People doing this should be banned on sight

[EternalFinality]

The purpose of Ilum is to farm valor. That is why they put it into the game.

 

This is just doing it faster.

[Organikal]

Because the system overall awards powerlevelers with a big statistical advantage. The system is designed to force you to do this sort of non-sense.

 

My first post ever on the forums (2009) when I registered was pvp gear should be equal because of what it creates in-game. I got flamed for it and called all sorts of names mainly insulting my gaming skills because I didn't want to powerlevel for elite status.

 

Now the community is outraged over the entire pvp gear issue. Essentially, this is about pvp gear, its statistical edge and how easy/hard it is to obtain.

 

Oh and fun factor, which is like 3rd on the list of everyone.

 

The point is pvp gear should be easy to obtain, use. If its going to provide an edge it should be a very little mathmatical edge to players and I assume very challenging to obtain. Thus make going for it functionally not necessary to enjoy PvP.

 

Or you can have this model. A farming, loot camping, spawn killing, kill-trading, whore yourselve out for valor game.

 

I know its more fun for me.

 

It is completely obvious to anyone whose done any pvping in mmo's this is what happens. Its why the guy incharge of the pvp needs to be demoted. This sort of thing was going to occur given the system.

 

^This... because we all don't have 8 hours a day to play... yet that doesn't mean those losers are better yet with the current gear limitations to the 15-20 hour per week player it will take a month if not more to achieve the same gear level thus gimping them vs the basement losers

[Dravinian]

DAER BIOWEAR

 

PLZ CUNTROL US FROM XPLOITIN UR GAME. WE R TOO STOOPID OT JUS... U KNO... NOT DO THIS.

 

THANX

 

--FORMER WOW PLAYER.

 

/backtonormal.

 

Seriously, you idiots are part of the problem. Just don't *********** farm valor. What's the point? does it make your epeen swell and throb?

 

I wrote a reply to this, then I realised the poster wouldn't understand it anyway.

[Zaletzu]

DAER BIOWEAR

 

PLZ CUNTROL US FROM XPLOITIN UR GAME. WE R TOO STOOPID OT JUS... U KNO... NOT DO THIS.

 

THANX

 

--FORMER WOW PLAYER.

 

/backtonormal.

 

Seriously, you idiots are part of the problem. Just don't *********** farm valor. What's the point? does it make your epeen swell and throb?

 

It gets them cooler, stronger armor and allows them to get to the real fun (Literally everything else in the entire game) faster.

[Suuke]

So they are farming valor in Ilum to get gear for warzones?

 

lololololololol

 

Whatever server that is, sucks to be you if you rolled a toon on it.

[big_aug]

I commend them for their efficiency.

[Shazbawt]

I've heard stories of this cropping up on a significant number of servers. People have rolled characters on my server and sent me tells, asking questions, trolling, and the like. A proper solution to this problem requires significant dev work and planning, not something that can really be fixed with a hotfix overnight.

 

If you have that much of a problem with it, go stop it on your own server by attacking the opposite faction as you would normally do. Calling for bans because I reported it...*shrug*

 

Do you honestly think that if I sent an email to Customer Support that it wouldn't fall through the cracks during initial launch month?

[MagikxMan]

You're missing the main point. It's right at the beginning of my post; the only point you didn't respond to. It's the thought process.

 

The examples were just that. Examples. They were meant to reflect the mindset, not be mirror situations.

 

Now I agree with you about human nature, etc. People will naturally take the path of least resistance. But that doesn't obsolve them of the responsibilities making that decision entails. There is always a choice to do it a different way.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not it was stupid of me(BW) to leave my keys(bugs) in my car(game). You(general you) still made the decision to take advantage(exploit) of it. Could I have take better precautions? Most definitely. Though in the end it only slows down the people who want to find them. Even the most cautious people make mistakes and there are always those people with that mindset who will take advantage.

 

Is it not BW's goal to make money as well? I know it is grossly over exaggerated on these forums, but people are cancelling subs over this. While I may be directly stealing from Wal-Mart the people who are exploiting are cause BW to lose money as well. And worse, as this spreads through word-of-mouth people that were thinking about picking up the game won't now causing even more potential profit to be lost.

 

Wal-Mart is estimated to lose about 3 billion dollars to theft per year. While that's less than 1% of the total sales it's still a huge amount of money. So while their security is effective I wouldn't say it still has it's faults. There is only so much you can do without going completely Gestapo. See: putting a GM in ilum to one shot anyone they think might be/have been participating in things like this.

 

My argument was never that they should leave bugs in game, exploitable or otherwise. In fact I was never even arguing that any action actually be taken against people that participate in these kinds of activities. I simply said if you choose to you have to accept the consequences.

 

Business sense has nothing to do with it. But for the record, accepting responsibility for your actions is very good business sense. Why do you think there is so much outcry for BW to just admit that they screwed up? Because it would pacify people; it would make them happy to know that BW understands their frustration and are doing something about it. And that's not even counting the whole word-of-mouth fiasco this mess could represent for them.

 

I don't actually care one way or the other what happens to people that did/are doing this. See: main point. I don't even care if BW does nothing about it and leaves the ability to do it in game. All this does is give gear to poor players. In any given MMO skill is the determining factor in an on level PvP match up. Only if the difference between gear is so extreme that you stand no chance of survival will it really make a difference and others have already pointed out the difference between BM and champ gear is small.

[manlytears]

I get banned and warned over and over because I tell trolls in Warzone to leave but people like this don't get banned?

 

Not resubbing next month.

[Theballzz]

200 valor x 30 = 6k valors (assuming you have 30 toons)

 

 

6k valors x rotation of about 10 min......

 

 

3600 valor per hour.

 

 

 

warzone win average 6 medals.... 1100 valors.

average warzone 15 min

 

15 x 4 = 60 minutes.

 

 

4400 valors per hour

[EternalFinality]

200 valor x 30 = 6k valors (assuming you have 30 toons)

 

 

6k valors x rotation of about 10 min......

 

 

3600 valor per hour.

 

 

 

warzone win average 6 medals.... 1100 valors.

average warzone 15 min

 

15 x 4 = 60 minutes.

 

 

4400 valors per hour

 

Might want to check your math.

[Shazbawt]

To correct your assumptions

 

180 Bonus Valor +20 - per Kill

x

30 Republic

x

(60/4) Every 4 Minutes =15

=

90,000 Valor Every Hour

[Chaosmagistrate]

200 valor x 30 = 6k valors (assuming you have 30 toons)

 

 

6k valors x rotation of about 10 min......

 

 

3600 valor per hour.

 

 

 

warzone win average 6 medals.... 1100 valors.

average warzone 15 min

 

15 x 4 = 60 minutes.

 

 

4400 valors per hour

 

Holy crap, I just spit my coffee out. I am sure my IQ just went from 126 to 86.

[Theballzz]

Holy crap, I just spit my coffee out. I am sure my IQ just went from 126 to 86.

 

I missed a zero meant to say 36k not 3600 lol

[Chaosmagistrate]

I missed a zero meant to say 36k not 3600 lol

 

Ok, that's cool.

 

Your post was very neutral, so I couldn't tell if you were trying say that the method described by the video was better or warzones were better.

[Zaletzu]

You're missing the main point. It's right at the beginning of my post; the only point you didn't respond to. It's the thought process.

 

My bad- I thought of that as more of an intro than an actual point. I would go back and edit my post but I have a feeling that's going to be the main topic of this post... Yes, I do these blind. Makes 'em more fun.

 

The examples were just that. Examples. They were meant to reflect the mindset, not be mirror situations.

 

Mirror situations are so much better when providing analogies, though.

 

Now I agree with you about human nature, etc. People will naturally take the path of least resistance. But that doesn't obsolve them of the responsibilities making that decision entails. There is always a choice to do it a different way.

 

But why make the choice to do it the easier way when punishment is practically nonexistent (7 day ban for saving myself several months of pointless grinding? You have yourself a deal!) and it benefits you so much? People need to be controlled, and possible repercussions or preventative measures are the best way to do it. When waiting in long lines, say at the movies or an amusement park, you don't push past everyone and get in front of the line. Why not? Probably not because you care about the other people waiting longer than you. More than likely it's because you'll have dozens and dozens of people yelling at you and wanting to fight you. Or because they have workers there ensuring you can't do that. Or both.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not it was stupid of me(BW) to leave my keys(bugs) in my car(game). You(general you) still made the decision to take advantage(exploit) of it. Could I have take better precautions? Most definitely. Though in the end it only slows down the people who want to find them. Even the most cautious people make mistakes and there are always those people with that mindset who will take advantage.

 

But the problem isn't a bug, is it? A bug in the game is Bounty Hunters glitching all over the place after killing something with Unload (I discovered this in early-mid November, and to this day it remains unfixed, btw). trading kills is just generally poor game design. They're technically not exploiting ANYTHING. You get points by killing other players. They're killing other players, aren't they? It's only thought of as an exploit because that isn't the way people want them to do it.

 

Is it not BW's goal to make money as well? I know it is grossly over exaggerated on these forums, but people are cancelling subs over this. While I may be directly stealing from Wal-Mart the people who are exploiting are cause BW to lose money as well. And worse, as this spreads through word-of-mouth people that were thinking about picking up the game won't now causing even more potential profit to be lost.

 

People are cancelling their subs? Is it because of the "exploiters" or because Bioware made it so easy to "exploit"? There are two sides to the coin, and the body ("exploiters") always follows the head (Game mechanics).

 

Wal-Mart is estimated to lose about 3 billion dollars to theft per year. While that's less than 1% of the total sales it's still a huge amount of money. So while their security is effective I wouldn't say it still has it's faults. There is only so much you can do without going completely Gestapo. See: putting a GM in ilum to one shot anyone they think might be/have been participating in things like this.

 

And Wal-Mart can be credited with keeping their losses so low. If this was such a small percentage of "exploiters" now there would be no problem. I went to Illum on Ven Zhallow and saw it EVERYWHERE. And I agree with you on having a limit. Putting a GM to kill any offenders is taking it too far. They could just fix Illum. Or hire some game designers who know what an MMO plays like. Something like this honestly should have been anticipated just because every single other MMO that requires you to compete with other players for something you REALLY want, whether it be items, valor, experience, gold, or even the cake turns into a massive cooperative effort from both teams so BOTH can benefit. It's like the Bioware devs have never played an MMO before.

 

My argument was never that they should leave bugs in game, exploitable or otherwise. In fact I was never even arguing that any action actually be taken against people that participate in these kinds of activities. I simply said if you choose to you have to accept the consequences.

 

I'm not saying "exploiters" don't have to face the consequences. I'm saying it's in everyone's best interest for them not to, and for the people who make the game to actually fix it.

 

Business sense has nothing to do with it. But for the record, accepting responsibility for your actions is very good business sense. Why do you think there is so much outcry for BW to just admit that they screwed up? Because it would pacify people; it would make them happy to know that BW understands their frustration and are doing something about it. And that's not even counting the whole word-of-mouth fiasco this mess could represent for them.

 

Again, it isn't about accepting responsibility. It simply would be plain stupid to banish anyone and everyone who trades kills, and instead the inner problem lies in that Bioware should do something to make the game work as intended. That's what I've been saying this entire time, but it's been falling on deaf ears.

 

I don't actually care one way or the other what happens to people that did/are doing this. See: main point. I don't even care if BW does nothing about it and leaves the ability to do it in game. All this does is give gear to poor players. In any given MMO skill is the determining factor in an on level PvP match up. Only if the difference between gear is so extreme that you stand no chance of survival will it really make a difference and others have already pointed out the difference between BM and champ gear is small.

 

Illum PvP doesn't build skill. Actually competing in the Warzones do. As I explained before, Illum is a complete joke because of the incredibly imbalanced factions. If you're an Imp the only skill you can gain from Illum is ganking every Rep you see. If you're a Rep I suppose you could get good at fighting off 8-11 Imps at once, but I don't like your chances... I know people who do this who actually dominate PvP, because they've been doing it since a low level and have experience- something that Illum never built and honestly could never hope to, either.

 

 

I feel like I should put something here, so here it is.

[Theballzz]

Ok, that's cool.

 

Your post was very neutral, so I couldn't tell if you were trying say that the method described by the video was better or warzones were better.

 

 

 

Yeah i was working and posting. lol Its pretty unfair to say the least.. I know i personally sat around for a number of days pvping all day.. Im not gonna cry over it though. I just wanted to throw out some average numbers here so people understand the gravity of the gains. They arent subtle or small gains..

[MagikxMan]

I feel like I should put something here, so here it is.

 

I think we agree on a fundamental level and are mostly arguing semantics at this point. I also get the feeling you like playing devil's advocate.

 

Should it be fixed? Yes, obviously. But if it was an easy problem to fix every mmo in recent history with pvp benefits wouldn't have had the same problem.

 

I think it's lame personally, and basically the same thing as killing yourself over and over on two accounts.

 

But if BW decides that people doing this is "unintended game play" (my choice of the word bug was poor) they can ban them for it. Will they? Not likely as the outcry from the rest of the players isn't nearly large enough. But they could.

[WarWidowX]

 

Its in almost every MMO that has open world pvp with rewards.. In War, DAOC, and Aion people were severely punished for it in Aion there was a lot of QQ over people receiving perma Bans for it.. TOR should be no different.

 

Punish them and make an example.

 

That is ridiculous!

[Theballzz]

Theres no comparison between aion and tor.

 

 

Aion you took points from your enemies.... in tor... theres only gain.

[kuan]

Well guys I think u are focusing ur anger to the wrong direction atm ,ok BW made some mistakes but they try to fix them (at least the most).

But what I saw at the op wasn't the fault of the devs it was a clearly abuse from players.ppl that love pvp would never do such a lame**** like this and tbh this can happen anywhere and in all games if stupid ppl want to abuse smith !So maybe focus on those (Iam pretty sure pve guilds)instead blaming BW for everything it's getting boring and the real issues losing their weight!

[xtriadx]

You do realize the objective is to try to be able to compete in the MMO market, right? Leaving simple exploits lying around and simply banning anyone who does it (You have to be max level to do it, too, so chances of someone quitting over that are exponentially higher) isn't going to gain them any subs, that's for sure...

 

Also, deleting every character in a guild? Because a few people from it were exploiting? Really? Really?

 

If you people were running this game it'd be dead before it's first anniversary.

 

Yes consequences for actions should be applied. They should be harsh as well.

 

What you advocate is *********** over the majority of the playerbase to retain a small percentage...a small percentage that is the least retained by any MMO.... Your attempt to advocate that this crowd is SO important to this games financial success ...or any MMO's for that matter..is absurd.

[lethal_ghost]

need to be banned simple or game is a complete farce

[KabbaSamura]

Theres no comparison between aion and tor.

 

 

Aion you took points from your enemies.... in tor... theres only gain.

 

this.

[Newsinz]

lol ***? thats nuts. Yea this deserves a ban.