complete it. If they don't nerf content or come out with buggy raids that cannot be completed by even the top 5%, people quit. Raids should be hard and only completeable by the top 5-10% at first then nerfed for the bads.

[Elysion]

This is not true, time has a little to do with it but as far as raids go, you need a good amount of skill to complete raids in some mmo's. I have raided in PuG's and it shows the huge lack of skill and knowledge most people have. Skilled players can complete content without too much of a time sink, average players require much more time to complete raid content, if they can complete it at all.

 

This is why they nerf old content when new is release, so the semi-casual player may be able to complete it. If they don't nerf content or come out with buggy raids that cannot be completed by even the top 5%, people quit. Raids should be hard and only completeable by the top 5-10% at first then nerfed for the bads.

 

The thing is modern mmo players are not just 'unskilled', they are mostly stupid.

 

I blame the fact that you can blunder your way to the level cap in modern mmos with out ever being forced to learn proper group dynamics.

 

It used to be you would assume someone at the level cap would have a basic understanding of how the game worked, i wouldn't call that skilled.

 

You could throw a random group together and it would be rare to find someone who was a moron.

 

But these days the challenge of an mmo seems more to be getting a group of people who have at least as many brain cells between them as they do levels.

 

Timing

Situational awareness

An intuitive 'feel' for agro or enemy AI

Knowing how to properly kite and use LoS

Understanding the other classess and their mechanics on a basic level

Understanding your own class and mechanics and your role in a group

Being able to adapt to a situation and fill the needs in a group with out having to be told

 

These are all what i call basic competency.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Elysion

[chton]

You have not completed all of wow's content, pre nerfed.

 

You did not kill C'thun, or pre nerfed Magtheridon. WoW at the very top is aimed at the elite players, you can say it isnt but this only tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Sure WoW nerfs content when new content is released, but thats not what you are saying..

 

So head back now and save all the angst. I never understand why these people leave WoW since it appears to be perfect in all aspects. Seriously, go back how can anything compete with it's model of perfection? Nothing will ever live up to it's uberness apparently I don't get why anyone will ever make a game to compete with it.

[DarthKong]

The thing is most of my friends in-game are not just 'unskilled', they are mostly stupid.

 

fixed that for you. you're welcome.

[Ruuprect]

The thing is modern mmo players are not just 'unskilled', they are mostly stupid.

 

I blame the fact that you can blunder your way to the level cap in modern mmos with out ever being forced to learn proper group dynamics.

 

It used to be you would assume someone at the level cap would have a basic understanding of how the game worked, i wouldn't call that skilled.

 

You could throw a random group together and it would be rare to find someone who was a moron.

 

But these days the challenge of an mmo seems more to be getting a group of people who have at least as many brain cells between them as they do levels.

 

Timing

Situational awareness

An intuitive 'feel' for agro or enemy AI

Knowing how to properly kite and use LoS

Understanding the other classess and their mechanics on a basic level

Understanding your own class and mechanics and your role in a group

Being able to adapt to a situation and fill the needs in a group with out having to be told

 

These are all what i call basic competency.

 

Yes ^^This^^

 

Well said.

[Urko]

I am seeing EXACTLY what happened with Star Trek Online (im PRAYING Bioware can not let it go like that).

 

Even though STO was mega laggy and bugged big time, plus a bad gameplay in its own right, the way the forums went are exactly that and its now F2P after 2 years.

 

I was in that beta and for 3 months after launch after which i left, because they didnt try to fix or add much at all that people were posting about.

I feel it IS different here as BW are listening and implementing stuff (lots should have been there at launch, but thats old news)

 

I looked in on their forums yesterday and players that have been there all the time are still saying some of the stuff they asked for still hasnt been changed (why they stayed )

Edited January 20, 2012 by Urko

[borednumb]

So most of the top 5% of the playerbase and some haters have moved on.

 

The high achievers and "other game" fans have not resubbed.

 

What we have now is the 90-95% at the top of the tree, (raiding, pvping etc)

 

How long before this 90-95% group of players begin to post the same things? I feel the game is aimed at the 40-45% player mark. They should raise the difficulty level and final endgame achievements to the 80%+ mark.

 

So only the top 20% get the very best stuff, the best titles, the best rewards. If not then you will slowly see the high end players whittle away. Nothing cheapens a game more than welfare loot, and welfare titles etc. (When you can aquire something so easily it loses all its luster)

 

You will still see trolling and hating posts until you hit that 50%ish mark and then we will only see fawning and bum kissing posts. By then ofc it will be too late and the game will either be F2P or dead in the virtual water.

 

I place myself roughly in the 75-85% area, i feel i owe to the SW IP to give them maybe 2-3 months to get their shizz in order.

 

However, not listening to the hardcore has already had a toll, i just hope BW takes heed.

 

Hmm, I find this hard to believe... you think making the best loot, titles and perks available to only 20% of the gaming community a winning strategy? Simple econ lesson the broader your consumer base the bigger your potential profit....

 

Your post is nonsense the majority of players in any MMO are casuals you keep them happy the game will do well the hardcores have always been fickle and their the biggest pain the ***** because they will chew through your content and then rant and rave when they beat the content a few weeks after it's released.

 

I played EQ hardcore back in the day raiding every day and actually competing for spawns against other guilds because there was no instanced content those were fun days but in a game where content is instanced for each guild being a top end raider now a days isn't hardcore at all but that's just my opinion...personally I rather be a casual at this late date in my gaming career.

[trublmaker]

Hmm, I find this hard to believe... you think making the best loot, titles and perks available to only 20% of the gaming community a winning strategy? Simple econ lesson the broader your consumer base the bigger your potential profit....

 

Your post is nonsense the majority of players in any MMO are casuals you keep them happy the game will do well the hardcores have always been fickle and their the biggest pain the ***** because they will chew through your content and then rant and rave when they beat the content a few weeks after it's released.

 

I played EQ hardcore back in the day raiding every day and actually competing for spawns against other guilds because there was no instanced content those were fun days but in a game where content is instanced for each guild being a top end raider now a days isn't hardcore at all but that's just my opinion...personally I rather be a casual at this late date in my gaming career.

 

100% Nails it! I strongly agree.

 

A casual $15 a month = Hardcore $15 a month. And...The casual player is far lower maintenance.

Edited January 20, 2012 by trublmaker

[sosolidshoe]

ITT: People who think WoW is a hardcore game.

 

Also ITT: People who think being "hardcore" has some inherent value.

 

Crikey I hate this sort of rubbish - comparing grinding to running a marathon? I'm sorry, but LOLWUT <freakypear>, seriously? Engaging in one of the most grueling physical experiences known to mankind is not the same as passing out because you ran out of cheetos and were too stupefied from not sleeping in days to get off your arse and get some more.

 

Also, I call bull on the OP's "experience" as a "veteran" gamer - I know people who owned ZX-Spectrums; they're balding, middle-aged, they drive people carriers, and they have multiple kids. They don't spend their time on online forums casting about grandiose proclamations about their own gaming prowess; they're too busy playing games, parenting, or drinking heavily to drown out the nagging voice in the back of their mind that's berating them for being stupid enough to have become a parent

[mangarrage]

This is mearly a warning from a player that goes back to the ZX81 level of gaming and played UO/EQ1.

 

Aiming the game at the below average skill/ability level will make this game the butt of the mmo world.

 

You do realize that the most successful mmo of all time caters to the below average/ability level. And they do so more then any other game that was ever created

 

Gmaes these days do not relate to people like us who played uo, eq, ac, daoc, they cater to the people who played wow, rift, and easy ftp games

[Supersomething]

You have not completed all of wow's content, pre nerfed.

 

You did not kill C'thun, or pre nerfed Magtheridon. WoW at the very top is aimed at the elite players, you can say it isnt but this only tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Sure WoW nerfs content when new content is released, but thats not what you are saying..

 

That was a heck of a long time ago there buddy. Their content nowadays usually consists of contrived mechanics that usually amount to one hit instant gibb. There is a difference between content that is well designed to be challenging, and content that "appears" challenging. Mags, and fights like Yogg +1 or 0 light were well designed for challenge, the same cannot be said for Cata however.

 

Also.... take a look at LFR and Pandaria and tell me that game isn't going more towards their casual demographic. They have heroic modes sure but the majority of their content is NOT aimed at elite players.

[CTIAM]

Face it TOR is a stinker, probably huge server merges coming soon ala Warhammer online lol. That's not going to be good since the servers are split up into shards (worse mistake they made with the design of this game) lol. PVP is a joke, game engine is terrible and only works on one cpu core lol its 2012 Bioware ***? Anyway $60 down the drain for me ah well whatever I moved on allready. Bioware is good at one thing though pushing people back to WOW where is where I went to and having fun again in Azeroth thanks guys for encouranging me back to WOW. Oh and Guild Wars 2 is the bomb diggidy doo, cannot wait.

[Tarka]

This game is made to cater to casuals. As one wise man put it: "Deal with it."

 

Prior to launch the devs actually said that the "MMO mindset" is a large core part of their intended audience. Unfortunately, it looks like things may not have turned out that way just yet.

[gumnutza]

Being elite at a sport is pretty cool.

 

Being elite at playing a musical instrument is pretty cool.

 

Being elite in a profession like an engineer or doctor is pretty cool.

 

Being an elite MMO gamer is pretty lame.

[ctacconi]

You have not completed all of wow's content, pre nerfed.

 

You did not kill C'thun, or pre nerfed Magtheridon. WoW at the very top is aimed at the elite players, you can say it isnt but this only tells me you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Sure WoW nerfs content when new content is released, but thats not what you are saying..

 

i have, figures i even killed cthun without the retarded mod that blip when u stand too near to another person, man we are so good we downed it manually moving a raid of 40 ppl? can u believe this?

 

Ur point is weak, wow content at that time was aimed at nerd ppls who con log and play 12 hours a day, abusing 300 mod for: easy healing, easy placement, Warnings to the entire raid that the boss gonna cast this and that so get ready to interrupt(if possible) etc etc.

 

Ive hate ctun and Brutallus pre nerfs, the game is retarded a lot.

 

ur point is weak and stop with the elitist attitude, thank u mr pro.

[bhillegass]

Unfortunately, games are not built for the veterans anymore. Nothing wrong with the casual today, but our days of grinding weeks on end to gain a level are over . No game today takes a lot of skill, even the highly successful ones.